I have noticed, both in my own threads, and in the threads of others .......

[Stinky The Clown]

.... that there are some who almost seem to work at alienating allies over the finest of fine points.

Maybe it is simply a matter of style. Maybe it is intentional.

It is not even the same issue all the time. On issue A, it is most often and most loudly person B. On issue C, it is most often person D. Etc.

Why do some people seem almost self destructive in their quest for making some incredibly fine point? You're not winning any converts to your viewpoint.

No. I will not name a person or link to a thread.

And no, I was not the one in the argument today. I didn't even post in the threads with todays's examples. If this doesn't apply to you, please excuse me and ignore this thread.

[Cant trust em]

1. It's the difference between consensus building and argument making. NT

[zipplewrath]

2. Guess it depends upon goals

Some of presume that to some extent we are all "allies" here at DU (well except for the obvious Freeper lurkers). It isn't our intent to create them. We see DU as a place to work the "finer points" of an position. We're not looking for cheerleaders, we're looking for an discussion about places of agreement, and places of difference between otherwise like minded people.

[ContinentalOp]

20. You nailed it.

I always thought of this as a place to have serious discussions of important issues, not a place to reach consensus through compromises. We leave that to the politicians.

[Posteritatis]

3. That ellipsis is too long, therefore everything you've ever said is wrong!

Good point, though; I loathe that kind of hairsplitting pseudoargument. It's a silly kind of absolutism in which people have to agree with you in every little particular or they're Ebil, Ebil I Tells Ya!. Boo on that.

[CANDO]

4. Some people can't help themselves...

they are argumentative by their nature.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Says you.

[mmonk]

5. People feel passionate about what they believe in.

[Love Bug]

6. Some people just gotta be "right"

I've seen some nit-pick over some issue THEY AGREE WITH but because it wasn't stated EXACTLY how they would have stated it, they get nasty and pick a fight. They just have to be right, even if they have to be an asshole to do it.

[Fumesucker]

7. When it comes to politics, everything is a matter of perception and perspective..

And perceptions and perspectives differ, often greatly.

What may seem a fine point to you may be a huge issue to someone else.

I know I have issues on which I differ with practically everyone and I've learned to basically just shut up about them because I'll never convince more than a bare few that my view is the correct one.

Not everyone learns that lesson at the same rate, or ever for that matter.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. See .... that's smart ........

..... "I know I have issues on which I differ with practically everyone and I've learned to basically just shut up about them because I'll never convince more than a bare few that my view is the correct one"

I can usually do that .... but not always.

[Echo In Light]

17. I disagree, however, that it breaks down into M$M "relativism"

...with one view being no more or less credible than any other. That's the standard approach taken by our mainstream "news" in order to protect the guilty.

[Fumesucker]

27. That wasn't what I meant..

What I mean is that how people react to an issue is a matter of perception and perspective.

Of course there is always objective reality but not all that many, if any, people can be truly objective about things. We all bring our personalities and life experiences to any subject we deal with, particularly in the political realm.

Objectivity is hard to attain and for the vast majority of people requires considerable training to even begin to get there.

[Echo In Light]

32. Understood, friend. I didn't suppose you'd intended that point entirely

[EFerrari]

8. I do that sometimes. It's more that I'm trying to think through an idea

than that I'm trying upset anyone. It's a habit of mind and not a good one in some situations.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. I read your threads.

I agree with you sometimes. Sometimes I don't. We've argued a time or two, I think. But on balance, this thread, in my view, does not apply to you. You certainly were not on my mind when I wrote it. :hi:

[EFerrari]

31. It's a good reminder, though, to remember who you're talking to

as much as what you're talking about. :hi:

[Mythsaje]

10. Contrarians... We've got more than a few...

Doesn't matter what it is, they'll argue about it. The challenge is figuring out a way to say it that makes them run around in circles screaming "I can't fuck with that!"

[JuniperLea]

14. Contrarian...

Yes, I've had more than a few of that type in my life. Anything to be contrary... annoying as hell.

[Mythsaje]

21. I feel it's my duty to annoy them right back. n/t

[Posteritatis]

28. No we don't.

*ducks, runs, and dodges thrown objects* :P

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Without putting too fine a point on it...one person's fine point is

another person's issue. Without an example I have to disagree.

[JuniperLea]

12. Yep... I'm done here today...

No, no arguments here either... but I've sidestepped a couple that shouldn't have escallated to that point.

I understand anger, but when it's waged against those only trying to understand or help, fuck it, it's just mean old anger.

I've seen a lot of it and stayed away. Now I'm so frustrated by it, I think it's time to step away from DU for the day... or the week, depending on what I find upon my return.

How fucking sad.

[Echo In Light]

15. A general observation re DU is the majority of moderates vs a minority of leftists

So, when I'm posting I tend to attempt offering a counterview to what are considered the background assumptions of those who perceive their political position as 'moderate' ... views that, culturally speaking (corporate culture) get a free float down main street, are espoused by the dominant info-dispensing outlets, etc, hence explaining why the majority of Americans share in those corporate/state nexus-friendly views.

[Fumesucker]

18. I've seen a few polls on here though that would tend to make it fairly evenly split..

It does seem to vary somewhat by issue but I noticed one poll in particular a week or three ago that definitely seemed to be split almost down the middle between "moderates" and "leftists", I even made a comment on the thread about it.

[Mythsaje]

19. I don't even consider myself THAT far left...

Certainly no more so than Thom Hartmann. The problem is that corporatism has invaded even OUR side of the street to such an extent that no one can see the trees for the smokestacks.

[Fumesucker]

29. Yep, fish do not notice the water in which they swim..

And most Americans do not notice the ocean of corporate propaganda in which they exist.

[tularetom]

22. I really try to make it a point not to nitpick anybody's posts

I don't spend time here to argue. I do plenty of that with the wing nuts I have to associate with on a daily basis in the real world.

Although there are a couple of forums (fora?) I rarely inhabit because of the temptation to slap some posters upside their heads.

[kirby]

23. For the record...

You used '.......' but Ellipsis should be '...'

[madrchsod]

24. oh no i`ve been found out........!

wait a minute..i just outed myself...never mind.

[orleans]

25. link anyway?

jk! :+

[Old School Liberal]

26. Consider where you are

This is a forum for those possessing a somewhat higher degree of passion for politics--which tends to lend itself to pedantism as opposed to any semblance of pragmatic, or even sometimes self-critical thought. I suspect most are here for a pat on the back, with no real interest in refining their views. Alternatively, they want to expound their views on how every little aspect of government should be approached--either way, this sort of thing is here to stay, especially now that unity in the face of an impotent Republican Party is less relevant: the Bolsheviks presented a comparably unified front during their revolution, in stark contrast to the subsequent purges that followed their ascent. On a positive note, it affects the opposition in much the same way. My condolences.

[Jakes Progress]

30. But in your fourth line,

make that the third line of the text, but the fourth line counting the title, you completely miss the point.

Of course it is not the same issue all the time, but in your unfailing need to fail you forgot (on purpose maybe) to declare the manifest truth that, on occasion, it just might be the same point for some people all of the time.

Such arrogance.

(Whoops. I've been caught.)

[Horse with no Name]

33. No clue

But I find myself falling into that trap often and I will take the bait everytime.
Perhaps it was my post you read, I finally had to walk away.
With that being said...sometimes the crux of the matter is in the finer points and sometimes the point you are trying to make is being overlooked by something totally irrelevant.:shrug: