U.S. GPS system could fail next year

[Speck Tater]

http://www.techjournalsouth.com/news/article.html?item_id=7462

GPS system could fail by 2010, GAO report says
May 19, 2009
WASHINGTON, DC - The GPS system could fail as early as 2010 due to a lack of investment in the upkeep of GPS satellites, according to the U.S. government accountability office (GAO).

In a report to Congress, the GAO said it is uncertain whether the U.S. Air Force, which manages the system, can acquire new satellites in time to keep the system running properly.

Breakdown could result in black outs or incorrect information being delivered to cell phones, car and other GPS devices.

more at link.

[Mind_your_head]

1. good thing I didn't buy one of those gizmo's......GPS

I can still figure out how to get to the grocerary ;-) store ~ or wherever ~ "all by myself".

[ThomWV]

24. I've been using GPS since it replaced LORAN and those 'gizmos' are lifesavers

It is a very good system and in the air and on water (my major use) they are real lifesavers and I do not mean that metaphorically, I mean they save lives. Not only do they assist in avoidance of collision they are even more valuable in finding survivors. As for recreational use, I'll bet a lot less people get lost in the woods with them than without and I personally use a hand held in my truck when traveling to save on fuel costs by finding the most direct routes, watch my speed on the Interstates (the GPS gives accurate speed to within 0.1 mph) and of course keep near perfect time.

Of course if you can't understand their value, then there is no good reason for you to have one I suppose.

By the way, there isn't a snow ball's chance in hell the system is going to go down.

[Mind_your_head]

41. self-delete

[Johonny]

2. I'm pretty sure this isn't the USAF fault and

the estimate seems a little soon. We're still launch the latest block up there.

[smalll]

3. OMG - it would be worse than Y2K -- people would suddenly find it impossible to get anywhere!

People would die stranded out in the middle of nowhere. Families would be separated forever. Law and order would break down as people would get lost, never get back home again, and eventually just break into and take over any abandoned home they find (after all, there will be a lot of abandoned houses around, with all those other people who would be lost.)

If this terrible day ever comes to pass, just keep in mind: There are such things as "maps." I think Hagstrom's is still around. Also, remember that the sun rises in the east, sets in the west, and generally tilts down towards the south, at least in the winter.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. Recalculating route........

[iamthebandfanman]

7. recalculating it right to a paper map ;) n/t

[Blue_Tires]

40. WIN

this is all i've ever needed:

[Marr]

31. I would buy one of those GPS systems if I could replace the voice with

an irate Sean Connery voice.

*miss the turn*

"ACH! Now ya've gonan' done it, ya jackass! Oh, fine! Doin' my math ALL OVER again now, because Mr. "Blaze a Foockin TRAIL" can't take directions!"

BING!

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. I found the next turn and YOU LOST IT... n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. We laugh when she says that... She sounds so exasperated. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Ah does that mean all them lazy rescue workers will have to

learn how to read a map and an old-fashioned compass? Was talking to my former partner, I emphasized map readying skills, in the early days of GPS units... ah back to basics

On a more serious note though... the net is basic for navigation of planes, ships and of course the military.

Oh and the Europeans were putting their own net up... would be ironic... hey guys... can we, pretty please?

[Ghost Dog]

12. Galileo: Europe's new satellite navigation system

* In development
* First test satellite operating successfully since late 2005
* Second test satellite launched April 2008
* Full operational capability planned for 2013

Galileo is a new satellite navigation system being developed by the European Space Agency (ESA) and the European Commission. Galileo is designed to provide the whole planet with a highly accurate, guaranteed global positioning system under civilian control.

...

Featuring 30 satellites and a ground support network, Galileo is being designed to offer users satellite navigation with an accuracy of less than one metre. Unlike current navigation systems, such as GPS, Galileo will provide a guaranteed service under all but the most extreme circumstances. This will make it suitable for applications where safety is critical. For example, it could be used to land aircraft.

/... http://www.bnsc.gov.uk/5649.aspx

[Canuckistanian]

17. And GLONASS, the Russian system

Development on the GLONASS began in 1976, with a goal of global coverage by 1991. Beginning on 12 October 1982, numerous rocket launches added satellites to the system until the constellation was completed in 1995. Following completion, the system rapidly fell into disrepair with the collapse of the Russian economy. Beginning in 2001, Russia committed to restoring the system, and in recent years has diversified, introducing the Indian government as a partner, and accelerated the program with a goal of restoring global coverage by 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

And then there's the Chinese COMPASS system, but it's still experimental at this stage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMPASS_navigation_system

[bigtree]

20. all of that designed to supercede the control of the American system

Europe, China, and others invested. The biggest concern for the U.S. government is for the military applications of the system. We always worried that the 'enemy' could disable our system in a time of war. The entire space-weapon program is predicated on the prospect of defending the satellites. It's amazing to find the system in such disrepair, but typical if you consider the cynical way that the Bush administration regarded their PNAC-driven, political opposition to the GLONASS as sufficient.

[Canuckistanian]

21. The main concern for the rest of the world is that it's US military controlled

The US has always reserved the right to turn the system off or to obfuscate the signal in times of war or emergency.

The Canadian military, for example, NEVER uses GPS on mission-critical equipment. Even the military aircraft use TACAN for navigation.

And that's the reason for the interest in Galileo, too. I was involved with the development of the first combined GPS/Galileo receiver chip and it's probably where the global locating industry is investing these days.

[anigbrowl]

6. It would hurt the economy badly

People joke about it but GPS is seriously useful. A simple example is that we have electronic displays at bus shelters in San Francisco, which tell you when the next bus will arrive. I use it (indirectly) all the time to plan bus trips and the like. Commercial delivery services etc make heavy use of it too.

[medeak]

8. OMG hubby is addicted to GPS

am not kidding...he's my navigator while I drive all over N. America..this will totally destroy him.

[opihimoimoi]

9. WTH did we use prior to GPS? I guess its back to the Omega system

[MercutioATC]

10. LOTS of new approaches would be unusable...

...and forget about RVSM.

[Angleae]

15. Why would RVSM be affected.

It's altitude based using on-board air-data computers, not GPS.

[MercutioATC]

30. How embarassing

I was a lead instructor for RVSM implementation....

You're right, of course. The "GPS requirement" is the GMU used for certification, not the equipment necessary for RVSM flight.

[Fumesucker]

11. LORAN?

OMNIRANGE?

[opihimoimoi]

18. My unnerstanding is OMEGA superceded Loran....both land based

both using pulses on known frequencies but Omega was very powerful with long range

[Fumesucker]

19. I bow to your superior knowledge..

I haven't paid attention to this stuff in a long time.

[opihimoimoi]

22. Mostly navigators from the 60's(LORAN) and the late 80's (OMEGA)know this stuff

Loran lasted only a short time...

OMEGA too....

GPS outdated them but therein lies a prob....maintenence and replacement...

[Winterblues]

26. Haven't most Loran stations been shut down?

And LORAN is not effective in inside waters or land anyway.

[Angleae]

16. Actually, Inertial Reference Systems.

Which large planes still use (737 or larger, sometimes coupled with GPS).

[armyowalgreens]

13. I guess it's back to triangulation...

Don't go anywhere your cell phone doesn't get reception.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

14. Thankfully I'm a navigator

I knew I'd find some use for the 5,000 hours I spent flying as an Air Force navigator. Time to dust off the old sextant, H.O. 249 tables, plotter and dividers. Everything that's old is new again.

[ShortnFiery]

27. Some of us couldn't find our way out of a wet paper bag.

You may call us "Directionally Challenged." :silly:

I came in from the Fort Lewis Orienteering Course the THIRD from the last in the company. :blush:

They had to send troops out to snag the last one.

[bobbert]

23. I don't believe it

I think they just want more money. There are so many satellites up there and all you need are 3 of them to locate your position. I think that is their worst-case scenario and the odds of it happening are .0000001%

[ShortnFiery]

25. Nooo!

I would constantly be lost without TIMMY, i.e., my Tom-Tom.

[Winterblues]

28. If GPS systems went down we couldn't guide our missiles so I doubt they are going to go down.

It is all hype to squeeze out more funding. GPS is absolutely vital to the military and in fact now all airlines throughout the world.

[bdab1973]

35. The military doesn't need GPS to drop bombs...

In fact we're probably still the only major flying organization that practices flying without using GPS...

[Winterblues]

37. I would bet every single military aircraft is fitted with GPS

While it is not essential to navigate by it is pretty much depended upon by all pilots in this day and age. Planes are far more suseptible to anti aircraft fire than are missles and more humans are at risk not to mention being able to locate with pin point accuracy their targets..No GPS will not be allowed to go down for lack of funding..Ain't going to happen.

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. "fitted with GPS"

Um, what does that mean, exactly? Ever heard of INS?

[Marr]

29. I had one of those when I was in Costa Rica last time. Changes everything.

The streets don't have names in Costa Rica, so if you ask someone for directions they'll give you a very organic (and impossible to follow) guide to getting where you're going. Something along the lines of, "go up this street until you see an orange tree in a clearing. Then make a left at the next dirt road-- not the next paved road, the next DIRT road. Go up that road until the rocks are white and..."

With a GPS I was able to get everywhere I wanted to go, for once. lol. Loved it.

Back home... I don't really see the need. It's not hard to read a map.

[MercutioATC]

32. Did you get an add-on Costa Rica map?

I'll be down there in a year or two and I'll be in some pretty remote locations. I understand that there are a couple of companies that offer Costa Rica maps that are more detailed.

[Marr]

33. You can get the unit from the car rental place. They'll stick it in your

car and calibrate it for you.

They supplied me with a Magellan system there, and it had *everything* on it, right down to the little dirt roads branching out from communities out in the boonies-- on the eastern and southeastern coasts, which is where I was mostly.

[MercutioATC]

34. I'll be hiking and using a handheld, but that's good information.

Good to see they have detailed maps of more out-of-the-way places.

[Marr]

36. Have a good time!

Hiking there sounds like a blast. The rainforests are unbelievable. Just full of life.

[MercutioATC]

38. I've been there. I'll be scouting locations for retirement in 7 years.

Osa Peninsula...I'm basing out of Dos Brazos and exploring.

[L0oniX]

39. Oh Noes ...what will Miss South Carolina Lauren Catlin do now?

:shrug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. Yeah, I'm guessing it won't. Fifty bucks to Skinner's favorite charity if it does.

Whatever did we do without GPS in the first place?

My Dad was a Navy Quartermaster from '53 to '63 and he can navigate by the stars. Get this... he still has the sextant he used when he was onboard the USS Bremerton.

I'm still betting the system won't fail. And if it does? My dad can step in and make everything OK. It's what he does... In MY experience anyway...

[Karenina]

46. What a nice post!

Give him a hug from across the Big Pond. :hug: