What is the deal with the Army today?

[elocs]

Last fall my 17 year old nephew finished his basic training at Fort Benning in Georgia and it went fine. Then he went to Fort Gordon in Georgia for his advanced training in radio repair. In the months he has been at Fort Gordon he has been assaulted and bullied by other older and bigger soldiers and was told he just had to stand up for himself. He told his mother that it was getting so bad that he was going to kill somebody if it continued (that's what happens when bullied kids get pushed over the edge). Finally he was moved to a different barracks.

He and others have had their valuable things stolen and their lockers broken into. He has had 2 portable Sony Playstations stolen which he used to play games and watch dvds, including those from home. Recently he was on a 2 day field exercise and when he returned he found his locker broken into and that was when his second Playstation was stolen. This happened to others as well (almost sounds like an inside job). This Playstation had insurance if it was stolen, but he was not allowed to file a police report which was needed to get it replaced. He has had his wallet stolen, which included his military ID and also included his social security number, but he couldn't get anybody to do anything about it. His drill sergeant is the first in the line of command and he won't help. To top it off, my nephew says the soldiers at Fort Gordon are sloppy and will not even stand at attention when they are supposed to be at attention.

His next stop is Fort Hood from where he undoubtedly will be heading to Iraq. When he told his drill sergeant that he was going to Fort Hood, the guy laughed at him and told him he would be going to Iraq. Is this the kind of army we are getting now with thugs and thieves free to do what they want?

[BobRossi]

1. Sounds like the Army to me.

I was in the Air Force 35 years ago and for the most part it sounds like the military of that era.

[Sequoia]

2. That's deplorable.

The army is running a commerical now aimed at parents telling them to listen to their children (black family) if they want to talk about joining up.

"You made them Strong. We'll make them ARMY SRONG."

I tell my child Do NOT ever join the military. I was in the air force but it was during peace time. People should just not sign up these days. The military serves the corporations, not the american people. The National Guard, well, there is a need for them. But overseas, in Iraq, no way.

[hobbit709]

3. When you start taking people with criminal records

psychological problems, gang memmbers, etc; you end up with a lack of disclipine, morale and unity.
The Army has been broken by our "Fearless Leader" to the point that it is now little more than a gang of thugs with a license to kill.

[Captain Angry]

4. Common occurence

My brother's Army, and has been for 5+ years now.
My dad was Air Force for 20 years.
A good friend was Navy for nearly 10 years.

This happens in every branch, and at every location.

My Navy friend spoke of gangs on the boat that would shake people down, rob their lockers, etc.

In the Air Force, people would wreck their rooms and then run around destroying other people's room because they must have wrecked his room.

There are several kinds of people in the military.

1: Good, smart people that want to serve their country. Some without much direction in life, hoping to learn something and see the world.

2: Power trippers, looking for opportunity to screw with other people, get training, money, etc. (Look at the white supremacy organizations sending their people into the military for the training...)

3: Foreign Nationals trying to obtain citizenship, bringing their own ethics and cultural differences into an environment of uniformity and conformity. Can be very stressful.

4: Thieves, jerks, and other people that are in the military to stay out of jail.


This is nothing new, and is not going to stop. The lesson to learn is that when you're on base, you have nothing of your own, nothing that you can't bear to see stolen or broken.

It sucks, but that's part of the deal.

[elocs]

5. I am betting that the recruiter never told him about that part.

I tried to talk him out of it, but he had graduated from Lincoln Challenge Academy last summer which is run by the Illinois National Guard and so he was determined to join up. It is sad to think that these are going to be the kind of people you have to depend upon to watch your back in places like Iraq.

[underpants]

22. Yep that sounds about right

I was in group 1 I would say but I saw all kinds when I was in (Cav Scout 90-93)

I didn't see much theft but we had suicide attempts monthly, a rape (all male unit), lots of weed, and drinking like we were Germans or something :-)

The Army builds character and you should have seen some of the characters we had.

Me? I was just the shithouse lawyer of the platoon.

[Nickster]

27. That just about describes my experience. Not so much on the theft or violence to each other, but lot

s of stupid "frat-boy" kinda stuff. I never felt threatened by any soldiers around me. Especially when I was at Ft Gordon. Augusta was far more scary in certain areas than the actual base itself.

[Squatch]

6. Ft Hood = 4th Infantry Division

The division with the most frequently deployed brigades.

[elocs]

9. That's why his drill sergeant laughed when he said that's where he was going.

Great joke to laugh at a newly 18 year old kid and tell him he is going to Iraq. Of course, I warned him about that before he signed up, but what do I know? Fort Hood does seem to be the deployment place. I had a friend who got sent to Vietnam from there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Tell him to head over to Crawford and The Peace House as soon as he gets leave

Lots of Fort Hood soldiers hang out there. It's not far from Fort Hood.

Also tell him about this -> GI Bill of Rights Hotline [phone]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=70817678

[AllegroRondo]

20. AND First Cavalry Division!

[leftofthedial]

7. Our soldiers follow the example of their

"commander in chief"

[Breeze54]

28. No they don't

and I find your comment insulting. Just because they are
serving doesn't mean they agree with the current US policy.
Lumping all the soldiers together is an out right lie!
Soldiers are US citizens and there is and has always been
crime on bases; just like any town or city in the US!

[bonito]

32. Ouch, that hurt

and so untrue.

[ddeclue]

8. "Steal all that you can steal?"....n/t

[Ilsa]

10. This is so sad. I guess your nephew will have to forego

having any desirable forms of entertainment on base.

Word tends to get around about bases with poor morale and discipline. My brother was in Europe at a base that had some morale and drug problems, and eventually, the group got reported and cleaned up.

My husband's cousin's son is in his early 20's and he is finishing up basic training soon. We are worried of course, that he could end up in Iraq. Other than that, he seems to have found some purpose and personal discipline by joining. I just wish it could have been under better circumstances.

Good luck to your nephew, elocs.

[Frogger]

12. He told his mother?!

I think I see part of the problem.

However, what happened to him is reprehensible, and indicative of a society more concerned with whatever than justice. My sympathy to him. If the ARry won't protect him, though, he better learn to do it himself.

[elocs]

13. Considering he was just 17 when he went in

I don't think it was unreasonable to let his mother know that he was getting roughed up by other soldiers, he had his wallet and ID stolen and could not get anybody to do anything about it, and that he was constantly getting his personal belongings stolen. It was his mother who gave him the last Playstation for Christmas and had it insured if it was stolen, but the Army would not let him file a police report so that the insurance could replace it. The kid is in the Army, not in a prison where he can be assaulted and ripped off with impunity. He had gone to a very bad high school of over 3000 kids and this kind of behavior would not be accepted there, so why should it be ok in our armed forces? This kid is not very big, although he is in shape, but if he has to protect himself against some much larger guys who bully him (or rape him) he might feel justified in using a much greater which would put him behind bars and then the Army could act all innocent.

[Frogger]

29. I'm not unsympathetic.

but 1) what could his mother do, anyway?
and 2) grown-ups don't get their mothers to solve their problems.

and 3) How could the Army stop him from filing a police report?

[elocs]

40. Well,

1. Concerning the stolen Playstation, his mother gave it to him for Christmas and had it insured so it could be replaced if stolen. She had the paperwork since by that time it was already clear that nearly anything he had could be stolen.

2. I don't think he expected his mother to solve his problem, but he also did not hide from her what was happening to him. Also, those of us who are grownups and even old enough to be grandparents will often seek the help of family, especially if we are not in a position to do everything ourselves. Plus, we are talking about somebody who just turned 18 and although he is an adult he kind of still has his learner's permit.
If his mother could help him so he doesn't kill somebody after being bullied and assaulted, that might be a good thing.

3. How is the Army able to do anything they do? They own him, body and soul. He has been well trained to obey orders and to do what he it told to do. It is not unreasonable to understand how the Army could exercise a lot of power and control over an 18 year old new recruit.

[Breeze54]

31. His mother is an idiot!

She signed him up at age 17??

Bitch slap her!! :grr:

[elocs]

39. She did not sign him up, but she signed for him since he was determined.

In 6 months he could have joined without her signing. It's too easy to judge when you are not in the situation. I tried to talk him out of it, but he would not listen to me either. He was already finished with school, so he was pretty much an adult and responsible for his own decisions. His recruiter forgot to tell him that his military service would also involve his being bullied, assaulted, ripped off, and generally having anything valuable stolen. Had he known that he might have made a different decision.

[ruiner4u]

37. Woah!

but if he has to protect himself against some much larger guys who bully him (or rape him) he might feel justified


Excuse me?

Is your nephew this kind of major stud that would get him raped? Im still trying to understand the mindset of some of the people who post on here who think that every straight 'good boy' male in the company of other males will somehow get raped...

Rape him? please lady...

[elocs]

38. Sorry, I can't excuse you. Rape is not about sex, it's about power and domination.

Rape has nothing to do with being a stud. Males who will bully somebody with impunity may also resort to rape. Happens in prison all the time and I am sure it happens in the military also. Please wait until you get at least 1000 posts here before you feel it is ok to put it upon yourself to question people's mindset.

P.S.,
I am not a lady, or even a female.

[Firepit 462]

42. ABSOLUTLEY !!!!!

He dosn't have 1000 posts, so who the fuck does he think he is, having an opnion and all. Sheeesh, you would think that people would understand that opnions are not valid unless you have posted 1000 times on DU.

I see this childish, self indulgent small minded argument that is offered so many times because some people cannot think fast enough to pull an adult comment out of thier ass.

Someday not only the 17 year old soldier, but "some" other people will have to grow up, let go of thier mothers apron and be a fucking grown up.
I know this will come as a shock, and you will never be as offended as you are right now, so grab a tissue and..............

Let the Banning Begin !!!!! I'm sure that will make you feel like a man.

[uppityperson]

15. You have a problem with a 17 yr old telling his parents he might kill someone?

I'd rather have him have a close family relationship than acting on those impulses.

[elocs]

16. This happens with kids all across the country.

My nephew was at his ropes end after being bullied and assaulted and not having anybody in authority taking it seriously when he reported it. At 17 they placed him in with guys who were mostly in their 20s, people who were in high school when he was still in grade school. He is small which makes him an easy target for bullies. We have seen it in schools across the country what happens when bullied kids snap. My local schools like to make a big show of how they are addressing bullying, but it still routinely goes on. I work with a woman who said her son was bullied in kindergarten and now in second grade he hates school since the bullying has continued and in spite of his mother complaining loudly and often about it. When local law enforcement was called by her their suggestion was when her 8 year old son was hit that he should hit back harder. It is surprising that anybody grows up normal, whatever that is.

[Frogger]

30. Soldiers are grown=up,

Or should be. he is obviously in an environment he is not ready for.

However, I'm not unsympathetic, but ifhis buddies in his squad or platoon ever found out about it, his life would change from miserable to pure Hell.

Not fair, but life is like that. He has to find a way to cope with the situation.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Sounds like he took a wrong turn and got into a marine barracks.

It all sounds like my glorious stint in the marines. But, I will say that at $79 a month we didn't have much worth stealing.

As for the sloppy stuff, sounds like he might be in with "short-timers". The remains of my uniforms were (literally) held together with staples in my last year and the military niceties of standing at attention and saluting were left to "boots" and "lifers" who did it even when they could get away with not doing it.

Or, as we non-lifers said, "Eat the apple and fuck the corps."

[NNN0LHI]

17. Which one of his parents signed the papers so he could enlist at 17 years old?

Just curious.

Don

[elocs]

24. His mother signed for him.

He had graduated from the Lincoln Challenge Academy which was run by the Illinois National Guard and the training he got there pretty much allowed him to breeze through basic training at Ft. Benning where things were much different, better. He was absolutely hell-bent on signing up and could have done so himself in 6 months. I tried to talk him out of it, but he wouldn't listen even though he thinks Bush is an idiot.

[TX-RAT]

18. Play Stations are allowed in Boot Camp?

Things have changed.

[elocs]

23. Times have changed.

Years ago it was a cassette player or a cd player, so this is what they have now. It was a portable Playstation that he could use to play games and watch dvds. I sent him a lot of dvds which were stolen, including his last visit home last Christmas.

[Nickster]

25. It's not boot camp. He's in AIT, which is school for his job. Depending on your job you can be there

for quite some time. In boot camp, you'd be lucky to see a newspaper.

[sanskritwarrior]

35. Actually they take those things from you during INDOC and then

they store them all in one place. When I was a young recruit 13 years ago it was CD players and Guess clothing that was stolen from us while we were in 8 weeks of basic.........

I'm not trying to skip how this effected this young man, but this is the military, draftee or voluntary, 1967 or 2007. This is college too, I went to college while I was in (strategic assignment near a large university) and I had stuff stolen from me in college on the campus lawn. People steal shit, and bully each other and tell crude jokes to hurt people........all the time........it's not just the military..........Gotta love the human race.

[tjwash]

19. Sounds the Army.

...hasn't changed one bit.

[AllegroRondo]

21. He needs to speak to the IG or his Chaplain.

Seriously.

The IG (Inspector General) exists to make sure that procedures are followed and things like this are taken care of. If he was not allowed to file an MP report for stolen personal items, thats a MAJOR violation, and the IG should know. He can ask to speak to the IG through his chain of command without giving them a reason, and they MUST let him do so.

If he cant get through to the IG that way, the next stop is the Chaplain's office. Again, any soldier can ask to speak to their Chaplain about anything by informing their supervisor and not give a reason. Chaplains arent just there for religious purposes, they are counsellors and great at getting red tape unstuck. He will probably direct the soldier to go to the MPs and IG, but he can also help him contact those agencies if the Drill Sergeants are not helping him.

A Drill Sergeant that wont help about these kinds of things is serious, and needs to be reported.

[bonito]

33. Thanks! n/t

[sanskritwarrior]

36. I'm not sure where you served but the IG

is there to protect the chain of command, not the troops. I know what their mission is supposed to be, but 13 years has taught me that the IG is a snake in the grass not to be trusted.

[orleans]

26. recruiters are in the prisons recruiting felons

...i heard a caller on ed schultz the other day, saying his kid was in jail (felony conviction) and the recruiters were talking to him (if he signed up he could get out of jail without finishing his sentence of 13 more months)

so we're getting a criminal class fighting with the non-criminal class of kids.

[TX-RAT]

41. Never heard of that before.

Don't believe the caller was being truthful.

[orleans]

45. if you had heard him you'd believe it. i'm not going to try to

convince you--but it certainly would be interesting to find out more about that. but after hearing this father i don't doubt it.

[sanskritwarrior]

34. Sounds like the Army to me too

I've been in 13 years......most people are kind and decent, there are always a few bad apples, but this sounds incredibly ordinary.

[Done]

43. Sounds like the army in the years following vietnam

Low morale…

[mnhtnbb]

44. Please see my post about the new documentary, Soldiers Speak Out

by the Academy award winning producers and directors of The Panama Deception.

The Empowerment Project is working to try to get copies of their
DVD into the hands of people who can counter some of the lies and deceptive recruiting practices of the military.

It ain't pretty. These 17-18-19 yo kids need to know the truth before they sign up.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=580074&mesg_id=580074

[Jackeen]

46. I'll be fairly sure Hood will be an improvement.

Although I'm surprised at that sort of behaviour at AIT, I would be hugely surprised at that sort of behaviour at a line unit.

The reason being that at AIT, you're just one of a group of people thrown together with no great need to depend on each other or to achieve anything except the individual feat of passing the course.

This does not apply at the duty station. When there, people are placed together for extended periods, and need to rely on each other. I would wager that any such unsociable behaviour would be stomped out fairly quickly (possibly literally) by the other members of the squad, let alone the team leader. Your nephew may have managed to run into one of the few Drills who just don't care, I'd be surprised if an E-5 or E-6 in his unit of assignment doesn't have a little more interest in the well-being of a troop he's going to go to war with.

Make sure he hangs in there, it'll get better. But yes, a quick word with the chaplain if he's still at AIT might not go amiss at all.