Bill Clinton: A Disgraceful George W Bush Enabler

[Bragi]

I am enraged that Bill Clinton will be coming next week to the city of my birth -- Toronto -- to participate in a staged "conversation" with -- get this -- George W Bush -- "to discuss the challenges facing the world in the 21st Century".

Right. Isn't W just the man we'd all want to hear from on this?

For me, I've never been as critical as some about Clinton's lucrative business, ah, amorality since leaving the White House.

This latest caper however -- wherein he is openly using his exalted status to help a despicable war criminal try to rehabilitate his international reputation -- is truly disgusting.

I wish all the best to those organizing protests in Toronto next week against these two shameless U.S exports.

See http://wmtc.blogspot.com/2009/04/bush-and-clinton-to-visit-toronto.html

Wish I could be there, but I can't.

I hope Clinton enjoys the money he makes from this travesty. He certainly deserves lasting ignominy by fronting for Bush, and he'll get it from me.

- B

[ccharles000]

1. I like bill

[EPIC1934]

3. CLINTONS IN PERSPECTIVE

PLEASE everyone read Partners in Power by Roger Morris. Published in 95 it is more relevent right now than almost any political book. Borad historical outline of dems of last 50 years and how Clintons fit in, I promise you you dont know most of this stuff. Increbible book. Clintons are the best Republicans of 20th century.

[spanone]

8. no, the bu$h*s are the best republican/criminals of the 20th century

[GoneOffShore]

10. Bill was the best Republican President since Eisenhower.

[wyldwolf]

14. it was stupid when non-Democrat Mike Malloy first said it and it's still stupid

[Canuckistanian]

41. Malloy didn't originally say it - Alan Greenspan did

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1898420&mesg_id=1898420

[PassingFair]

43. He's PART right, Canuck.....Greenspan is a non-democrat....

:rofl:

There is a one-percent chance that
Bill will nail Bush to the wall, so
I'll hold back on my scath until
I see the video.

:hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

81. Keep your powder dry!

[wyldwolf]

68. and it's still stupid.

[John Q. Citizen]

83. The reason you dislike it so much is there is truth in it. Clinton and the bushes are very close

friends.

They party together.

And they share a common world view.

[wyldwolf]

86. I dislike it because it's stupid and ignorant

[John Q. Citizen]

89. but you agree that they are friends, party together and share a common world view?

OK.

So I'm not all wrong :)

[wyldwolf]

90. As much as ex-presidents and heads of state do

That's something heretic hunters on the left and the right have never been able to wrap their simpleton thought processes around. Government is not a blood sport.

[John Q. Citizen]

93. You sound bitter. And angry.

At least Bill knows how to party hardy with a war criminal and take no prisoners!

[wyldwolf]

94. LOL! That's funny

A bitter, angry, frothing at the mouth "progressive" accusing someone of being bitter. :rofl:

[John Q. Citizen]

96. I said you sounded bitter, not that you are bitter. Only you could say about that.

But seeing that emocon roll around laughing tells me the emocon is having a great time, like Bill and bush on a road trip. Or like Hope and Crosby. Or Cheech and Chong!

[wyldwolf]

97. eventually it all becomes about semantics with mindsets like yours

Your avatar says you voted. It must have been for a third party candidate.

[John Q. Citizen]

98. Is Bill Cheech or Chong? I bet he voted for bush.

[wyldwolf]

99. irrelevancy is the next step after semantics

Highly predictable.

The next step is to feign ignorance.

[John Q. Citizen]

100. At least you don't have to feign it, is what I'm thinking. Bill really was the greatest Republican

President of the 20th century.

Even if you don't know it.

See ya! You may have the "Last Word!"

[wyldwolf]

102. Yet, you're demonstrating it.

It really is some odd revisionist mentality "progressives" have going on.

[wyldwolf]

101. duplicate

.

[bertman]

135. wyldwolf, it may not be "blood sport" in D.C., but in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine,

Guatemala, Nigeria, Somalia and hundreds of other places on the planet it's a fucking bloody massacre.

You act like these people's actions are just something for TeeVee. They are for real and harm millions of people around the world and are now harming Americans.

For them, in their beach homes, mountain homes, D.C. apartments, Carribean retreats, and European vacation spas this is all about "policy" and decision-making, and investments. For the working class, the vast majority of humanity, this is about survival and the basics.

[lazyriver]

163. How the hell do I rec this reply? Well said.

[RaleighNCDUer]

148. How many dead in Iraq?

NOT a blood sport?

[Jim Sagle]

151. But w's not an ex-president. He's a piece of ex-unelected filth.

[Enthusiast]

158. +1, Jim.

First and foremost the murderous draft dodging lying piece of shit didn't even win a presidential election.

[blm]

173. and that unelected filth fr 2001-2006 had full support and received vigorous defense from....who?

Very PUBLIC defense, I might add.

[quakerboy]

152. My Republican father said it years before that

I remember hearing it as early as 94 from him.

[GoneOffShore]

50. I'm not saying that it was a bad thing.

I'm just saying that we need to recognize him for what he was.

And interestingly, I never heard Malloy say it. I've only heard or read Malloy six or seven times and was always struck with his hectoring style. Good voice though.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[John Q. Citizen]

84. Ralph Nader.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Captain Hilts]

19. And Obama's on the same path. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. He certainly is. nt

[Cha]

122. No, he's not..that's

just stupid.

President Obama is nothing like Bill Clinton..I don't care if it makes you feel better or not.

[Beacool]

143. Shhhhhhhhhhhh

Let them live their delusions for a while longer. Let's see how long we'll be in Afghanistan.........

;)

[RufusTFirefly]

42. I agree. If you view him through that lens, he's not as disappointing or enraging

NAFTA, Welfare Reform, DOMA, Telecom Act of 1996, etc., etc.

[femrap]

55. Amen and Awomen

to that!!!

[emsimon33]

117. I agree. In fact, he might have been better that Eisenhower in some ways

[MannyGoldstein]

120. Eisenhower Was To The Left Of The Clintons

91% top federal tax rate!

[Enthusiast]

159. Today Eisenhower would

be characterized by the Reich Wing as a socialist left wing extremist.

[pnwmom]

128. Yeah, the trash talking book that couldn't even get basic facts right . . .

like the date of Hillary's birth.

You're right, it is incredible. As in "without credibility."

[defendandprotect]

138. Thank you . . . I'll try to catch up with it --

:)

[ShortnFiery]

153. Thanks for this recommendation EPIC1934.

Yes, I will find: "Partners in Power" by Roger Morris. :thumbsup:

[Mari333]

2. Politicians are like Doctors , they have

a special club where they dont tattle on each other and look out for each other/
you and I dont belong.

[Echo In Light]

9. "America has one political party with two right-wings." Gore Vidal

[City Lights]

4. Your link isn't working for me. nt

[Bragi]

12. Fixed it!

Thanks for letting me know.

http://wmtc.blogspot.com/2009/04/bush-and-clinton-to-visit-toronto.html

[City Lights]

16. Thanks for fixing.

:hi:

[wyldwolf]

5. I wish I had a front row seat (and I'm glad I don't live in your world) :)

[Captain Hilts]

6. GWB will look like an idiot next to Bubba. Since when is debate a 'disgrace'?

I've no doubt Bubba will be polite, but the contrast will be a stark one.

All polls showed that Clinton would have beaten Bush in 2000, Gore in 2000 or both of them in 2000. There was never any 'Clinton fatigue'. Another fallacy the RNC made up and the media ate with a spoon.

[Orsino]

15. The contrast would be so obvious...

...that I can't see Bush agreeing to it without approving a script beforehand. Or has he grown so disconnected that he believes he can talk statesman without a radio in his ear?

But shame on Clinton for helping to polish this turd.

[Bragi]

17. This isn't a debate, its a PR exercise

The important (and disgusting) thing about this event isn't what either former President will say, it is that it is an obvious PR exercise by the Bushians intended to rehabilitate their disgraced former President. Clinton is just acting as a (no doubt well-paid) front man and enabler.

To be clear, I am not in any way a lifelong critic of Clinton. But I wish him nothing but troubles and grief from here on in. For me, he has crossed the line, big time.

So America now has but one living former President of merit, a man who has tirelessly served peace and the public good for almost 30 years since leaving the White House.

Long live Jimmy Carter!

Bill Clinton, go fuck yourself.

- B

[The Hope Mobile]

130. Yup! Debating him is giving him credence and that's Bullshit.

It seriously makes Clinton look complicit. The relationship Bill and Poppy have is NOT within the range of normal for ex-presidents especially given that Clinton has to know all about the BFEE.

[blm]

31. What would they debate about? Clinton HELPED Bush sell his decision to invade Iraq and defended Bush

VIGOROUSLY in high profile interviews throughout his summer2004 book tour.

Do any of you think Bush doesn't KNOW how much Clinton helped him? Do any of you think Clinton went entirely on his own to other world leaders and DC Dem lawmakers and advised them to support Bush?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

157. Exactly

That will be a pretty boring debate because they will be agreeing with each other the entire time. Clinton attacked Iraq with sanctions, Bush with rockets, managed to achieve the same objective, dead Iraqi's.

[patrice]

7. !

:puke:

[KharmaTrain]

11. Now How Would You Feel If The Big Dog...

...gets little boots to admit he issued orders to torture or wiretap? Or gets him to throw members of his regime under the bus? Or just turns him inside out? Now I wouldn't pay a dime to see boooshie unless it was at the Hague. However, I'd be curious how the manchild handles this situation.

I find it very interesting that booooshie has to run to Canada, again, to be seen publicly. Ya know he wouldn't dare set foot on a stage in New York, LA or even DC. Seems junior at least gets the hint he's as popular as Swine Flu.

[Captain Hilts]

18. It's really weird that GWB would to Tee Oh as it is VERY liberal, and likes Bubba a lot. nt

[Bragi]

22. They're just "testing the waters"

Bush's first "international" outing post-White House was to Calgary, which is actually a suburb of Houston, so it was a very safe place for him to launch his new self.

Toronto is quite anti-Bush, and he couldn't win a council seat there if he ran, but it's also a big city, and most people couldn't care less now about him now.

But it will help Bush to "test the waters" and help establish a pattern of traveling outside the US without getting slapped with war crimes warrants.

I have to admit that, from a PR standpoint, getting Clinton to front the event is quite smart.

I wonder how much blood money Bill is getting from the Bushites for his help? I'd love to see a Congressional committee look into that (not that that will happen, of course.)

- B

[Captain Hilts]

24. Oooooh, you think there's a dark conspiracy here that needs congressional investigation?

Noooow I get it.

[Bragi]

27. Not at all

I just want to see Clinton justifiably humiliated for this unseemly cash-grab.

- B

[Echo In Light]

59. Plausible, realistic postulation

[pokercat999]

21. The big dog PILE will do no such thing, I predict he will

go out of his way to actually protect the war criminal.

[KharmaTrain]

26. And People Will Want Their Money Back.

Again...I wouldn't spend a dime on this. I suspect this is part of the "Speakers Tour" that is also paying Rove and other war criminals to "debate" that turns into an hour of talking points and spin.

boooooosh is so tone deaf and outright stupid, there's little Clinton can do to keep him from sticking his foot in his big mouth. He may try to bail him out, but damage will be done. I'm curious (as in watching a good car wreck) to see how boooshie "wings it"...if he'll fly without a net.

[peace13]

23. Big dog is there for a puppy show.

He will be trying to keep * on a leash, trot him around the ring and return home with the prize. Their favorite...Money.

[merh]

53. That won't happen

Remember Clinton had a extraordinary rendition program.

[blm]

115. Why would Bill do that? If he was against Bush's policies he would've fought them

at the time....but, he supported Bush on his terrorism and Iraq war strategies and advised other world leaders and DC Dems to do the same.

Bill was Bush's best salesman and defender.

[wyldwolf]

13. John Kerry: A Disgraceful George W Bush Enabler

US President George W Bush and his challenger, John Kerry, face each other in St Louis, Missouri, for the second of their three televised debates on Friday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3725542.stm

[Captain Hilts]

20. And Kerry should have called GWB and Cheney draft dodgers right then and there. He held back. nt

[blm]

33. Clinton would have? BTW - Kerry challenged Bush to a separate debate of their services

as he noted that Bush was HIDING behind the swiftliiars, and said so in front of the Firefighters Convention.

No Dem nominee EVER hit that hard and that is exactly why the corporate media refused to broadcast Kerry's speech and few even reported it occurred in their news cycle.

[EPIC1934]

70. Kerry Kept The Powder dry.. AND COMPLETELY UNUSED

John Kerry kept the Poweder dry .... and completely unused. How the Democrats managed to lose-give up that one has got to make any sentient organism think system, not just individual.

[blm]

116. Baloney - that's revisionism. You aren't familiar with Kerry's attacks on Bush-Cheney-Rummy because

there were no bigname Dems willing to go on TV and back him in those attacks as they were standing with Bush and supporting his decisions on terrorism and Iraq war, and against Kerry's criticisms of those decisions.

[burning rain]

146. C'mon.

Kerry won all three of their debates and absolutely devoured Bush in two of them. You really should watch them again.

[karynnj]

169. BS - go back and read the debates or watch the video

59 % of the country on the eve of the election said the country was doing fairly well or very well. The economy was still in reasonably good shape (though there were pockets where it was bad). We were only a year and a half into the war and the majority thought that it could still be "won". (Obama had 80% saying the country was going in the wrong direction.)

Do you remember Kerry speaking DAILY of the KNOWN ammo dumps being left ungarded for months and the ammo being a source for the ieds killing and maiming "our kids"? That is accusing the President of gross incompetence. In addition, he constantly said it was not a war of last resort - meaning to most Christians that it was not a just war.There was NO politician hitting Bush harder in the general election. That is atypical. Look at 2008 - it was not Obama making the toughest attacks for his team in either the primaries or general election - it was surrogates - notably Kerry who did. In 2004, it should have been other Democrats and his extremely vain VP out there fighting. The Presidential camdidate has to remain Presidential - Kerry did as much as possible.

[karynnj]

167. NO one who didn't vote for Kerry would have been impressed by that, though it would have lost votes

of many.

[blm]

35. Kerry actually DEBATED Bush. Clinton spent 2001-2005 supporting and DEFENDING Bush's war decisions

publically, even against the Dem nominee's criticisms.

[wyldwolf]

37. but he debated him, which is the OPs gripe.

[blm]

46. No, the OP said Clinton will be REHABBING the dictatortot. Clinton won't be debating W, he supported

his decisions on terrorism and Iraq war and Bush is acutely aware that Clinton stood with him and against the nominee of the Dem party, vigorously defending Bush's decisions in high profile interviews throughout his summer 2004 book tour.

When did THAT ever happen in the history of elections, that the last Dem president would vigorously defend the GOP president so publically on the biggest issues of the election?

[wyldwolf]

61. no, he said a "staged 'conversation'" which is a debate

[Bluenorthwest]

67. A staged conversation is not a debate

Such events are tightly controlled via contracts. All parties have rules to keep. If forbidden subjects are spoken of, or the wrong framing used, the producers will have to pay fines to the celebrities being interviewed. They also have agreements regarding the other, as in, if he mentions X he pays me $$ from his end. See?
Not only is this not a debate, it is not really a conversation, it is a 'staged conversation'. And in this case, clearly advertized as such for damn good reasons. Because it will not be a free wheeling exchange, and it can not be sold as such. It is 'staged' which means unscripted but highly controlled.
Words have meanings, and events have definitions. Contractual definitions. This is a business deal, not a debate.
I've seen such staged conversations and interviews that were valuable events. But they sure as hell were not debates. They were shows.

[blm]

71. HAHAH...staged conversations are NOT debates. Besides, Bush USED Clinton to defend his policies

on terrorism and Iraq war, on top of the fact Clinton helped Bush SELL his decision to DC Dems who trusted Bill's analysis of the privileged intel he had access to during his presidency. If Bush was lying........

[KoKo]

133. blm....."Beatles, "Come Together Right Now...Over Me.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd38yrWx2o0

[L. Coyote]

127. Al Gore debated Bush.

[The Hope Mobile]

131. Because he had to in order to win the race . . . which he did.

I seriously doubt he would now.

[L. Coyote]

137. Good point! He should debate Bill, they'd sell more tickets for sure.

:rofl:

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Candidate Kerry debated his opponent

and you are trying to equate that to a paid non debate, a 'converstation' according to the promoters, with no election involved? A debate and a converstaion are two different things. An election and a self promotion tour are also different things.
Are you really seriously trying to say that official Presidetial election debates are the same as a paid appearance in another country produced for profit? Really?

[Forkboy]

156. Yes, he really is. The OP got under his skin pretty good.

[nichomachus]

51. A truly stupid comparison

Actually, beyond stupid

[wyldwolf]

62. A truly stupid reply -

Actually, beyond stupid

[frylock]

69. please

[karynnj]

166. How on earth do you equate the Presidential debates to this? You have no shame

I think the OP is premature - it depends what happens in Toronto. There is NO reason to attack Kerry - because someone (who may or may not repect Kerry) citicized Clinton. Do you honestly think that he should have refused the Presidential debates - that helped him almost win - rather than losing by about 10 points? THAT WOULD BE REALLY SMART.

[D23MIURG23]

171. Disingenuous much? n/t

[mod mom]

172. Follow the Money: HOW JOHN KERRY BUSTED THE TERRORISTS' FAVORITE BANK:

How John Kerry busted the terrorists' favorite bank.

By David Sirota and Jonathan Baskin
Two decades ago, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) was a highly respected financial titan. In 1987, when its subsidiary helped finance a deal involving Texas oilman George W. Bush, the bank appeared to be a reputable institution, with attractive branch offices, a traveler's check business, and a solid reputation for financing international trade. It had high-powered allies in Washington and boasted relationships with respected figures around the world.
All that changed in early 1988, when John Kerry, then a young senator from Massachusetts, decided to probe the finances of Latin American drug cartels. Over the next three years, Kerry fought against intense opposition from vested interests at home and abroad, from senior members of his own party; and from the Reagan and Bush administrations, none of whom were eager to see him succeed.

By the end, Kerry had helped dismantle a massive criminal enterprise and exposed the infrastructure of BCCI and its affiliated institutions, a web that law enforcement officials today acknowledge would become a model for international terrorist financing. As Kerry's investigation revealed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, BCCI was interested in more than just enriching its clients--it had a fundamentally anti-Western mission. Among the stated goals of its Pakistani founder were to "fight the evil influence of the West," and finance Muslim terrorist organizations. In retrospect, Kerry's investigation had uncovered an institution at the fulcrum of America's first great post-Cold War security challenge.



More than a decade later, Kerry is his party's nominee for president, and terrorist financing is anything but a back-burner issue. The Bush campaign has settled on a new strategy for attacking Kerry: Portray him as a do-nothing senator who's weak on fighting terrorism. "After 19 years in the Senate, he's had thousands of votes, but few signature achievements," President Bush charged recently at a campaign rally in Pittsburgh; spin that's been echoed by Bush's surrogates, conservative pundits, and mainstream reporters alike, and by a steady barrage of campaign ads suggesting that the one thing Kerry did do in Congress was prove he knew nothing about terrorism. Ridiculing the senator for not mentioning al Qaeda in his 1997 book on terrorism, one ad asks: "How can John Kerry win a war if he doesn't know the enemy?"

-SNIP

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html

ALSO FROM THE ARTICLE:

In 1990, when the Bush administration gave the bank a minor slap on the wrist for its money laundering practices, Kerry went on national television to slam the decision.

Kerry's record in the BCCI affair, of course, contrasts sharply with Bush's. The current president's career as an oilman was always marked by the kind of insider cronyism that Kerry resisted. Even more startling, as a director of Texas-based Harken Energy, Bush himself did business with BCCI-connected institutions almost at the same time Kerry was fighting the bank. As The Wall Street Journal reported in 1991, there was a "mosaic of BCCI connections surrounding since George W. Bush came on board." In 1987, Bush secured a critical $25 million-loan from a bank the Kerry Commission would later reveal to be a BCCI joint venture. Certainly, Bush did not suspect BCCI had such questionable connections at the time. But still, the president's history suggests his attacks on Kerry's national-security credentials come from a position of little authority.

AND FURTHER:

The Abu Nidal link man for the BCCI accounts was an Iraqi named Samir Najmeddin or Najmedeen. Throughout the 80s, BCCI had set up millions of dollars worth of letters of credit for Najmeddin, largely for arms deals with Iraq. Qassem later told reporters, and swore in an affidavit for investigators, that Najmeddin was often accompanied by an American, whom Qassem subsequently identified as Marc Rich, a close friend of Bill Clinton's.

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bank:of:Credit:and:Commerce:International.html

SO BILL CLINTON IS CONNECTED TO BCCI THROUGH MARC RICH, BUT ALSO HIS INITIAL FINANCIER JACKSON STEPHENS:

Jackson Stephens is credited with helping B.C.C.I. enter the American banking industry. Jackson Stephens, Chairman of the Board of Stephens Inc., was an active founding partner of WTI and was the broker for the B.C.C.I.-connected Union Bank of Switzerland rescue of a Harken Energy project that George W. Bush (son of President Bush) was involved with in 1987. The same B.C.C.I. Swiss bank is co-financing WTI. WTI’s partner, Waste Technologies, Inc., is wholly owned by Stephens Inc. Excerpts from a lengthy New York Post report of 2-2-92 on some of Jackson Stephens other involvements with B.C.C.I.: (For a copy of this report send a SASE to Waste Not..) ***Jackson Stephens, a Little Rock, Arkansas billionaire, “brokered the 1970s deals in which BCCI officials secretly acquired control of two American banks now at the center of the scandal. The banks - First American Bankshares and the National Bank of Georgia - were used as a financial clearinghouse by a collection of world’s most dastardly crooks, drug dealers, dictators and spies.” ***Jackson Stephens, and his son Warren, have a “privately held investment firm ranks among the top 10 in the nation.” ***“Although Bert Lance, the former White House Budget Director, is linked to helping BCCI get started with its secret acquisition of First America Bankshares -the Washington, D.C. banking institution at the center of the scandal- it was, according to court documents, Jackson Stephens who brought everyone together. Indeed, BCCI might have never gotten the toehold it needed in America to run its corrupt business if it were not for Stephens efforts...Lance was introduced to BCCI’s founder - Agha Hasan Abedi - by Stephens within weeks of the Georgia financier’s departure from the Carter administration 1977...Even before Lance left his government position, Stephens was helping to broker the sale of Lance’s National Bank of Georgia to another controversial figure, Ghaith Pharaon. A Saudi billionaire, Pharaon was acting as a front man for Abedi...Lance and Stephens are reported to have made a fortune as a result of their involvement with BCCI...”

-SNIP
http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/wn186.htm

Jackson Stephens raised at least $100,000 for Bill Clinton's first Presidential campaign (Source: Seattle Times, November 6, 1993)

Stephens "extended a $3.5 million line of credit to campaign through the Worthen Bank, which is partly owned by the Stephens family. The Clinton campaign deposited up to $55 million in federal election funds in this bank." (Source: The Nation)

[deaniac21]

25. Big Dog is close to all of the Bush family. Former presidents

find it difficult to mingle with the common folk. Jimmy Carter is the only exception I've ever seen to this rule but he can't even get along with his own people.

[snot]

28. I'd like to believe his earlier intentions were good, but he has supported W. throughout --

makes me want to vomit.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glitch]

29. If someone asks them both to justify their bank/insurance/financial deregulation it could be very

good. And if someone asks them both to justify their actions on Iraq it could be even better.

If those questions aren't asked then the "debate" and their participation will most likely result in self-satire.

[Echo In Light]

32. No and no. Double Plus Un-good

;)

...oh, there'll be some safe, under-hand-lobbed softball question re "the decision to go into Iraq," or some other sanitized, intentionally-missing-the-mark version of it directed at Bush, which will of course yield a lame, deceitful response that most of the people in the crowd will nod along to and agree with.

[glitch]

54. Sweet self-satire. Very subtle, exquisite in its surreality. :)

We don't even have to rent Brazil or read Kafka, it now comes to us free-flowing via the corporate media, with a serious face.
Learn to love it like a Republican, ignore it like a Democrat or go quite, quite mad.
:hi:

[book_worm]

36. If Bill will actually confront W on his crimes then I will applaud him, but I don't see it coming.

[blm]

38. W is acutely aware that Bill helped SELL Iraq war for him to other world leaders and to the DC Dems

who trusted Bill was being truthful with them about the need to go into Iraq based on what he knew about Iraq intel from his privileged access.

W is also acutely aware that Bill helped rehab his Poppy's image and legacy and can be trusted to do his best to rehab Bush2.

[RufusTFirefly]

47. Yes. Don't forget Operation Desert Fox in 1998

That bombing of Iraq occurred under the Big Dawg's watch and it disrupted the UN inspections and ultimately led to the current illegal invasion and occupation.
It's also the root of the canard that Saddam Hussein "kicked out the inspectors." He didn't.
They were warned by the US to get out before the bombing commenced.

[merh]

60. The continuation of the "no fly zones" that were violations that

were considered illegal by the UN - that were considered the acts of aggression that poppy, bill and babybush all claimed Saddam was responsible for. Those illegal "no fly zones" were used to give cause for war, when the UN didn't buy it, they went for "Saddam has WMDs".

[Echo In Light]

82. AGGRESSION

[nashville_brook]

88. also can't forget Clinton's willful ignoring of Iran-Contra -- n/t

[Wednesdays]

39. Acutally, I hope the two of them make lots of appearances together

The Rhodes Scholar vs. the drunken frat boy. People will sort of notice the difference, don'tcha think?

They may very well even have to carry the latter up to the stage.

[book_worm]

40. Except the Rhodes Scholar will go out of his way to protect W like he did with Poppy.

Remember Bill is the son that Poppy wished he had.

[blm]

49. Drunken frat boy was smart enough to get the Rhodes Scholar to sell Iraq war for him

and to use his summer2004 book tour to defend the drunken frat boy's strategy on terrorism and Iraq war in high profile interviews, even against the criticisms of the Dem nominee, John Kerry, a war hero and the top lawmaker in DC for uncovering terrorism and government corruption.

[glitch]

57. Drunken frat boy is clever in a low cunning street thug kind of way, but it was Poppy who made that

connection for him.

[NightWatcher]

44. the old golfing buddies are going on tour again to make a few bucks

[dysfunctional press]

48. when clinton was president, he was a disgraceful repug enabler- so what's new..?

:shrug:

[polmaven]

52. Oh, God...

Not another Bill Clinton is the root of all evil thread! :boring:

[HopeOverFear]

56. I love what Letterman said about this last night:

"Nothing like a presidential debate that doesn't count"

:rofl:

[Cha]

123. Really..who

gives a shit?

[sammythecat]

58. I don't like this idea either

Bush should be shunned. I mean, what the hell more does a guy gotta do to get ostracized? Really.

Also, I simply can not imagine this "conversation". Makes me think of William F. Buckley having a discussion with that 12yr old kid that got dragged down the hall. Surreal.

[blindpig]

63. One hand washes the other. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

64. He can't seem to stay away from that evil family, can he? nt

[mdmc]

65. Carter was the last decent man to hold the White House

Triangulation "middle way" dogma will be exposed. Hopefully AFTER Obama gets re-elected.

I really think that re-election needs to be our focus. And we need to support Obama no matter which path he takes to re-election. I have faith in this man.

It is a hard thing to do after working so hard for Clinton/Gore in 92. As a vocal Raygun hater, I was sickened by the free tradin outsourcin ways of the DLC crowd.

The GOP lite shtick was alright when the GOP was seen as positive. Now they are crap - they will be replaced either by real conservatives, moderates, or independents.
The Dems will either continue to triangulate - be the next liberal GOP - or they will be the party of working families for real - not just because working families vote for the lesser of two evils.

[wyldwolf]

66. surely you jest

[Ichingcarpenter]

74. Bill "Send me and President Bush around the world"

"the first thing she intends to do is to send me and former President Bush and a number of other people around the world to tell them that America is open for business and cooperation again," Clinton said

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/18/bill-clinton-george-hw-bush-will-help-president-hillary/


I could do a photo session of his collaboration with these two traitors, that being Bush sr. and Bush junior
but you wouldn't care

DLC = Dump Loser Conservatives


This is a show to prop up his son and give him credence and get him money.

How dare he!!!!

[wyldwolf]

77. And this has WHAT to do with Carter?

:rofl:

You proooogreeeesssssiiivvees can't stay on point.

DLC = Dump Loser Conservatives

"I am a New Democrat." - President Barack Obama (loser?) :rofl:

[mdmc]

136. Sure Jimmy might have sinned in his heart

but he was a decent man.

[formercia]

72. Enshrined

[Ichingcarpenter]

75. "So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

Notice the picture is so "AMERICAN"

[Muttocracy]

78. Iching!

Hi! Haven't seen you on DU in a while, hope you're doing well.

[stillrockin]

113. zing!

[Baby Snooks]

92. Another picture worth a thousand words....

Or a painting worth a thousand words. There are probably more photos of George HW Bush with Bill Clinton than there are photos of George HW Bush with George W Bush. But then we all know George W is not really the favored son. We just didn't know Bill Clinton was.

[Spazito]

76. I am disgusted Canadians are willing to shell out the bucks to see this...

travesty. It sure as hell doesn't say much about us either. The cozy relationship between Bill Clinton and the whole Bush family is unfathomable to me beyond the money end of it but I guess the MONEY is all that is needed.

[Bragi]

85. Me too

We seem to be playing the role of friendly neighbour willing to sit in rapt attention to war criminals. I find this embarrassing.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

80. I understand.

[Truth2Tell]

91. The joke is on us...

[SIMPLYB1980]

103. Yeah fuck Bill Clinton since that's the cool thing to do around here.

:sarcasm:

[book_worm]

105. Well, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama get it around here pretty evenly

[Truth2Tell]

110. Naaahhh, fuck Bill Clinton because he's a jackass. nt

[SIMPLYB1980]

111. Fuck Dennis Kucinich because he's a jackass as well. nt.

[Sebastian Doyle]

121. You'll have to talk to Hillary about that one.

Or Monica, at least. :evilgrin:

[EPIC1934]

162. MAYBE.....

MAYBE ITS BECASUE SOME HAVE SPEND MORE TIME READING AND ANALYZING WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID???????? Why are Clinton haters (excluding Republcans) always more well-read on the topic that Clinton defeneders? ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KoKo]

134. As I said to blm, above on thread...Beatles "Come Together Right Now...Over Me..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd38yrWx2o0

[mdmc]

168. kick

:)

[KoKo]

183. Hope you got it...

and it's what Bill was all about...he was a delightful "JuJu Eyes."

[mdmc]

185. .

.

[Individualist]

95. DLC always enables neocons

[mod mom]

104. I'm enraged how Bill Clinton allowed a TOXIC WASTE INCINERATOR on the Ohio River near a school

FOLLOW THE MONEY...Who financed Clinton? answer: JACKSON STEPHENS

Bush/BCCI/Wal-Mart/WTI financier

Source: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.html

DON'T MISS THIS ONE:
Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PST

Several days ago I posted a diary about the WTI and Von Roll Toxic Waste Incinerator. Because I posted it the same day as the South Carolina Primary, several Kossacks have asked me to repost.
Instead of duplicating the diary, I have added some new developments, and data.
While I was writing the original piece on the history of this foul project, a new ruling from the Ohio EPAallowed this incinerator, located 1,100 feet from an elementary school, to accept even more hazardous waste (anthrax, radioactive waste, infectious medical waste and mixed hazardous waste from Hurricane Katrina) than the original permit that was shrouded in corruption and approved by the Clinton Administration
Clinton and Al Gore promised the residents of East Liverpool, Ohio that they would not allow this incinerator originally approved by Bush '41 to operate. However, a Clinton EPA appointee, recommended by his classmate Hillary Clinton, approved the permit.
This is a tangled tale of corporatism, broken promises and an environmental disaster waiting to happen.

Background on East Liverpool, Ohio:

East Liverpool is a small town on the Ohio River in an economically depressed area. The incinerator was first proposed in 1979 and marketed to the community as a way to bring jobs to East Liverpool.
The WTI facility is one of the world's largest capacity hazardous waste incinerators. It sits on the banks of the Ohio River where Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia converge. It is in a flood plain and over a high-yielding aquifer, and was built on an already-polluted site owned by the Columbiana County Port Authority. There are homes within 320 feet of the facility and a 400-pupil elementary school on a hill just 1100 feet from, and slightly below, the stack.

-snip

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/446786

WTI failed part of its test burn in 1993, releasing four times more mercury than allowed. Children at the elementary school were tested for mercury in their urine prior to WTI operation and again six months after the facility started burning as part of a state health study. In the first test, 69 percent of the children tested negative; the follow-up test found that nearly the same number tested positive.

U.S. EPA's own risk assessment of the facility found at least 27 possible accident scenarios that could threaten the lives of the children in the nearby elementary school.

Despite these and other problems, the U.S. EPA issued WTI a full commercial operating license in 1997. The agency has also allowed the facility to nearly double the types of wastes it can burn.



When Clinton became president, he appointed Carol Browner head of U.S. Environmental Protection Agency,

Ms. Browner then sent a small cadre of scientists to court in Cleveland, Ohio, to serve as expert witnesses on behalf of Waste Technologies, Inc. (WTI).

Because a memo to Ms. Browner from one of her staff was leaked to Greenpeace (a plaintiff in the lawsuit trying to shut down WTI), Ms. Browner's staff were forced to admit under oath that after Ms. Browner took office on January 20th, EPA conducted a secret risk assessment on the WTI incinerator.

-snip

http://www.progressohio.org/page/community/post/jasonbourne/C3Z4
“

[mod mom]

106. Here Clinton sells out ELECTION MONITORING to a noted Tyrant (Kazakstan's president)

After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 31, 2008
Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

-snip


"Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent."

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy."

-snip

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

LINK:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html

[politicasista]

107. delete. wrong spot

Good posts/links. :)

[Octafish]

139. That BCCI things gets complicated.

Goes right to the heart of the matter.

Evil heart.

UAE and BCCI

Through guns, dope, petrodollars, War Inc.

The sad thing is And it went through a lot of good hearts, from all walks of life and political persuasions.

[mod mom]

170. I'd be remissive if I didn't tip a hat to Mark Lombardi, who, literally, drew connections:

Leveymg has an excellent post at the link below showing the connections between BCCI-bin Ladens-bush-Jackson Stephens-and unfortunately even the Democratic president Bill Clinton:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5539929#5540479

[blm]

180. some here submit that BCCI isn't important, but, then fail to explain why they say so.

.

[politicasista]

108. They both need to go away. Obama's got this.

Even though I was only an infant when Carter was president. He is half, if not all the man that Bubba and Blinky will never be.

[democrank]

109. They have the same father, don`t they?

Brothers that play together, stay together.

[Geek_Girl]

112. I know DU is probably pretty split on this

I wonder how this is playing in Freeper Land.

In my lifetime we've had some pretty horrible presidents and so far Big Dog has been the best. Personally it turns my stomach to think he's trying to help GW's legacy in way. Though I do understand why.

[ProgressIn2008]

114. I agree - it's layers of legitimacy slathered over war criminals. Shame on 'em all. nt

[Just-plain-Kathy]

118. I hate Clinton for being a Bush enabler, and I'll hate Obama if he....

doesn't hold Bushco accountable.

[Imagevision]

119. Wouldn't you want to know what's in it for Bill...?!? wouldn't ya!

[Bushknew]

124. It's the pro NEW WORLD ORDER crowd. I'm not surprised....

[WestSeattle2]

125. The fraternity of ex-presidents is a small one,

for the most part they hang together, regardless of party, once they're out of office. Hell, even Carter and Ford eventually kissed and made up. Considering Clinton's relationship with Bush 41, this appearance in Toronto that will lend this event at least some level of legitimacy, does not surprise me. He continues to make a buck off the Office of the President long after he's gone, and he does a favor for 41. Kind of a win-win for WJC.

[Baby Snooks]

164. To a degree...

But not to the degree George HW Bush and Bill Clinton have "hung together" which goes far beyond any "public interest" and anyone who cannot see it just simply doesn't want to see it.

A lot of people were stunned when they saw the duo had become a trio with Ron Burkle - the best way to sum up Ron Burkle is you don't become a billionaire off grocery stores.

But some want to believe all Democrats are Democrats and good and all Republicans are Republicans and evil and that is just the end of that.

[WestSeattle2]

184. There are none so blind as those who will not see.....

You're absolutely correct. However, reading many of the postings on this board, I've come to suspect that many who have not historically been willing to open their eyes to Democratic shortcomings, are beginning to see that our system is rotten to the core, and that party labels mean nothing when it comes to selling out the American people.

[AllentownJake]

126. Well we have the two causes of our current economic crisis on the stage

Bill for all his deregulation and Bush for his tax cuts and war.

The two men who did the most to destroy the middle class in the countries history can high five themselves afterward and take their check.

[scentopine]

129. Its worth attending for the chance to throw your shoes at him... eom

[Liquorice]

132. I bet Clinton will destroy Bush in that debate. I'd love to see it, and I don't

know what you're all complaining about. I think it will be fascinating.

[Bragi]

142. Except it isn't a debate...

It's a PR exercise, with the repair of the reputation of a war criminal being the object.

[defendandprotect]

140. Agree . . . in love and politics . . . Bill has "round heels" . . .IMO --

And, it may be even more than that ---

Both Bill and Hillary have been guests at Bilderberg meeting --

It took a Democrat to overturn 60 years of Welfare guarantees -- and that was Bill!

And, what would any of us ever think again about a huge surplus being left behind

by a Democratic president? Why was that done?

That money should have been returned to Social Security -- or used to start a

Single Payer Health Care --

and it was left behind for the likes of Bush to gobble up --!!!

Amazing!!!

[Liquorice]

149. deleted. Responded to wrong post somehow... nt

[Beacool]

141. Oh, what a bore...................

Call me when Obama nails Bush to the wall for the deeds of the past 8 years. Till then, who cares........

:boring:

[earth mom]

144. I agree it's disgusting, but after all, Bill is BFF with Papa Bush doncha know.

:puke:

[Wizard777]

145. This is actually good. If Bush knew what was good for him. He would lay low for the rest of his life

Like Nixon did. But Bush is not that smart. The more Bush is seen in Public. The more outrage it will stir.

[girl_interrupted]

147. Bragi PM Stephen Harper the "George Bush" of Canada. And Clinton is the "enabler"?

That's how many refer to PM Harper as, the George Bush of Canada. And you're worried about Bill Clinton being a "bush enabler"? Seems Canadians have problems of their own. bush is more welcome in Canada then he is the states, and he doesn't need Bill Clinton to draw a crowd there, he probably would draw an even bigger crowd with his buddy Stephen Harper. They have a very close relationship, personally and politically.

Harper, Bush Share Roots in Controversial Philosophy
Linked by Leo Strauss Close advisers schooled in 'the noble lie' and 'regime http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/11/29/HarperBush/

I don't know how anyone can judge a discussion before it even takes place. Such outrage, over what? In his speech at Notre Dame, President Obama urged people of all different views to come together and discuss what they have in common and what they don't. And after witnessing both the Clinton and bush presidencies they have less in common, then they have more.

In fact In light of the new political environment that faces our nation, the "Speaker Series: The Minds That Move The World" will undoubtedly generate heated discussion as the best political minds of our day, including former Vice President Al Gore and former Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, examine the most talked about topics surrounding current events. http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=88213 Are we to now consider Al Gore to be a Karl Rove "enabler"? I don't think so.


I went to your link re the "protests" against bush & Clinton, there isn't one comment. Not one. Doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for these protests, or outrage.

We are still in Iraq, hopefully we will be out soon, but there is a build of troops in Afghanistan, does that make Obama a "war criminal" because he now has to finish the mess bush started? Give me a break.


The only "disgrace" I see, is that constant Clinton bashing that goes on this board. While President Obama has picked Hillary Clinton for his Secretary of State and the Clintons and Obama's are enjoying a very warm and cordial relationship, the "mad on" of the primaries seems to still linger. It's too bad, almost takes the "Democrat" out of the Democratic Underground. That this thread even made it to the homepage, really makes me wonder. It's time to move on.


I'm sure you are aware that many of our congress voted to give bush the right to do what he thought best (?) in Iraq. Like John Kerry& Hillary Clinton, yet President Obama still holds them in high regard and seeks their counsel.

I doubt if Mahatma Gandhi (if he were still alive) got on stage with gw bush it would "rehabilitate" him. No can save his ass after what he's done, no one. So you needn't worry.

[Bragi]

175. Girt interupted wrote:

<i>That's how many refer to PM Harper as, the George Bush of Canada. And you're worried about Bill Clinton being a "bush enabler"? Seems Canadians have problems of their own. bush is more welcome in Canada then he is the states, and he doesn't need Bill Clinton to draw a crowd there, he probably would draw an even bigger crowd with his buddy Stephen Harper. They have a very close relationship, personally and politically. </i>

You'll get no argument from me on Harper being the last remaining Bushian neocon head of state on the planet. I sure hope the next election fixes that problem.

As for Bush not needing Clinton "to draw a crowd", I also agree, but that isn't the issue.

The issue is that Clinton, through his involvement in this staged PR event, is actively working to rehabilitate Bush, which I think is despicable.

- B

[sce56]

150. My eyes were opened on Nov. 18-2004 The day he opened his Library and the Bush's were gushing all

over him. More than just politeness but genuine praise for him. That made me wonder!

[ColbertWatcher]

154. There words may have been one thing, but ...

... Dumbass' actions that day said something else entirely.

Remember how much praise Dumbass showed here?

[sce56]

181. Yeah but Popy was all a glow over Bill with all kinds of PRAISE!

[ColbertWatcher]

182. Talk is cheap. n/t

[quickesst]

155. Looks like....

...Clinton fever again. Take two logicapsules with a warm common sense bath and don't call me in the morning. You'll live. Thanks.
quickesst

[BeGoodDoGood]

160. When Clinton Was elected.........

I was very glad but I am totally over him now.

Walt

[CommieCowboy]

161. I wonder...

I know people who ran for office for the NDP and had good things to say about Bill Clinton. I wonder if their eyes have since opened to how wrong it is for socialists to praise that man?

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

165. Kyoto and other topics I hope they debate

Bush's foreign policies — most notably his decision to invade Iraq without a mandate from the United Nations — played a major role in alienating many Canadians, Cohen says. Bush's decisions not to support the International Criminal Court and the Kyoto environmental treaty were poorly received in Canada.


http://www.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/22102004/n1.shtml





Bill, did you ever wear that Tie? No not Monica's.

[Romulox]

174. Clinton's policy of shifting most manufacturing jobs to unregulated third world economies

undermines any good Kyoto might do...

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

177. So?

[Romulox]

178. Increase regulations here + shifts most manufacturing to China = MORE overall pollution.

:hi:

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

179. oh

kyoto and Bush. Remember when Bush made threats if Bill made statements at the summit in Canada?

[aikoaiko]

176. I'd pay some money to hear them both talk on the topic.

:shrug:

[mdmc]

186. i'd listen, but no cash..

:kick: