If You Had Dual Citizenship, Would You Stay Or Go?

[Mr. Ected]

If you had the legal option of living in another country, would you do it?

Is it necessary to live in America to effect change in America?

[liberalmuse]

1. I'd fucking go.

If the choice had to be made right now. I love my country, but can't abide the asshats. I suppose there are ill-bred asshats in every country. It would just be for a couple of years, just long enough to appreciate the special kind of asshats American tends to breed.

[Mr. Ected]

7. I'd Avoid The Principality of Asshattia If I Were You

Other than that, the world is your oyster.

[liberalmuse]

14. Where is Asshattia, exactly?

Maybe I could go to Machu Picchu and avoid them?

[neverforget]

45. Uranus?

:shrug:

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. Does Uranus have rings around it? Best bar question I've ever heard. Be careful who you ask though

[Merlot]

8. Yes, there are ill-bred asshats in every country

but if the country didn't speak english as a first language, I wouldn't be subjected to listening to them and could live in ignorant bliss.

After the past 8 years, not to mention the Clinton "impeachment" I'm pretty burnt out!

[liberalmuse]

16. My very first political protest was against the Clinton impeachment.

Before that, I was ignorantly blissful. Oh, the good 'ol days!

[Oregone]

66. Then go already...

You can't make that choice right now until you apply to immigrate. Why is it people would leave if able, but some do nothing to be able? It seems contradictory barring circumstances that would prevent a successful immigration.

[Mr. Ected]

76. No Immigration Papers Are Required With Dual Citizenship.

Keep focused on the question as asked.

[Oregone]

80. No shit, but we also live in the real world

And in the real world, people can apply to move somewhere and actually do (without citizenship).

If people are so willing to move in this hypothetical, why, in real life, are they unwilling to even take the first step in moving?

[Mr. Ected]

90. I Have Dual Citizenship. Been There, Done That.

Moving to another country is a massive undertaking, particularly with children. A lot of people told me that I was 'courageous' for making the move; there's a lot of chatter about a desire to expatriate, but very few cases of action.

PS - It was well worth it. Why we moved back to the USA, 8 years later, is beyond me. THAT was my screw-up.

[Oregone]

101. Yeah, hey, Im not saying its just easy-breezy

You'd just think for those who said they would leave in a minute IF they could, they could at least put forth a half ass effort to be able to in real life.

I moved with children too (well, at least one, and had the other abroad to be born as a dual citizen). Yeah, its tough. Life is tough. You just live, experience, roll with the punches no matter where you are. But at least try and be where you think you could be happy, or at least not neurotically angry. It might help your kids to

Yeah, there certainly is a lot of chatter. I left in Bush's America (much of that really remains today), and I just got to thinking, despite the cutting rhetoric, maybe most critics didn't really think Bush was really *that* bad. Maybe they really weren't losing sleep over their tax dollars funding war and atrocity like I was. Maybe they really weren't saddened to their hearts to see the constitution eroded and civil liberties stripped away. Who knows. It certainly bothered me and I wanted to run away from it all, and then, I saw something to run to.

But its so easy to sit there and criticize, and promise you'll leave if you could, and then not do a damn thing about it. Where does that get you in life? I mean, if its all not important to you and your happiness, thats fine. Just don't let on about it all.

[northernlights]

104. maybe they've taken the 1st step

i.e. research, and discovered that it's really, really hard to go. If you're too old, if you don't have enough moolah, if you don't supply shortage skills, etc. We're really not overly welcome anywhere, any more. you need to have a good reason for another country to want you...

[benld74]

2. IF I had dual along with the funds I would NOT live here,

but plan from afar to give/take my country back to where/who it belongs to!!

[NoSheep]

53. No "malintent" (please)...but where would you get the funds?

[Oregone]

69. You may stop planning once you start enjoying your new country

:)

Just saying. We are all only human you know. Sometimes there has gotta be a point where you take a step back, breathe, and live. Yeah, not having your panties in a ruffle over Universal Healthcare, Gay marriage, and foreign imperialism on your tax dollars helps you to do that. Is this selfish? Yeah, and so is human nature. But maybe you may get more peace of mind sending your money afar to third world countries than the fucked political system of the US of A. Just a thought is all.

[emilyg]

3. I came from a

different country. Will live out my life in America.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. I'd stay now. I would have moved after W was elected in '04. n/t

[vadawg]

5. ive got multiple passports including a US, im staying, the grass isnt always greener.

[BuyingThyme]

6. How's the food?

[marmar]

9. I'd come back to visit family and friends....

Then gladly jet back to my canalside walk-up in Amsterdam's Jordaan district, or my apartment in the Canal St. Martin area of Paris, or my High Park condo in Toronto.

[paulsby]

10. depends on the country

as a frequent traveler, i can't think of any country i'd rather live in that the US.

although those in the running include: Costa Rica, Costa Rica, and ... Costa Rica.

[santamargarita]

11. I'm not a dual-national and I intend to fight these goddamn fascist pigs...

and half-assed Democrats.

[struggle4progress]

58. Bingo

[Oregone]

70. Seems like a lot of perpetual fighting

Some have an aversion to such "conflict" (rather than thrive from it). Some people enjoy a nice stroll in a beautiful place instead of a symbolic hike up a 90 degree inclined hill coated in oil and the blood of third world inhabitants.

[Greyhound]

12. My shadow would have to catch the next flight. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

95. LOL!

:spray:

[ecstatic]

13. If I lost my income here, and

had to start over from scratch,yes; but right now my income is tied to my location.

[saracat]

15. If Ihad the money, I would go. I am really tired of the anti intellectualism and

hypocrisy that defines this country.And plenty is found on both sides of the aisle. I probably wouldn't care as much in a country not my own and for certain most other countries are better educated!Most That I would be interested in wouldn't be the moralistic asshats we are!

[TransitJohn]

19. I'm tired of the anti-intellectualism,

hypocrisy, and military fetishism that defines this country. Just thought I'd add the third strike. :hi:

[Hardrada]

37. It seems like every day is Memorial Day and solemn military rites

and it does get very tiresome, all this MSM love of the True Heroes who, I hope, will sometime waken up to the way they are being used by the rich.

[NoSheep]

54. So am I. How are we to do this? What's the plan? I'm serious. Any ideas?

[Lorien]

61. Oh yeah. Big time.

I'd move to Canada even though I hate cold weather. I'd move to New Zealand in a heartbeat.

[downeyr]

17. Once I was done with college...

I'd leave.

[jody]

18. I object to dual citizenship that allows someone to vote in U.S. elections and also another country.

[vadawg]

20. i object to your objection, no idea what the problem is

dosent the elected officials i vote for here spend my taxes and make decicions that effect me, so as a citizen of the US shouldnt i get a say.

[jody]

22. You do know that some with dual citizenship can vote in the U.S. and their other country, don't you?

[vadawg]

23. yeah, i get to vote here as im a US citizen, i can also vote in other countries that i hold passport

for, i dont see the problem, i pay taxes here, i am a citizen so i vote, i pay taxes in other countries, i am a citizen/subject there so i get a vote, i dont have a problem with this.

[jody]

25. I have a problem with it and would like to see laws passed making it illegal. n/t

[vadawg]

27. why does it make a difference to you if i can vote in other countries other than the US

as i said im a subject/citizen and pay taxes on business interests so dont i have an obligation to vote.

[jody]

97. So, because you "pay taxes on business interests" in a country you have a right to vote in that

country's elections?

[LanternWaste]

86. What is the fundamental origin of the problem you have with it?

What is the fundamental origin of the problem you have with it? I'm afraid i don't see any qualitative or measurable problems resulting from it. So it seems to beg the question: what are the precise and relevant moral or legal problems you believe it inherently contains?

[Greyhound]

24. So what? Of all the universe of obscenities committed daily in your name,

someone voting here and in another country is an issue?

[jody]

26. Yes, it is for me. n/t

[Greyhound]

29. Not to nag, but why? I honestly don't see what significance it has. n/t

[Selatius]

57. Well, it's a minor issue anyway. The federal government has far more massive problems than this. nt

[valerief]

21. I'd go to a socialized, civilized country in a heartbeat. nt

[JI7]

28. i would like to live for a while in another country for the experience

with globalization you don't have to live in a certain place to effect change. but i think it helps in that you know about the place.

but i think it could even help bring change here if we learn stuff from others.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. I'd go somewhere that had decent health care

and wasn't involved in wars of choice. :-(

[Forkboy]

31. I'd leave if I could, but not because of any dislike for America.

I'd just love to experience other cultures and ways of life. Japan would be my first pick, but there's numerous places I'd love to try living in.

[azmouse]

32. I'd never leave America.

This is my home.

[Lorien]

62. Have you ever traveled overseas? nt

[azmouse]

93. No

and I can honestly say I'm not interested in traveling. I was raised in a poor family that never took vacations and I've never gotten into that habit. I don't speak any language but English and don't have any wish to learn to learn new customs or ways.

I'm VERY happy with where I am. Why change something that is making me happy?

[vadawg]

65. this is the way i look at it to now, i have found a home i love

so ill be happy to sit there and see out my time.

[Oregone]

71. How can an entire country be your "home".

I can see how a house, a family, a town, a community, and perhaps even a state...but as for a federal governing institution? Isn't that vastly stretching the definition of "home"?

[azmouse]

94. Because it is.

This is what I am used to. I know and like the customs of the country I call home. And while I LOVE living in the American southwest I would live anywhere in this country before I would chose another country to live in.

[Oregone]

99. "I know and like the customs of the country I call home"

You say that like its one big homogeneous happy family that actually has standard customs.

Ive lived East and West, North and South of the country. Ive spent substantial time in the backwoods, hippy hills of Oregon, and south of the Mason-Dixon in the Shenandoah Valley.

And I also now live abroad. I can tell you, there are few places, even in America, closer to my "home" of Oregon than British Columbia. There are a thousands of other places Id rather live in around the world than in than many, many places in thie USA.

[azmouse]

100. So you've found a location on Earth that makes you happy?

So have I!

[Oregone]

102. I just find it odd your location is defined by arbitrary lines drawn on the map hundreds of years ag

By people you never met and could probably hardly relate to anymore. Such a "location" encompasses the better half of a continent, where heterogeneous groups (of different makeup by sub-geographical region) live that have different customs, attitudes, beliefs, etc. To someone on Oregon, they can travel 10 hours north and find a place much more similar to home (in culture/geography/ideology) than if they travel 25+ hours east and stay within the magic lines. But regardless, those lines define "home" simply because they were established via land deals and conquest hundreds of years ago. Yeah, it seems odd.

Once you've been to a couple foreign countries, you may just realize how much each state (or city) in the USA may be "foreign" to another. While one could cite the value of that in a "home", that, in no way, undermines the value of travel, as you would experience the same effect to another degree.

I think I am realistic enough to realize that abroad I can find many places that feel more like "home" to me than many in the USA, just as I can find many that feel more foreign to me. I welcome the experience of both.

[pecwae]

82. With you.

I've traveled fairly often. Every place I've been is a great place to visit, but I'm always happy to be home.

[Generic Brad]

33. I am a citizen of the world

Yes. I would go.

[Gwendolyn]

34. I do have dual citizenship and I come and go.

I've also been illegal when I wanted to live in Prague and just tool around like an ass. Best time of my life.

Yes, it's necessary to have some connection to the country you want to affect change in, and it's necessary to live there and be a citizen.

[vadawg]

36. i love prague, the most georgeous women on the planet

its like where supermodels are mass produced :)

[Gwendolyn]

38. I know. Long 'n leggy.

:) Lots of bad stuff too though. Lol, never got into a cab that wasn't a complete metal box advert for prostitution.

[sendero]

35. No...

.... but only because I have family here and my wife has health issues that might be difficult to treat in another country.

Aside from that, there are lot of countries where the overall quality of life is way better than here, and without those constraints I'd leave in a second.

In terms of simple political corruption, we are now at the level of a third world country.

[kimmylavin]

39. I'm working on my dual citizenship.

And no, I couldn't leave.

[OswegoAtheist]

40. I do have dual citizenship.

I also served 4 years in the US Army, and as soon as I can, I'm moving back to Canada. It's where I was born, and where I feel "at home" the most. I like America, but I don't love it (sorry).

Oswego "The plus side is that I can also fly to Havana anytime I feel" Atheist

[Zavulon]

41. I'd go.

Like a shot.

[superduperfarleft]

42. I'm counting down two years until I move to Canada.

So yes, I would go faster than you can blink. I'm so tired of the bigots and typical American "fuck you I got mine" attitude, I could scream.

[NoSheep]

55. Why wait two years? I'm sick of the same shit. PHYSICALLY SICK. So why aren't we leaving now?

I really want to know. Why aren't we just all packing a bag and hitting the road?

[Lorien]

64. If it were easy I'm sure we would be

[Oregone]

68. It takes years to legally immigrate to certain countries, Canada included

Personally, I hit a bump in the road, but it took like 5 years. As soon as my Visa arrived, I left rapidly

[superduperfarleft]

78. The immigration process is long and expensive.

I'm extremely fortunate that I'm even able to consider Canada.

[NoSheep]

103. I don't know how much more I can take before my head comes apart.

I've just been a wreck. I've had to turn off all media for a while and just listen to music. I needed a damn break.

[beaglelover]

43. I'd go for sure....

this country is so fucked up.

[Stevenmarc]

44. No reason not to stay when you already have a Plan B

[Joe the Liberal]

46. I'd go but I just don't know where......

Somewhere that has access to health care for sure, the US will always feel like home though.

[stray cat]

47. I would stay

[tularetom]

48. I spent a year working in Brazil

And I've been back to visit twice, but I don't think I'd want to live there.

I also spent about nine months working in Trinidad. If I were fifty years younger and unmarried (or maybe not), I'd go beck there in a heartbeat.

But right now I'm too fucking old and settled to even think of leaving the US. No matter how bad it gets.

[BigBluenoser]

49. I'm in the immigration process for American citizenship right now...

Moved from Canada a few years ago. I plan to be a US resident (and citizen) until I die. I like Texas, and I like the US of A in general. US Politics is fucked up in this good vs evil ideological posturing that is done for the base of each party. We need at least 2 more parties down here that are contenders at a minimum at the state level. US Politics has infected Canadian politics hard too. The genteel rivalry between the cons & libs has changed into a reflection of that in the USA.

Pre-packaged ideologies suck to begin with. When there are only two it really sucks. Especially when any deviation is considered "evil".

I'm highly educated, middle class & white, anywhere in the anglosphere is pretty friendly to me. I don't have the same challenges that many americans do.

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. Paraphrasing The Clash...

Instead of peace peace peace
You’re happy when we're on our knees
One day is fine the next is black
This country's mine I want it BACK
Well come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

aaaaaOOOOOOOOOOO!

[riderinthestorm]

51. I've got it. I'm planning on going next fall.

I'm going back for my PhD. Between the health care savings, lower university costs and a real chance for grad school at that level to be subsidized by the government, it's a no brainer for me.

I'm sure I'll be back in a few years.

[Oregone]

72. "I'm sure I'll be back in a few years."

Well, at least, good for you for trying and opening your mind a bit!

People really do things differently in other countries (live, politics, economics, families even). Its awesome to step into another culture, no matter how different. Perhaps America would be a better place if more Americans were willing to do so and bring back a little piece of knowledge or experience.

[riderinthestorm]

83. I've actually lived abroad for years at a time so this isn't a huge stretch for me

My dual citizenship is with Ireland which isn't too terribly different (and my crazy Irish relatives have probably given me a wee form of immunity?!)

My husband and I own a farm here, and my family is here so I'm sure I'll be back. Thanks for the kind words. I completely agree - it would be great if Americans could get out and experience other cultures and some diversity of thought and action. Frankly, I think if more Rethugs actually LIVED for any extended time period in France or Sweden or Germany (for example) and sampled their "socialism" I'm guessing they wouldn't be so reflexively hostile to some (part? all?) of it's ideals.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. I agree: One of my fellow translators noted that

his relatives swing right or left politically depending on how much overseas experience they have. His most conservative relatives have hardly ever left their home county.

It sure works in my family. I'm the out-there Leftie in my family, and I'm also the only one who has lived overseas and the only one who has been more than four times.

[NYC Liberal]

52. NO way would I leave.

[azmouse]

96. Sadly people like us are always in the minority here.

I really don't understand the hatred some have for their own country. No where in the world is perfect.
I suspect many of those that would go, wouldn't be happy in their new location either. They would always find fault with something.

[-..__...]

56. If Montana actually did succeed in seceding...

I'd make the move.. hell, I probably would even if they didn't.

[KillCapitalism]

60. I'd leave in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure where I'd go, but somewhere that doesn't have an insanely high cost of living like the US would be nice. Costa Rica maybe?

Denmark or Sweden might be another option, the cost of living is high, but nearly everyone there earns a living wage, and you actually get something for your tax money such as universal healthcare, and generous vacation leave time that's paid.

[Vidar]

63. Go, if I could afford it.

[Oregone]

67. I would and I have gone

So Long, and Thanks For all the Pell Grants.

[Kellen RN]

73. I live in Oklahoma,

if I moved to anywhere in New England or the West Coast it would be like a new country. In fact I'd take Salt Lake over this festering hell hole.

[diamidue]

108. My condolences. n/t

[BOG PERSON]

74. Yes, I would leave, but not to "effect change"

The US population is so fat and selfish and boring. Nuts to you guys.

I have many ill-gotten Yankee dollars, so people in my third world country-of-origin will pretend to respect me for a while.

[vadawg]

75. lol the most honest post ever on DU

much respect to you as you live your life out on the yankee dollars with your fat annoying wife

[mmonk]

77. I would get my sons to go. I don't like what I see here. For me, I'm too old.

[LWolf]

79. Depends on how the other place compares.

Would I have a job, civil rights, health care, affordable housing, clean air and water, affordable transportation, a voice/vote, a healthily produced food supply, and a place to keep and ride my horses in the other place? Is there open space? Land protected from development?

I'm not a nationalist. I'm not a patriot. I love my country, but my country is the land. I love the west; the mountains, the valleys, the rivers and lakes, the coast. I feel connected to them.

I like the U.S. Constitution. Not perfect, but based on ideals I can support.

I don't have any emotional attachment to my government.

[varelse]

81. I'd stay

I like it here - and this is where my job, friends, and family are.

[40sDemocrat]

84. I would never leave my country for any reason.

If you were to spend anytime in foreign countries as I have, you would be quite happy to stay in America.

[Ikonoklast]

85. I have dual citizenship.

My family is mostly in this country, and it seems like they all come back to the US sooner or later.

This is the country of my birth, and I'll stay here trying to make a difference, however small a contribution that may be, until either I die or they ask me to leave.

[CBR]

87. Maybe. I would live overseas but everytime I go on a vacation

or study trip in other countries I end up homesick. It might be tough for me even though I enjoy other nations -- especially those in the Caribbean.

[backtoblue]

88. I couldn't afford the plane/bus ticket to leave even if I wanted to...

:(

[Echo In Light]

107. You supply the oars, I'll bring the boat, cooler and sunscreen

:hi:

[backtoblue]

115. My friend, you have a willing participant!!!

call me when you're ready! :hi:

[LanternWaste]

89. Back and forth...

Back and forth. I've lived abroad, I lived in the states. Both have wonderfully redeeming qualities, and both have less than admirable qualities. I could see myself, should I have the money to do so, living six months of the year in the states, and the other six months in my other homeland.

People tell me that a man cannot serve two masters... it's a good thing our countries, our homes, and our governments are not our masters.

[closeupready]

92. I actually have lived abroad, in France. While there is much to love there,

don't overlook all the good things about being a US citizen and living here.

[NeedleCast]

98. Stay

I like it here in America. Plus all my stuff is here.

[Arugula Latte]

105. Hard question if you have elderly parents/parents-in-law and siblings you're somewhat close to.

I daydream about it all the time, though, particularly with regard to Italy, France and Spain.

[diamidue]

106. That's what it comes down to for me, too.

I've lived in other countries - even immigrated to one of them. But it comes down to family. I want my family and friends around me as I get older. Sure I could retire some day to Italy or Costa Rica, etc., but my children would have a hard time finding jobs there, so I would have to leave them behind.

Even when I was younger, living in other countries alone was terribly lonely.

If I ever DID decide to leave the USA again, I'd make sure I traveled to where I wanted to move many times before I actually moved. You need to meet people and develop a support system there before hand.

[bikebloke]

109. Go in a flash

I made my decision 30 years ago, and certainly tried. If I wasn't so honest, I'd have stayed illegally or married someone just to stay.

[mnhtnbb]

110. We have the legal option to live in Panama, having obtained permanent resident visas

about 2 years ago. We have to make the decision whether to renew them before they expire March 2010.
Our inclination is to renew them.

I don't want to live in Panama full time. Hubby said after the election of Obama, he no longer felt
the desperate need to have somewhere else to go.

We developed our Panama "escape hatch" option after Bush was granted another four year term in 2004.

[LostinVA]

111. I do have dual citizenship, and I stayed

I may, however, retire to an EU country so I can have decent medical benefits.

[Cleita]

112. I have dual citizenship but the other country is recovering from years

of Pinnochet's dictatorship and Friedman economics brought to it by the courtesy of our country through Henry Kissinger. So either way I'm screwed.

[Mudoria]

113. Stay, without a doubt at all

[proteus_lives]

114. Stay.

I love to travel and visit other countries but I'm an American and I want to help the country and change things. This is my home and nothing will ever change that.

When I kick, I want them to plant my bones in the same plot where they have been putting our family since 1855.