1 year ago: 44% anti choice. Today: 51% anti choice

[Stinky The Clown]

I find that illogical and unbelievable. I have no doubt the media has all the proof needed to run with this story.

[Hepburn]

1. That is surprising....

...I would have figured that the numbers had gone the other direction.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Yeah, me too. That's why I posted this. I find it impossible to beleive.

[Control-Z]

7. So would I.

I wonder how much it has to do with the youth vote. There appear to be more active young people now, more than ever. How many of them were not part of the polling population last year?

[atreides1]

2. You forgot the sarcasm.

Since when has the media needed proof for anytihng they ran?

[spanone]

3. after electing a democratic president the country turns MORE conservative?

something in that poll is stinky.....no offense

[ecstatic]

4. Americans tend to get complacent when their rights are "secure"

A false sense of security.

[Jennicut]

5. I think that poll is crap and its one poll.

[book_worm]

8. I'm not surprised. I've noticed that the anti-choice crowd has been more active

of late on advertising and getting out its message. Maybe the pro-choice group should do the same.

[Doremus]

9. That was a Gallup poll.

'Nuff said?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

10. I'd like to see the phraseology on each poll. I smell "push." -nt

[progressoid]

11. Me too.

Considering we seem to be (finally!) moving to the left, I wonder why this poll shows the opposite.

[kirby]

12. anti-choice?

It was pro-life vs anti-abortion. I do not believe the question was phrased anti-choice.

Here is the source (and question):

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

Only 23% say it should be illegal. An important distinction!

[bat country]

21. The data on that chart

states that in the last 12 or so months approximately 21,000,000 people have changed their minds and decided that they are now "pro life." That's ludicrous. The data is crap and the study is crap.

[tsuki]

23. They are not "pro life," they are anti choice. To be pro-life, you

must be for a social safety net like SCHIP, against torture, against capital punishment, against war. Anything else is the smug self-righteousness of making choice illegal.

"Look, Lord, look. I am for making abortion illegal, not fixing the problem. You can kill all the Jews in Israel and Rapture me now?"

[iamthebandfanman]

40. people just want to feel good about themselves...

who woud wanna say they werent pro-life?

hell, im pro-life too... but i think people should get to decide what they do with their own body...

[redqueen]

32. Alternate headline - "77% of Americans Support Legal Abortion"

This is how they fuck with people's heads.

They are attempting to manipulate public opinion.

[Redbear]

13. The pro-choice Republican is rapidly disappearing

Here is the phraseology etc.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

In the text they point out that Democrats have remained the same while Republicans have become more pro-life.

It explains why Arlen Specter had to switch and why Tom Ridge wont even run.

[Raster]

14. It all depends on how the question is asked.

I have NO DOUBT that if asked:

"Do you believe that a woman should have freedom of choice to decide whether or not to terminate an unwanted pregnancy?"

the answer would be a resounding YES!!! All previous polling seems to indicate this. I believe we are seeing yet another example of right-wing "push" poling.

[Redbear]

15. With respect to the abortion issue, do you consider yourself

to be pro-choice or pro-life?

That's the exact question.

[Raster]

16. Just using the term "pro-life" frames the question.

The question should be: "Are you pro-choice or anti-choice?"

[spanone]

17. you're right, no one is 'anti-life'

[Tommy_Carcetti]

58. And no one is "anti-choice" either.

Given that everything one does in life, besides heartbeats, breathing and involuntary spasms constitutes a "choice", it is pretty ludicrious that any person would be against people having any type of choice in all aspects of life.

Yes, the choice to have an abortion is in fact a choice, but it is only one of millions upon millions of choices people make in their lives. Trying to euphamize the issue of abortion simply by relegating it to the word "choice" only dumbs down the issue to ridiculous levels.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. "Pro-life" may be ridiculously inaccurate given some of the people who take that banner, but "pro-choice" makes just as little sense.

[hugo_from_TN]

22. The question has not changed over the years.

Only the percentage responses. Thus the way the question is framed is not the issue.

[DatManFromNawlins]

51. Incorrect.

The question should be "Are you for abortion rights or against abortion rights?"

Pro-choice, like pro-life, is a politically loaded word that is used to deflect from what actually takes place during an abortion.

It is not simply "the right to choose," it is "the right to choose to abort an unwanted, undesirable, or physically harmful pregnancy."

Don't like it? Too bad, because that's about as honest as it gets. Anything other description is just a political game.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. Exactly

"pro-life" is a political and very loaded term. It evokes just the sort of emotions that its inventors on the right intended. And as a descriptor, it's crap.

[Hepburn]

30. Even with that question...

...it still suprises me that "pro life" was the higher numbered choice.

I guess I will always be a 60s radical...and never understand the attraction to the term pro life. To me, pro choice IS pro life.

JMHO

[Pisces]

18. Also consider that even pro-choice advocates don't feel comfortable with the fact that medical

science is allowing for earlier and earlier viability. Sometimes the pro-choice crowd is similar to the NRA who is afraid to give up a little fearing that Roe v Wade would fall. It is possible for 23 week old babies to survive and thrive. Neo natal hospitals are doing it every day. I am pro- choice, and think that we can expand the conversation. I agree with Obama that no one is pro-abortion.

Before flaming me I am also a NARAL member.

[Kalyke]

29. But most women have abortions far before viability.

52 percent occur before the 9th week of pregnancy - far, far, far before viability.

52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

(Edited to add that the site linked is an anti-choice site, but the statistical info is still valid. You don't have to click on it if you don't want. I'm sure the same info can be found elsewhere).

[Iris]

33. survive, maybe. Thrive? That remains to be seen. n/t

[vadawg]

53. yup, since the premature birth of my kids, i err on the abortion is bad side a lot more

this is the conundrum, my wife on the other hand went from very pro choice to totally against all abortions as soon as she saw the 3d images on the sonagram, even to the point that she got very upset withher mother referring to her baby as the fetus. I think as science shows us more of the womb and the development, more people are going to see babies rather than just tissue.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

19. I don't find it unbelievable.

The pro-life forces have made big major headway with their protests and pictures of fetuses and making abortion more socially unacceptable. I do believe they have swung the pendulum in their direction. At the same time, birth control nowadays is pretty reliable with many, many choices available as well as the day after pill, so that one would think that abortion itself would be in less demand than previously as birth control back-up. Perhaps SOME people who might still call themselves pro-choice, just don't see the need for abortion to remain as a choice except in cases of rape and incest. I am only postulating, I don't know if this is true or not.

Growing as a major issue is where the really, really far conservative uber religious forces are now trying to control the right to actual birth control with their abstinence only mantra. This is really misguided and one would think would lead to MORE abortions due to women being denied access to birth control. Also, these groups are trying to ban some forms of birth control by defining them as working due to causing spontaneous abortions. They are expanding the definitions of what they call "abortion". So they are not only telling people they have no right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, but they have also no right to try to control the pregnancy in the first place.

Now, I also have to wonder what is up with all of these conservative and right-wing people suddenly converting to Catholicism? I am thinking that is how they will explain in the future being against abortion AND birth control. "Sorry, that's my religion, the Pope says no birth control." Which then leads me to imagining the whole Handmaiden's Tale scenario where the choices will be : no sex or unprotected sex and lots of pregnancies with no role for womens' preferences in the matter.

[Warpy]

20. I don't buy it.

The only way such a large shift could have occurred is a notorious case presented by the media or a massive disinformation campaign by antichoicers in the major media, neither of which has occurred. In addition, the greatest predictor of antichoice sentiment, weekly church attendance, is down.

Gallup has been notorious in the past for weighting their polls heavily toward the GOP. I think this is just more of the same.

[CTyankee]

25. Do you find it interesting that this poll has appeared right as Obama is considering a Supreme

Court candidate to replace Souter?

I do.

[spanone]

26. i do too.

[raccoon]

27. I think a lot of polls you have to take with a few grains of salt. Considering how

something is worded makes a big difference in how people answer the question.

[Frances]

24. I read somewhere

that it depends on the specific circumstances

My personal observation is that more and more Americans are seeing embryos on ultra sound. So they are seeing embryos as human.

However, if there is some compelling reason that this embryo should not continue, then most Americans are supportive of abortion.

Abortion is a complicated moral issue. I know of a woman who was date raped and then had a son. He grew up and had 5 kids that he abused. 3 of the 5 have committed suicide. I often think that it would have been less painful to so many people if his mother had had an abortion.

[Iris]

34. embryos don't look particularly human to me

but I'm just a mean, childless witch.

[Frances]

48. I admit that I could never have found the embryo on

my daughters' ultra sounds, but they could, and so could their husbands.

I think those ultra sounds have made a difference in people's perceptions, but, as I said, sometimes the embryo would be better off not to develop IMO.

I told you about the 3 suicides of the children of the son of a rape victim.

Another woman I know got pregnant by a man not her husband. That child is now in his 50s. He's been in and out of prison on drug charges. In our little town, everyone knew his story. He said he was called a bastard all his life. Would he have been better off if his mother had taken a morning after pill?

And what about the young girl in our town molested by her older brother? She's had a very bad life; it would have been worse if she had gotten pregnant and had to have a child who was the result of incest.

[Iris]

49. yes, I guess we see what we see.

And that can obviously be colored by the experiences you've detailed here. I liked Obama's attempt to meet this debate head-on, but I fear most pro-life types will not move an inch because they can't see how what they think is black and white can take on many, many shades of gray depending on the circumstances.

[inthebrain]

28. That acutal pool conducted does not reflect those numbers. It's 22/23.

The actual numbers in the poll are 22 to 23 where people describe themselves as pro life or pro choice. The people in the middle agree abortion should bekept legal with restrictions.

The people in the middle that hold that view are no diffrent than the VP who wants late term abortions banned. The problem is that the pro lifers LIE through their teeth about late term abortions and it's the crux of their propaganda. Late terms occur when the life of the mothers is threatened.

[Iris]

35. I always wonder if people choose the "with restrictions" to make

themselves feel better. I mean, if you think a woman has a right to terminate a pregnancy, then to whom are you going to give authority to restrict her making that choice?

[inthebrain]

42. That's because there's a lot of disinfo on the subject of DNXes

And the fact that there are so many Democrats who have voted against those in the past (Kucinich and Biden) doesn't help. Biden today would outlaw the DNX if given a deciding vote in the senate.

[Iris]

44. yes, it's disgusting.

Women's lives subject to the whims of politics.

[FLAprogressive]

31. There are a lot of people who are "pro-life" and support abortion rights.

[nini]

36. until it's them that finds themselves pregnant

then it's a 'personal' situation.

[ismnotwasm]

37. Partly, it might be a framing issue

The question should be "Do you believe a women should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term"

"Anti-choice, or the nauseating "Pro-life" banner wavers believe in forced birth for all women, everywhere.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. Show me ten more well run polls that show the same thing and I'll consider believing it.

[Raster]

56. Ding! Gallup seems to have an agenda, and not a progressive one at that.

[melm00se]

39. the real message

here is that the "legal/illegal under any circumstances" groups are not the majority of Americans, the legal under certain circumstances IS the majority and when you drill into that group you will find that their big objection is abortion as a method of birth control.

[slackmaster]

41. That is not the most important statistic in the Gallup poll on abortion IMO

More important IMO is that only 23% are in favor of banning it under all circumstances. The extreme on that end is a small minority.

The reality is that present law allows states to regulate late-term abortions, and the states all do that. Nothing needs to change. The system is not broken, and there is no chance that a Congress in favor of an outright ban could ever be elected.

[Bill McBlueState]

43. see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5677529

[Kaleva]

45. For most, the pro-life & pro-choice labels are interchangeable

[marlakay]

46. They must be asking the questions wrong

I mean I know many people who believe in choice but would never have an abortion themselves.

[Kaleva]

47. Taking the pro-choice or pro-life stands to the extreme

A pro-life person would be one who believes abortion ought to be illegal for any reason even in the case of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at stake. A pro-choice person would believe that a woman ought to be able to have a legal abortion for whatever reason and at anytime during the pregnancy. From what I've seen in the polls, only a small minority support either situation.

[SoCalDem]

50. The way a question is worded, decides the answers..

as does the area polled, the time of day polled..

If you stop random people at 10 am on a Sunday..outside Home depot, you will likely get answers from non-church-goers..If you survey at 11:30 outside a restaurant near 4 churches, you will probably get a lot of church-goers

Polls are never what they "seem"..

If the question is:

Should a woman have the right to a safe early-term legal abortion?
vs
Should a woman be allowed to kill her unborn baby?
.............................................
Should a pharmacist be able to not fill a prescriptiopn that induces a miscarriage?
vs
Should a pharmacist be allowed to deny a patient a legally prescribed medication?
.............................................

The left has allowed the whole issue to be defined in narrow, ugly ways.

Choice is the issue..not the procedure itself.

The "procedure" has been going on since humans discovered sharp sticks.

MOST abortions happen before anyone but the closest friend even knows there is a pregnancy. Many women don't tell ANYONE.

The way medicine is practiced these days, has made it a bigger issue than it ever was.

When I was a young girl, I kept hearing about women who had "terrible female problems" and had to have a D&C.. The D&C was as common as the "common cold" back in the 50's & 60's.. and it's RARE these days..

Once the pill & legal abortion came along, those "female problems" seemed to clear right up for many women..

A woman who finds herself pregnant, and who does not want to be, WILL find a way..legal or illegal.

[depakid]

52. Don't buy into Gallup's agenda

They're not interested in reflected pulbic opinion- but rather- influencing it.

Look at the GSS data is you want more accurate figures.

[JerseygirlCT]

54. With this question especially, I think exactly

what and how the respondents were asked makes a huge difference.

Were they asked about legality? IOW, should someone who has an abortion be prosecuted? The doctor who performs one?

I think there's a definite difference between people's personal feelings about abortion and their opinions about whether it ought to remain legal.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

57. Before you start complaining about push polling....

...perhaps you might want to avoid loaded terms like "anti-choice." Not saying that "pro-life" is any more accurate of a description of the position, but a simple "anti-abortion" is accurate term that honestly reflects those who take that position. If people want to have a rational and reasoned dialogue on the abortion issue, they should discard the old "life" and "choice" bumper sticker slogans.

Just saying, glass houses and all....