According to my brother in law, we are going down to socialism!! SOCIALISM!!

[ejpoeta]

We live in NY. and john was talking about the pop tax. I told him that if you supported the smoking tax, then you can't complain about a tax on pop. I don't agree with either, personally, and it doesn't take much to end up taxing everything. So he started talking about how we are heading towards socialism. I said that he's right! That program that provides help for their daughter at school who has disabilites.... socialism. he didn't agree with that. I told him that under his definition, it IS socialism. just like the fire departments and ambulance services. and the roads and parks. SOCIALISM. kind of shut he and my sister up.

my sister was like, if only they didn't get benefits (WELFARE, mind you) the first day they get here. i thought about after they left. wait a minute. you can't get benefits unless you are a resident. you can't be a resident after being here one day. what is she talking about. but, I can imagine how they are bitching all the way home right now over my assertion that the help that THEY get for their daughter.... things like an aide at school, speech and visual and other types of therapy that they get.... that that is not the same as SOCIALISM.

i think i am right though. i doubt it shook that faux news out of their ears, but i did say it. it came out before i could stop myself. I get so tired of the baloney they spout about all those people on welfare and how somehow THEY are having to pay for all those folks sitting around collecting welfare.

I agree that we are taxed through the nose in NY. And I contend that folks wouldn't mind it so much if we saw something for it. Like, healthcare, better schools... And i don't agree with taxing pop.... and i didn't agree with taxing the cigarettes. but you can't have it both ways. The same reasons they use to say we should tax smokers so highly is the same reason they use to tax pop. My husband suggested that like trying to go for a mileage tax, maybe they'll tax us by calories or something.

Do i believe in the nanny state, which i believe was what my brother in law was trying to refer to with the socialism meme in regards to taxing pop. NO!! but i also believe that you can't expect to receive the things like the programs my sister and her husband avail themselves of on behalf of their daughter, which is apparently not available to people in other states even, without realizing that the high taxes we pay are what provide these services to my niece. And were it not for their own need for the services i wonder if they would be complaining about others having access to these services. I bet they would.

[Towlie]

1. What's "pop"? Does that mean soda?

[MadMaddie]

3. Yep

[MattBaggins]

36. The OP is from Western NY

Rochester or Buffalo.

The sane parts of NY call it soda.

[LakeSamish706]

2. Question has to be, are Denmark and Sweden that bad of places to live? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. I'd like to find out for myself. I'm thinking that I'd rather love living there.

:-)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. Well done!

No matter how many facts you present to them, they're gonna believe that "first day here they get welfare" nonsense because it makes them feel superior.

Whatever you do, don't tell them about Medicare. Their heads will explode ...........

[spanone]

5. i've got a dumb fuck right-wing pot smoking brother in law*

strange combo

how could you get stoned and believe that shit?

[Mopar151]

29. Too much wake'n bake with Bill-O n/t

[Cassandra]

6. Where are you from that you say pop?

[BlueJazz]

7. Probably the midwest.

[ejpoeta]

26. i was born and raised in WNY. where i live today.

[Booster]

8. An old friend of mine's sister found out that she has a serious

form of cancer, and the treatment she has was costing her $21,000 every time she had it. My friend and her entire family are Republicans and they have quite a bit of money - millions. My friend's sister doesn't have insurance because she had breast cancer 22 yrs ago and couldn't get insurance.
She did buy catostrophic insurance, but it doesn't cover the treatment she needs (that's another story). After watching "Farrah's Story", I sent my friend an email asking if they had looked into getting treatment in another country and she replied that her sister had found a woman who helped her get the treatments and the government would have for it. Like your relatives, these people thinks this is different - it's happening to THEM and they deserve help. I'm not saying they don't, I'm saying EVERYONE needs help at some point in their life. I think Republicans wear blinders and only see what they want to see.

[ejpoeta]

20. exactly. everyone needs help. and i think what they mean by 'socialism'

is how we all pay in taxes, and then the services are available when needed. and i thought you were going to say that they refused to go to another country because 'murika is the bestest in the world. but, no. things do change your thinking when you are going through that. ours is the best in the world, but if you can't get treatment... what is the damned point. i guess your friend is lucky she had money to go to another country to get the treatment. how many of the rest of us don't. this is why i say single payer is not a likely thing to happen. too many people THINK their insurance is great.... until something happens. in your friend's case... her situation is the very REASON against private insurance.... excluding those who have been sick already.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. Quel horreur!

We shall be like ze, how you say, France!!!

[Laelth]

10. Good for you. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[madrchsod]

11. i wish we were.....

oh well i can dream about a fair and just society based on a social contract between the people and their government.

[POAS]

12. Becoming socialist? From his lips to God's ears!

[Autumn Colors]

13. Are you originally from NY?

Because as far as I know, no one refers to soda as "pop" there. I was born and raised in upstate New York ... unfortunately, I must admit I was born in Newburgh ... ugh.

I've only noticed people calling it "pop" in the midwest.

[ejpoeta]

19. i was born here and have always called it pop.

[EFerrari]

14. Good, the sooner the better! Don't forget the postal service and the army.

:)

[ejpoeta]

22. well, john was in the air force up until 90. he has also worked for the

post office, but he was the part time guy working saturdays and waiting around for this one lady to retire. then he gave up on that. he and my sister both work for the IRS. which to me is the funniest thing of all. whenever they rant i just think of them working for the government and getting paid with tax dollars.

[tj2001]

15. Pretty soon government will be handing out huge bailouts

and telling private companies what to do when it comes to executive jet travel

[elocs]

16. My experience is that those who rail against socialism are clueless as to what it really means.

"Socialism" is the buzz and brand word of today as "communism" was in the 1950s.

[pnwmom]

17. Public schools are a part of the "nanny state." So are special services for

disabled people, including disabled children. So is Medicare. So are unemployment benefits.

The term "nanny state" is a pejorative term for the kind of progressive society that most Democrats support. Don't let the Rethugs and Libertarians convince you there's anything wrong with progressive ideals.

[ejpoeta]

24. well, in some senses i don't agree with being told what to do.

like what to eat or what i can and can't do. i agree with them on SOME things... like the thruway which was supposed to go away after 20 years. but all those workers would lose their jobs!! uggh. i don't agree with taxing cigarettes or pop as punitively as is being suggested. (not by you, but the government) and while a couple pennies might not seem like much now for the pop, look how many times they have raised the tax for cigarettes.

personally, i think people would buy better food on their own if they could afford it. i try to buy fresh fruits and vegetables, but am limited by my income. when we were really hurting, we lived on mac and cheese and ramen noodles. and even what fresh produce we buy we tend to let the kids have it and go without. Having to do that is why most of us out here are overweight and struggling with it. I never had trouble with my weight when i was younger. but i had emily and never could lose that weight. then i had ashley and never could lose the weight. not like i didn't try. now i have another one on the way and i keep thinking that it's going to be even harder trying after this. but i digress.

I am mad about all the taxes and how they keep taxing everything. but i think folks wouldn't mind so much if they saw their schools succeeding and not using old books. we went to the school for a parents lunch where we got to go back to the classroom and in Emily's cubby and bob recognized the science book from when he was in school. i insisted that they would have updated it since his days in school there. hopefully the cover is just the same is all. it did say copyright 1985. again, hopefully that was the original date for it.

i just hope that people like my sister get the hint that we can't expect to get things without having to pay taxes to support them. we all complain about the roads not being fixed, but then complain about having to pay taxes. I tend to not mind paying taxes.... just when it seems they are trying to tax anything and everything they can tax. i have a feeling they'd tax the air i breathe if they could get away with it.

[pnwmom]

31. What is needed, I'm sure you'll agree, is a more progressive tax system

with higher taxes on those who can most afford it -- rather than taxes on food and other necessities.

So it's not really a problem of having a nanny state, but of the tax system that pays for it.

[ejpoeta]

34. that i can agree with. too bad people like my family members seem to think

they are in that upper class. they aren't, but they think they are. go figure.

[pnwmom]

35. That's been the problem all along -- all the Joe the Plumbers who

think that higher taxes for the wealthy mean higher taxes for them -- and so they vote against the more progressive tax system that would be in their best interest.

[struggle4progress]

18. You should invite him to the next meeting of your worker-soldier council: tell him

the group is discussing how to seize the means of production

[lonestarnot]

21. Well where the fuck was he the past 8 years?

[Hannah Bell]

23. special taxes for pop-drinkers = socialism? i didn't realize the socialist programme

= paying off bankers on the backs of pop drinkers & smokers.

i thought it was something about workers controlling the means of production.

[ejpoeta]

25. i do believe that they think anything they don't like is socialism.

who really thinks about what our tax dollars go for. I know they were finding out in erie county when the county executive cut everything not essential.... closed the parks and everything. oh were people pissed. we take a lot of things for granted without even thinking aboutit. when i said something was socialism, it wasn't that I think it is socialism... it's that i was showing them the things they are calling socialism by saying how we are devolving into socialism. i don't think the people claiming socialism even know what that means. they hear it from rush limbaugh and faux news and go around using it without even knowing what the heck they are talking about.

[Deja Q]

28. Well, if what people are saying about Tim Geitner and Obama is true

then tell them that Obama is just continuing the same slope Reagan started.

:shrug: :apathy: :shrug:

:sarcasm:

[DailyGrind51]

30. The average working stiff IS over-taxed and underserved in America!

Hell, we work longer hours and don't even get secure pensions and health-care coverage!

[shadowknows69]

32. Cool, we're running out of food here.

[Kansas Wyatt]

33. The pop tax is a REGRESSIVE TAX...

Just like the cigarette tax is a regressive tax, and all are designed and implemented so that the fucking Wealthy Elite and Corporate America AVOID paying their FAIR share.

In case nobody has noticed, our alleged "representatives" have been placing more and more of the tax burden on middle and lower class Americans, so the upper class can continue to pay less. The Democrats are now doing it, by claiming they are doing it to make Americans healthier. It still boils down to the lower and middle classes paying more, so the rich can continue to keep more.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Socialism? IF ONLY !

I've challenged some of the wing nuts on my local newspaper's website to define socialism for me, and they can't. They just know that it's supposed to be something eeee-vil.

I've told them to go to the websites of the Socialist Worker's Party and read up on their positions and then come back and tell me how Obama's programs match those of the SWP.

No one has taken me up on it. If a wingnut ever debates me in person using the "socialist" meme, I'm going to enjoy watching them read the SWP website.