No one will ever be held accountable for torture if the focus continues to be on Nancy

[me b zola]

In the name of all that is good, I beg all of you, whether you believe Nancy or believe that she was complicit and/or should have spoken up, as long as the focus is on her no one will ever be held accountable. Almost every news source allows goppers to come on their shows and deny any or any combination of the following:

A) torture is illegal, both domestically and internationally, and violates the very essence of American values

B) the bush* White House formulated a policy of and order the use of torture

C) torture is ineffective

Almost every news source will blather on and on about Nancy, and then almost without taking a breath, will have some insane "debate" about whether or not bush* tortured and whether or not it was "necessary".

Evidence is mounting that torture was used to sell the war in Iraq, not to "keep America safe". But you won't hear this discussed, with very few notable exceptions. This story will never be seared into the minds of Americans as long as we busy ourselves either defending Nancy or condemning her. I'd wager a bet, though, that within a week we will see a poll about Nancy, and this will be used to intimidate lawmakers & the Justice Dept from pursuing the crimes of torture--because we allowed the story to be about her.

This isn't about Nancy, and we can't allow them to get away with disappearing the facts with the same smoke and mirrors and slight of hand that has already put us on the brink of ruin.

:rant:

[EFerrari]

1. You got that right! K&R

:kick:

[xchrom]

2. it's a republican crime -- not that i don't think the chips should fall where

they may -- but toture is a repupLick party problem -- and should remain that way.

[me b zola]

4. Exactly!

Let the truth and it's consequences roll down hill. But we will never have the truth if it allows the republicans who devised and implemented torture to get away with it.

[RandomThoughts]

3. They may be worried

That prosecutions may let information out on lots of other parts of 'the system'.

It might look like when you peel the cover off of a golf ball, and let the bands unwind.

Plus once the people see that the 'special people' are not immune, they may believe they can make a difference in their own government.

Or maybe they don't want torture to become illegal, by enforcing the laws against torture.

[me b zola]

9. Nah, it's a political hot potato

...and people are afraid of getting burned if they touch the potato. There many be a few sick ucks in Congress who like the idea of torture, but I believe that to most it's just a political issue.

[Happyhippychick]

5. You mean Cheney had a guy tortured until he falsified a link between Iraq and Al Qaida and it's not

Nancy's fault?

[Rageneau]

6. That's the idea, you know. The GOP and MSM want to bash Dems, not discover truth.

[pkdu]

7. K&R....off to the main page with you!!

My thoughts EXACTLY.

Cheers
P

[suffragette]

8. Agree with you completely

K&R

[MADem]

10. Nancy, pictures, from completed investigations..... pictures, Nancy....

While everyone's talking peripheral shit, and getting all huffy about it, Cheney and Rumsfeld aren't getting any younger.

Here's the Executive Summary of a document that EVERYONE oughta be looking at. The full Enchilada is over two hundred pages long, the summary, which is still a beauteous thing, is a mere nineteen pages. I think investigations should be based on examinations of this caliber, myself, and anyone whose name appears in this document oughta be testifying before a Joint Session of the Armed Services Committees in open hearings :

http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/EXEC%20SUMMARY-CONCLUSIONS_For%20Release_12%20December%202008.pdf

[me b zola]

16. Has that report had it's own thread?

It is indeed the full enchilada and is damning evidence. A million thanks for posting.

[MADem]

18. No, I don't think so. I've posted within ones several times. You're the first person, I think,

who's even bothered to comment on it. People say they care about the issue, and then don't bother to look at the stuff that counts--it's frustrating, ya know?

I do think that the Senate Report should be the cornerstone of any investigation. It's well done. It's pretty broad-reaching. It covers the waterfront in terms of timeline, and the way that conclusions with regard to "let's not call it torture" were developed. It names names.

In the military and in government (and other disciplines, too) you often hear the phrase "Pull the string," in the midst of a discussion or argument about how something unwound, or what course of action one should take. This document "pulls the string" and you can see, plainly, where the whole torture mess came from, and you can see the names of the players and the likely suspects right out in front. It's a brilliant unravelling.

The full document is 239 pages, give or take, and I'm sure that the "juciest" parts are the redacted bits that are blacked out. Even at that, it's pretty compelling.

I do wish we'd have the discussion about this sort of document, that MATTERS, rather than carping about attachments to completed investigations, or griping about a legislator who says "Look, I didn't hear that shit, so stop trying to say I did." Those are the distractions that make people think they're engaging in the real issues, when they're being played like a fish on a hook to spit and fume about things that don't matter, while ignoring the stuff that really does.

I suppose if this report had a few disturbing photos attached, it might be all the rage--no one wants to read anymore!

[elleng]

11. It WON'T remain on Nancy,

especially after Bob Graham's evidence. For whatever reasons, CIA was not forthcoming. Sorry Panetta inserted himself into the 'debate.'

Reps are going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. KnR

[loveable liberal]

13. Nancy Knew..... its why she kept impeachment off the table.

between her decisions and Obama's; I voted and supported them because I thought the both had the nuts to do what is right. Apparently not.

[walldude]

14. They can't "get" Nancy without getting themselves...

this was all a ploy to get the Dems to drop any pending investigations. Problem is the people want the truth.

[Uncle Joe]

15. The corporate media don't want to hold the "decider" responsible?

What gives corporate media, unless someone has a different version of the Constitution; where it states "The ranking member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
or even Speaker of the House is the "decider?"

Even if the "decider;" was Cheney and not really Bush, it still comes down to one of those two, maybe they both decided to implement this policy of torture, but it was their decision to implement, whether Pelosi is guilty of being informed after the fact or not, Cheney/Bush Bush/Cheney were the deciders.

So why does the corporate media go after the small fish, when Jaws was making the decisions!?

Thanks for the thread, me b zola.

[kentuck]

17. "Plausible deniability"...

An old phrase from the Watergate era.

[Wednesdays]

19. K&R

:kick: