How can people justify helmet laws and seat belt laws and yet

[Bandit]

allow smoking in public? :shrug: I have always been under the assumption that both helmet laws and seat belt laws are so the public doesn't have to spend more in health care costs on you..Explain how more money is spent because of lack of wearing a helmet compared to the damges from tobacco usage?

[Vickers]

1. I'm guessing that the folks against helmet and seatbelt laws are also against

any kind of smoking restrictions.

You know, "freedom" and all that shit.

:eyes:

[Haole Girl]

2. In a word...

money.

[LostinVA]

4. Yup, the Tobacco industry has some crazily influential lobbyists

[Buzz Clik]

3. Helmet laws and seatbelt laws are rank bullshit.

I find smoking to be an incredibly disgusting habit and I don't allow it in my home or my car. But, laws that forbid smoking in restaurants and bars are ridiculous.
___________________

EDIT: To avoid the obligatory "what about the children comments": Yes, seatbelts should be mandatory for children.

[patriotvoice]

5. +1 EOM

[MercutioATC]

6. Completely agree (n/t)

[hedgehog]

15. So, seatbelts should be obligatory for children because we

all develop admantium skeletons at age 18?

[Buzz Clik]

21. No. Because children are generally incapable of making responsible decisions.

When they reach legal age, they may destroy their bodies in any way they please.

[sarge43]

40. No, because children, especially infants, have neither the

life experience nor often the physical ability to protect themselves. Further, far too often they're under the 'care' of adults who don't give a damn.

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. So is paying hundreds of thousands in HC for uninsured idiots

If you're not going to use a helmet or a seatbelt and you're not insured, should I underwrite stupidity?

[Buzz Clik]

24. The age-old "paying for your injuries" bullpucky.

What fraction of the GDP is being spent on on "uninsured idiots" who splashed their brains while unhelmeted or were otherwise injured while not belted?

I'm not suggesting you take seatbelts out of cars or make helmets illegal. I wear a seatbelt religiously. I wear a helmet when I ride. But, not because it's the law but because it's a smart thing to do.

Do not pass laws to protect me from myself. Ever.

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. Are you kidding?

Are you sure you want to eliminate laws and policies based on the "but it's not very expensive" criterion? You might not like the results. If people are free to not wear safety devices in vehicles, then here's a new law for you:

People not wearing helmets or seatbelts who are involved in accidents may not bring suit against the state or the other driver. Even if the other driver is at fault.


In other words, if I can't pass a law that protects your better interests, then I damn sure want a law that confines your access to other people's money.

[MindPilot]

31. Would you feel the same under single payer health care?

[Dreamer Tatum]

33. Absolutely nt

[Buzz Clik]

36. You wouldn't that law; the insurance companies would make it policy

And, yes, I'm okay with that.

[Obamanaut]

35. I agree with what you said. I also wear a helmet when I ride, because

I think it is the smart thing to do - as you said.

Miz O is still with us because of a helmet. The neurosurgeon spoke with me in the ICU following her accident and said that we would have had no prognosis to discuss if she had not been wearing a helmet. Under 25 mph, 2 miles from home, after a Sunday outing she was thrown from her motorscooter. Without a helmet, no Miz O. Without the insurance we have, bankruptcy.

For many motorcycle accidents w/o helmets, the next expense is a funeral.

But I don't like being told I MUST wear one because "it's the law." Seatbelts too.

[MindPilot]

26. self delete

there was no way I could make it make sense after I realized it didn't

[NeedleCast]

25. +1

[Towlie]

7. Why do you only address smoking in public? Do you think smoking in private is healthy?

Personally, I don't care for government limiting my freedom for my own good.

Strangely, here in Florida everyone is required to fasten their seat belt in a car, yet motorcycles can be ridden without helmets. No matter which of those two laws you disagree with, you have to admit that the inconsistency is rather bizarre and senseless.

[R. P. McMurphy]

8. Damn it. Bandit!

Stop using logic and rational arguments! You are helping to destroy my ability to simultaneously believe contardictory ideas. It will be impossible to live in this society if I can't do that. :spank:

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. I go the other way -

I bicycle every day without a helmet. I would not wear a seatbelt if I did not live in a relatively congested traffic area where there's always a cop ready to ticket me for not wearing. And I absolutely believe that other people forcing me to breath their smoke verges on assault, and heartily approve of indoor smoking bans - I only wish we could enforce "no smoking within 20 feet of the door" bans as well, so I didn't have to walk through clouds to enter a building.

[NeedleCast]

27. So Basically...

You want to legislate away the thing you don't like, but want to be free to enjoy the things you do like?

[Buzz Clik]

28. I'd be curious to understand your logic --

You're annoyed about second-hand smoke. Is that because it smells bad or because it's unhealthy?

If you dump your bike, the injuries from banging your head even a little will be far more serious than the little whiffs of smoke you'll get entering your building. My suggestion: wear your helmet on your bike and hold your breath for the 5 seconds it takes to pass by the societal outcasts standing in the rain while ruining their lungs.

Enough of these laws already!

[SOS]

41. Also a bicycle commuter

Consider yourself lucky to be in the relatively clean environment of North Carolina.
My bicycle commute takes me through midtown Manhattan every day.
This small island (only 2 miles across) gets one million pounds of automotive exhaust per day.
On hot humid days the stench of burned gasoline and diesel is hard to bear. Some cyclists wear face masks to filter the particulates.
NYC overtook LA in 2006 as having the most polluted, most dangerous air in the nation.

Compared to the filth I breath every day, a smoker on the sidewalk doesn't even register.

[suchadeal]

10. Let's LEGALIZE freedom, not restrict even more.

We only need one traffic law: Reckless driving. The worst offenders are driving thru your quiet neighborhood right this minute.
They're driving too fast for conditions, they don't come to a complete stop at STOP signs, they only turn their signal lights on
after they BEGIN turning, and most of them aren't paying a bit of attention to what they're doing.

We might need a law against ignorance...and broadly define it to include inability to think logically, unwillingness to
allow others freedom to do as they please with their own bodies, and we certainly need to bring back Usury laws, and maybe
even public stockades for right-wingers.

[MindPilot]

13. I agree, I want the government to quit micromanaging my life

and manage the country.

[konnichi wa]

14. When I say stuff like that here, I get yelled at and called a filthy freeper.

:shrug:

[MindPilot]

20. "FILTHY freeper"?!! Wow now that is seriously double-plus-ungood

There are those on the left who seem to really really like authority as long as said authority is enforcing their rules.

[RB TexLa]

11. Because there is no justification for for any of those.

[konnichi wa]

12. Let's just make an omnibus law: It shall be illegal to do anything that could possibly

create any expense or inconvenience, insult, bother, concern, irritation, compromise or other effect on any other person in a way that discomfits him or her.

Problem solved!

[MindPilot]

16. Another good point!

We really need to move away from this idea that the solution to every problem is to make something illegal.

[kentuck]

17. Do not liberty and liberal come from the same root word?

How can we call ourselves liberals, yet give up our liberties so easily? It seems to me to be a contradiction.

[benEzra]

37. There is very vocal minority within the progressive movement

who thinks that liberalism is not about individual enlightmentment, empowerment, and choice, but about CONTROL. And if you don't support More Authority For Your Own Good, you must be a closet freeper.

I would categorize such as communitarians, not liberals, but that's where the mentality comes from, IMO.

[Dreamer Tatum]

19. Good question. If tobacco caused immediate and horrific damage immediately,

my guess is that smoking in public would not be allowed, either.

[JackRiddler]

22. Dictatorship of the Surgeon General Now!

Citizens! Line up for your shots and nictotine patches! Disruptors will be shot!

[Bobbie Jo]

23. Sieg Heil!

:eyes:

Edited to add: :smoke:

[zagging]

30. Give me The Matrix

Don't you know Neo was the bad guy in that flick?

[BlooInBloo]

32. Yah! Because OBVIOUSLY, if you can't do everything, then only option is to do NOTHING.

[Joe Fields]

34. Please explain how smoking in public creates added healthcare costs.

I see no correlation.

[benEzra]

38. I don't support helmet laws, and here's why:

Not everyone who owns a motorcycle owns one for commuting to work in traffic. A whole lot of people who own them, own them for scenic rides on lightly trafficked roads---for the feeling of freedom and the zen of living life to the fullest with the sun on your forehead and the wind in your hair.

Authoritarian control freaks don't seem to understand the concept of living life to the fullest, as they can't find that column in their actuarial tables. They see motorcycles only as transportation pods with a higher per-passenger-mile death rate than four-wheeled vehicles, which is why they wish to mandate that all motorcycle riders dress as if they are commuting in traffic.

I don't own a motorcycle, but if I do at some point (and I'd like to), I'd wear a full-face helmet and riding jacket when appropriate, and would go helmetless when appropriate.

I do own and ride a bicycle, and generally do NOT wear a helmet unless I am commuting in traffic. The per-mile risk of head injury when bike riding is about the same as that when walking, and I don't see the nanny types fighting for pedestrian-helmet laws yet.

[alarimer]

39. I am paying the taxes that support emergency rooms and EMT workers.

So some fucking piece of shit doesn't wear a helmet and gets into an accident, where does the money for EMTs to pick up his sorry dead ass from off the pavement come from? Those fines from non-seatbelt use and non-helmet use help pay for the damage that they cause to the system when they get into accidents. That's my take on it.

[benEzra]

42. If a motorcyclist gets into an accident, the EMT and ER workers will be just as busy

regardless of whether he was wearing a helmet or not. And as I said, it's not inappropriate to wear a helmet when riding in traffic. It is merely inappropriate to require helmets to be worn at all times by everyone, when bikes are very commonly used for purposes OTHER than getting from point A to point B in traffic. And I think the characterization of someone who isn't wearing a helmet as a "fucking piece of shit" is a reflection of that logical disconnect. Where does that level of vitriol come from, and do you feel the same way about sunbathers, surfers, and rock climbers?

Am I a "fucking piece of shit" because I only wear my bicycle helmet when commuting, and not when pleasure riding on lightly traveled roads?

Want to reduce motorcycle related health care costs? Get more riders into Motorcycle Safety Foundation training courses, encourage drivers of 4-wheeled vehicles to actually pay attention to their surroundings, and ban the high-beam white/blue daytime running lights on SUV's, pickups, and some cars that make motorcyclists get lost in the glare. Encourage helmet use when appropriate, but it's not always a necessity, for motorcycles OR bicycles.