a a does not have to be christian/god based, if

[david13]

you don't interpret it that way. Sure you can interpret it any way you want, particularly if you don't want it to work for you.
Or not. The term used is higher power. That cannot be a door knob, as that is not a higher power than you. You can consider the ocean a higher power, as, who is more powerful than the ocean?
No one, but more important, not you.
The idea of powerless is that you do not have the will power to quit drinking or drugs. You are powerless over drugs and alcohol.
Therefore, mustering up your will won't help. You need to surrender. You need to give up the battle against it and admit that it is more powerful than you.
Then you can take the road to recovery.
a a does work for some, if they want it to. Most don't want it to. So it doesn't.
There are many misconceptions about it inside and outside a a. The greatest being to interpret it so it won't work.
It does work for many. And, indeed there are other means.
It is not a program of going to meetings. It is a program of 12 steps and 12 traditions. Interpret and apply them so they work for you.
You do not have to go to meetings forever. You can recover. The first page of that book says we who "have recovered". Past tense.
You can embed sobriety so deeply into your life that it becomes first nature to you. So that you live the rest of your life, one day at a time, without any drugs or alcohol, or any craving for drugs or alcohol.
You do not have to end your life, drunk, high, and face down in the gutter. There is a way out. Your faith to accomplish that is not god, nor jesus, not mohammad, budha, sidhartha, but the faith in you that you can do it. That is the faith you need.
dc

[eShirl]

1. Guess it's a good thing I'm not an alcoholic

because I don't believe in any "higher power" over me, and I would refuse to engage in mental gymnastics over something like that.

[enlightenment]

2. Not trying to start a debate, but your argument (or the AA argument)

seems a bit illogical.

If success in beating an addiction is down to (and I quote your post) "the faith in you that you can do it", they how does "The idea of powerless is that you do not have the will power to quit drinking or drugs. You are powerless over drugs and alcohol" fit?

How can success be based on the belief in one's PERSONAL ability to quit when one is required to admit that one does not have the ability to do so without some sort of external (unmeasurable/unquantifiable) power assisting them?

How does it work to tell a person that they have to admit that they cannot overcome their addiction (they are powerless) and at the same time tell them that the POWER to overcome it lies within them?

Makes no sense to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Never made sense to me, either.

As an atheist going to AA, and moving from the midwest to the south where the meetings were even more god-centric, I could never reconcile having no higher power with depending on a higher power.

Fortunately, I came to realize, eventually, that I (like probably 50% of AAers) was never an alcoholic - merely a drunk. You know, those questions "you may be an alcoholic if..."? Even if 7 of 10 apply, the operative word is still MAY be, not ARE and alcoholic.

[Kajsa]

3. Thanks, David.

There are a lot of misconceptions out there
regarding the higher power aspect of our program.

A higher power is ' a power greater than ourselves'.
That's not difficult to find in our world.

[Strong Atheist]

5. .

:eyes:

[spanone]

6. went to one meeting w/a friend...it was god, god, god, god, god....how else do you interpret it?

[TexasObserver]

7. Voo Doo, Santeria, and Astrology ... they work if you work it.

Tarot cards, goat entrails, and tea leaves, too.

Scientology, Unification Church, and Falun Gong work, too.

It all starts with what each person believes, or is willing to believe. The mind can convince the body of almost anything.

If it works for you, great.

[get the red out]

8. I am sure you know most here hate AA with passion

Personally I agree with what you wrote, which means I must suffer scorn also for admitting it ;).

You probably couldn't have pissed people off any more than if you had said you support water-boarding, LOL!

There is a recovery group at DU that could use a bit more action though!

[chaplainM]

9. According to Penn and Teller,

AA closely guards its statistics, but the ones P&T got hold of showed that the success rates of AA participants match exactly those of non-participants.

[graywarrior]

10. AA works because of one drunk helping another. Period.

Whatever else you put into it is your choice. Some stay longer than their supposedly "recovery" date because the principles of AA says to extend a hand to a new member if they want to get sober.

We alcoholics are always tryint to figure this shit out. It's a simple program for complicated people who want to control the entire fucking planet. Just don't drink, go to meetings and LISTEN.

[Lisa0825]

11. Of course, the old excuse, it only doesn't work if you're not doing it right.

There are now many alternatives to AA, including MM, which do not require one to deem oneself "powerless" to anything, even a doorknob.

I have read studies regarding AA's success stats, which they blame on the anonymity and "it only works if you work it." However, how many programs can the government(as in police, courts, etc) FORCE a person to participate in, without having proven that they actually work? Hopefully more municipalities will begin allowing alternative programs as an option, both for atheists, and those who just don't fit the AA mold.

Even when you try subbing your power of choice, AA sounds too much like fundy-think to me. I do not believe I am powerless. I do not believe that abstinence is the only answer. People can re-learn how to moderate. It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for many. I have changed my habits, and I do not consider myself a failure for continuing to enjoy alcohol.

www.moderation.org has a lot of links to articles and studies on the issue.

[Control-Z]

12. I have had years of experience

with the program and my husband. He remains despicable, cocky and self centered. He uses "staying sober" as an excuse for controlling and using people. In men's meetings they laugh and talk about being narcissists. Haha. Too funny, huh? - these guys who just keep using and abusing their spouses, family and friends - sucking the life out of them in the name of sobriety.

And there is a very special meeting/program just for the family and friends, where they can learn how to live with the abuser, and to accept blame. Really nice. Don't stop the abuser. Teach the abused to handle it better.

Worthless pieces of...uh.., never mind. Just blech.