GRAHAM's Notorious Notes Killing CIA'S Credibility

[kpete]

Bob Graham: It Was OCA, with the Briefing, in the Hart Senate Building
By: emptywheel Monday May 18, 2009 7:12 am


Bob Graham was just on CSPAN's Washington Journal. He raised two more potential problems with the CIA's account of its briefings on torture.

First, he said Stan Moskowitz, from the CIA's Office of Congressional Affairs, conducted the briefing. Yet the CIA says that people from the CounterTerrorism Center conducted the briefing. As I have suggested, that might mean that Jose Rodriguez, then head of CTC, conducted the briefing; Rodriguez is the guy who later ordered the destruction of the torture tapes. Or it might mean that Jonathan Fredman, the guy who once said "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong," and then-Counsel for CTC, did the briefing. But Graham was absolutely unequivocal that-based on his famously anal notes, Moskowitz did the briefing.

Now, this may not be a real discrepancy. Maybe people from CTC attended the briefing and Moskowitz led it. I'll try to get some clarification on this question. One place we can't get clarification on the briefing, though, is from Moskowitz himself; he passed away in 2006.

But Graham's other point was clearly damning. He said the briefing occurred in the Hart Senate Office Building and not--as happened with highly classified briefings--at the White House. That detail, plus Graham's earlier observation that staffers attended the briefing, suggest the briefing was not treated as typical "Gang of Four" or "Gang of Eight" briefings were generally treated.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/18/bob-graham-it-was-oca-with-the-briefing-in-the-hart-senate-building/

[pleah]

1. K&R

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[jsamuel]

3. k&r

[TwilightZone]

4. Hmm, let's see...who to believe.

A note-taking Congressman who pretty much everyone agrees is trustworthy.

Or the CIA.

Such a difficult choice.

[cali]

5. A note taking Senator but aside from that

you're right, it's an easy choice.

[TwilightZone]

6. Senators are members of Congress...

right? :)

[cali]

7. true enough.

(though they aren't referred to as Congressman)

:hi:

[TwilightZone]

9. I did that intentionally.

I wanted the point to be that anyone in Congress - House or Senate - that is as detailed a note-taker as Bob Graham should be considered a better source than the CIA, particularly a member of the CIA that wasn't even in the briefing room at the time.

[spanone]

8. k&r...

[blogslut]

10. Rachel Maddow did a story on Graham and his notes

And I would imagine his little notebooks were legendary on the hill.

[mzmolly]

14. They were legendary indeed. I recall when his name was tossed about for VP

the R's insinuated that he was essentially unstable because he carried a notebook.

[rucognizant]

35. He ran for President in 2004!

Stepped out of the race early on because note taking nerds, couldn't compete!

[ColbertWatcher]

39. His official governor portrait shows him holding one of his notebooks ...

You can read more about it here: http://www.museumoffloridahistory.com/collections/governors/about.cfm?id=45

[ellie]

16. I was wondering when

someone was going to mention this. Graham is a notorious note taker. Good for him!

[spanone]

11. i think ALL congress folks should learn a lesson from bob graham....take fucking notes

you never know when your government may target YOU.

[KharmaTrain]

12. The Corporate Media Still Doesn't Get It...

Graham could be an inadvertant hero here thanks to his obsessive compulsive (as one DUer aptly put it) note taking. The CIA did count on that...just 7 years of clouds and a disinformation campaign to put the onus on Pelosi rather than on the agency or cheney to come up with specifics. Even Panetta's response to the accuracy of the dates are less than iron-clad, but the corporate media is going with the right wing spin on this thus taking the bait and making it all about what a member of the minority in the House knew rather than the Vice President.

Graham did a very good job this morning not totally supporting Pelosi...he couldn't. They received different types of briefings, but he did cast plenty of doubt on what those meetings were about and that he felt misled by what he was told. In essence he was told just enough to fulfill the advise and consent provisions of the constitution (and to compromise a few Democrats to boot) while covering up what was really going on.

Marcy's timeline is the best in trying to get a handle on all the misinformation being thrown around. The rushpublicans know the corporate media has the attention span of a fruit fly and will be too lazy to look back at what happened and when. It's easier and more lucrative to play the he said/she said game. Thank goodness Marcy and others are doing the real dot connecting...turning what many of us had suspected into solid evidence and fact.

[flyarm]

13. and people used to make jokes about Bob's note taking!!

The jokes were non stop when he ran in the primaries..about the notes he took..

Bob is from my state..i have agreed with him and sometimes disagreed with him..and i have personally told him so, on more than one occassion..I wasn't too happy with who he had breakfast with the morning of 9/11..but i never laughed at his note taking..i believe more people should do the same..especially those in our congress!

[Wednesdays]

15. K&R

:kick:

[GreenTea]

17. The secret covert killing machine known as the CIA wouldn't lie? Who in the fuck is stupid and

ignorant enough to believe this bullshit? Republicans, dittoheads? Even they aren't that fucking stupid are they?

The CIA has always been an organization based on lies, betrayals and treachery...all for the end to justify the means...i.e. American corporate imperialism around the world.

[L. Coyote]

26. Will Porter Goss be prosecuted for lying to Congress?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5671623

Give an incompetent liar enough rope ....

Goss in attempting to put that noose on Rep. Nancy Pelosi, seems to have forgotten his own contradictory testimony to Congress. If Goss and Pelosi were briefed about waterboarding, Goss lied to Congress, a crime. Goss' own statements are now evidence implicating himself.

Even competent liars eventually get caught in the web of their own irreconcilable constructions.

...........

Porter Goss blatantly lied to a Congressional Comm.

So, if the Rs want to discuss lying to Congress, and point fingers at Pelosi, let's bring this Catch 22 into the discussion.

[MasonJar]

30. But according to several PUG senators, the CIA would never lie to the Senate.

That said this whole calamity is due to Bush/Cheney, not the CIA or the dems. We need to keep the focus where it belongs: the Bush administration of crooks, murderers, liars, torturers, sadists. warmongers, spies and many, many etcs. This sudden enmity between the CIA and dems is just what the Ws want. However, if our president has any sense at all about what is right (and I certainly believe he does), then he can no longer ignore the ever mounting evidence of torture and murder, which were obviously perpetrated to salvage the rationale for an illegal war of aggression. Please, President Obama, come forward and appoint a Special Prosecutor. This clear system of defined war crimes will never go away; it is too egregious. To continue to ignore the atrocities will not assist your committment to other issues of merit, it will instead sink them.

[GreenTea]

31. And one of the biggest liars Newt Gingrich, if one can believe that.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

18. It doesn't say much for the CIA spooks if they didn't think to alter Graham's notes.

Seems like at most third-rate burglary stuff to me.:)

[Stinger2]

19. Palosi Did It

Palosi Did It, its like a magic trick, divert the eye from the stage as they pull a rabbit out of there ass.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

20. A double switcharoo? CIA changes Graham's notes and Pelosi changes them back?

Could be... "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."

[L. Coyote]

28. That's a new twist on down the rabbit hole!

It's Pelosi, FYI.

[Usrename]

32. lol

They really are having some severe problems over there at the CIA, it's almost as if they have stopped trying.

[Toucano]

21. And Panetta is not in a position to know.

Bob's notes are more reliable.

[tanyev]

22. Oops, wrong thread.

[redqueen]

23. K&R

Where are the Pelosi bashers on this issue today?

Have they suddenly stopped listening to the M$M?

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Told y'all that Graham took good journal notes.

He Twitttered long before Twitter was invented.

[tomp]

25. suggesting the cia had credibility to kill? nt

[MasonJar]

27. Bob Graham is an AMERICAN HERO. I wish he had never left the Senate.

He took his job seriously, being one of a handful of senators who bothered to read all of the Bush indictment of Saddam and then of course he voted against the war in Iraq. He went out and did the jobs of his constituents so he could know better their needs. And most significantly for the here and now Graham is famous for his copious notes. How dumb is an intelligence gathering agency not to know that? Most of the rest of us know. Some spy agency!!!!! Don't screw with Bob Graham, a true statesman for his assiduity to his job and his country. If all of our reps approached their job with as much committment as Bob Graham did. the USA would not be in this mess.

[Duer 157099]

29. OCA or is that OCD?

But seriously, I wish more of these governmental employees in such positions of power would keep journals too.

I recently read Graham's book Intelligence Matters and highly recommend it to anyone who wants to get a good detailed look at how helpful those notes were.

[ColbertWatcher]

38. I believe they prefer to call themselves CDOs ...

... with the letters in alphabetical order.

j/k

[stlsaxman]

40. good one! hadn't heard that yet.

:spray:

[creeksneakers2]

33. Interesting that the destroyed interrogation tapes are mentioned

On that subject, the GOP accused the CIA of lying about briefing GOP members of Congress. I don't know why nobody brings this up.

NY Times 12/07/07

In his statement, General Hayden said leaders of Congressional oversight committees had been fully briefed about the existence of the tapes and told in advance of the decision to destroy them. But the two top members of the House Intelligence Committee in 2005 said Thursday that they had not been notified in advance of the decision to destroy the tapes.

A spokesman for Representative Peter Hoekstra, Republican of Michigan, who was the committee’s chairman between 2004 and 2006, said that Mr. Hoekstra was “never briefed or advised that these tapes existed, or that they were going to be destroyed.”

The spokesman, Jamal Ware, also said that Mr. Hoekstra “absolutely believes that the full committee should have been informed and consulted before the C.I.A. did anything with the tapes.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07intel.html?_r=1

Gingrich and others are making the case that its outrageous to say the CIA lied. But in Hoekstra's case the GOP did the same thing. And how can the GOP claim that the CIA is so honest about what occurred concerning torture, when we know the CIA destroyed the interrogation tapes? We also know those tapes were requested by the 9/11 Commission and weren't provided.

So the CIA lied and the GOP called them liars. Why the different standards now?

[Sandrine for you]

34. Woaw ! Thanks for that comment...devasting !

[symbolman]

36. We met Bob while filming at the Dem Convention in Boston

He walked past our outdoor lunch and we said howdy, he stopped. Talked bout taking back the media, and less than a week later we got the nicest letter thanking us for chatting, working on Media stuff, totally out of the blue..

I have Absolute Respect for the Man, and his word is Gold..

Try to remember that Panetta prefaced his statement against Pelosi with the word "Contemporaneous".. In other words they Do NOT have records, & are lying, nearly Admitting their statement IS Revisionism..

Think about that. A single word that changes the Entire Statement, to me an admission of either Guilt or Incompetence..

Proves to me that THEY Don't KNOW.. This is one of the reasons I believe Pelosi on this..

Also gives the CIA an OUT.. If found to be Wrong, they can say, "Hey.. We Said 'Contemporaneous'..."

Again, Bob's record keeping saves the day..

Graham Rules!!

[Overseas]

37. K&R!!

So glad more and more is coming to light.

[L. Coyote]

41. BIG NEWS: Congress already investigating CIA for misleadng in "documented" case.

MSNBS: Congress Investigating Documented CIA Lying
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x314073

Will Porter Goss be prosecuted for lying to Congress?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5671623