Lies about Canada's health care

[irislake]

From the right-wing National Post (Canada). Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Canadians LOVE their government sponsored single-payer health care. Fight for it, it will transform you lives.

Lies about Canada's health care:
<http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2009/05/12/health-care-lies-about-canada.aspx>

Health care lies about Canada Part II:
<http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2009/05/13/u-s-healthcare-lies-part-ii.aspx>

[LakeSamish706]

1. There are things that certainly could be better with it, but it's one hell of a far...

cry better than south of the border where they essentially don't have any health care at all. (Except for some of the better to do folks)

[irislake]

2. To avoid having to register for Part One

Click on Part II go to Home and scroll to bottom for Diane Francis blog. Sorry I am an inexperienced senior and do not know how to post articles expertly but think this is important information.

[Barcelona]

3. UHC is not a right people would be willing to lose

At least I'd expect massive riots here if any government tried to dismantle our national healthcare system.

I can't imagine a turning back to a private-based, screw-you-if-you're-poor system

[Mythsaje]

4. I was told the other day by someone that all the Canadians

he knew hate their health care system.

My response? "Would they like OURS?"

I find it hard to believe, myself, considering every Canadian I've talked to had no complaints at all to speak of.

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. We Canuks don't hate our health-care, but like any other government organization, it ain't perfect.

.
.

Our wait times bug us somewhat.

Not all of us have "family" doctors - ergo we get different doctors when we go to clinics and emerg services.

I have a few chronic issues, been to emerg - more as a clinic than an emergency, 4 times in the last two months - lab tests, consults and physical aids - -

my only cost is the gas to get back and forth.

I've had more serious operations in the past, two hernia repairs in early 70's, an ulnar nerve transposition in the 90's (those are dates, not my age!)

my only cost was my transportation - even my test 2 years ago for another pending operation, another ulnar nerve transposition on my left arm - transportation cost was paid - and of course no bill for the testing . .

yeah we whine about it - we are a bit spoiled - BUT

It never costs us money - even painkillers, and other drug costs are covered.

Us Canuks will never go broke because of a health issue.

We are covered from "cradle to grave" as they say . .

AND

any government that tries to take that away;

just committed political suicide!

[eridani]

14. Would underfunding be less of a problem if--

--you had a separate health care trust fund like Social Security set up? That way health care wouldn't have to compete with roads and schools every budget year. Both US single payer bills propose such a fund.

[underpants]

5. Marking for later

[AllieB]

6. Thank you. There have been articles from RW publications used here as evidence on DU

of the system's failure:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5629908#5632041

I posted an article about the long waits to see drs. here in Boston:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5663132&mesg_id=5663132

“Average times to get appointments with doctors in Boston ranged from 21 days for cardiologists to 70 days for obstetrician-gynecologists. But when surveyers called, some dermatology and family practice offices said they couldn't get an appointment for a year.”

[many a good man]

7. The Greatest American in history will be the one who brings us health care

We ought to follow the lead of our good neighbors up north..



http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy.html

[stevedeshazer]

9. Thank you for posting this

Good information to fight the right-wing liars here in the U.S.

[Spazito]

10. Thanks, irislake, for these links...

I would have missed the articles had you not posted them as I am not a fan of the right-leaning National Post. I must say it did surprise me to see both these articles being published by them and, adding to that, even more surprised to see the author is Diane Francis, not exactly a leftie either. Both articles are a true reflection of our system and the differences between the Canadian and US healthcare programs.

Recommended.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. There are clearly parts of the Canadian and UK systems that would not work in the US

and there are enough horror stories and stories of Canadians coming to the US for things that the US will never go quite the same way. I expect some sort of universal coverage with some private options will be where we get to. Maybe like France or even Israel

[eridani]

15. Except that the horror stories are bullshit

Canada is something of a special case, with a country 10 times its size with an oversupply of a lot of specialists. Therefore they can afford to behave like my analytical lab. When our thermal analyzer crapped out, we looked at our requests for those tests and decided they weren't worth spending $60K on a new machine. We farmed out that work to a larger lab. Why is that considered smart practice when a business does it and incompetence when a government does it?

BTW, Canada, like all other countries with universal health care, has private options for extra bells and whistles. Government plans (with a couple of exceptions like Switzerland) do all the heavy financial lifting. And Switzerland penalizes insurance companies who successfully cherry pick lower risks by assessing a tax on them that they give to the unsuccessful cherrypickers.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. We very last one of them? Those in England too?

There are some that are legitimate and they will be used to discredit it to the point where universal coverage vice government managed care will become the norm.

At this point getting some sort of universal coverage in place is most important. It can be tuned from there.

[eridani]

20. This is nonsense. Every country has horror stories, and ours are the worst

In no other industrialized country do 18,000+ people die for lack of money to pay health care. In no other country is there such a thing as a pre-existing condition.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Those don't resonate or make the papers here, Canadians coming to the US for timely treatment does

I am also well aware of the horror stories in the US. Regardless we are never going to make a single leap to Canadian or UK style medical care.

My point is that first we will have to get universal coverage and from there grow it to be fairer and more encompassing.

[eridani]

22. There are no problems with timely treatment in Canada for actual emergencies

The waits are for elective surgery. Some Canadians, like many Americans, prefer getting non-emergency treatment ahead of people in danger of dying. Sociopathology knows no national boundaries.

We can't afford universal coverage any way other than single payer. All other options will bankrupt us.

[quiller4]

23. Canadians coming to US for timely treatment is a myth today

In the early 70s I often met wealthy Canadians who came to the US for elective procedures. Now the wait in Washington is longer than the wait in BC.

[area51]

12. Kick.

A toast to Canadians for their healthcare. :toast:

[proteus_lives]

13. Questions.

Canada's pop. is 33 million. Could we provide services for over 300 million people?

How you pay for that kind of health care? Is the answer as simple as higher taxes?


I'm asking because I've never really paid attention to HC before.

[eridani]

16. Jesus fucking Keerist! We are ALREADY PAYING for universal health care!

We just arent GETTING it! On a per capita basis, we already pay twice what every other industrialized country pays. All you need to do is eliminate insurance companies and spend the money on those who actually provide care. I would rather pay a $150/month "tax" than a $450/month "premium" myself. Anyone who would prefer the latter is too stupid to live. And I'm sure that companies now spending 16% of their payroll on private insurance would prefer the 10% that the government would charge.

[tkmorris]

17. I would imagine the per capita tax costs would be similar

In fact, in a nation like ours which is smaller than Canada yet has 10 times it's population I would imagine we could cut those per capita costs a bit as the economies of scale kick in. The United States can have larger hospitals for example, serving more people, than most of Canada can outside of a few major cities. Larger facilities serving the same number of people cuts costs. I would assume we can also negotiate slightly better prescription drugs costs, and so on.

[jeanpalmer]

18. If the US spends 16.2% of GDP as she says

That's a little more than $7000 per capita. The last figure I saw for Canada was $3800 per capita. So if we adopted Canada's system and spent $7000 per capita instead of the $3800 they spend, would we have Canada's system without any of it alleged shortcomings?

[area51]

24. Another kick. (n/t)