'Single Payer' is stupid.

[denem]

Why on earth use this term with it's Orwellian overtones for Universal Public Health Insurance. In 1947, in both the UK and US. the term was National Health Insurance or National Insurance.

Medicare for all, Universal Public Insurance - whats wrong with that? Seems a lot more palatable to me than Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Zahler.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I agree. Can we have a snappy acronym instead?

Like the "Secure Managed Enhanced Governmental Medical Act"?

:P

[angstlessk]

3. I do believe that acronym would be SMEGMA...

[konnichi wa]

4. Wow, that's amazing...how the heck did you guess that?

:D

[angstlessk]

5. I prefer something like

"Idiots Guide to Lower Outlays Overall", or "Good Outcomes Developed Saves Lives And Watches Services" you know something kevetchy!!!

[NYC_SKP]

11. Snappy slogan possibilities! "You're in good hands with GODSLAWS"

Or, "We're covered by our IGLOO".

So much better than SMEGMA.

It was just a work in progress.

[NYC_SKP]

10. OH crap, how ever did I miss that?!

:evilgrin:

[KittyWampus]

14. how about a good acronym for our currents system? Bloodsucking Health Insurance Middlemen

BHIM

[closeupready]

2. +1. I've said this multiple times. Stupid term, does NOT help communicate with average

voters, at least, does not communicate precisely what it is people are advocating.

That alone is not going to make our side lose the argument, but it should be a reminder for future disputes that we need to keep our vocabulary accessible to a typical voter, rather than talk in esoteric terms that may sound pretty but don't make sense.

[Overseas]

33. I think it does communicate-- reducing administrative costs by paying one entity

Rather than the hassle of having hospitals and doctors need to submit claims to 15 different insurance companies, each with slightly different regulations.

Right now we have a MULTIPLE-PAYER system. Different forms and regulations and policies to handle with each group of patients. Different doctors included or excluded from their HMO networks. Etc.

Single payer fits the original ideas I heard about health insurance decades ago-- if everyone is in and noone is excluded, the premiums for the less needy balance out the cost of the most needy. Then when those less needy get older and need more care, the younger people's premiums cover their costs, etc.

But over the years, with health insurance being a for-profit industry, cherry picking became more and more intense. And policies for businesses charged more and more for older workers, thus adding in a further layer of age discrimination into the employment marketplace too.

[L. Coyote]

6. Single payer is not insurance. That's the point, remove the do-nothing profiteers.

Take out the non-productive gate keepers whose job is denying care to protect profits for the rich few.

Call it "Medical Care"

[DURHAM D]

8. Yep - you nailed it. n/t

[denem]

9. Single Payer is Insurance UNLESS

the money goes as tax into general revenue, and health funding is discretionary federal spending. That is the worst model that could be chosen. Even having a Social Security pot, can't keep politicians muddy paws away from it.

[DURHAM D]

12. You need to start over.

You have completely missed the point on the difference between universal health insurance and single payer.

[Oregone]

20. Wrong. Single-payer is insurance.

Single-payer (emphasis "PAYER") refers in a health care system to who is paying for the health care, rather than the delivery. Single-payer health care allows private doctors and clinics (who enroll and charge according to the negotiated rates) to charge their services to the single-paying insurance entity. It allows all people to be universally covered without having the government involved in micro-managing each and every clinic and shaping all innovations.

[L. Coyote]

37. Wrong, unless their is only one insurance company, the Public.

But hey, the semantics are confusing and not strictly applied.

[Oregone]

39. ding.ding.ding

That is exactly what single-payer is referring to. A SINGLE public-owned health insurance company who PAYS for services of physicians enrolled in their program. Hence the term, "single-payer".

Its not just a matter of semantics. Universal "Medical Care" (without insurance) refers to a radically different system that would be impossibly implausible to implement in the US overnight.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Actually, the British and Canadian systems are quite different

The Canadian system has doctors in private practice getting paid by the government, sort of the way Medicare operated in its purest form, before the intrusion of private HMOs.

In the British National Health Service, most doctors are salaried government employees. There's a parallel private sector as well.

The salary system has its advantages, in that doctors don't make extra money by scheduling patients in 15-minute intervals and rushing them through, and they also don't make extra money by ordering and charging for unnecessary tests.

[Cleita]

13. Change the "single payer" to "one payer". Watch everyone's eyes get big

while they sigh, "Eh...what?"

[closeupready]

15. I think many Democrats are shellshocked from that Harry and Louise counterinsurgency

commercial from Hillary's days. Fear of being labeled 'socialized medicine'. You know what people - voters are past that.

[Fovea]

16. American Health

That is what I would call it.

[Oregone]

17. I think term is most effective to the economic debate on health care

And the bottom line is what drives most politics in America (hence, its relevant).

Having a "single payer" to negotiate drug prices, reduce overhead, set finite costs for services, etc, makes sense to many, being that we are talking in the context of costs and money.

Medicare for all? That should like communism. That sounds like Welfare. :)

[Cleita]

18. I never knew a welfare recipient who paid to participate in his own welfare.

Wrong analogy. Try again.

[Oregone]

19. But in my experience, Medicare is already negatively conotated and compared to welfare

By many of the same you are trying to impress with your rebranding. Of course, many people also think Jesus is their best imaginary friend.

Fuck it already though. People just need to pick a term, and argue about it based on its merits, rather than some flashy name.

[DURHAM D]

21. Is that your Canadian experience? n/t

[Oregone]

23. No. Its my US experience before I moved.

Its called Medicare here. I have a CareCard. Its not equated to welfare whatsoever.

But Ive logged 3 decades in the US, and the thinking by (some) liberals and (most) conservatives about this issue is fundamentally different (anecdotally).

[Cleita]

25. Actually our privatized health insurance system is welfare, that is

welfare for the industry who pockets the money and don't pay much into actual health care.

[Oregone]

28. Haha....

Much of the great corporate economic system has welfare elements these days.

But just wait until the "liberals" get around to mandating you pay into that private insurance! Who knows, but it seems likely this will happen.

[Cleita]

31. The "liberals" aren't the ones mandating people pay into the private

insurance. It's the bought and paid for by the industry DLCers, who should go form their own money party as far as I'm concerned.

[Cleita]

22. What flashy name would you like?

The health care and insurance industries have already propagandized as "bad" National Health Care, National Health Insurance, Medicare for All, Universal Health Care, Single Payer Health Care and so on. They will do the same no matter what we brand it.

[Oregone]

26. One where people don't have to keep picking a new one every damn year out of fear

:)

Its clearly national public insurance that "single-payer" refers to, EXCEPT, its important that its a SINGLE national public insurance company (and it doesn't compete against private market companies). Therefore, the term "single" has some importance.

But hell, Ill let someone else pick the name now that "single-payer" is "stupid". Ill argue on its merits. Beyond a doubt, I don't think I couldn't convince anyone besides an Ayn Randian of its benefits and sense.

[Radical Activist]

29. Even people on welfare pay taxes.

So yes, they do pay into the system.
Medicare and Social Security are only payroll taxes so that people don't feel like they're accepting welfare. No one is "paying into" anything.

[Cleita]

32. Yes, I know. They pay sales taxes, etc.

However, the analogy the OP was using wasn't appropriate for his POV and I was trying to get him to reasoning out what he was trying to say.

[Oregone]

35. Uh, it wasn't an analogy. Whatsoever.

I was talking about how idiots (and other Americans alike) will perceive the term Medicare. I wasn't equating Medicare to welfare.

[Radical Activist]

24. No one knows what "single payer" means.

That's the failure of the left. Its a fucking joke for people to expect Obama to push single payer on the public when the left hasn't even done enough work to educate people about what it is, much less build wide support for it. Expecting Obama to do it all for us is a cop-out. Organize.

[Cleita]

27. Well, those of us who know what it is do our best to educate people whether

here on the internet, or like in my case, with the doctor I work for and the patient's we see. But even the organized single payer advocates and activists can't compete with the big bucks the industry puts into advertising and into campaign contributions to buy our politicians. Read this post I put up this morning and you will know why.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5717148&mesg_id=5717148

[Oregone]

30. True.

[Adelante]

34. Agree nt

[depakid]

36. It describes what such a systetem actually does

which is efficiently allocate scarce health care dollars for basic benefits from a single set of sources- rather than the fragmented and dysfunctional mess hat the US currently has.

And BTW: the British NHS is SOCIALIZED medicine, whereas single payer is not.

[L. Coyote]

38. Starting Over: For-profit Insurance in Universal Health Care is Absolutely Unacceptable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5717900