Stand with me if you stand with Nancy Pelosi

[Stinky The Clown]

I was thrilled when she became Speaker. Mainly because I knew of her family background and her deep roots in Democratic politics and her closeness to her Dad and brother, both of whom were effective, beloved Baltimore mayors. Call me a "homer". Its okay. Guilty as charged!

I loved the fact that she was a woman in the third highest office in the land.

I loved that she was an Italian-American in the third highest office in the land.




I was angry when impeachment came off the table. This anger is with me today.

I have continued to hold some anger in some of her recent positions.




Nancy Pelosi is the Democratic Speaker of the House. She is also a target of a concerted effort to deflect and obfuscate the CRIMINAL ACTIONS of the top members of the Bush administration. That criminal activity goes all the way to the top. ALL THE WAY. Yet, by some twisted logic, Pelosi is being painted as their equal in culpability. That is just plain nonsense. And it has to stop. And stopping it starts with a unified Democratic Party. And that starts here at the bottom. We can always sort out our differences and we can continue to disagree with her. And even be angry with her, as I am. But we can NOT allow this right wing tactic to succeed.




I, therefor, stand with Nancy Pelosi.

Join me.

[sandnsea]

1. She's calling for a Truth Commission

Let's stand with her by demanding a Truth Commission to exonerate her.

[polichick]

27. I want a Special Prosecutor because truth commissions only look at what happened...

...and don't hold anyone legally accountable.

[sandnsea]

37. Prosecutions can come afterwards

You don't necessarily get prosecutions with a Special Prosecutor either.

[JDPriestly]

86. I prefer prosecutions also, but I strongly stand behind Nancy Pelosi.

I have looked into the legal definitions of accessory after the fact and accomplice, and I don't believe she could be charged as either regardless of what she knew or even may have said in the briefing on the torture. The OP s correct. The hullabaloo about her is yet another red herring.

I prefer prosecutions to a truth commission. A new book has been published by the chief counsel on the 9/11 Commission. The book publisher claims that the book places in question that Commission's work and their report. Commissions are just cover-ups. We need a real trial with lawyers representing each defendant and a prosecutor representing the people. That's the only way to be sure that ALL the relevant, admissible evidence is presented and considered.

[bjobotts]

95. The "impeachnment is off the table"Pelosi even before there was a table.

[bjobotts]

96. The Pelosi who wanted her constituents arrested for bugging her about impeachment

[bjobotts]

97. The Pelosi who refused to meet with her constituents any longer Pelosi

[bjobotts]

98. That Pelosi who believes in gov for the people but certainly not by them

[bjobotts]

99. The Pelosi who catered to Bush 's every demand since becoming Speaker.

[bjobotts]

100. Can't stand her...but know she's telling the truth about being mislead by the CIA

[bjobotts]

101. and know she is being used as a distraction to avoid prosecutions on torture.

[bjobotts]

102. But she had the power in her hands to stop a war and prevent further corruption by Bush

[bjobotts]

103. but cared more about politics than the people or the constitution.

[bjobotts]

104. She will be remembered only as the speaker who blocked impeachment on

[bjobotts]

105. on the worst and most corrupt and unpopular president in modern history.

[bjobotts]

108. She did nothing while Bush was in office to stop him and she could have if she'd tried

[Speed8098]

116. Curious

Your opinion is your opinion and I'm not finding fault but I wonder why you cluttered up this thread with your one line posts. Why didn't you put together a coherent statement in one post so people could discuss your position intelligently?

The way you did it, it seems you are just itching for an argument.

[Stinky The Clown]

135. When you were a kid .......

.... did you play with yourself as much as you now talk to yourself?

Just curious. No need to answer if its painful.

[spanone]

136. pretty large assumption there.

no one person could have done SHIT to get bu$h* out of office.

[creeksneakers2]

137. She opposed Bush

[Roadcyclist]

121. I stand for truth. If Pelosi is lying, she should go

There are too many people on this board who are ideologues. It seems many people forget that this country was being dismantled well before Bush came into office. So, one must also be hypercritical of Democrats who are posing as espousing Democratic ideals. No one knows who truly embraces those ideals so we must first seek truth to determine if these people are worthy of being our representatives.

[geckosfeet]

132. Seems like a lot of low post count posters calling for Pelosi to go today.

Just an observation.

[spanone]

2. i'll take pelosi over the bu$h* cia every fookin' day of the week

[malaise]

17. Ditto n/t

[blackbart99]

117. I'M WTH YOU SPANONE.....n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

3. No Support Here - If She Knew About Torture And Did Nothing She Should Be Charged

eom

[glowing]

5. then support some sort of justice and let the chips fall where they may.

[lostnotforgotten]

6. Fully Support Independent Investigator To Assess All politicians That Broke The Law

eom

[Marr]

13. Agreed. Calling for a whitewash committee doesn't inspire confidence.

And that's what these things invariably are. A bunch of politicians who've all got their hands dirty gather together and agree on a story that leaves them all looking noble.

If Pelosi will push for a real, independent investigation, I'll support her in that call 100%.

[patrice]

26. Right! This is another Bait and Switch! nt

[peace frog]

114. Absolutely

Let a thorough investigation reveal the truth, regardless of the political parties of the perpetrators.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Thanks for kicking. Life must be easy in your simple world.

[Marr]

16. It's a two-way street.

If she wants to do her job, I expect people here will support her in that effort wholeheartedly. If you think we should wave flags and shake pom-poms because she's got a (D) at the end of her name, I'll have to disagree.

I see this whole stink as a nice development, personally. Pelosi certainly never seemed very interested in "looking back" before it involved saving her own ass.

[lostnotforgotten]

21. "Saving Her Own Ass" - Think That Is The Meat Of It

eom

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

48. While I usually agree with you, in this case I don't.

The post was crystal clear.
His/her post needed no additional words.

Cheers.

[lostnotforgotten]

43. Personal Attacks Are Against DU Rules - BTW, I Have Made It A Point To Be Always Succinct

eom

[spartan61]

11. But weren't there some repukes who were also briefed about

the torture that was going on? Didn't they also have a responsibility to speak up? Aren't they guilty of putting party before country and shouldn't they be charged?

[BeFree]

14. We all knew

So we are all guilty?

What matters is what will she do now? It seems she is recognized by the fascists that she can take them down, so they are attacking her.

The question here is, on whose side shall we stand? Those attacking her, or those who support her moves for revelation of the facts?

Realizing that a tactic of some is to complain loudly in an effort to get her to make bolder moves, and those efforts are to be encouraged, realize too that those who just want to be nasty are hard to discern from those whose motives are more pure.

[cali]

18. charged with what exactly?

and sorry, there is no such charge as "complicit".

[lapfog_1]

31. Some questions for you...

1. According to the CIA, there have been 40+ briefings on interrogations of detainees from 2002 to 2008, how many of those briefings did Nancy Pelosi attend?

2. If you are a member of congress that attends a classified briefing, what are your legal requirements regarding that briefing?

a) can you take notes in the briefing?

b) can you discuss the briefing with your staff?

c) can you discuss the briefing with other members of congress?

d) can you discuss the briefing with other members of congress that were also briefed at the same meeting you attended?

e) if a staff member attends a briefing, can they discuss the details of that briefing with you?

3. Should you object to the details of what was discussed, what form can your objection legally take?

4. What are the penalties for not following the law regarding classified briefings?

5. Isn't it odd that we are discussing "What Pelosi knew and when did she know it" when the biggest news of yesterday about the torture of prisoners had nothing to do with Pelosi or briefings.... A uniformed member of the army of an "enemy" of the United States was captured in Iraq... that uniformed member of the Iraqi military was subjected to torture to illicit false testimony that Saddam and Osama bin Laden were somehow connected and jointly planned the 9/11 attacks
(now go back and read the legal opinions of the BUSH administration - however flawed they are in general - and see if torturing or any other harsh interrogation technique could legally be applied to a uniformed officer of an opposing military force).

Misdirection. Mission accomplished.

[patrice]

41. Thanks for this!

[countmyvote4real]

109. ding ding ding

You are right on all counts. Thank you.

[lapfog_1]

145. Mostly, I merely asked questions...

none of which have, to date, been answered by the poster I was responding to.

[sojourner]

139. well said!

[sandnsea]

38. The keeper of justice - convicts first

and doesn't give a shit about asking any questions, now or later.

Only terrorists are innocent until proven guilty??

[question everything]

50. In 2002 and in 2003 she was in the minority

a minority that the Republicans did not even offer a courtesy of including in any of their deliberations and decisions.

There was nothing she could have done and, since those briefing were confidential, there was nothing she could have said.

[DesertDiamond]

90. I keep in mind the repub smear machine and therefore...

I take these accusations against her and other Democrats with a several grains of salt. If we let the enemy shape our opinions of our own people, what does that say about us?

[suzie]

94. Charged with what?

[rcrush]

4. Why is she trusthworthy?

[patrice]

7. I just need to hear her stand-up STRONG on one of my issues.

I'm kind of busy lately, so I may have missed it if she did say something FORCE-full about Single Payer, or about War Crimes, or about the Employee Free Choice Act (in approximately that order).

[yellerpup]

8. K&R!

Standing with her even though she took impeachment off the table. Keep the focus on the top--the criminal gang who robbed and wrecked our country (and others). She is not equal in culpability but they will spin it that way if they can.

[madmom]

10. I will stand behind her until it is proven whether or not she did something wrong, the ONLY way to

do this is FULL DISCLOSURE. Republicans are for trickle down economics but they want trickle up prosecutions.

[mike_c]

12. sorry, no-- U.S. interrogators may have killed dozens....

If Pelosi knew, but remained silent, she is one of the war criminals, too. Not the worst of the lot, perhaps, but that's a pretty fine distinction. Tell it to the murdered and maimed, see how they feel.

The central question is "Did Pelosi know that detainees were being tortured for information?" If she knew, she is complicit. If she didn't know, she needs to stop parsing words and say it plainly: "I did not know what was being done in our names."

Personally, I think she knew full well.

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/139867/revealed%3A_u.s._interrogators_may_have_killed_dozens_of_detainees

Revealed: U.S. Interrogators May Have Killed Dozens of Detainees

United States interrogators killed nearly four dozen detainees during or after their interrogations, according a report published by a human rights researcher based on a Human Rights First report and followup investigations.

In all, 98 detainees have died while in U.S. hands. Thirty-four homicides have been identified, with at least eight detainees -- and as many as 12 -- having been tortured to death, according to a 2006 Human Rights First report that underwrites the researcher’s posting. The causes of 48 more deaths remain uncertain.

The researcher, John Sifton, worked for five years for Human Rights Watch. In a posting Tuesday, he documents myriad cases of detainees who died at the hands of their U.S. interrogators. Some of the instances he cites are graphic.

Most of those taken captive were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. They include at least one Afghani soldier, Jamal Naseer, who was mistakenly arrested in 2004. “Those arrested with Naseer later said that during interrogations U.S. personnel punched and kicked them, hung them upside down, and hit them with sticks or cables,” Sifton writes. “Some said they were doused with cold water and forced to lie in the snow. Nasser collapsed about two weeks after the arrest, complaining of stomach pain, probably an internal hemorrhage.”

more@link

[spanone]

32. if that's true then we must investigate porter goss, richard shelby and bob graham

they were all on the committee

if she was complicit, they were complicit...why is she the only one they are focused on? cause she called them on their LIES.

[mike_c]

36. yep-- I agree....

That's why I support a GENERAL war crimes investigation by an independent investigator. Nonpartisan, and let the chips fall on the responsible and the complicit alike. Let them fall HARD.

[JDPriestly]

91. Legally, she was not an accomplice

Here are some legal definitions of "accomplice."

One who knowingly, voluntarily and with common intent unites with the principal offender in the commission of a crime. {case citation omitted]
One who is in some way concerned or associated in commission of crime; partaker of guilt; one who aids or assists, or is an accessory. {case citation omitted] Equally concerned in the commission of crime. {case citation omitted] One who is guilty of complicity in crime charged, either by being present and aiding or abetting in it, or having advised and encouraged it, though absent from place when it was committed, though mere presence, acquiescence, or silence, in the absence of a duty to act, is not enough, no matter how reprehensible it may be, to constitute one an accomplice. One is liable as an accomplice to the crime of another if he gave assistance or encouragement or failed to perform a legal duty to prevent it with the intent thereby to promote or facilitate commission of the crime.

Black's Law Dictionary (6th ed.)pg. 17

Complicity: A state of being an accomplice; participation in guilt. {case citation omitted] Involvement in crime as principal or as accessory before the fact. May also refer to activities of conspirators.

Black's Law Dictionary (6th ed.) pg. 285

This portion of the definition strikes me as most important.

Nancy Pelosi's "mere presence, acquiescence, or silence, in the absence of a duty to act" would not be "enough, no matter how reprehensible" to make her an accomplice.

I've also checked on the definition of accessory after the fact. She couldn't be charged on that one either. She had no duty to act under our law.

Perhaps she could be charged in an international court, but it is likely that she would be one of the last to be charged.

[spartan61]

15. Did Nancy Pelosi write the memos? NO!

Did she order the torture? NO!!

Did she torture? NO!!

All of this blame is a distraction from who is really responsible. She makes a great target. I'm not that fond of Pelosi and I hate that she took impeachment off the table, but in this case, I have to believe her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. I believe her too

I also have to praise her for what she is doing.

But support her? No thanks.

[Peacetrain]

19. She is getting railroaded..to deflect the heat from the real culprits.

[patrice]

29. She definitely makes a convenient scapegoat for Cheney = RICH, Powerful blood is on the Anti-Governm

ent crowd's menu.

[TankLV]

20. Since she put "impeachment off the table", my support is off the table too...

she can go fuck herself with a rusty dildo for all I care...

[mike_c]

24. don't hold back now....

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Nope. Sorry.

I don't care what happens to her. She is about my least favorite Democrat in office.

[patrice]

39. Mine too, but that doesn't mean that I won't use her, if certain groups can get to her on their issu

es, IF that's possible.

BUT At minimum, if she is sacrificed the same way Hillary C was, we get to "object" by going around yelling about how Cheney is the REAL Criminal.

Of course, I'd rather just sacrifice Cheney for Murder and Robbery.

P.S. I approve of what happened to HC; I don't approve of what is happening to NP (yet). We'll see what she does. Different times, different situations, different functions . . . . MAYBE. You'd think NP would be able to call in some of her vaunted political capital and ***BUY*** mercy by giving us at least one of our other issues: Single Payer, EFCA, Significant Stimulus/Infrastructure . . . something.

[LWolf]

23. My support for her has been off the table for quite some time now. nt

[KharmaTrain]

28. We May Not Agree On Much, But I'm With You On This One...

I see the same thing with Speaker Pelosi as I am now seeing (and was expecting) with President Obama. Lots of hope and anticipation combined with frustration and when things aren't 100%, then it's time to throw them under the bus. The problem is that these people, no matter how virtuous their supporters make them to be or as evil as their detractors, they are politicians and trying to work within a system that we all believe in. It's not pretty, but it's the best this country, and any country for that matter, has.

No doubt the attacks on her are from those who want to score points for other battles. The bottom line is Speaker Pelosi is just one of 535 Congresscritter and Senators...she can lobby, she can advise, but she can't vote for them. Do we want a DeLay type party?

It's time to recgonize this is a stunt to divert attention away from the real tortureres and war crimals and the longer we keep wondering what Pelosi knew and when we knew it, the further we get from finding out who really was behing the torture and for what purpose (such as trying to find reasons to launch a war for profit).

Let it all come forward...if we find different about Pelosi on the way of getting the full truth, so be it, but right now our focus should be on the real criminals, not settling political scores.

Cheers...

[Stinky The Clown]

34. Well said .......

... all of it.

:thumbsup:

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Do we get a bag of Nancy's Guaranteed Dry Powder for our table if we do?

[patrice]

40. What with all of the Purple Dogs around, I've been wondering that too.

[ThomCat]

107. She's been saving that powder and keeping it dry for so long

she should have a lot of it saved up by now. Surely she's got enough to share by now. :P

[opihimoimoi]

42. Let the TRUTH come Forth,,,Waterboard Cheney and Bush, we need to NOE

"Why did you guys Frame Nancy?"....(ZAP to their Balls via a #14 copper wire to a 110v wall socket for 1.23 seconds)

[mzmolly]

44. Perhaps we need another "I believe Anita Hill" campaign? Though we'd

have to change Anita Hill to Nancy Pelosi. ;)

[snowdays]

45. The WH tosses her to twist in the wind--..........

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush /

May 15, 2009
Gibbs dodges Pelosi question

The White House wants nothing to do with this Nancy Pelosi fight with the CIA.

Not long after CIA Director Leon Panetta put out a statement sticking by his agency, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs dodged a question about whether Pelosi was right in questioning the CIA.

"I think you've heard the president say this a number of times: the best thing we can do is to look forward," Gibbs said. "I appreciate the invitation to get involved in here, but I'm not gonna RSVP,"

[madokie]

46. I'm standing up

[lunatica]

47. The attention deflected on her won't last long

But what will last is that they're all virtually admitting it was torture in their rush to control the message. I am confident that Pelosi will come out OK from this. It might even help her understand that the people she thought were 'colleagues across the aisle' aren't so collegial after all. She'll remember every knife in her back. Maybe she already rues her 'off the table' stand.

[peace frog]

115. Excellent point

That Pelosi will remember her enemies there is no doubt, I just hope this brief brouhaha serves to make her more mindful of who her true friends are. And, dare I suggest it, appreciate them more? Keeping my powder dry on the latter for now.

[question everything]

49. That the Limpdick "demands" her resignation

talking, of all people, about "gender equality" is good enough reason to stay put.

[ControlledDemolition]

81. Did he make this demand before or after his 3rd penile enlargement surgery? n/t

[lamp_shade]

51. Standing tall.

[shraby]

52. I'm witcha Stinky. I supported her earlier in a thread

that got trashed.

[shraby]

53. delete..duplicate

[tularetom]

54. I'll join you because this is the most bogus controversy yet, BUT

I sure as hell hope that Nancy finally wakes the fuck up and realizes who her friends are.

I don't want to hear anymore mealy mouthed bullshit like when she "took impeachment off the table". If she doesn't realize yet who's on her side and who has their knives out for her, then she's too stupid to continue to be Speaker or even a critter.

[Stinky The Clown]

61. As said in the OP, there is a lot to criticize her for ... and be damned angry with her ......

.... and standing with her on this one issue does not change any of that.

We agree, you and I.

[Happyhippychick]

55. I'm with ya.

[Reterr]

56. I wish she would get a real primary challenge from a liberal Dem

Not Sheehan or someone improbable like that but someone feasible. I think she has been awful and I don't stand with her at all.
Strong primary challenges for all the Dems like her is what I would like to see.

[cadmium]

57. Absolutely. I am with Nancy Pelosi. I can recognize a

a GOP generated big media "outrage storm" when I see one. Too many lib/progressives fall for this crap. In fact I think it is cowardly to join in the Republican media pig pile against Pelosi when it is obvious that the real culprits are the Repubs that were in power during all these travesties. Also, her blue dog rivals in Congress probably are participating in the smear campaign.

[bananas]

58. She's one of our best in Congress

The CIA has admitted that she and Bob Graham were right,
Bob Graham said this in interviews with the Huffington Post and NPR on All Things Considered,
see these threads:

Graham: CIA was 'loose with the facts' about interrogation briefings

Bob Graham: "three out of four of these alleged briefings never took place"

[felinetta]

59. I'll make the Repubs a deal: she resigns and they all go to jail1

I am so tired of her being the center of this torture issue. 
Al Gore spoke out yesterday on CNN. How much airplay do you
think he'll get?  Hell, he was only a legitimately electced
VP.  Shame on the media.  

[Greybnk48]

60. Here! n/t

[PassingFair]

62. The left hates her and the right hates her....

She is probably the ONLY TRUE CENTRIST
in Washington DC.

I like her....

I just don't think she should
be leading the House...I think we need
an avowed Progressive to whip
everyone into line.

[TwilightZone]

74. Hmm....

http://ontheissues.org/CA/Nancy_Pelosi.htm

Good luck finding many people to the left of her in Congress.

[EPIC1934]

120. Left hates her right hates her stuff is Psy op

this left hates her right hates her thing doesnt explain one thing about the so called McModerate Position:

Why do we ALWAYS KEEP MOING RIGHT

[PassingFair]

143. There are many that trend farther "south" toward the "populist" area...

and away from the "libertarian" area.

The GENERAL pig-pile on Pelosi indicates
that she tries/tried to develop consensus
within the party.

[Justitia]

63. I support our Speaker, and I happen to like her too. Thanks for a supportive thread! -eom

[ColbertWatcher]

64. Bravo, I stand with Pelosi too. k+r, n/t

[tabasco]

65. I wish she wasn't Speaker,

but I support her.

[madmax]

66. I'm with you Stinky! n/t

[lpbk2713]

69. I'm with you too,Stinky.

As long as you stand down wind.


:eyes:

[WeDidIt]

67. Standing with Nancy Pelosi has been taken off the table. n/t

[cherish44]

68. The fact that's she's calling for EVERYTHING to be released

leads me to believe she doesn't have to cover her ass. I think she's a pretty straight shooter. I have no problem believing the BUSH CIA lied to congress.

[azmouse]

70. I'll stand with Nancy.

I want the truth and I think she'll see that it gets out.

[bertman]

71. Right now I'm squatting for Nancy. Her "leadership" since we took the majority in '06 has

been of the finger-in-the-wind, corporate variety at best, and complicit with the Republicans during Bushco's regime, at worst.

Many of us seem to have forgotten that our Congressional LEADERS are elected to stand for what's right--not for what's expedient. I've said this before and I'll say this again, when she was briefed by the CIA, even if she did not get explicit descriptions of the "enhanced interrogation techniques", she should have gone public with a statement saying that she was HIGHLY DISTURBED by the implications of a classified briefing she had. That would have kept her from breaking the classified secrets rules, but it would have allowed her to bring to light the game that BushCo was playing. And it would have given the Democrats the moral high ground--territory they are unfamiliar with since the corporate lobbyists gained control of the party. Sadly, Nancy Pelosi kept her mouth shut and played along. That was a despicable abdication of her duties and her moral responsibility as a Congresswoman.

If Mrs. Pelosi is the best of the best Democrats, as the Speaker should be, then we are in some very deep doo doo.

[noamnety]

72. Funding war crimes isn't something I can "agree to disagree" about. (nt)

[Stinky The Clown]

76. To whom are you referring?

[noamnety]

79. I am referring to all the people, regardless of party,

who were aware that the defense budget was being used in part to fund war crimes and voted for that budget with that knowledge - you know, the accomplices.

[ControlledDemolition]

82. Ollie North would strongly disagree! n/t

[livefreest]

73. i'm with you

:toast: :fistbump:

[Mike 03]

75. I guess I join you. I didn't think you were a fan of hers.

I defended her for months and months but finally gave up.

I am not sure where I stand, but I will stand with you for now because I have a high regard for your posts here.

[Orsino]

77. I'm not sure what that means, exactly.

Saying we "stand with" her sounds like those goddamned yellow ribbons on all those SUVs.

I'm more interested in which specific initiatives of Pelosi's one agrees with, and what one does to help or hinder her various activities. Do we oppose the attacks launched on her from the (farther) right, just because of whose doing the attacking? Should we be running our own opposition to certain of her (in)actions? :shrug:

[sellitman]

78. The Impeachment thingy off the table still has me frosted.

But the bait and switch Repiggies can go Fuck themselves.

I'm with ya.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. That's exactly where I am, friend.

Still pissed at a lot of stuff she's done, but in no way ready to concede Jack Fucking Shit to those repubican fuckwads.

[sazemisery]

83. I'm right next to ya, brother! k&r

Even though you are a clown. :evilgrin:

[Stinky The Clown]

84. I am, indeed, .........

..... a clown.

:hi:

[pacalo]

85. You expressed my feelings well.

This bait & switch is going to bite the Repukes where it hurts most. As Frank Rich mentioned in his column, the more we learn piecemeal of this history, the more bipartisan and voluble the call for full transparency has become.

Putting the blame on Pelosi will turn this into a bipartisan effort to seek the truth.

I believe Pelosi. It was s.o.p. for the Bush/Cheney administration to exclude Democrats from any inside details; they would never have let Pelosi in on any information that could come back to haunt them.

[bc3000]

87. Not standing with her, not standing against her.

I don't completely trust Pelosi, though I do trust Bob Graham so I'm leaning in her favor.

I'm glad this is happening because now all the republicans want to get to the bottom of things. Maybe Pelosi lied, maybe she didn't, but I'm sure she's not at the bottom of the Bush Administration's torture policy. Let them chase their false "torture is legal if democrats knew about it" alibi all the way to prison.

[mopinko]

88. spot on

good job, stinky.
pass the ammunition.

[Hekate]

89. Damn straight

:patriot:

[katandmoon]

92. I'm with her. The press is making HER the fall guy. And no matter how I feel about her

In general...I sure as FUCK object to that.

Go after Bush, Cheney, Rove, and Gonzales FIRST.

[Turbineguy]

93. Impeachment

Maybe the case against impeachment was the likelihood that Bush appointees would be doing the legwork for the investigation. With somewhat predictable results.

[harmonicon]

106. I think she's a horrible human being and should resign

I think she should be ashamed of herself. I think she is guilty of crimes. I think she should be put on trial, and if convicted, imprisoned.

I will not stand with her, because I want to see justice served.

Are there far far worse criminals than her? Yes. Does that make her crimes forgivable? No.

[countmyvote4real]

110. WTF?

Dumb is dumb. And sometimes it gets even dumber which rhymes with plumber (as in Joe the).

1. How do you know for a fact that she committed any crimes? Maybe you're just specially intuitive. And if so, I applaud your skill set. If it is so strong and fail proof, where were you when the CIA needed you? It seems like your opinion, judgement or special knowledge (whatever) could have saved us all the trouble of torture in the first place. Hmmm?

2. It's not like she was the only one that was listed as informed or briefed. Where is the outrage for all the others from both parties that were bound to the same secrecy, like current SOTH Pelosi? You do realize that she wasn't even SOTH at that time. She was the minority leader at the time and even more powerless. Are you convicting her for not being Nathan Hale enough? (I suspect you'll have to google that.) Pay special attention to the "hmmm?" in point #1.

3. Somebody here is a total idiot. You might understand that better if I spell it out in familiar terms: M-O-R-A-N.

4. I guess it's all just a gut feeling on both sides, but your argument sucks. On the other hand, you are probably a very nice if ill-informed or easily swayed person. I still wouldn't want our children to play together.

Mods, you have to do what you have to do. If I have to leave. Then so be it. I do not come here for lunacy, but sometimes I just have to call it out for what it is. Love the lunatic. Hate the lunacy.

[harmonicon]

123. answers:

1. I guess I don't know for a fact that she's committed crimes, which is why I'd like to see a trial. I think continuously supporting an illegal war of aggression is crime enough. It's not as if these things have been kept secret.

2. I'm outraged at everyone else involved in this entire "war on terror boondoggle" to different degrees. Yes, I'm far more outraged at the Bush II people who started this entire thing. That doesn't give a pass to those who weren't the ring-leaders, but still had a hand in creating, funding, and perpetrating an illegal war and its associated crimes, such as torture.

3. You didn't really ask a question here.

4. It's not really a "gut feeling" that I need. The criminals who have disgraced our country have really been very open about it for the most part. One or two little quibbles between warring parties of criminals who were once in cahoots doesn't change that. I don't think I'm ill-informed, and I'm certainly not easily swayed - I'm very stubborn. It's your lucky day!: I don't have any children, so no problem there.

[western mass]

111. Poetic justice, Nancy

That's what I would call seeing you devoured by the same wolves you've helped keep in power all these years.

[Grinchie]

112. That's because she is weak and ready to be eaten by predators

She stepped right into it with her own free will, and her ineffectiveness at telling her story was her downfall.

Just because she is fair game to the PTB now isn't our fault. She needs to take responsibility for her actions and deal with it. How can we shape how the PTB paint this obvious attampt at deflection, which was brought upon Pelosi by her own deeds at that!

We just need to get all the facts, demand justice for the country and rip the relief out of the Torturers Hides.

[hardtoport]

113. Believe me, it pains me to say this

But I support Speaker Pelosi on this.

It irritates the hell out of me to see the MSM act like they're hard hitting journalists because they're repeating the Republican's talking points for them. I refuse to be distracted by their shiny faux outrage. Nancy Pelosi should be taken to task for a lot of things, but none of them trump the crimes of the previous administration.

[EPIC1934]

118. Pelosi is Corporate Scum

Pelosi is a sheer enabler. Have people been asleep for the last three years?I dont care when she became Compleetly Silent Speaker she and the Corporate Democrat Leadership have done nothing to help stop the rightward corporate march. THis is just a splite the dissidents psy op.

I cannot believe that anyone would support this total fake on an anything.

[polmaven]

119. Standing tall

in support of our speaker!

[disndat]

122. Who are you going to believe?

Leon Panetta or Nancy Impeachment-is-off-the-table Pelosi? You could tell when she was first sweating to explain or 'spin' her CIA briefings, she was lying.

[Wizard777]

124. We need to be sure that impeachment wasn't taken off the table to preserve the torture program.

Impeachment could have brought this to light sooner. She could have proceeded upon other abuses of power that would have revealed even greater abuses of power. So knowing about torture or not she she blew that call big time. That is indisputable. Once I'm sure that she wasn't a Congressional Guard protecting Bush's abuses. I'll stand behind her. But not until then. Nancy still has some splanin' to do.

[mdmc]

125. I stand with Obama - he supports Pelosi - so do I.

I hate that she has allowed herself to be a terror distraction. Other than that, I am down.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

126. I'm standing up

[DWilliamsamh]

127. It would be easier if she had stood up to Bush...even once.

And I am not talking about she was or was not briefed on regarding torture. I am talking about her general go along to get along attitude with the Bush Administration - even after the Democrats too over the majority in the house. If there isn't enough evidence to charge her with a crime, and there certainly doesn't seem to be, it wouldn't bother me one bit if her constituents didn't send her back to congress.

At some point the Democrats - especially the leadership - has GOT to start taking strong stands in support of the people and what is right. If the current Democrats - including leadership - won't do that we need to get new representative who will.

[Infinite Hope]

128. I think she knew more than she let on. If that's the case, she should step down. n/t

[October]

129. Well i think then that everyone would need to step down /nt

[Adelante]

130. Standing nt

[geckosfeet]

131. I don't think she is the best person for the job, but I stand by her in this $hitstorm.

[lonestarnot]

133. Personally, I can't stand her, but ack, I throw my hat in this ring.

[jcooksey]

134. I too stand with Nancy Pelosi

We have all too soon forgotten how bad the Bush administration was, the things they got away with and we expect Nancy to be a martyr! They would have crucified her if she came out with any substantial objections to their torture programs.
What the fuck is going on we should be hammering the former administration instead of our current officials.

[ChiciB1]

138. Personally, I Think Congress Is Going To Try To "Make" This Go Away!

I think there is BLAME on both sides and THEY don't want ANY of the particulars divulged. OUR Congress has been a GREAT disappointment to me, Repukes stick together not matter what!! They're like super glue on many issues. Democrats just are all over the place and I don't think the nation as a whole has benefited from FAR TOO MANY decisions.

I DON'T know what Pelosi knows or knew, but I certainly don't think the WHOLE TRUTH is being told AND it's basically CYA for almost ALL in Congress!

Having said that, it would be nice to believe in her and support her, but I just don't know... AND if she did know... SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!!! A person who is known for her LIBERAL STANCE on most issues may in the end have sold out. I just don't know! And NOT knowing and probably NEVER knowing, my cynicism grows!!!

[sojourner]

140. I have the same anger you describe. Also see the objective of RW attack. So I'm w/you.

[creeksneakers2]

141. I stand with you

Even if she did know, which I don't think she did, if she would have gone against Bush for being too aggressive against terrorists the whole party would have suffered, severely. And Bush et al would have just denied everything. With minority status, what could the Democrats have done? The best option was to try to retake the majority, which Democrats did.

[MasonJar]

142. Whatever my disagreements with the impeach W business I stand

with her on most things and especially in this current sham. The GOPers are trying to deflect the attention from the testimony this week of several key witnesses, which solidified and verfified the torture crimes. And thanks to MSM they have once again succeeded.

[bottomtheweaver]

144. I'm glad she came out swinging. She needs to keep punching

for once and not let Steny stand her in the corner or she'll soon be standing in concrete overshoes. Her actual press conference on Thursday was pretty aggressive, although it's been misrepresented by the NY "Psy-ops" Times as some kind of admission of guilt. Here's a transcript of what she actually said, and it was brutal, by Dem standards at least:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/14/AR2009051402100.html

Anyway, she needs to go to the mat with the CIA and hopefully abolish it or at least expose its 62-year criminal history and bring the perps to justice for their long list of depraved crimes or they'll take her out like they've taken out all their other adversaries including JFK and several members of his family.