Attention Liberals: There’s No Reasoning with a Reptile

[Are_grits_groceries]

No, I'm not talking about actual snakes and lizards, and I'm not saying our opponents on the Right are snakes or lizards anymore than all of us are. I'm talking about the development of the human brain. I'm about to over-simplify some complex concepts, so bear with me, because I think understanding this model is vital to creating a more functional society. Most complex animals have a central nervous system that handles all the automatic functions of the body – the beating of the heart, breathing, anything your body does without having to think about it. Above this system developed a brain called the Reptilian Complex (R-Complex,) so named because it's the part of our brain we have in common with snakes and lizards. This part of the brain holds our survival instincts. It governs the "fight or flight" or "approach-avoidance" reactions. Its only emotion is rage. Its only function is survival. When threatened, it tends to bite.
<snip>
Now, if you look at that chart, there are three basic levels of Moral and Ethical Development. The Level 1 (Stage I) corresponds to the Approach/Avoidance, Fight-or-Flight instinctual response of the R-Complex. We see this level in small children and occasionally, college students.

Level 2 (Stage II) functions according to an external source of rules – the bible, the law, cultural or social expectations of family, friends, or neighbors, without question. This corresponds to the Limbic System's ability to be social in order to survive. Everything at this level is either agreeable or disagreeable. In other words, everything at this level is good or bad, black or white, familiar or foreign. This level is best described as Fundamentalism when taken to an extreme, and groups that function here can demand conformity to the ascribed code to the extent that they will enforce the code with violence – prison, hate crimes, war.

Level 3 (Stage III) is the level where you start to apply logic to problems, to ask questions and make comparisons. You don't necessarily agree with the people around you and you reach your own conclusions. This level corresponds, albeit imperfectly, to the Neo-Cortex.
<snip>
Now, the problem we face is this: How do you pull a majority of the population into a higher level of moral and ethical development? Reason won't work with someone stuck at Level 2. They don't have critical thinking skills and they aren't open concepts or cultures in conflict with the one they're born into. Now that the Republican party is facing its own loss of power and prestige, a threat to its survival, they have completely regressed to Level 1 functioning. Reptiles lack empathy, logic, and are based in rage and fear. It's no coincidence that I just described Dick Cheney's recent media blitz, telling us all we're going to die if we don't torture people in violation of international law even though torture doesn't work.

There is also the additional problem that the leaders of the Right have financial interests in keeping the status quo, and they understand these levels of functioning. They are extremely adept at manipulating people with good intentions but poor educations. The only solution I see to moving us Leftward is education, but we know our schools aren't up to the task right now and we can't wait several generations for change. The only way to reach most people is through the popular media. Short of strapping everyone down and making them watch Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann, I don't know how we reach them. I only know that it has to be done.

http://the-goddess.org/blog/index.html

Interesting take.

[LWolf]

1. How?

Our schools ARE up to the task, or would be, with the removal of authoritarian control and support for changes that would be necessary.

We're up to the task of teaching thinking.

We can't afford to wait for that, though. We need to begin changing things NOW.

Use the media. It's the voice that the masses tune into, every day.

So start with restructuring and re-regulating media.

[roseBudd]

3. No need to wait, social networking tools on MSM sites give us the chance

to prove our points while mocking the opposition.

Tom Hartmann wrote:

"Interestingly, the most powerful tool to hit all three brains simultaneously is good-natured ridicule, because there is no possible way to respond to it. Ridicule touches the thinking neocortex by referencing an issue, but also touches the limbic and reptilian brains, where our most lasting impressions are stored and feelings are anchored.

The only possible response to ridicule is logic, which only touches a third of our brains and thus always fails to undo the ridicule's emotional impact."

I don't post relentlessly everyday on a newspaper website in SW Ohio from July 2008 to the prsent because I am attempting to change the minds of hardened El Rushbo fans, I am writing for the moderate mushy middle.

I come to DU to stay informed of events and news as LBN is invaluable but my written activism is where it can do the most good, on an MSM site.

[LWolf]

6. Is mocking the opposition

likely to move them out of the reptilian brain?

[jgraz]

11. Actually, yes.

These people don't understand reason, but they do have an innate respect for power. It might go against our "librul" nature, but bullying and scorn turns out to be a very effective method for getting their attention.

That's why every time the Democrats talk about compromise and bipartisanship, the reptiles hate them even more. If Dems went after the Pukes and exposed them for the weaklings they are, you'd see the reptiles abandoning their party in droves.

[Mythsaje]

13. That's always made a certain amount of sense to me...

Problem is I got tired of dealing with the stupid.

[roseBudd]

17. All I can tell you is though the Obama ground game was awesome in SW OH I have no doubt...

that the online offensive myself and a small group of people mounted on the Cincinnati Enquirer's web site was read by moderates and independents and we won Hamilton County for the fist time since 64.

Not only did I fight smears, with detailed facts (Obama supports comprehensive sex ed in kindergarten) I attacked McCain relentlessly with facts about his past, his shady dealings that benefited camapign donors, his campaign manager who made millions lobbying for Fanny & Freddie, his role in deregulating financial markets, etc.

The Most Commented and Most Recommeneded features meant I could manipulate with the Help of DU, what millions of people in the SW OH media market saw when they visited the we site.

PM me & I'll send you the strategies and tactics document.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. That is indeed reasoning they understand. Classic bully mentality. n/t

[roseBudd]

19. the GOP has excelled at messaging, what sucks for them, radio and the army of dittoheads they no

longer control, are an embarrassment to the party on the internet. Their written communication skills are really bad, they come off as stupid or silly, and no thinking person would want to be associated with them.

I slay them with their own magazines, for instance the American Conservative's cover story in Nov. 2008 was Bush's Broken Record

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/nov/17/00006/

"His grand democratization plan reduced Iraq to rubble, drove Iran to arm, and provided terrorists with the ultimate recruiting tool. America, once renowned for her decency, became the aggressor her foes alleged.

At home, our failed attempt at global liberation has left us less free than ever before. Ancient liberties, cultural imperatives, even basic solvency were subsumed by the war effort. And the conservative movement that gave Bush his margin sanitized his radicalism at the cost of its soul.
All he touched turned to dross. Yet he departs unbowed, still a Churchill in his own mind.

It would be easy to leave him to that delusion and turn a more hopeful page. But Bush wasn’t alone in his failure: a country marched behind him and a movement cheered him on. If the failings of the Bush era are to be corrected—or at least not repeated—we need a clear view of where we’ve been."

[LWolf]

22. If I'm understanding,

you are suggesting that we encourage people to move beyond the functions of the reptilian brain by joining them in the reptilian sector, attacking them from that place to stimulate reptilian response.

You are attempting to legitimize bullying.

It sounds to me more like "if you can't beat them, join them."

I utterly reject that.

[jgraz]

23. Ever do any animal training?

You don't get a dog to "move beyond" their doggie brain. You "join them in the doggie sector" and express your desires in terms they can understand. You use pack mentality, dominance/submission, etc. All things that we reject in our daily lives.

The same thing applies to the "reptiles". You can use all the high-minded language you want and they'll just laugh at you. But show some strength, establish a power relationship with them at the bottom, and all of a sudden they start listening.

[LWolf]

26. Yes, I've done animal training.

Dogs and horses. And yes, it does require being able to think like the animal, and communicate like the animal.

That analogy doesn't hold water with me, though. Animals are much more straightforward about who they are, and how they operate, than people.

When I train a horse, I'm training to move OUT of the reptilian brain, the "fight or flight" response. I don't do that by scaring or bullying in order to trigger that response, but by introducing new stimulus in a non-threatening way, by small, short bits and pieces, until they become assimilated as normal in the environment.

Some desired responses, both canine and equine, DO come from the "automatic response" part of the brain. Again though, those aren't gained by bullying, but by rewarding.

We're not trying to "train" other humans; that would be de-humanizing and disrespectful, imo. Since I'm a teacher, I do know very well that long-term learning, long-term change in the way a student thinks about things, is not achieved by bullying, or by extrinsic punishment.

It's achieved by invitation, by offering a small tension caused by new, conflicting ideas, by creating a risk-free environment for pondering, playing with, and testing new information and ideas, and by respect for the process.

[roseBudd]

25. I reject not winning on issues or elections because we're too pristine...

to do what it takes.

My use of mockery is based on facts, never straw man arguments.

[LWolf]

27. I probably have a different definition of "winning" than you do.

I don't consider becoming the enemy in order to "win," actually winning anything. I consider it capitulation.

I'm not playing a game. I'm not cheering a team at a sporting event. I'm still waiting to "win" something.

A win for me means universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care, for example. I'm not winning anything. It's off the table.

I could list another 10 or 15 things that would constitute a "win" as well; I don't see any of those happening.

[roseBudd]

24. You may have noticed James Carville uses mockery very effectively as does Gibbs...

One of the mocking memes I coined is "Degarding Baby Deregulate" regarding the cause of the economic crisis.

[LWolf]

28. James Carville's mocking is so effective

that I haven't bothered to listen to anything he had to say since the early 90s. "Gibbs" is so effective that I don't even know who he is, lol. And I don't want to.

I guess that's because I prefer reason, thinking, and more highly evolved forms of communication, and because I don't respect "mocking" or "mockers," so don't give them an audience.

[roseBudd]

29. whatever, I'm not too good to do what it takes to win an election, at least the mockery is based on

facts

[Deja Q]

8. When I was in public school, 20~30 years ago, bullies had the run of the place.

Authoritarian control is needed more now than ever.

Let's just say I've returned to college and have observed some kiddies fresh out of high school. They don't give a shit. Are evil authoritarian people keeping them down?

Funny. Half the time we want rules and regulations because of greed and dis-civility run amok. The other half the time we don't.

[havocmom]

10. There are some, even on DU, who consider efforts to socialize kids as fascist

and anyone who suggests youngsters actually be reared instead of let to stay feral into their teens are authoritarians. It is not a kindness to let bullies stay that way. Not a kindness to the rest of a community nor to the bullies who will never understand why they are unlovable.

We can raise well socialized youngsters who are also encouraged to be creative individuals. Don't know why that gray area is so often ignored. Kids without boundaries are insecure, unhappy, and grow up clueless.

[Mythsaje]

14. There has to be a balance

I say teach kids to respect individuals, respect people, but question authority. It's possible. I learned my distrust of authority at my father's knee, but had to teach myself how to respect others and their feelings because he never really did.

[havocmom]

15. balance is essential. Critical thinking is too.

There can be both respect for others and individualism. Kids need boundaries that allow for healthy expansion of self.

[Mythsaje]

16. I had very few imposed boundries

So I had to make up my own.

[LWolf]

21. by "authoritarian control"

I mean top down, political control of curriculum and instruction.

Not behavior management.

We have very little control of behavior; very little that we can do to address negative behavior or disruption of the learning climate.

[roseBudd]

2. The most influential article I ever read was Cheney Speaks to the Reptile Brain...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0817-13.htm

it is why I use mockery relentlessly, not against the dittoheads, but the Republican leadership.

"Interestingly, the most powerful tool to hit all three brains simultaneously is good-natured ridicule, because there is no possible way to respond to it. Ridicule touches the thinking neocortex by referencing an issue, but also touches the limbic and reptilian brains, where our most lasting impressions are stored and feelings are anchored.

The only possible response to ridicule is logic, which only touches a third of our brains and thus always fails to undo the ridicule's emotional impact. "

[havocmom]

4. Latest issue of Smithsonian Magazine has interesting article about the social brain

Good news, that great magazine is online and here's the article: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/The-Social-Brain.html?c=y&page=2 Great article on something called von Economo cells in the brains of highly social mammals like humans, great apes, whales, elephants.

After reading it, I got to thinking about wingers I have known personally, and others who just sorta went bonkers and stopped being able to relate to other people in a caring, constructive manner.

There was mention of a particular type of "neurodegenerative disease called frontotemporal dementia" that results in lowered empathy and an inability to engage socially. Seems it shows damage in the two parts of the brain where von Economo cells are located, the Anteruor Cingulate Cortex and the Frontal Insula. Those are also the two areas where the von Economo cells are found. These odd cells are physically unlike other brain cells and it is speculated they process information faster, allow self monitoring, give us social awareness, enabling cooperation, empathy and working well with others.

Got to wondering if there wasn't more of this frontotemporal dementia around than is actually diagnosed. Also wondering if some people just don't come with the full complement of von Economo cells to begin with. We have heard of (or even met) people who just do not have any ability to feel empathy or judge right/wrong in their own behaviors. Have long speculated that evolution is still going on and some people (oddly, those most likely to deny evolution) are not as far along that particular trail as others. Maybe there is too much reptile brain and not enough Frontal Insula in some people.

So, yeah, arguing with some people is just a waste of time and effort. You may be using a conceptual language they do not have the capacity to understand because they are really are not equipped with the brains TO understand.

Work with those who have the capacity for understanding. Teach them to empower their social brains by giving them exercises to strengthen them. That is what socialization does, and we are seeing too many youngsters not getting that guidance by the adults responsible for raising them nor their communities at large.

Do more research into how the social brain actually works so we can understand how and why it fails in some. And accept that you can't win points with a drunk or a lizard. Be thankful they are fewer than those with the ability to cooperate for the greater good.

The article is really interesting and may shed light on the people we can't see eye to eye with because they seem unable to care about others.

Maybe we need to look into what makes us proficient at being social rather than what just makes us human. And the GOP should have a different mascot, cuz their actions are contrary to the empathetic and cooperative elephant.

[L0oniX]

5. It's a reptilian agenda I tell ya

http://www.davidicke.com/content/category/6/27/43/

:evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

9. *cough*

[Wednesdays]

7. K&R

:kick:

[Ho Tai]

12. Rebrand THEM

Hey, why don't we rebrand them the "Republican Antisocial Party?" It sure as hell fits!

[roseBudd]

20. Mock them, it is why the Daily Show and Colbert Report are two of our most effective tools.