Larisa Alexandrovna: Photos Obama Won't Release Include Images of Rape...

[Hissyspit]

http://www.atlargely.com/atlargely/2009/05/photos-obama-wont-release-include-images-of-rape.html#more

May 28, 2009

Photos Obama won't release include images of rape...

Not that this is a surprise, we knew much from Maj. General Taguba's report on Abu Ghraib. But the new development is (I am not sure just how new this is) that someone actually took photos of the rape and these are said to be the photos that Obama won't release:

"At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube."

I believe some of these photos have already been published. Salon published many of the sexual abuse in 2006. So if there are photos worse than the ones we have seen already, then God help us. Before I post a few of them, I want to cite some more of the above article:

"Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.

Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq.

Allegations of rape and abuse were included in his 2004 report but the fact there were photographs was never revealed. He has now confirmed their existence in an interview with the Daily Telegraph.

The graphic nature of some of the images may explain the US President’s attempts to block the release of an estimated 2,000 photographs from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan despite an earlier promise to allow them to be published.

Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President’s decision, adding: “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.

“I am not sure what purpose their release would serve other than a legal one and the consequence would be to imperil our troops, the only protectors of our foreign policy, when we most need them, and British troops who are trying to build security in Afghanistan."

I am only going to post three of the ones I believe are being discussed. When Dick Cheney defends his policy of torture, remember, he is defending this. When you tell people they can cross the line into cruelty, you have given them permission to engage in what you are about to see. That is what happens when legal controls are taken off and that is why Dick Cheney and George W. Bush are directly responsible for these rapes.

The images are incredibly graphic. I am only posting three because I cannot stand to look through more of them to find the others. I had actually seen these several years back when I was contacted to do a story. I flew to the meeting. I sat through the meeting. I looked at the photos. I excused myself and went out the front door and vomited all over myself. I knew I did not have the strength to write this story. So I hope no one thinks, not even for a moment, that I am in any way taking the posting of these photos lightly. They are horrific. But they are the truth and they must be seen.

Again, be certain you are ready for this. It is incredibly graphic.

(photos after the fold)

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Yep they'd enrage some in the arab world, in fact more than a few

but the reason why this is not being released is that it would increase the hew and cry for prosecution.

By the way.. SOP for torture.

I am sure some of them also include adults raping kids will mom, perhaps even dad, watch on... with somebody making sure they watch on.

And these are not things bad apples came up all on their lonesome, unless those bad apples are named Chenney, Feith and Rumsfeld. Then I can buy the bad apple argument... did I include Bush? Omission, commission, does not matter. These are war crimes.

But the new boss will do all he can to sweep them under the rug... after all this is about EMPIRE and not law...

[Hissyspit]

56. Larisa - "Something I Missed:"

http://www.atlargely.com/atlargely/2009/05/something-i-missed.html

It was fairly late when I posted this, so somehow I managed to entirely miss this - and the worst - part of the article from the Telegraph:

Maj Gen Taguba’s internal inquiry into the abuse at Abu Ghraib, included sworn statements by 13 detainees, which, he said in the report, he found "credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses."

Among the graphic statements, which were later released under US freedom of information laws, is that of Kasim Mehaddi Hilas in which he says: "I saw ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn’t covered and I saw who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kid’s ***.... and the female soldier was taking pictures."

And this entirely jives with what Sy Hersh said years ago.


Kevin Holsinger from her comments section:

"A diarist over at Dailykos made a good point. Mr. Obama said that the withheld photos were just "more of the same". If we've got photos of kids being raped...which is NOT 'more of the same' ... was Mr. Obama lying or did he just not look at the withheld photos?"

[EFerrari]

2. Occupations always result in this kind of horrible depravity.

We've got to get out of there.

[Mojorabbit]

3. Why would they

fuzz out a mans private parts yet publish the woman's face for the world to see. It is bad enough what was done to her without having her face published.

[lala_rawraw]

4. you can barely make out her face...

just her eyes and that is all. and who cares. all i see is horror, just fucking horror. my God this was done in our name. I have seen these many times now, but I still cannot stop shaking when I look at them.

[Hissyspit]

5. It's horrific.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. These were released some time ago, you are right on that

the ones they don't want to release make these ones look mild, I am betting.

The story though will need to be written... someday. I am sure Jay Liffton... or one of his students, will do it...

The psychology of those who do this today is very similar to what led to the horrors of Nazi Germany, the Stasi and the KGB, for starters.

By the way, they won't because they don't want more hew and cry demanding a trial for war crimes. I mean, it is unseemly that an Empire does that. Take care, because they will turn on those who are still speaking soon... regardless of who is in charge, you know the pattern and I know the pattern.

HUGS

[lala_rawraw]

8. that is what i was thinking too...

if the ones they won't release are worse than these, then our troops will not be in harms way abroad. they will be called back because our nation will explode into chaos.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I fear that joe and jane six pack will do nothing actually

again part of the pattern. They will not believe it, even if it wiggles in front of them. To break the spell we need the photos released and for people to be FORCED to watch this.

Me, heard enough stories from Central America that I can take it... and yes I guarantee they are worst than these... and these are horrific enough.

[Hissyspit]

13. There are worse. Anyone think they just stopped with that woman in that one photo?

You know they didn't.

Imagine what was done and wasn't documented.

I remember 2002. Thinking of what atrocities we were heading for. All you had to know was history. But there was NO discussion in the mainstream.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. They may, or they may not

but reality is I heard plenty from CA survivors to know that one is mild...

I also took care of people who were tortured by the cartels... which is its own horror.

So yes, these are mild... the damage is psychological in most of these cases, but deep. There is much worst than can be done. Most humans lack the imagination... which is a good thing... or we would not be able to function on a day to day basis.

And yes, as bad as rape is... there is still worst than you can do to a fellow human being.

[lala_rawraw]

25. actually

there is worse of that particular woman. that was just the least graphic one i could stomach to post. CBS has that full set. but i think that you need not see them. these are enough of the crime against her.

[nichomachus]

44. I beg to differ

Joe Sixpack will probably be wanking over the photos.

[hootinholler]

42. There must be an accounting of this.

:hug:

I feel it too Larissa.

-Hoot

[Misskittycat]

46. I think they should have fuzzed out her face; she was recognizable.

[rhett o rick]

76. I have mixed feelings about releasing the photos. I don't have mixed feeling about prosecution.

If I thought that release of the photos would help in the pursuit of justice, then I would agree with their release asap. However, I do not IMHO think this will happen. We either are going to investigate and prosecute or not with or without the photos being public. This might be a mute point however, because I believe that sooner or later the photos will be leaked. And possibly Pres Obama is counting on that. I feel that the release or no release is a distraction from the real issue of investigating and prosecuting.

Thank you lala for the article.

[philosophie_en_rose]

83. It doesn't matter.

I don't need to see the pictures to know that it's horrific, any more than I would need to see child porn to know it's disgusting. We don't have a right to know what the victim's faces look like and they deserve better than to have freepers masturbate over them.

They should keep the photos private, as evidence in a criminal investigation against the military personnel/contractors. If they don't, it serves no purpose not to hide the identities of the victims. The threat of sharing photographs of a victim's rape is part of the torture.

[jbnow]

34. That's why I thionk the photos should be used for real

investigation and prosecution-NOT released to be looked at. So it is a war crime...but the victims are real people and to release photos is to victimize them again.

If it was us or our loved ones I doubt we'd want the world looking at the photos. It adds to the disrespect. What is happening in the photos should be told but mostly people should go to jail.

No one has ever agreed with me on this but I feel it so strongly. We shouldn't be able to publish them unless the victims and/or family say they can be published. If they don't sign a release no one should show them.

[bleever]

7. If this happened is some county jail,

it would be a national story, an outrage commanding incredible attention.

But this seems somehow to be almost too large for Americans to comprehend. The fuses just trip, because it's beyond understanding.

But it has to be understood.

[lala_rawraw]

9. before it can be understood...

it must be first exposed and those behind it held to account. then understanding will come because it is easier to understand something when those responsible for it are being held accountable and the victims are getting justice. otherwise, it hurts too much to even try to understand - because you know the very people responsible are not being held to account.

[bleever]

11. Are we maybe

in a similar position to citizens of Germany after WWII in this regard?

I just had that thought in a deeper sense that I've had it before.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. yes and to the same level of denial too

Been saying this for years, and why all this crap HAS to be released... and prosecution has to come

Not counting on either by the way

[lala_rawraw]

16. never have been...

we are too arrogant of a nation to ever admit to acts of horror. we are a nation of symbols, not substance.

[bleever]

17. You're both

cynical and angry, and it's because you know we're better than this.

That's why you both work so hard, and prove my point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. So was germany

:-)

It was a nation of symbols that was above doing any horrors

The difference is that the US has done things in the past and UNTIL it faces the music, it will continue to... see Indian Wars, Mexican-American War and also gun boat diplomacy, as well as Iran-Contra.

The Empire will have to, someday...

[lala_rawraw]

15. yes, i think so

but every time i say this, people jump on me as though I was comparing Hitler and Bush when I have never done any such thing. to torture and to rape is as old as the human race. what makes this similar to germany is the propaganda to first convince us these things are for our own good and then to cover-up that these things were done. what is unlike germany is that no one will be held accountable. because of this, we can continue to pretend we are a free nation, but what we really are is a failed democracy experiment.

[bleever]

19. Which is the genius

of Cheney and Rumsfeld, in my opinion. The real crime is to get people to PAY for the poisons you sell them, and to say thank you, and honor you as statesmen and patriots.

That is some perversity, right there.


If they cash out and get off, we haven't only been screwed: we are screwed in anything we do going forward.

[EFerrari]

33. They can't hide this. We're not the only ones that have lost our privacy.

It gets harder every day to keep secrets. And in this case, it's to our advantage.

[Psychic Consortium]

36. Yes you are correct. Will we do the right thing? Or sweep it under the rug? nt

[Lilith Velkor]

72. Not even close - Germany lost the war. We haven't even lost our empire yet.

Germany had to have the ever loving fuck bombed out of it, followed by occupation by the Allies, before its citizenry faced the scope of its crimes.

[stray cat]

38. It would be prosecuted but photos would not be released to the media

[defendandprotect]

70. Indeed, prisoners seem to be saying they are suffering torture in our

prisons -- and obviously the prisons are full of rapes and sexual abuse.

This is typical with the rise of the right --

they rise thru violence, assassinations, elections steals and stay in powre

the same way!

[leftstreet]

18. I have a (probably) stupid question

:hi:

The Obama Administration says they won't release these new photos, but if you're correct that some of them may have already been released - can the govt really stop the M$M from airing them should they choose to?

Not sure that makes sense, but there's something really strange about the Admin declining to release photos that have already been released.

:shrug:

[lala_rawraw]

22. that is the point being made by many

some of these pictures have come out and some will likely leak out. it is better to face this as a nation than to have this exposed and be shamed into the truth.

there are more photos. there are pictures allegedly depicting children being abused. so those i think cannot be released for obvious, legal reasons = child porn. strange, i actually asked a lawyer friend of mine if not being able to hold anyone accountable for war crimes, can we then hold them to account for distributing, making child porn? he said yes, but you would need to prove that first and to prove that, you would be engaging in a crime by distributing the pictures. it is really crazy.

[leftstreet]

24. Jeez, that IS crazy

Well, the whole thing is. Crazy and sick.

Thanks for the response

[yodermon]

49. That's a weird catch-22.. doesn't that legal "bind" apply to run-of-the-mill child porn

I.e., if someone post child porn on the web, and innocent web-browing-person A happens upon it, person A cannot report it because they now "posses" the images (i.e in their browser cache), and they'd be liable.?
There has to be a protection for this scenario right?

[snowdays]

21. I had not looked at them before (if they were posted). Horrible (and graphic)

[lala_rawraw]

23. i am sorry:(

i know they are horrible. i don't mean to cause anyone pain, but we have to see the truth. :(

[suffragette]

29. It's gut-wrenching to see

Which is still nothing compared to what the trauma of having it done to you was like for the people in the pictures.
And for their families and loved ones.
Too many people are unaware that this occurred.
You're right. We must know the truth.

[Psychic Consortium]

40. You are correct. Keep posting the truth.

It is the only way to heal and make things right.

[OneGrassRoot]

41. I notice you said there are some which are worse....

and these were all you had the stomach to post.

I applaud you, Lala. In many ways, for many things, but specifically for your courage regarding this issue today.

Thank you.

[get the red out]

48. The sad victims in the pictures posted are adults

I have read that there are pictures of children being raped. I think that might be at least part of what is meant by "worse".

For God's sake, most "normal" people have an instinct to protect children! How can people reach a point to where they can rape a child and think it is "for the good of the country"? Not that I condone torturing adults. But children, that's an added level of insane.

Each revelation is another level of hell our country is responsible for. And most people I know just ambling along, clueless, in their own little world. I feel like I am trying to communicate with people from another dimension sometimes.

[lala_rawraw]

53. honestly...

these were not published by me, but by Salon and CBS News. I simply reposted them. but it was nice of you to say anyway. :)

[spiritual_gunfighter]

77. I had not seen those particular photos before

and I got physically sick, but I think we all need to see them no matter how hard it is. I still hope we as Americans do the right thing here. I had the same question as above, if Obama is saying these photos are more of the same, did he even look at them or is he lying?

[kenny blankenship]

26. sssh...

Sweep that under the rug. Why bring that up? Nobody wants to hear about that or ethnic cleansing or a million people dead out of 25 million...

Sssh now. Go to sleeep and goodnight

[Norrin Radd]

27. kicking to help expose the truth.

[grasswire]

28. the argument about GI endangerment is bogus

The way to protect American soldiers from retaliation is to bring them home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. It is and it isn't, but reality is NOT prosecuting puts GIs and the rest of us

at risk... for sure.

Releasing this, will in the short term, put people at increased risk. BUT prosecuting those who gave the orders will not only diminish their risks, but also yours and mine.

I know I go out of my way NOT to appear Murican these days when I travel... thank bush, and increasingly Obama. Until there are prosecutions, PERIOD

[lala_rawraw]

31. i agree...

in the short term it will put us in danger. but the truth of it is that the world knows a good deal of it already. we know less. the short term risk, however, is one we cannot avoid. the people who authored these crimes should have considered the risks before they committed the crimes. now we have to deal with it. i think if we show the world that we do not tolerate this. that America is not a sick and twisted nation, than the risks will be less than if we doing nothing but pretend none of this happened.

[defendandprotect]

73. Agree . . . the major, winning argument against TORTURE is the safety of our troops . .

And these Bush wars should have been ended in '06 --

I'm totally disgusted with Pelosi/Reid/Hoyer and at this point Obama who

has now made these wars -- the dictatorial type policies -- and this torture --

his own -- including the coverups!

[inna]

32. rec # 14; Larisa rocks. nt

[PuraVidaDreamin]

35. You have to wonder... If the losers who participated in this barbaric atrocities

have come home and are working in law enforcement in this country- would employ the same techniques
on the citizenry.

Or that these sick minds are just out there as ticking time bombs.

Were they twisted before using said techniques- forced into using them?

It just all needs to come out into the open now.

[PainPerdu]

50. BINGO!

I was thinking the SAME thing myself!

Especially after the Supremes reversed a ruling a couple of days ago that protected persons from overzealous cops during the interrogation process.

The story was here on DU,but I never saw it anyplace else.I'll try to cut and pste the link.
They are not building FEMA camps for nothing folks.

And if you think it's just the prisoners who are being tortured whose brains are being "changed", wait till the Iraq vets return .

[PainPerdu]

52. Link to NY Times article re:easing rules on interrogation

Badgerman (198 posts) Tue May-26-09 01:29 PM
Original message
Justices Ease Rules on Questioning Suspects
Source: New York Times -AP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday overturned a long-standing ruling that stopped police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer was present, a move that will make it easier for prosecutors to interrogate suspects.

The high court, in a 5-4 ruling, overturned the 1986 Michigan v. Jackson ruling, which said police may not initiate questioning of a defendant who has a lawyer or has asked for one unless the attorney is present. The Michigan ruling applied even to defendants who agreed to talk to the authorities without their lawyers.
...
The Obama administration had asked the court to overturn Michigan v. Jackson, disappointing civil rights and civil liberties groups that expected President Barack Obama to reverse the policies of his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/05/26/us/AP-US-Sup...

[Prophet 451]

37. Dear Lord...

I have no words.

[Psychic Consortium]

39. It was never about national security. It was always about sexual sadism.

From the highest levels. Power and control and sadism.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

51. That certainly does seem to be the bottom line. Tragic! n/t

[nichomachus]

43. Well, this genie is certainly out of the bottle -- and isn't going back n/t

[Wednesdays]

45. K&R

:kick:

[bigtree]

47. just devastating

It does no good for the administration or America to have this come out in a news article. We should have been told.

[disndat]

54. I think Obama's reluctance

to release the photos has as much to do with the fear of public outcry for vengeance and Cheney's and Rummy's guillotined heads as the need to protect our troops. I also think that there was a racist component to the torture which appealed to the rightwingers and neocons.

[BrklynLiberal]

55. So ...not only did they partake in these atrocities...they felt it was appropriate to photograph

them as well.
Excuse me... I have to vomit..........

[Psychic Consortium]

58. Good catch. The strong need to take pictures of the abuse is very telling. nt

[Echo In Light]

62. PNAC blueprint: create and promote conflict to match their warlike mindset

The photos were taken to be sent out into their local communities and obviously outrage people into organizing resistance - that way the hawks can use the mainstream US media to sell the idea of "terrorist cells" that our troops are bravely defending us from.

[pacalo]

57. CBS has removed the pictures from its site.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/28/world/main5045314.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_5045314

[pacalo]

59. I've gotten the first few pictures to download, then I get bumped off the internet.

Maybe I'm just having computer problems?

[earcandle]

60. YOu gotta be a sicko to get hard enough to rape anyone under these circumstances.

what are they teaching our boys in the military anyway? 

[earcandle]

61. of course, a rapist is not normal under any circumstances and needs to be jailed for life, yes?

[Echo In Light]

63. I'm also appalled how female soldiers seem to be eager participants

...be it in "documenting" these rapes/child rapes, but also reports of them taunting and teasing these poor people/children. I'd think that goes against some fundamental aspect of the feminine ... or perhaps just goes against my own stereotypes and adherence to that form of propaganda.

[lala_rawraw]

64. Lindie England

is technically "slow" as i remember it, right? if i recall, she has the IQ of a child. not that she is excused by any means. but someone who does not understand is being told by people they trust to do certain things should not be seen as guilty as someone who can process and fully understand.

[earcandle]

65. repressed sexuality seeks out depraved environs to get experience be it a minister, a politician or

a woman, I think.

And I bet a lot of hormonal folks, young and normally
powerless, went to Iraq to get their repressed (hidden from
social view) depraved needs met.  But what do we do with them
once they are back?  Seems they are self-annihilating. Lots of
suicides lately. 

[Echo In Light]

66. There's a host of ugly psyche variables involved, to be sure. But I don't buy that...

....they're somehow so ignorant/stupid as to not have a basic grasp of kindness, or of comprehending exactly what it is they're participating in, and the subsequent horrific reactions of the people they're making fun of as they're being raped/tortured.

[lala_rawraw]

68. no, of course not

and i am not defending her actions, i am saying that competency should be taken into consideration as in all criminal cases

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. Sy Hersh reported on this in 2004. Five fucking years ago.

[lala_rawraw]

69. yes

on the child rape in particular. it is so sad

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

71. Larisa, this absolutely infuriates me and yes, saddens me too. Who the hell are

we as a nation if #1, we have savages that will do this in the name of our government, and #2, have "righteous" people who will sweep it under the frigging rug?

[lala_rawraw]

78. i don't know

i really don't:(

[defendandprotect]

74. Thank you, Larisa -- When I see these photos I see their abusers . ..

those having binded their hands and feet -- those who are keeping them

naked -- soiled with their own feces --

those who are forcing rapes -- those forcing penetration with instruments.


And above all I see Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld --

This is insanity which has put our country in the same ranks with other

torturers and murders and rapists. And we most of all have to find a way

to do something about this torture -- these murderous wars where we have

been bombing Iraq for more than 20 years!!!


PS: I just happened to see a commercial for a movie which features torture.
And reflecting back they have been introducing insanity since the early 1970's -
beginning with the Drug Wars. I understand there is a TV program - 24 hours/?
which also deals with torture? This is, IMO, intended to give Americans the
idea that this is a violent and insane nation -- and to make them immune to
the idea of torture. None of this has happened by accident. This is long range
planning.

And what scares the hell out of me is Obama not standing up to strongly REJECT
all of this.

[The Wizard]

75. The cretins who ordered this

must be shot or ass raped by a rabid gorilla.

[azul]

79. Wondering if there is a military torturer's underground,

with child porn horror shows circulating?

And would those UT's be useful to powerful organizations who could blackmail them to do dirty work, and be thus protected from normal law enforcement?

That I have so little trust left in the machinations of a dying empire to imagine such a crime scenario is horrible in itself.

And who would dare or care to know, anyhow?

[condoleeza]

80. I'm not ready, I've seen enough and known enough in my 60 tears on this earth.

Military training breaks a human down to the point where they can look at another human being and believe that they are worthless and deserve to die, that if you don't kill them they will kill you, that you are saving the world when you do it.

My fiance died in '68 in a helicopter crash in Vietnam when he was on a mission to pick up hookers for a party at the Embassy in Saigon. Of course, these "hookers" were created by war, were only trying to survive and feed their families, using the only asset they had, they all died. Guess the Generals had to jerk off that night, doubt they missed a beat. My good friend, whose life has never been the same, was part of a murder of a Vietnamese woman who was pregnant by an American Soldier. They blew her up by shoving a grenade up her vagina. Not something you forget when you come home to a wife and kids.

Just pretty sick of what humans have the capacity to do to each other, at war and at home. Hard to want to continue to live in this world.

[Jefferson23]

81. Sickening, will the trials for Bush and Cheney EVER happen?

[midnight]

82. Not brave enough for this, but strong enough to say bring our

troops home. I don't want my tax dollars being spent this way.

[donheld]

84. May the depths of hell be the dwelling place of those who

allowed this to go on. I may be the only one who's glad President did not release these photos. Al Quida would multiply many fold and still may just by seeing what was done.

[moggie]

85. AQ already know what took place

In fact, as long as the cover-up attempt continues, terrorists are free to invent rumours of even worse abuse, for recruitment purposes. The only way to reduce this is to do the right thing: be open about what happened, investigate, prosecute, apologise, and put measures in place to ensure it never happens again. And bring the troops home.