Let me get this fucking straight....

[Aviation Pro]

...the fucking Speaker of the House, who may or may not know the full story behind the water torture, is receiving more 'press' play and attention than the motherfuckers who authorized the water torture?

Do I have that about right?

I fucking thought so.

[Optical.Catalyst]

1. The Republicans trashed the country for eight years while Bush is in office

Now we hold majorities in the House, the Senate, and we hold the Executive Branch. It is clear who the Republicans are and how they operate.

The Republicans in Congress need to be crushed and locked out of all legislation. There is no compromise with a repuke, they will use any opening they get to wound us. Our only option to save this country is expedite the demise of the Republican Party.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

59. Watch out for the MEDIA... they hate democracy and only want MONEY

They are alL PROPAGANDISTS

[LaurenG]

2. Yep - we are led around by our nose rings by the MSM

and too many people just follow along for the adventure.

[Mind_your_head]

5. Yep - and too many "young people" don't know anything different, so they 'go along'

Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. We need to discredit the MSM and move everyone to get their news from BLOGS nt

[malaise]

3. Oh yes

And CSpin is following the talking points big time.

[goclark]

44. Cspin is full speed ahead

While Cheney keeps his hands clean they chew up Democrats and we allow it to happen. In fact, we contribute to the chewing.

Republicants never,never chew up their own.

I will not say anything bad about Nancy P. and Diane F. or any other Democrat for that matter.

I don't have to say anything negative about our Party members because the MSM is going negative on US.

Watch, tomorrow they will have pictures of NP water boarding five parishioners at the same time and DU will be joining in the chorus.
They will also find 3/5 turncoats to express their displeasure with our party members.

Not me.

[WeDidIt]

4. Sympathy for Pelosi has been taken off the table n/t

[tomp]

29. beautiful! for the good of the nation. nt

[me b zola]

38. But the torture issue isn't about Nancy, it isn't about whether we support her or not

As long as the focus is on Nancy, NO ONE will ever be held accountable for the torture that was ordered from the bush* White House.

[MrModerate]

6. Unfortunately, the speaker of the house is a flaming hypocrite . . .

Which makes the Democratic party vulnerable.

Is it fair? Of course not. Are you surprised that the 'Licans have seen an opening and are taking it? Their objective is clear: fan the flames of Pelosi's hypocrisy into a full-blown cloud of disinformation. Then if anyone tries to prosecute the torturers, they can weep and wail "but everyone is guilty -- so no one is."

Lest we forget, the dems in Congress were deeply craven and dishonest during most of the Bush years, getting their courage back only as the American people became so disgusted that they began turning 'Licans out of office.

I'm not sure what an effective response to this might be -- just about any dem that went along to get along 2001-2006 is tainted as a Bush collaborator.

[Aviation Pro]

7. Let's start by dispensing with the fucking Republicant word play...

...and call it what it is:

Enhanced Interrogation Techinques = Torture
Waterboarding = Water Torture
Sleep Deprivation = Sleep Torture
Stress Positions = Stress Torture

And let's loudly fucking remind people who authorized the torture and why it was put in fucking place: to elicit and coerce a signed fucking statement from the victims to fucking establish a non-existent fucking link between al-Qaeda and Iraq.

[MrModerate]

9. While dem leaders stood silent, or worse, cheered the march to war . . . n/t

[Aviation Pro]

10. Based on faulty, cherry-picked data and intelligence....

...yes, clear thinkers saw through the bullshit, but they were in the minority. And as already expressed on numerous posts, who the fuck were the fucking leaders of the Democrats going to tell and who the fuck authorized the torture.

Let's keep our eyes on the real criminals.

[MrModerate]

12. Here's the problem: contempt, which leaders like Pelosi (and others)

earned in spades, is very corrosive. It makes any actions we want to take to get the "real criminals" so much harder.

[KittyWampus]

28. So you're not in control of your emotional reactions, at least you admit it. That's what the term

REACTIONARY SCREAMER refers to when I use it.

[MrModerate]

41. Well, that's a pretty bizarre reaction. Why would one want to "control" contempt . . .

When it's well and truly earned?

More to the point is the power of contempt to derail progressive initiatives when it's felt across the electorate. Or do you think that what happens in Washington stays in Washington, and the people's response to it is irrelevant?

[Greyhound]

14. Well that's the fucking problem, isn't it? They are all fucking criminals,

and like criminals are want to do, they are throwing out the relatively small ones so that the big ones can get away.

She's a patsy.

[bertman]

54. Aviation Pro you ask "And as already expressed on numerous posts, who the fuck were

the fucking leaders of the Democrats going to tell and who the fuck authorized the torture?" The answer is THE AMERICAN PEOPLE in a press conference. She need not have violated any security orders by saying WHAT she was told by the CIA or BushCo, but she could have shouted to the treetops that she had been briefed on things that she knew were illegal and immoral and that she could not stand idly by and let the Bushies do it.

If that had not caused a major firestorm of corporate media blathering and Republican anti-patriotism accusations I don't know what would have.

Then she could have rallied the other Democratic "leaders", who were also allegedly given these secret briefings, to her defense WITHOUT ANY OF THEM DIVULGING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.

So, if Bush had denied all of it and kept doing what they were doing at least the Democrats could have said "We tried to warn the nation. We tried to stop this." But now she's looking like the inept corporate tool that she is.

Man, this is basic shit. This is what SHE and REID and HOYER and all these top Democrats are supposed to do. But they FAILED. Now the Republicans are playing it. Just like they always do.

When will Democrats ever get it?? It's almost as if they set themselves up for this shit because they are too scare to fight back. Except for Kucinich and a few others.

[Subdivisions]

64. Did we forget the Anthrax attacks? n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

68. Pelosi voted against the war n/t

[ControlledDemolition]

61. Completely agree. I think Republic*nt, however, can also be spelt with a 2nd 'u'. n/t

(Edit: Fix typo)

[Tesha]

71. The problem is that we also know who went along quietly with all of this...

...and who *STILL, TO THIS VERY DAY*, refuse to investigate
what went on, *EVEN THOUGH THEY NOW HAVE ALL THE POWER TO DO
SO*.

Pelosi is being hoist on a scaffold of her own construction.
She should have spoken out against torture years ago. She
should have begun investigations when she ascended to her
throne in 2006. She's done none of that and the Republicans
have figured out how to use her inaction to tar her (and
the rest of our Democrats) with the torture brush.

Fools, all of them!

Tesha

[bertman]

53. MrModerate, that was fucking BRILLIANT!! Thank you

[emilyg]

56. Good post.

[AlbertCat]

57. Unfortunately, the speaker of the house is a flaming hypocrite . . .

More than Dick Cheney? Or other Repugs?
Is being a hypocrite, flaming or not, a crime now?

"We don't torture...and it was legal" BUT "Pelosi knew about the torture and is culpable" That makes sense!

I seem to remember Dems couldn't even get a room to have a conference in back then, but Pelosi is supposed to have stopped the torture. Ooooh Kay.

She and other Dems are doing what they should. Saying "This he said/she said has got to stop. A full investigation please." I don't think the Repugs wanted that response. In fact.... they never mention that part of her statements. Do the guilty call for full investigations?


Pelosi did not order it.
Her party was not in charge
She wasn't in on the meetings for choreographing specific tortures for specific prisoners, like Cheney, Rummy, Bush and Condi. But let's go after Pelosi instead!

[Zodiak]

8. Yup, a bald-faced attempt by the corporate media to spread the blame

And ignore the REAL perpetrators.

It is also an attempt to threaten the Democrats against investigating. Give the Dems a taste at what the trial in public opinion will look like when they frame it.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Forest, trees ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5663923&mesg_id=5663923

[KharmaTrain]

13. A Few Corrections...

She wasn't Speaker in 2002...she wasn't even Minority Leader (Dick Gephardt was)...she was a ranking member on the Intel Committee. Anyone know who the chairman was? That was the person responsible for asking the tough questions...a "ranking" member, especially in those days of DeLay, had little if any recourse to protest. Take it to the corporate media when they were all but salivating for war? To a blogosphere that really didn't exist at the time? And then what?

There's not much to get right here. It's Pelosi being hung out to dry by a combination of the right wing hate machine and those on this side who think she could have single-handedly impeached everyone and anyone on the planet and didn't. Not that such an impeachment with removal was possible (it wasn't)...and a failed impeachment would have vindicated the boooosh regime, all but putting any future accountability on ice. At least now we still have the options to openly investigate and get answers.

I strongly encourage Speaker Pelosi to call the right wing's bluff...call for a commission and see how much support she gets. Many here feel that Speaker is some kind of magician...or that Pelosi somehow snuck her way in. She was elected by a majority of House Democrats...not once, but four times. Not happy with her? Get on the horn and call your Congresscritter.

[Adelante]

17. Well said

:thumbsup:

[WilliamPitt]

18. +1

:toast:

[Strelnikov_]

21. I seem to remember back in 2002 the Reich propaganda machine going off

on some alleged leak from one of the classified intel briefings (in time for the election cycle, if I remember correctly).

So, I have to wonder:

A) If this was a shot across the bow to those elected officials who were briefed and expressed concern.

B) If Pelosi would have made this public, considering the atmosphere in 2002, would she have been water boarded following her very public trial for treason and subsequent transfer to Gitmo.

At times, I really wonder if some people have the capability to extrapolate.

I have no question, however, how a intellectually and morally bankrupt Reich can rise up again and again. It's easy, actually, when the opposition consistently eats it's own assisted by a media that is more than willing to cooperate.

[Rockholm]

27. Hastert was Speaker. Ranking member was for the minority party.

Don't know who the republican head was.

[polmaven]

48. Oh, God!

A voice of reason in the wilderness! THANK YOU!

Particularly for the part about not impeaching. I spoke with my Congressman about that, and he said exactly the same thing you just did. Every time I bring it up here, though, i feel like I need to - well - :hide:

[TwilightZone]

15. It's not just the press.

[spanone]

16. amazing how the media is set to pounce on a 'wounded' democrat

yet cheney A D M I T S to torturing and no one seems too upset

[baldguy]

19. The GOP Propaganda Ministry (the MSM) is just doing what its told.

[ConcernedCanuk]

22. You remind me of a friend I knew 40 years ago - couldn't make a sentence

.
.
.

without some version of "fuck" in it.

Try and find a few more adjectives, adverbs . .

might make better reading.

[Aviation Pro]

23. Duly fornicating noted, but....

....















Sometimes it takes a figurative fucking baseball bat across the back of the head to get peoples' attention.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. Some of us find the words fuck and shit, in particular, effective words in some situations .........

....... your views noted and respected, but notwithstanding.

[ConcernedCanuk]

31. I agree, but they lose their "shock" value when used constantly.

.
.
.

Whenever I use the "f" word in public, people really take note because I hardly ever swear.

I am not a prude, nor am I overly offended by profanity.

There are many adjectives and adverbs to describe emotions;

I save the profanity for REALLY emphatic reference.

People take note when I swear,

heads literally spin . .

[datasuspect]

35. i just like saying fuck

fuck

[lunatica]

36. Have you ever read Salinger's Catcher in The Rye"?

It's one of my favorites. It's about a teenage boy who is very angry and depressed and struggles to find meaning in the modern world. The word 'fuck' along with other expletives is in the book and it actually makes the book good and it's become one of the books taught in colleges as literature.

[ConcernedCanuk]

39. No I haven't, but I'll check to see if my library has it, or can get it shipped in

.
.
.

A quick google got me interested, J. D. Salinger is the author, right?

I did a quick read in Google books on some previews . .

I visit our library almost every week, sometimes I use one of the 30 computer stations there, or just return and pick out new books.

Sometimes I'll read 2 - 3 books in less than a week - mostly fiction, but some sorta relevant to our political situation.

I read different than most people I know - I will literally consume a book in a day or two - not one to read just a chapter here and there.

Thanks for the suggestion/query

[Stinky The Clown]

55. Be sure to read it through the lens of its era.

The book, though "modern", is quite old, having been originally published in the early 1950s.

[Wednesdays]

24. K&R

:kick:

I said as much to my wife after the Main $tream "News" came on yesterday.

[Rockholm]

26. Yes, that is correct.

Hastert was speaker while this shit was going on. And Bush was President, Cheney Vice President and the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress.
Yep....all Nancy's fault. She might as well have been pouring the water.
Jebus.

[Vinca]

30. The Speaker, who may or may not have known, has been turned

into the ultimate evil doer. Worse than those who concocted torture. Worse than those who ordered torture. Worse than those who tortured and worse than those who tortured other human beings to death in the name of the United States of America.

[lunatica]

32. They didn't torture but she's guilty for letting them torture

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Toucano]

34. It gets better!

The criminals who broke the law don't acknowledge that the law was broken BUT, wait, wait!

Nancy Pelosi's failure to STOP them from NOT breaking the law is an ethical dilemma for HER, not them.


It is UNBELIEVABLE!

[noamnety]

37. It's the hypocrisy.

Priest abusing a child > grocery store clerk abusing a child.
"defense-of-marriage" antigay bigot caught in a gay relationship > gay rights supporter outed in a gay relationship.
Lou Dobbs caught with an undocumented worker as nanny > immigrant rights advocate caught with an undocumented worker as nanny.

[livefreest]

40. yup! that sounds like it alright!

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Don't bother. The "We HATE Pelosi" gang will just give you the "Naah Naah Can't Hear You" treatment.

Doesn't matter that she gave us our current majority in the House. She didn't blow our entire political agenda on a futile pursuit of Bush impeachment, and some folks will never get past that.



Off the table!! Off the table!! She said off the Table!!! :eyes:

[HopeHoops]

43. FUCK YEAH!!!1 n/t

[deacon]

45. Yep. It's madness and the MSM refuses to deconstruct and expose how insane this is. n/t

[Iggo]

46. And more play than the people who actually DID it.

Yes. You've got it straight.

[The Hope Mobile]

47. YUP - now Obama's got to get your logic out there cuz reality is that

this is about sound bytes again. Anybody whose not desperate to redeem the GOP can figure out that the majority party who ordered these crimes is far more culpable than a member of the minority (whether she knew about it or not) who couldn't have done anything about it anyway. This is the crap these guys do that really pisses me off. Its like comparing vehicular manslaughter to a parking ticket.

[BlooInBloo]

49. The fundamental republican contradiction...

Torture is fine!

Pelosi knew!

[chill_wind]

62. Exactly!

Such incongruities never seem to get in their way, ever, though.

[ProSense]

50. Conservatives Express Hope That Their Attacks On Pelosi Will Quiet Calls For Truth Commission

here

[Touchdown]

51. And she wasn't even speaker of the house when she was supposedly told.

Hastert was. So if she, a mere congresswoman was told, who else was? Everybody in a more powerful position than she? Like the whole Republican caucus? They controlled the House at the time. You can bray about Pelosi all night, but it doesn't change the fact that the GOP were in charge of the House in 2003.

[The Wizard]

52. In using the Speaker as a diversion

the Repunks are admitting to war crimes.
They're saying since she knew about war crimes she's as culpable as those who committed the war crimes.
Defective logic from the minds of those with thought disorders compounded by loose associations.

[havocmom]

58. The Speaker of the House at the time of this crap has yet to be mentioned by MSM

And THAT says it all about the 'liberal media'!

What did Denny know and why didn't HE do anything about it? He was in a position with some fucking power then.

[sonias]

60. Amen - you got that right

Bait and switch. The media is brilliant at that kind of crap.

Sonia

[defendandprotect]

63. If you're watching corporate-press/TV, I presume that's what's happening . . .

Why are you watching?

[1]

65. dude, there is no "press" play...

no one is paying attention to this story.

no one..

[rhett o rick]

66. yeah, duh. What the hell you goin to do about it? nm

[harmonicon]

67. yes, because this is new information

New information is new news. Old information is old News. If someone was a mass-murdered 5 years ago, and I knew about it then, it doesn't mean that I don't want to know about the other murderer running loose today.

[Fiendish Thingy]

69. k&r - what a waste of a "free" press n/t

[pam4water]

70. MSM still distracted by... well... anything a Republican says, I guess.

[B Calm]

72. Republicans have always created a big mess, then sit back

on their hemorrhoid ass and point their finger at the democrats for doing what's necessary to clean up their mess. This is where we are right now.