The Case for a California Bailout by the stim package...they don need much do they

[opihimoimoi]

whats 20 billion? 50 Billion? If Cali goes down the depression hole, the whole Nation is fucked...

There is NO CHOICE but to bailout fellow Americans...thats what tax dollars are supposed to do...help our brothers andd sisters in need...

but..them Pubs who nit about $300 dollars signs will Prolly protest thinking its Socialism....

Its time to work together by helping the Califorians....

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. California, for better or worse is one giant welfare state already.

The number of people who work outside or are otherwise don't directly/indirectly rely on the system of local, state & federal government to make a living/ survive seems to continue to shrink all the time. The problem is going to get worse as time goes on.

[opihimoimoi]

2. They need to create industries that cannot be exported...build build build

There is a lot that could be done...the Pubs wait for ideas then pounce on them to exploit...but that can be minimized..

tons of things but they fail to use their brains...the Pub Team has flunked another one....

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. It's very difficult to start a manufacturing business in California.

The odds are totally against you. The taxes are extremely high, there are legions of city, county, state & federal agency inspectors that come around on a weekly basis looking for ways to fine you for violations of one of a million codes, worker's comp, insurance, high rents, on & on. It's hardly worth the effort to bother with all of the grief.

[opihimoimoi]

16. Things will have to change then...as a last resort perhaps???

[Cant trust em]

3. California is afflicted by the desire to have top of the line services

without paying for any of it. We want to have the best colleges, the best freeways but no one is willing to pony up the dough to pay for it.

[opihimoimoi]

26. Over spending with regards to inadequate income...happens to most of us lower income guys.

[KamaAina]

4. Fine -- if "CEO" Ahh-nuld resigns

Seriesly, could a state be bailed out a la AIG, etc.? The requisite Federal oversight could present some knotty constitutional problems.

[opihimoimoi]

18. Yeah...but what other alternatives are on the viable table?

California cannot be allowed to go into depression...its a no brainer...

[ContinentalOp]

19. I don't see why we can't just get some kind of federal loan.

I mean, unlike the Big 3 at least California is guaranteed to still be around for a little while longer. :shrug:

[opihimoimoi]

27. They are only short 21 bil from some accounts ...a paultry sum for sure..

[KamaAina]

32. Or perhaps something like the Resolution Trust Corporation from the S&L mess

in effect, placing the Golden State into receivership.

Those with closer CA ties than I have (former SF and Oakland resident mid-'80s, but haven't even been back, other than to change planes at LAX, for fifteen years or so) are welcome to suggest nominees to head this.

Aside: As it happens, I am going to a regional conference in Sac next weekend. It will certainly be interesting to hear the CA attendees' take on all this.

[1]

6. nope. sorry, california. take care of your own problems...

start with prop 13.

then work on raising your taxes to fund your state programs.

you got yourself into this. get yourself out of this.

you get that california, right?

[ContinentalOp]

7. And where do you live?

:shrug:

[1]

8. in a state other than california. one that pays its bills. why do you ask?

[ContinentalOp]

10. Oh I don't know...

Maybe you're in a state that doesn't even have state income taxes and yet gets back more federal funding per federal tax dollar spent than Californians do. :shrug: Since you won't say it's kind of hard to take you seriously.

[1]

12. ok. not true on both counts, but i understand...

so... (again)

this is a california problem. take care of it, california.



do what i do. i look in my wallet. i take that amount and divvy it up amongst the people and things i choose to spend my money on.

if there is not enough in my wallet, i have to make choices or i get more money in my wallet.



there it is, california. your solution in two sentences...

[ContinentalOp]

14. Gee, so simple!

Why didn't we think of that before?

Clearly we should take some personal responsibility because it's not like there are any external factors at play here. I mean it's not like other states would ever interfere with our democracy, no siree. None of our ballot propositions are ever funded by out of state millionaires. Texan energy companies would never bilk our state out of billions of dollars while manipulating our democratic process. It could never happen.

Personal responsibility. I'll just keep repeating it to myself. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

[1]

15. "Why didn't we think of that before?" indeed! the question i ask myself on each of these threads...

it is such a simple concept. why does california have such a problem with this?

[ContinentalOp]

17. Because our state is held hostage by the Republican minority.

And we need a 2/3rds majority to pass a budget. What's so hard to understand about that? :shrug: It's a fundamental structural flaw, not a fault of the voters.

[1]

23. well then, fix that. that appears to be a flaw of the voters...

again, simple...

[ContinentalOp]

28. So simple.

Which approach should we take? Find some corporation that's willing to spend the millions of dollars necessary to get a proposition on the ballots and fight off what will be some vicious and well funded Republican opposition? Or wait until it's time to redistrict again (I think 2012) and somehow try to eliminate all of the safe Republican seats so that we can get a 2/3rds majority in the legislature? :shrug:

I'll get right on that right after I finish all of the other easy fixes I'm working on like eliminating paperless voting and fixing our broken electoral college.

[opihimoimoi]

24. Time to VOTE BLUE...the Pubs have done enough damage

[JVS]

30. And that structural flaw is why a bailout won't work.

If CA gets a bailout then it's telling the CA government and public that operating with that kind of system is ok.

[ContinentalOp]

35. This isn't a rogue corporation, it's a fucking state.

These are real people's lives in jeopardy. Children who won't be getting an education they need. But yeah, let's take a tough, "personal responsibility" approach to teach Californians a lesson, even though most of us had nothing to do with passing Prop 13.

[JVS]

36. If the structure isn't altered, there will always be the need for more bailouts.

The money exists within California to fix this, the state just needs to find a way to get it into the treasury. If it can do this, it's solved the problem. If it can't then no number of bailouts will fix the problem.

[SalviaBlue]

31. In other words, pull ourselves up by our boot straps?

Where have I hear that before.

[ContinentalOp]

9. Damn straight we should get a bailout.

In 2005 we got back $0.78 for every dollar we paid in federal taxes while Texas for example got $0.94. That $0.16 difference multiplied by the $289 billion we paid in '05 would have amounted to an extra $46 BILLION in that year alone. And we've been screwed like this for decades. If you look at the charts* that number has been steadily decreasing every year since 1994 so who knows what it's at now. You can probably take at least another cent or two off for 2008.

Even if we only got back an extra 5 cents on the dollar for the past 8 years, and if we only averaged $200 billion a year in federal taxes paid, that would add up to $80 BILLION. The rest of the country has been short changing CA for far too long. If we had been given the same benefits as Texas over the past 8 years, and paid say $200 billion a year, the difference alone would be $256 billion extra for our state.

But I don't expect to see anything in return. CA is just a fun punching bag and ATM for the rest of the nation http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?cand_id=P80003338


*http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

[democracy1st]

13. I remember Arnold the fool making fun of taxes,what a horrible governor for that state

[opihimoimoi]

21. Reality promotes better vision...soon..solutions will present themselves

This is all part of the National Financial System being pruned and, in some cases, overhauled.....

[JDPriestly]

11. As California and Michigan go, so goes the nation.

The underlying problem is outsourcing. As one of the states closest to Mexico and China, we have a huge outsourcing problem. We are bleeding jobs.

[opihimoimoi]

20. I see a couple of things for long term solutions...grow food in new and better ways

find ways to minimize water usage such as large scale hydoponic farms...

GREEN CITIES

[merh]

22. California wants federal funds then California should abide by

the US Constitution.

Prop 8 violates the US Constitution and until California's law makers or the courts correct it, they are not entitled to any bail out.

If federal highway funds can be withheld from the states that do not enforce seat belt laws or the BAC laws or the speed limit laws, doesn't it stand to reason that federal funds should be withheld from the states that don't respect the civil rights of all of its citizens?

[opihimoimoi]

25. The pressure builds..soon they will address all impediments and save the Depression

from happening

[JVS]

29. No, I don't think so. CA is still one of the richest states in the country and a bailout won't...

help to solve the essential problem behind CA's crisis, which is that the state is unable to match its tax revenues to its expenditures. The money is there in CA, but politically nobody seems to be willing to do what is necessary to get it to the state government.

[Octafish]

33. $2 Trillion for the turds what stole it. Nada for the people they bilked -- Us taxpayers.

Us, as in We the People.

You are absolutely correct, opihimoimoi.

As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. Even down the toilet.

PS: Ask us in Michigan about toilets.

[opihimoimoi]

34. Tis a tad embarrassing how the AristoPubs feels and treats the Mases

GOP...bully Loud Mouths using LABELs as as strategy...he is a Terrorist, a Socialist, Inexperienced....

She is a RACIST, Intellectually Lacking, too Dumb, etc...

Seems its all they do...whine and Nit ...They are STUCK on LABELS

FogHorn GOP Bullies...loud, overbearing, strident, persistent, RUDE, DEMANDING....and WRONG....