So having the gay is bad for good order and discipline... REALLY

[nadinbrzezinski]

so firing all these qualified people because they have the Gay is not a smidgen of a problem? Look folks we cannot wait for Congress to pass this, because truth be told it will not be done. It is one of those occasions when a President might just have to use this precious thing called an executive order. This is precisely what it took to desegregate the Armed forces... a signature on an executive order, by one President Truman.

Current policy is not workable, all know it. But it is time for the President to use that power of the executive and do what is right.

By the way, the Gay does not affect good order and discipline... just like being black didn't as well.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Proud to be the first to K&R!

[roguevalley]

27. bad for order. News to these to name just a few:

The Spartan military
Alexander the Great
THe Sacred Band of Thebes
Etc. to be continued ...

[derby378]

2. Think about all those poor drill instructors

If DADT is repealed, your DI can't very well haul off and call you a "twinkletoed cocksucker" during Basic Training, can he?

Yeah, I know. It's pathetic. The military should leave well enough alone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Having been one of those dreaded DI's.. (somewhere else) you really

don't need to scream those words to get your point across.

As is... under current regulations that is already illegal. So that would not be a change in policy.

[derby378]

9. I had heard that DIs had been reined in a bit concerning behavior towards recruits

I knew striking recruits was now off-limits, but I didn't know some of the salty talk was as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Yes it has, in fact recruits get stress chits... not shitting you here

One of the things my hubby, a retired USN Chief had ahem, concerns about. After all you cannot use them stress chits in the fleet, if you get my drift.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

13. They're not allowed to say shit like that anymore

[walldude]

3. Can't have the gay if you are on a Crusade to kill all the Muslims

that would be very un-Christian like...

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. But you could not have the black to go kill commies. serious that was

one of the arguments made back in the late 1940s.

Replace one group for the other.

I intend to call the WH tomorrow and point this out.

[cecilfirefox]

4. The President cannot use an executive order.

Unlike when Truman was President we actually have a federal law, otherwise known as the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. The Presidents power of executive order does not extend to overturning a law. As such, he can't use it, if he did the supreme court would over rule. I believe this is actually written in the constitution, but I can't reference the part right now.

It's ironic actually, Colin Powell supported DADT at that time period but he actually did not want it to become a law for just this reason. Had it just been a Department of Defense/Pentagon policy then the military could study it over time and make their own decision, not reliant on the congress. Subsequently then that would have given the President the authority at some point, if he or she so choose, to write an executive order and end it.

As it stands now the President does not have the ability to do what you described. Congress will have to repeal it, and then he can exert an executive order enshrining it. Then again, another President could come along and re-assert an executive order establishing it, which is just awful to think of, but at the point that could happen I imagine it'd have a terrible backlash and even the Republicans would avoid it.

Sorry. :/ Some things we shouldn't have to wait for, but we will. We will trudge on, fight on, and we'll see the end of this road at some point. In our lifetime. ^_^ I promise.

- Cecil

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Check your facts on the segregation of the Armed Forces

it was law, federal law.

Yes he can. And just like 1950 Congress can ask this to go to the USSC on an emergency hearing basis.

I suspect they'll look the other way, just like they did back then.

And I am sorry, I don't believe they will do a smidgen unless WE demand it.

[cecilfirefox]

8. Well, to be honest... If that was the case then I would like to know why the media has never-

mentioned executive order? I'm fairly certain this is the way it is, but I could be wrong. :/

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Here is a short history

http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/integrate/welcome.html

I once met a vet of the Korean war. He was AA. He went to Korea in a black unit, and he came home in an integrated unit. Even though it was against policy, he and his pals were spit upon by the good ol' boys... that is until they got shot at. Well, at that point the color of skin didn't matter. The harassment stopped

As to media. I wonder how many people even know that required an Executive Order, in and out of the Media circles.

[Thothmes]

17. Which Federal law segregated the armed services

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Part of the US Military, it was, iirc part of the UCMJ, which mind you

is federal law

By law you could NOT have mixed units

[cecilfirefox]

21. The Uniform Code of Military Justice as I understand it is it's own law actually. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. It is federal though, and subject to the congress

DADT is part of the UCMJ

[Thothmes]

26. Not part of the UCMJ

the UCMJ was passed by Congress in May of 1951. Presidents Truman's Executive order 9981, ending segregation was signed in July 1948. From what I have found, segragation of the armed services was not mandated by any law passed by Congress. It was however directed by the various policies of the armed services themselves. As such Truman's executive order was sufficient to end the practice, without having to go to Congress to change any law.

[ZombieHorde]

22. Study: Obama doesn’t need Congress to halt gay discharges

http://www.365gay.com/news/study-obama-doesnt-need-congress-to-halt-gay-discharges/">Study: Obama doesn’t need Congress to halt gay discharges

[Bluebear]

33. Sorry, you're wrong. Obama could suspend the firings TODAY.

[derby378]

11. What if you have the Goulet instead?

Does the Goulet affect good order and discipline, or should I try to pray the Goulet away?

I'm so conflicted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. pray that you will find the light my child

:hi:

[derby378]

15. Dingle-dangle dingle-dangle! Someone's calling you! Goulet!

Damn. I didn't try hard enough. Maybe I should watch more Rock Hudson films. :rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

16. Homophobia is bad for good order and discipline

And it's proven to be harmful to national security, especially in the areas of foreign-language translation and combat-ready troops.

[derby378]

18. Damn straight

We just lost one of our best fighter pilots because of it. Burns me up.

[Chulanowa]

20. I sometimes wonder...

I hear that the straight servicemembers are just as annoyed and upset about his policy as their fellows who are suffering from it. Has there ever been any attempt at solidarity? Am I goofy for wondering what would happen if whole units started, well, "acting gay" in protest of DADT?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. They are, but they really cannot

as that could be ... mutiny.

As my husband put it, DADT was used only to get rid of people who didn't want to be in the Navy, and had no other recourse.

Of course that is off the damn record.

[Touchdown]

25. It's not really a means of national defense.

It's a boy's club. Witness the high incidences of rape, or just plain sexual harassment when women have the absolute gall to enlist in combat jobs.

Gay men can't be allowed because the straight boys are afraid that we'd treat them like they treat women. It's always been that way.

[Raster]

28. I'm hearing the VILLAGE PEOPLE!

Where can you find pleasure
Search the world for treasure
Learn science technology
Where can you begin to make your dreams all come true
On the land or on the sea
Where can you learn to fly
Play in sports and skin dive
Study oceanography
Sign of for the big band
Or sit in the grandstand
When your team and others meet

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the navy
Come on now, people, make a stand
In the navy, in the navy
Can't you see we need a hand
In the navy
Come on, protect the motherland
In the navy
Come on and join your fellow man
In the navy
Come on people, and make a stand
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy)

They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit

If you like adventure
Don't you wait to enter
The recruiting office fast
Don't you hesitate
There is no need to wait
They're signing up new seamen fast
Maybe you are too young
To join up today
Bout don't you worry 'bout a thing
For I'm sure there will be
Always a good navy
Protecting the land and sea

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the navy
Come on now, people, make a stand
In the navy, in the navy
Can't you see we need a hand
In the navy
Come on, protect the motherland
In the navy
Come on and join your fellow man
In the navy
Come on people, and make a stand
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy)

They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit

Who me?

They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit

But, but but I'm afraid of water.
Hey, hey look
Man, I get seasick even watchin' it on TV!

They want you, they want you in the navy

Oh my goodness.
What am I gonna do in a submarine?

They want you, they want you in the navy

[Touchdown]

30. But... but.. The Village People ain't Queeuh!

:rofl:

[WillowTree]

29. Self-delete

[JitterbugPerfume]

31. you gay people

Just don't understand how skeered we are of you WE dont want to catch the GAY:hide: :rofl:

[Raster]

32. I don't know why not....your hair will become flawless, your fashion sense fabulous,

your taste superb, your body stunning and your sex life to die for!
There are, however, certain unpleasant side effects: track lights, white wine and quiche.

[Creideiki]

34. Repeal is lying around in committee

Here's the list of sponsors: (At least my congresscritter came on board--but after it was submitted. She wasn't on the original list.)

Rep. Ellen Tauscher
Cosponsors
Rep. Grace Napolitano
Rep. Gwen Moore
Rep. Edward Markey
Rep. Bob Filner
Rep. Timothy Bishop
Del. Donna Christensen
Rep. Bradley Miller
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee
Rep. Dennis Kucinich
Rep. Robert Scott
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy
Rep. Jerrold Nadler
Rep. James McGovern
Rep. John Tierney
Rep. Jared Polis
Rep. John Conyers
Rep. Raul Grijalva
Rep. Yvette Clarke
Rep. William Delahunt
Rep. Michael Arcuri
Rep. Eliot Engel
Rep. Michael Thompson
Rep. Nita Lowey
Del. Eleanor Norton
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Rep. Gregory Meeks
Rep. Robert Wexler
Rep. Sam Farr
Rep. Alcee Hastings
Rep. Kathy Castor
Rep. Gary Peters
Rep. Jackie Speier
Rep. Allyson Schwartz
Rep. Keith Ellison
Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
Rep. Jesse Jackson
Rep. Michael Capuano
Rep. Adam Smith
Rep. Adam Schiff
Rep. Anna Eshoo
Rep. Gary Ackerman
Rep. Diane Watson
Rep. Michael Michaud
Rep. Edolphus Towns
Rep. Diana DeGette
Rep. Rush Holt
Rep. Charles Gonzalez
Rep. Linda Sánchez
Rep. James McDermott
Rep. Chaka Fattah
Rep. Stephen Lynch
Rep. David Wu
Rep. Donald Payne
Rep. Zoe Lofgren
Rep. Laura Richardson
Rep. Doris Matsui
Rep. Fortney Stark
Rep. André Carson
Rep. Paul Tonko
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard
Rep. James Langevin
Rep. Nydia Velázquez
Rep. Robert Andrews
Rep. Loretta Sanchez
Rep. David Loebsack
Rep. Joe Courtney
Rep. Frank Pallone
Rep. Henry Johnson
Rep. Neil Abercrombie
Rep. Rosa DeLauro
Rep. John Dingell
Rep. Joseph Crowley
Rep. Donna Edwards
Rep. Kendrick Meek
Rep. Betty McCollum
Rep. Jane Harman
Rep. Lynn Woolsey
Rep. Steven Rothman
Rep. Barbara Lee
Rep. Chellie Pingree
Rep. Barney Frank
Rep. Tammy Baldwin
Rep. Victor Snyder
Rep. John Hall
Rep. Phil Hare
Rep. Anthony Weiner
Rep. Steve Israel
Rep. Carolyn Maloney
Rep. Maurice Hinchey
Rep. Louise Slaughter
Rep. Joe Sestak
Rep. Bobby Rush
Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick
Rep. Lloyd Doggett
Rep. Janice Schakowsky
Rep. José Serrano
Rep. Peter Welch
Rep. James Oberstar
Rep. William Clay
Rep. Russ Carnahan
Rep. Mazie Hirono
Rep. Rick Larsen
Rep. Mary Jo Kilroy
Rep. Jay Inslee
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen
Rep. Niki Tsongas
Rep. Steve Cohen
Rep. Albio Sires
Rep. Danny Davis
Rep. David Price
Rep. Brad Sherman
Rep. Betty Sutton
Rep. John Sarbanes
Rep. Norman Dicks
Rep. Michael Honda
Rep. Brian Higgins
Rep. Robert Brady
Rep. James Moran
Rep. Eddie Johnson
Rep. Susan Davis
Rep. Edward Pastor
Rep. Elijah Cummings
Rep. Earl Blumenauer
Rep. Eric Massa
Rep. John Lewis
Rep. Carol Shea-Porter
Rep. Patrick Kennedy
Rep. Shelley Berkley
Rep. Howard Berman
Rep. John Olver
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez
Rep. Michael Doyle
Rep. Lois Capps
Rep. Christopher Murphy
Rep. Brian Baird
Rep. Henry Waxman
Rep. Peter DeFazio
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver
Rep. William Pascrell
Rep. George Miller
Rep. Patrick Murphy