man, I'm feeling a little sick...

[Javaman]

Obama to Speak on Guantánamo Military Commissions Thursday Morning
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3886587

Obama admin. opposes Joe and Valerie Wilson's request for Supreme Court appeal in suit against Cheney
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3886131&mesg_id=3886534

Court Says White House Can Keep Memos on Bush E-mails Private
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3883639

I feel ill. This is really effecting me down to my core being.

Granted it's only been 4 months and we still have a ways to go. And no doubt there is more going on behind the scenes than we are allowed to know, but this is very discouraging.

To me, more than anything else that was brought up in the elections regarding issues, human rights was the #1 issue. And, please don't call me a naysayer, an Obama basher or any other bullshit. I just don't follow politicians like they are some sort of cult of personality. They are elected by us and as such work for us. I just can't jibe this in my mind.

It's really giving me a very sick feeling.

Bash me if you will, but I would prefer someone to talk me down from the ledge then to simply call me a fair weather supporter of some sort.

[jaxx]

1. The alternative is dick's speech coming up.

I hate kool-aid.

[Atticus]

59. But, isn't that Cheney's twisted meme?

"It's him or me!"
"You're either with us or you're against us!"

Cheney's speech is ONE alternative, but it is not THE alternative.

Yes, of course we are all happy we aren't discussing he McCain (shudder!) Palin administration and, yes, of course, four months is hardly enough time to "deliver" on the hope he encouraged us to hold onto. But, many of us share Javaman's unease with the course we appear to be charting on several issues.

While I am concerned about all that Javaman mentioned, the "Big Casino" for me is the refusal, so far, to investigate and prosecute the blatant criminality of the Bush regime. If we don't do this, we are forfeiting the game without leaving the dugout. Can we survive without putting these Constitution-raping thugs in prison? Yeah, sort of. We can likely continue to exist as a nation of sorts, but we will not be a great nation. We will not be that storied land that, for most of my six decades has been synonymous with justice and fairness and all that was good and right and clean.

The America we have loved since birth will have vanished, like Brigadoon, and we will not live long enough to welcome its return in some far-distant future.

And, so, we watch and we wait and we continue to hope that "the lesser of two evils" is not what we'll have to "settle for" once again. There's been way too damn much "settling".

[babylonsister]

2. Are you listening to him? You'd be proud and impressed if you were. nt

[Solomon]

4. He spoke before he heard the President. Par for the course.

We keep replaying this reel over and over and over and...

Obama knocked it out of the park again. Bring on the next issue to be outraged over.

[Javaman]

8. nice criticism. how about trying to inform next time?

:eyes:

[Kablooie]

3. Seems that Cheney knows he's invincible now and can REALLY speak out.

[Fire1]

39. Yes, he spoke out alright. Lied from begnning to end.

[theFrankFactor]

5. Some Grand Plan...

When Obama larded up his cabinet with fuckin' hacks and Clinton cronies I felt like you. But then I tried to talk myself down too. Well, Barack is a black man so he can't just go in there and show determination, confidence and loyalty to the causes he was elected on... No, he needs to appease the Republicans and the "center right" (caugh, choke) Americans first. Let's suck a little right wing dick first and warm up those Republicans so we can "go all the way" when they loosen up... right? That all it is! You'll see! After a few years Barack is gonna let loose with all those WILD COMMUNIST issues he was elected for. Just give 'em some time.

How'd I do?

Feel better?

[Javaman]

10. not really. that actually scares me more. But thanks anyway. :) nt

[theFrankFactor]

16. LOL, I Wish I Could Help Man. But I'd Be Lying (eom)

[katmondoo]

13. I sure hope you are right

I so wanted him to get back to the principles of the Constitution and law. So far I have felt a little sad that I don't see it. I will still continue to support him and hope for the best.

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. "Feel better?" Loads!

:sarcasm:

[OHDEM]

6. "We will attempt to try detainees who violated U.S. laws in...

...Federal Courts."

That's promising! (Obama just said that.)

"There are no neat or easy answers to problems at GITMO."

"It is my responsibility to solve the problem at Guantanamo."

"We will be ill-served by fear-mongering on Guantanamo."

"We will no longer permit use of evidence obtained using cruel methods."

He also mentioned that hundreds of terrorists are in our prison system already.

Talking about the photos now....

He feels that releasing the photos would endanger our troops by painting them all with a broad brush. Feels nothing would be gained with releasing photos that matters more than our soldiers in harms way. Trying to strike a balance between tranperancy and nat'l security.

All of that seems reasonable and promising. Right? I think he's been handed a shit-storm of unbelievable proportions and I'm willing to give him some time to do the right thing. I won't always like what he does most likely, but I do have some faith in his judgement.

I hope that helps a little!

Question EVERYTHING! Not a thing wrong with that.

[theFrankFactor]

9. Hmmm, how 'bout that!

He feels that releasing the photos would endanger our troops by painting them all with a broad brush. Feels nothing would be gained with releasing photos that matters more than our soldiers in harms way.

That was a hard one to see comin' wasn't it?

[grasswire]

11. there's a remedy for troops in danger!

Just bring them home.

Just bring them home.

[theFrankFactor]

17. You Mean Like He Said He'd Do? Nahhhhhhh!

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. Immediately if not sooner!

:thumbsup:

[OHDEM]

20. I agree with you, but...

...I don't think it's that simple anymore. Bush went in and fucked up 2 countries. I'm torn between just wanting our troops out of there completely and thinking that we will leave both coutries far worse and more dangerous than before Bush marched them in.

I want the photos released because I think it might wake some idiots up about what constitutes torture and why it's WRONG. (I'm probably giving the people who can't figure it out too much credit.) However, I'm not sure he's wrong about it increasing attacks and the danger to our soldiers.

FUBAR!

[Javaman]

15. Okay, that' helps. Thanks. I'm not generally the chicken little type

it's just the several negative stories coming out that kind of got me down.

Cheers!

[Fire1]

41. I certainly have confidence in avoiding 'adhoc' policies and

wiping their asses with American values and the Constitution.

[theFrankFactor]

7. And Here's Some More Sunshie for Your Asshole...

The Left is walking an ever thinning line of popularity. If there's one thing WE KNOW we CAN accomplish it's to shoot ourselves in the face.

The Washington Generals are comin' back to Washington kids!

Oh man, I hope I'm wrong!

[JuniperLea]

44. "The Left is walking an ever thinning line of popularity"

Step


Away


From the Kool-Aid!

[L0oniX]

58. Freeper flavored Kool-Aid?

[Mari333]

12. Hes a corporate politician

The same rotten bunch are still in charge.

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. You're exactly right. nt.

[Echo In Light]

23. The real question is, why do so many otherwise intelligent people continue to buy the BS?

Shouldn't it, you know, maybe sink in after the umpteenth time for a greater % of people that politicians are liars, and do not serve the people's interests?

[Robbien]

14. Obama nominates Superfund polluter lawyer to run DOJ environment division

How did you miss that one?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x450051


And listening to Obama this morning on torture being an acceptable action for America to be doing because we are just too damn busy to bring justice to the system is soul destroying.

[theFrankFactor]

21. These's a New...Cronie in Town! (cue Lowered Expectations Music)

President Barack Obama has nominated a lawyer for the nation’s largest toxic polluters to run the enforcement of the nation’s environmental laws. On Tuesday, Obama “announced his intent to nominate” Ignacia S. Moreno to be Assistant Attorney General for the Environment and Natural Resources Division in the Department of Justice. Moreno, general counsel for that department during the Clinton administration, is now the corporate environmental counsel for General Electric, “America’s #1 Superfund Polluter“:

I'm thrilled! Aren't you?

[babylonsister]

24. Did you listen to the speech? Why are you so full of it?

And prove he said anywhere torture is acceptable, please. You sound like faux - making shit up.

[Robbien]

26. When someone breaks the law and tortures but

the leader is not willing to bring them to justice, the leader is sanctioning the criminal act.

[babylonsister]

27. He didn't and never has sanctioned torture, so you are full of it.

Very lame. And telling. Will you now cheerlead for Cheney? That wouldn't surprise me.

[goclark]

29. Me either nt

[TheMachineWins]

30. What he said is true, allowing it to go unpunished is criminal and amoral

You are cheering a speech as if it absolves all actions and insulting anyone who dares to disagree. It's as if you too are saying complicity in war crimes is OK with you. War crimes are never forgotten regardless of what country commits them.

[Robbien]

34. It is always either or in your posts

Either one blindly follows Obama cheering loudly
Or they are a freeper, part of Darth Cheney's team

No shades of gray


We tortured. That is a fact.

No one is being held accountable because Obama feels we should move on. Those who torture can torture because causing torture is no longer a punishable act.

And still you cheerlead.

[babylonsister]

35. You are the one who wrote the lie -here:

listening to Obama this morning on torture being an acceptable action for America

No way, no how, and yes, I'll call you on it every time. TS if you don't like it.

[Robbien]

38. Okay, then what will Obama do if he knows anyone tortures in our name?

What did he say he would do?

He said he had no plans on going after the Bush Admin.

So, what will Obama do when Americans torture?

[Hawkowl]

49. Words

I don't want to start a flame war, but to me, President Obama will be against torture when and only when, he brings indictments against the orchestrators of the policy of torture.

Merely denouncing torture is not enough. Granted I agree with you wholeheartedly that Mr. Obama is not pro-torture, but he is THE President now. He can't just make speeches. He must enforce the law. He must investigate, indict, and try the war criminals.

[JuniperLea]

48. Utter and complete bullshit

Take a clue card... check out how he operates... notice the nuance... watch him set them up and knock them down.

He absolutely and completely condemned the actions you are lying your fucking ass off to assert that he did say.

Bullshit.

You should step away from the Kool-Aid.

[JuniperLea]

47. "torture being an acceptable action for America"

When did he say that? I listened to the whole speech, and I've only heard him saying things to the direct contrary of that statement.

Can you point it out in the transcript, please?

[OHDEM]

25. "We will not be safe if we see national security as a wedge...

issue to divide the American people."

SLAM!

Think that was directed at DICK?

[Coyote_Bandit]

28. You Forgot

FISA and the flip flop against single payer.

I expected a corporate sell out and that seems to be what we got. The best of two bad choices is not necessarily a good choice. Obama is good at selling hope. Too bad he has thus far been unable to actually deliver the goods to the flesh and blood citizens of this nation. I do not have high expectations. Perhaps there will be a crumb thrown my way - while billions of dollars are thrown at wall street, the mortgage bankers and the health care industry. Sucks.

[truedelphi]

56. Only it is not Billions being thrown at Wall Street -

It is Trillions.

Economists were worried that this nation would be facing hard times on account of Bush having thrown a two trillion dollar war. But now Onbama has allowed for the Trillions to continue leaking from Main Street to Wall Street, with nothing in the way of oversight until it is far too late.

See Dem Congressman Grayson try and find some accuntability here (To no avail):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUreWxKGOkY

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. Take heart. People are discovering the internet everyday.

[BonnieJW]

32. I feel the same but there was no choice.

The worst part is feeling fooled. Obama can really talk, but I'm very disappointed.

[Pachamama]

33. Yeah, and add to that ill feeling in your stomach the fact that Cheney gets to follow Obama's speech

Its absolutely fucking surreal....sorry for the rude pundit response, but I'm so sick to my stomach right now about how messed up things are and upside down.


I'm not going to bash you...I agree whole heartedly with what you just posted....

[Javaman]

37. Yeah, the crashcart speech was a little surreal. what's the point?

he's my theory. much as he ran the presidency when moron* was in, I honestly believe he's attempting the same thing again. He's an obsessive narcissist. He will eventually go down in flames, but it will take a while.

[Lorien]

40. It seems unprecidented. When has a former VP been allowed non

commercial air time to bash the current administration? Is this the way the MSM is going to handle things from now on? Follow up all of the President's speeches with Right wing propaganda from a war criminal?

One way Obama could deal with it: prosecute the f*ckers.

[nichomachus]

36. I think your expectations are a little high

Presidents can only act within certain constraints. The country is basically owned and operated by corporations. Without corporate money -- and approval -- no politician can be elected. Any politician who bucks the corporatocracy will be destroyed -- either politically or physically. The intelligence agencies and the corporations are closely related -- so closely that they might as well be one entity.

Don't think for a second that, as we speak, there isn't some "lone crazed gunman" (or more than one) being groomed by black ops people to carry out the worst thing you can imagine. It will be some patsy who may or may not do the deed, but who will certainly take the fall -- and who, some commission will find, was the lone actor in a "terrible terrible deed."

We don't like to think that -- and I'm sure this post will be met with the usual catcalls of CT and tinfoil hat -- but the evidence is overwhelming. Cross the wrong people and you find yourself in a open limousine in hostile Dallas with your Secret Service detail mysteriously told to stand down, or on a hotel balcony in Memphis providing a lucrative target, or being led through a hotel kitchen in LA, with guards newly appointed that night, and being shot in the back several times -- allegedly by a man who was never behind you.

Everyone likes to use the "he's playing chess" meme about Obama. I think it's apt, but not for the reason most people use it.

The truth is that in a chess game, your moves are severely constrained. You may think you have lots of possible moves, but you don't. There are only a few real moves. All of the others are stupid and/or fatal.

The fate of this country is, and has been for a long time, in the hands of very shadowy people, who will stop at nothing to achieve their agenda. Even the president dare not cross them.

[DemReadingDU]

45. Sobering thoughts, thanks

I have thought for a while that there was always somebody(s) behind Bush with an agenda to be carried out for the 'elites', and it is no different with Obama as President. Somebody(s) want to keep their status quo, even if the world ends up in a global depression.

[NJCher]

60. no catcall here

The truth is that in a chess game, your moves are severely constrained. You may think you have lots of possible moves, but you don't. There are only a few real moves. All of the others are stupid and/or fatal.

So true, nichomas. Everything you said is what I was thinking. And you said it so well.

It will take a revolution. That is the only way we will see our principles in action.


Cher

[JuniperLea]

42. It's all about seeing the patterns...

Obama takes the high road, he doesn't force many issues at all. Well, after this morning, I think it's safe to say the gloves are off in some areas, but that doesn't mean he's going to bust in on any situation with both barrels blasting. Not his style.

He sets them up, then he knocks them down. Repeatedly, this has been his MO.

IMHO, to worry at this stage of the game is to waste precious energy. The only thing we should be worried about is our apparent inability to understand this President, our inability to keep our pants on and learn to wait a nanosecond before busting into the "woe are we" mantra, and quite possibly the most important thing, learn to see patterns.

It's been 8 seriously fucked up years. To think that any administration could have done more so early in the game is just stupid.

[mmonk]

43. I can't talk someone down while I'm gearing up to fight.

[kid a]

46. "I just don't follow politicians like they are some sort of cult of personality"

your crack is showing

[Javaman]

53. ?

:shrug:

[Greyhound]

61. Don't hold your breath. n/t

[shadowknows69]

50. Might as well jump

-David Lee Roth

[bobbolink]

51. Try being a poor person in the US and hearing NOTHING from Obama about your

situation.

NOTHING on AirAmerica, or any other "progressive" media.

NOTHING from "activists" other than the very few who are dedicated ONLY to poverty issues, and they don't get heard outside of their own circle.

Yes, you will get bashed. To speak out now is considered a crime, and if you aren't extremely careful, you'll get "suspended".

Same with poverty.

It's just not "sexy".

[windoe]

52. Javaman these are challenging times

since the people that came into overt control in 2000 have not simply vanished with one election. Most of us here truly know this, yet it is sobering to be shown just how powerful this group of elite rich (bankers? families?) are. They became vastly richer since 2000, making them infinitely more influential, dominating and sadly, I believe hungrier for more. I am so happy that President Obama is in the WH, yet have always known he would be surrounded by sharks.

I think that our power lies in our ability to digest all of the sad news we read, and transform this into how we conduct our lives, (boycotting the corps when possible, networking and unionizing, and using alternative fuels, ect) We have to convert our anger into intent to live out our lives knowing what power we have in whatever sphere of influence we have been given.

It seems that the very idea of power has to shift into something else, not in money form or in force, it has to be in people coming together, (which is one mission of the MSM, to keep people sad, disempowered, and divided....) Truly people have to 'unplug' themselves from all of the bad news from time to time, not that we do not care, but because it is a matter of personal power, of focus, and use of energy--and regroup ourselves.

Americans, and everyday people around the world have to figure out how to empower themselves and resist the psychological effects of media, day after day, saturating the airwaves with yet more ways they are dominating people. This is just my view from the fringes, for what it is worth!

I think this country can change, but it will most likely take many years. A *toast* of java to you :hi:

[Kaleko]

62. Lovely post.

I've been unplugged from the news on TV for years, but not from reading DU, which can also feed an addiction to wanting to know what's wrong with the world. That focus is debilitating if it's held for too long.

:hi:

[MzNov]

54. Cheer up. He hasn't named a Centrist to the SCOTUS yet.

:-(

Oh, that was mean. Sorry.

[guava]

55. Nothing to see...move along...No one should express any angst

whatsoever. When questions came up before the election about the POTUS' vote on the FISA bill, his promise to up the ante in Afghanistan, and other things I cannot recall, everyone went into a tizzy and accused the skeptical ones of being Freepers. I voted for Obama but had zero illusions.

[Generator]

57. Can I suggest the new Green Day album?

Yes, I say album, I am that old.

I've had that sick feeling ever since he chose Rahm. And then Clinton-whom I thought the entire point of voting for Obama, was his difference from her on foreign policy and then he appoints her as his SOS. Teah, it works for him politically and she is doing no harm there, but remember Samantha Power? That was what I thought Obama was-something new in the thinking on the world.

Another song-The Alternate Routes-"I've seen the future and the future's nothing new."

I thought that summed up 2009 to a TEE!

And then it got sicker when I realized he had torturer apologists on his team and was considering them for positions. But they got no public position, just adviser behind the scenes.

(I want even go into that stupid fuck Larry Sommers-but I did think the stimulus was a really good thing that Obama did)

The worst of it is actually this from Glen Greenwald-which sums up DU these days:

So now, we're going to have huge numbers of people who spent the last eight years vehemently opposing such ideas running around arguing that we're waging a War against Terrorism, a "War President" must have the power to indefinitely lock people away who allegedly pose a "threat to Americans" but haven't violated any laws, our normal court system can't be trusted to decide who is guilty, Terrorists don't deserve the same rights as Americans, the primary obligation of the President is to "keep us safe," and -- most of all -- anyone who objects to or disagrees with any of that is a leftist purist ideologue who doesn't really care about national security. In other words, arguments and rhetoric that were once confined to Fox News/Bush-following precincts will now become mainstream Democratic argumentation in service of defending what Obama is doing. That's the most harmful part of this -- it trains the other half of the citizenry to now become fervent admirers and defenders of some rather extreme presidential "war powers."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/


I think we have posts on here this second that echo that.

Well, at least Cheney is not president. That's something.