Obama the comedian -- cracks up elite audience with joke about GLBT protestors

[nichomachus]

Haw haw haw haw -- quite the cutup, that Obama . . .



http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/obama-rings-up-cash-among-the-stars/

“One of them said, “Obama keep your promise,’ ” the president said. “I thought that’s fair. I don’t know which promise he was talking about.”

The people in the audience – who paid $30,400 per couple to attend – laughed as they ate a dinner of roasted tenderloin, grilled organic chicken and sun choke rosemary mashed potatoes.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. *

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/z/jeff_zeleny/index.html

[Captain Hilts]

2. I'm not laughing.

[Bucky]

3. Not that I'm happy with his foot dragging, but I don't see how he's joking ABOUT the protestors

[nichomachus]

4. He's belittling their concerns

He knows fucking well what the promises are.

It’s wrong to have millions of Americans living as SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS in this nation. We can bring about real change for all LGBT Americans. I WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON MY COMMITMENT TO EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL LGBT AMERICANS. I WILL USE THE BULLY PULPIT to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does. I WILL PROVIDE THAT LEADERSHIP. Together, we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike.

What did we get from him on this issue? Shit. Nothing. No leadership. No bully pulpit. Not even a kind words. Fucking nothing. And his spokesliar made a mealy-mouthed statement that was worthy of Tony Snow of Dana Perino.

[Howardx]

10. according to the local news footage

it was the armenians wanting him to recognize the genocide who yelled "keep your promise" saw it this morning. there were armenians, anti war protestors AND gay protestors. dont let me get in the way with the truth though.

[ColbertWatcher]

Nevertheless, he didn't need to remark the way he did.

"I don't know what they wanted! LOL!"

He should apologize to those people the same way he apologized to Nancy Reagan for the dismissive thing he said about her.

I don't care for Ol' Nancy or her politics, but his remark about her was uncalled-for, he knew it and apologized.

[Howardx]

16. have you considered at all...

that it could have been a joke about how many different groups were protesting him last night?

[nichomachus]

22. You don't joke about people with legitimate concerns

You just don't. It belittles their concerns. You need to take people seriously -- not waltz into a $30,000 a plate dinner and make fun of the poor people outside.

Christ on a pogo stick

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ColbertWatcher]

192. You're wrong and nichomachus is correct.

Look at the big picture here. Obama's remark was dismissive regardless which group was protesting.

I'm certain he didn't say anything like that to the lobbyists from United Health Services.

[Howardx]

228. no

you look at the big picture, if thats what nichomachus meant he had plenty of time to edit his diary title. he choose not to.

[NoPasaran]

231. Let's see what he says when the lobbyists from United Health Services

Let's see what he says when the lobbyists from United Health Services protest outside one of his events!

[alfredo]

236. Watch this video and ask why the OP quoted out of context.

http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=1155201977&bctid=24514900001

[RufusH]

305. Thanks for the link, shows just how belitting his joke was.

I was willing to believe that it MIGHT be different in context, but seeing that video shows that it is just as insulting as I thought.

[LeftyMom]

256. "gay slander"?

Do go on...

[LanternWaste]

239. Does that apply only to the President...?

"You don't joke about people with legitimate concerns..."

Does that apply only to the President or to everyone civil person...?

[ColbertWatcher]

250. All people of course, but not all of us have a bully pulpit like the President does.

Obama has to know he's President now and that his every word is scrutinized and amplified.

Hell, when he made that remark about Nancy Reagan, he apologized right away.

[roguevalley]

82. joking about someone else's pain is a republican thing to do. we

are supposed to be above it. nobless oblige and all that I guess. who cares what the little people want.

[ColbertWatcher]

159. Actually no. But, he does have a problem understanding that he is the President and ...

... that whenever he speaks it is AMPLIFIED because of the office.

He's messed up before and apologized, he'll mess up again and apologize.

This is just another one of those times when he's messed up.

I expect that he will apologize.

[kenfrequed]

260. Well that's awesome

Considering none of them were the usual bible banging conservative jerks that would never vote for him anyhow, its great that he made fun of people having different issues. Lovely. But wait, if you are on the other side of the political fence and your candidates lost don't worry the administration will make every available effort to placate you.

[ColbertWatcher]

275. It appears Sotomayor "clarified" her comments in response to GOP mouth pieces.

I guess that puts citizen-protesters beneath lobbyists and GOP-controlled media shills.

[kenfrequed]

276. Yes

This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts.

[nichomachus]

14. He shouldn't have belittled that person either (if that's the truth)

[alfredo]

59. Saying that is fair doesn't seem belittling. The question might have been

fair but lacking context. It's like being offended at a pot luck dinner because the person couldn't tell you if he liked your dish because he didn't know what dish he was supposed to be commenting on.

[ColbertWatcher]

165. He has assistants and an army of people to keep him informed, and ...

... he has stated that he wants to stay out of the so-called "Washington bubble".

His remark makes him sound out of touch or tone deaf.

He needs to apologize.

[alfredo]

218. He didn't know what promise the protesters were referring to and he said it

I don't see why he should apologize for admitting he didn't know.

What if your SO was pissed at you and won't tell you why, how do you respond? He admitted it was a fair comment (telling him to keep his promises) but he didn't know which promise they were alluding to, and admitted so much. I see no blame on his part.

did you see the video of his comment?

[ColbertWatcher]

233. If he didn't know what they were protesting he didn't have to say anything.

Now, he has to apologize.

[alfredo]

235. The end of his statement seemed to point to the protests being a good thing.

Look at the video of his comments. It is not what was posted in the OP. The OP cutting off the last part of the sentence changed the meaning of the sentence.

http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=1155201977&bctid=24514900001

[ColbertWatcher]

253. I changed the text and added a link to Daily Kos' transcript of the video. n/t

[alfredo]

254. Thanks

[ColbertWatcher]

257. You're welcome. n/t

[alfredo]

262. anytime

[alfredo]

220. Here's the video. You can see the OP cut off the last part of his quote, and

I find that dishonest.

Here, watch the video.
http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=1155201977&bctid=24514900001

"I thought that's fair. I don't know which promise he was talking about, but I thought to myself 'I like that'" He was saying even though he didn't know what the context of the protest was, he liked that they were there.

[alfredo]

13. We're they gay rights protestors or some other group?

[nichomachus]

15. Doesn't make any difference

you don't belittle anyone with legitimate grievances.

[alfredo]

24. How is a statement of fact demeaning? If he didn't know what promise

they were talking about how can he respond otherwise?

[nichomachus]

26. You can make up defenses all day

but it was a callous and indifferent joke made at the expense of people with legitimate concerns -- no matter how many groups there were.

[EFerrari]

30. I think he meant to poke fun at himself -- "When I was campaigning,

I made so many promises that now I can't even remember them all" but, the joke also makes fun of the people who believed those promises and that's how it goes back directly to the protesters.

That probably wasn't his intention. He makes fun of himself all the time. But, that's what happened here.

[uppityperson]

42. I agree with that interpretation. thanks

[JuniperLea]

97. That is how I saw it too...

But there's no blood in that, right?

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

108. Well, this has been a very upsetting week.

[JuniperLea]

109. Indeed...

I think people need to calm the hell down. All this hating is playing right into the hands of the GOP.

[alfredo]

51. Every advocacy group thinks

the world revolves around their issue.

Don't you think the questioner should have informed Obama what promise they are referring to? Did the questioner assume Obama knew him and his concerns? Obama may not have been able to see the protesters.

“I thought that’s fair. I don’t know which promise he was talking about.” If he didn't know, he was right in saying he didn't know. It seems like an honest statement.

How should he have responded to a shouted question from an unknown person with an unknown issue?

[Howardx]

54. somewhere on the internet right now

a message board for armenian americans is railing against obama's joke last night.

[alfredo]

70. I'm sure. Us Armenians are (fill in the blank)

[Howardx]

94. heres some video of the armenian protesters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOTxWiFdMU

[alfredo]

134. Glad to see my peeps raising hell.

[Howardx]

148. yep they are very active in los angeles

i agree with their position completely.

[alfredo]

154. Same here. My family got out of Armenia a long time before the genocide.

They took up residence in Prussia around the 1600's.

[bdamomma]

335. as an american armenian, the armenian people have been

fighting for a President to acknowledge the crimes of the Turkish Ottomans during 1915, it is something that I have grown up with and demonstrated in NY at the UN for someone to recognize the Genocide, not only for Armenians but for all ethic groups. It has been a battle, but then again, it is all politics America being civil to Turkey, such BS.

[ColbertWatcher]

167. Exactly. That kind of behavior is beneath the office. n/t

[Bluebear]

237. well said

[Regret My New Name]

323. How do you know they were legitimate?

Maybe they were teabaggers... or maybe they were protesting the cover up of aliens.. Also, I'm pretty sure the people who protest such things believe they have legitimate grievances. So who decides what are legitimate grievances and which ones are not? You and I? What about the 40-50% of the population who think that we are wrong?

[alfredo]

5. Marriage is the responsibility of the state, not the federal government.

His joke points to the many issues he is confronting, and the promises he made that he has not had the chance to act on.

[nichomachus]

12. Red herring

He promised to provide leadership and he pandered to the gay community. He owes them at least some dignity -- not to make jokes about them.

[alfredo]

21. Did he know it was gay protesters? One post said it was Armenians.

Of course there are no Armenians in California.

[JayMusgrove]

170. Not to sound crass, but we folks often refer to women who are gay as

Lesbanese!

What's with Armenia and gay liberation? I have no clue.

[alfredo]

243. The US hasn't had the backbone to stand up to Turkey by recognizing

the Armenian Genocide.


Someone posted an incomplete quote by Obama and everyone took that comment as directed at Anti Prop 8 or the Gay and Lesbian community. Another posted a video that showed Obama was reacting to hearing someone urging him to keep his promise. Obama mentioned hearing the protester, and remarked that he didn't know what promise the person was speaking about. He didn't know because he couldn't see the banners, he could only hear the words. The part of the quote left off was where Obama went on and praised the activism.

I'm of Armenian heritage and I wasn't offended. I'm glad he recognized the protests and seemed to encourage them.


There's a lot of unhappy people out there because of the Cal Supreme court decision, and they should be. Such decisions upset me too because my sister in law is Lesbian. Any actions against gays and lesbians is an assault against my family.

[Hugabear]

81. Same thing used to be said about slavery

Sometimes the federal government NEEDS to step in, especially when it concerns civil rights.

[Captain Hilts]

102. FYI: 'States' Rights' was the excuse to keep slavery. nt

[EFerrari]

8. He's not. It's a joke about how many promises he made.

That's not much better, is it?

[alarimer]

160. And about the many promises he has failed to keep?

THAT part of it is not very funny at all.

[ColbertWatcher]

172. The part that is the least funny is ...

... how it can be twisted to make him sound out of touch. To make him sound as though he has become part of the so-called "Washington insiders club" despite all his talk about wanting to stay out of the bubble.

With all his communication devices and "Czars," does Obama still not know who was protesting?

Does Obama's remark mean he can only hear the concerns of groups with lobbyists?

He needs to apologize for this as soon as he can.

[EFerrari]

202. It was a mistake. Agreed. n/t

[tekisui]

6. Not funny.

[ColbertWatcher]

7. "I don’t know which promise he was talking about." That was undignified. n/t

[closeupready]

44. Yes, makes him seem irresponsible. Er, maybe like he thinks he's doing vaudeville or something.

n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

188. He makes a remark that he doesn't know who was protesting.

Promises aside, it seems that when it comes to high-profile interest groups, he's more than able to leave a seat open for their interests.

Did he forget who was at the table when discussing healthcare "reform"? What about all those whose voices were heard when bailing out the banks? He didn't forget the concerns of the attendees of those closed-door meetings?

Does he really expect democracy to be conducted in air conditioned rooms by people earning millions in salaries and stock options wearing expensive clothes?

His remark was beyond irresponsible, it was elitist.

[emilyg]

9. Where's the humor?

[Jakes Progress]

11. Sort of a "Now watch this" moment.

Only without the golf clubs.

[WeDidIt]

17. how could he know which proimise the guy was talking about

when about four or five different groups were protesting?

[Howardx]

18. exactly

thank you.

[nichomachus]

25. Stupid point

You still don't joke about people with legitimate concerns while sipping champagne with the elite

[JuniperLea]

99. Would it have been ok...

With grape soda and welfare recipients?

[tekisui]

29. Why even mention it, then? He used the protester as a punchline.

It doesn't matter which promise, or which cause was being protested. He should have left it alone, if that was all he had to say about it.

[WeDidIt]

52. It's self deprecating humor

HE made so many promises and so many interest groups are protesting him now, he can't keep track of which promise he failed to keep.

[closeupready]

56. And that's certainly another valid interpretation.

But I go with the original interpretation.

[KittyWampus]

230. did you even take the time to find out the WHOLE quote? Just curious.

[tekisui]

234. Yes, I did.

[ColbertWatcher]

280. Exactly. n/t

[Number23]

113. THANK YOU. You can watch the video here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x317572

There were numerous groups protesting, including those concerned about his response to the Armenian genocide.

We don't know who Obama was referring to and the point is moot anyway because in no way does it look like he's making a joke about anything ANYWAY. This is some FAKE, ridiculous mess.

[alfredo]

19. If he didn't know who they were and what promises they were referring to

I see nothing improper in his response. It reminds me of an answering machine message by an person wanting a callback, but then not leaving their name and number.

[nichomachus]

27. It was disrespect -- pure and simple

[alfredo]

37. How can a straight forward statement like

“I thought that’s fair. I don’t know which promise he was talking about” be seen disrespectful? He did say it was fair, but he didn't know what promise they were referring to. If he didn't know, he didn't know. If you have several groups shouting at you from the back of the room, how can you tell who is who? When on a platform or stage and you have lights in your eyes, it is difficult to see beyond the first couple rows.

[Howardx]

38. if youre looking to be insulted

you'll find an insult. thats the case with this poster imo.

[alfredo]

55. Obama was being honest about not knowing what promise the person

was referring to. If the news report was correct it was about the Armenian Genocide. (BTW I'm Armenian)


Obama is not a mind reader.

[mitchtv]

32. HE KNEW

cut the shit there were a number of groups, all with broken promises. It was not funny

[Lex]

45. He's MUCH smarter than you give him credit for.

How could he not know? It was clear.

[uppityperson]

20. Doesn't make clear what protesters he was talking about. Don't see him joking about them

I see that he is saying he should keep his promises, but not sure which one whomever it was meant.

Where does it say he was talking to, or about, GLBT? Post down thread says there were others protesting, and he was responding to an Armenian.

I am saving my anger at Obama for things that are real, not this incident, unless there is corroboration that he was mocking GLBT.

[Howardx]

31. the footage i saw this morning

was a guy holding an armenian flag yelling "keep your promise"

[uppityperson]

41. Thank you. I won't be outraged about an Armenian or unclear situation

thank

[O is 44]

23. In all fairness to the President

I saw the local coverage last night and this morning and it was a collage of people with different causes. He may have not known what it was all about. All of the separate groups who were interviewed all stated they supported the President but they were there to be seen and have their messages heard.

[nichomachus]

28. In all fairness to the president -- he made a callous and indifferent statement

I don't care if there were five thousands groups protesting -- you don't go into an elite $30,000 a plate dinner and joke about the poor people outside -- unless you're a Bush

[O is 44]

35. It just does not seem like

the President's MO is to belittle people with causes. You actually think that he was demeaning the protestors? Really, this guy has been called in his words "everything but the son of God" and I never saw him demeaning someone personally. From what I have seen out of him, he does not come across as a mean spirited person.

[canetoad]

36. He didn't. EOM

[Dramarama]

66. True

[CreekDog]

34. Obama's a human being

doing an incredibly hard job.

you don't have to cut him slack on his promises, but you might think about doing so on this kind of all-too-human attempt at humor, self-deprecation and whatnot.

[closeupready]

50. That is self-deprecating humor only in an ambiguous way.

It's not the end of the world, but he doesn't seem to get it - he is the President of the United States. This is not a dress rehearsal, and you are not play acting, Obama.

[CreekDog]

62. you think he has grayed so much because he thinks this is all a joke?

:wtf: :thumbsdown:

[closeupready]

63. Oh, please. He hasn't 'grayed' at all. What nonsense. His flippant attitude

is unbecoming in a president. Presidents aren't ever flippant. People who are weak or in a position of submission are flippant. Just makes him seem like such an AMATEUR, these sophomoric one-liners. :mad: Kind of embarrassing, actually.

[frylock]

67. it's hard work

[ColbertWatcher]

194. You're correct. He has made these type of insensitive comments before.

Most notably about Nancy Reagan.

And he has apologized for it.

I expect that he will apologize for this as well.

[CreekDog]

200. It wasn't insensitive unless you don't read his whole quote:

"There were some protesters out here. I could hear them-vaguely. I don't know what they were protesting. I think there was a group of them. But one of them started to chant "Obama, keep your promise" and I thought, that's fair. I don't know which promise that he was talking about. But I thought to myself, you know, I like that."

Sounds like Obama welcomes being held accountable. :applause:

Obama, don't apologize, you did nothing wrong.

[ColbertWatcher]

207. He has stated before that he wants to be held accountable.

However, his remark was dismissive and he needs to apologize for it, just like he apologized for his off-handed remark about Nancy Reagan.

He's President he can handle an apology.

[CreekDog]

210. It's not insensitive to say he didn't know what they were protesting about

If he didn't know.

[ColbertWatcher]

219. He's not some child; he's the President.

He is surrounded by advisers and has stated he doesn't want to be "in the Washington bubble."

His remark makes it sound as if he's enjoying his stay in that bubble.

Democracy isn't neat and tidy, people are going to protest. I hope he isn't trying to say the people are taking on too many issues.

[CreekDog]

226. He said he likes that people hold him to his promises

That he even knew that they were saying "Keep your promise" demonstrates that.

The last president never would have heard because protestors would have been behind a fence 1/2 mile away.

[ColbertWatcher]

297. Which is why this president should cop out like the previous occupant did.

An apology is warranted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5741220&mesg_id=5741220

[jehovas_waitress]

39. Cracks me up.. almost as much as the Special Olympics bon mot

[Lex]

40. Reminescent of Bush looking for the WMD's under the tables.

"Are they here?" "Maybe over here?"

[Sal Minella]

46. No comparison. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

[Lex]

48. Feigned cluelessness about an important issue of the day.

Um, YEAH, there's your comparison.

[frylock]

69. fucking awesome

:thumbsup:

[nichomachus]

74. I'm beginning to wonder if it's "feigned"

Maybe, he's just clueless.

[Duncan Grant]

83. Thank you!

:applause:

[Sal Minella]

204. There were SEVERAL important issues of the day being protested,

if I understand the scene correctly.

Comparing Obama's confused reaction to that spontaneous hodge-podge with Bush's rehearsed "comedy" sketch of pretending to look for weapons he lied about to force us into an unnecessary war -- way way way too long a stretch for this old broad.

Are you also mad at Obama for not curing cancer in his first four months in office?

[Lex]

232. "Are you also mad at Obama for not curing cancer in his first four months in office?"

Are you quite mad? How is this relevant in your mind in any way whatsoever?

Let's hope it's not.

[Individualist]

49. Good analogy.

:thumbsup:

[O is 44]

58. An illegal war was started over the WMD's

I think this is a stretch and I also think a lot of people that are offended is not aware of the scene outside of the event. It was many, many groups and the guy that made that statement about keeping promises represented the people protesting for the Armenians.

[Lex]

61. I didn't say it was exactly the same.

I said it was reminiscent of.

The feigned cluelessness not particularly amusing, imho.

[O is 44]

65. I am not feigning cluelessness...

that's not my MO. I thought I gave a legitimate response. Your outrage is unwarranted based on the coverage I witnessed. I find that to be a reasonable statement to make. There were a whole bunch of groups and someone yelling keep your promises he stated he did not know what promises they were referring to. It was not as if the Limo was going to stop so that he could read all the many signs and ask the guy what he was referring to. NOT.

[Lex]

68. I am not "outraged."

I was not referring to your feigned cluelessness, but rather, his.

[donheld]

244. Blown way the hell out of purportion

[Regret My New Name]

325. I don't see how those are even close...

[closeupready]

43. What are you, like Eddie Murphy or something?

:mad:

[DS1]

47. Surely listing the menu isn't a sign of bias

[Mari333]

53. the petit bourgeouse elitists were laughing edit: bourgeoisie for spelling nazis

at the protesters...where have I seen that before...oh yeah, bush and cheney's white tie dinners. its not that different, is it. no, its not.

[Howardx]

57. that doesnt mean what you think it means

and you spelled it wrong to boot.

[Mari333]

60. I know. Im typing angry

and the little elitists make me angry. the tiny ones with all that money and not a lick of class. so sue me.

[JuniperLea]

104. You should understand what you say... and you should be able to contain your anger long enough

To figure it out.

Bourgeoisie is a classification used in analyzing human societies to describe a social class of people. Historically, the bourgeoisie comes from the middle or merchant classes of the Middle Ages, whose status or power came from employment, education, and wealth, as distinguished from those whose power came from being born into an aristocratic family of land owners. In modern times, it is the class owning the means for producing wealth.<1>

The term petite bourgeoisie (also petty bourgeoisie) is used to describe the class below the bourgeoisie but above the proletariat (usually independent operators with a small number of employees or no employees at all).

[Mari333]

141. the little rich

is how I see the people that politicians pander to. the movie moguls in hollywood and the people he was dining with at his fundraiser are the 'little rich'. sue me for not being a purist.

[YOY]

64. Sorry O. That's not funny.

n/t

[alfredo]

71. Well, I am pissed that you haven't address my issues.

[nichomachus]

72. Only a therapist could address your issues n/t

[alfredo]

77. Physical, mental, sexual?

[JuniperLea]

105. Wow... insulting people makes you look so cool...

:eyes:

[nichomachus]

135. Welll, since he's posted the same crap about 100 times, I was just thinking

Or are you just pissed because you have the franchise on insulting people

[JuniperLea]

149. Again...

You've lost all cred. Buh bye

[alfredo]

152. It's 102 times. His remarks were not directed at the gay community. It

was toward my people, and I'm not offended by his remarks.

[ColbertWatcher]

279. It doesn't matter which group he insulted, nor ...

... does it matter if you were personally offended.

What he said was beneath the office.

He's the president, not some coked-up cowboy.

[Lex]

73. Non sequitur.

nt

[alfredo]

78. My favorite comic strip

[YOY]

76. I'm sorry. Did you say something to me elsewhere?

Because that was the first time I posted in this thread.

And my simple but not completely forlorn disappointment in him is pretty much solid.

[alfredo]

79. You disappointed that he didn't know which promise the person

was talking about?

I find it odd that people are pissed that he admitted that he didn't know what promise the person was shouting about.

[YOY]

80. and you do?

Still a callous statement and a generally unfunny joke regardless of what promise the person was talking about.

Doesn't matter if it was an angry gay about DADT, a person angry about single-payer, or some insane birther.

It's generally not a good statement to make at all and a completely inappropriate joke.

[alfredo]

84. If anything, it seemed exasperated. Do you know for sure what that person

was asking about? Was it gay rights, the Armenian Genocide, healthcare, the bail out, Iraq, or many other promises that weren't at the head of the que? He didn't know and he said it. He even admitted it was fair, but that he didn't know the context. Look at it from his point of view.

[YOY]

88. I did think about it. Not a good thing to say. It sounds at worst very indifferent to Americans.

and at best a poorly thought out statement from someone who knows better. All of this is regardless of his follow-up comments.

and as I said it doesn't matter what the person shouting about his promises was standing for. It was still a poor choice of words.

We need not applogize for everything the man does or lockstep with him because he is a Democrat. If you want locksteppers who will not debate or admit wrongs or gaffs you know where they live...

[alfredo]

90. OK, how should he have replied?

[YOY]

92. By not saying anything at all about the matter or changing the subject.

He's a savvy politician and damn good with words. He knows how to do that. He knows words can be misconstrued about things.

Or by better wording things. He knows that words can be twisted and that this joke can and will be taken the wrong way.

[alfredo]

143. The words he used seemed neutral. As it turned out it appears he was

unknowingly addressing the Armenian protesters, not the gay community.

[YOY]

180. Still doesn't matter. He could have worded it better in a way that could not be misconstrued.

And FWIW Armenians do indeed totally have a gripe that the world does tiptoe about due to worry about pissing off Turkey.

[alfredo]

214. The pundits will criticize if he said hello in the form of a question. The

Armenia issue is very complicated. As long as Turkey is an important ally and as long as the Turks are in denial, I don't see much movement on the issue.

[Sebastian Doyle]

182. Guess I must have missed the California State Court case on the Armenians

when did THEIR rights get taken away?

[YOY]

190. It's about the world admitting that the Armenian Genocide happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Their gripe is very real and a very sensitive subject as Turkey does not like to admit that it happened. The Turks did it so well that there were few survivors who actually experienced it and nobody came to rescue them.

A million dead is nothing to sneeze about. Most of the world still turns a blind eye to it.

[Sebastian Doyle]

199. Yes, I realize the Armenians have a legitimate complaint.

But Obama wasn't in Armenia or Turkey last night, he was in California. And the other poster/pom pom waver was clearly throwing out an Armenian curveball to hijack the thread.

[YOY]

206. Oh he's not being THAT bad...the n00b downstream who wanted me to admit to "hating the guy" is.

That n00b is gonna make a lot of friends here by posting that many DUers secretly hate Obama everytime someone thinks that O can do a better job by doing/not doing X.

[Howardx]

227. thats a lie

heres the video of the armenians chanting "obama keep your promise" last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOTxWiFdMU

the largest population of armenians outside of armenia itself lives in los angeles. there is a district in los angeles called "little armenia"

no curveball jerkoff just the truth.

[O is 44]

85. Lets be honest here.....

Just admit you hate the guy because he has not spoken out against Prop 8, He has not repealed DADT or DOMA. And you do not feel he is an advocate for gay rights. I get that, but attacking him on something like this when he was not belittling the protestors is just ridiculous.

[YOY]

89. "attacking him" and "admit I hate the guy"???

Poor choice of words yourself.

I love the guy. He's not everything I dreamed of but he's fuck all better than anything the Republicans could come up with.

Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? This is Democratic underground...and we're allowed to debate here.

[O is 44]

95. Obviously I hit a nerve I got you to

use the f-word. I stand by my comments, the baseless outrage here is way over the top. He was not belittling the protestors.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[O is 44]

112. No one's advocating lockstep

Behavior, just recognition of the facts presented would be helpful in this discussion. I just think your outrage is misplaced since the OP was incorrect, the President was not making fun of the protestors.

[EFerrari]

110. Welcome back to DU. n/t

[sniffa]

121. Right?

[O is 44]

124. Thank you.....

I am hooked on this thread because I actually saw the local coverage last night and this morning, so I know the people who are angry here are wrong. He was not making fun of the protestors. I guess I am officially a part of the community because I was just accused of being "a troll flame bait" not a direct quote since I left out the curse word. I think when you have a valid argument curse words are not needed. Just my thought.

[EFerrari]

128. Telling people that how they feel is wrong is not an argument. n/t

[O is 44]

136. My point was that he was not

making fun of the protestors. If you do not believe this then you are angry, but from what I witnessed it was not a slap at the protestors.

[EFerrari]

147. Then you should stick to your point and stop, as you just did to me,

attributing disagreement to emotion because that's just a personal attack not an argument.

[O is 44]

164. I am really not getting your point....

but I will leave it at that because you seem to be sincere in your statements. I believe a lot of people here who are upset are mad at his lack of support for gay rights, and any perceived slight even if it was not will be viewed as another slap in the face.

[EFerrari]

171. And that response from the gay community needs to be addressed

not invalidated or insulted or otherwise bashed. That's what I'm trying to say.

[sniffa]

119. Jerk

[alfredo]

146. Thanks.

[uppityperson]

75. Link to video of his speech. He is laughing at himself. Here is more of what he said...

http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=1155201977&bctid=24514900001

"I thought that's fair. I don't know which promise he was talking about, but I like that"

Of course he made promises, and of course he likes being held to what he promised.

Outrage at him for this? No. He's doing what he needs to do.

[Enrique]

86. damn

I fell for the NY Times's snarky dishonest reporting. I actually believed he was mocking the protestors.

Kudos to Politico for posting the video that proves the NYT is a bunch of liars.

[11 Bravo]

91. Get the Hell out of here with showing what actually happened. There's outrage to be expressed!

[Howardx]

96. bingo

truth be damned!

[seabeyond]

100. damn good thing i went reading thru thread and found other people correct op

cause op certainly didnt feel the need to correct himself.

snarl.....

[Number23]

122. "op certainly didnt feel the need to correct himself."

SHOCKING! I'm SHOCKED I tell you!

[seabeyond]

130. lol lol

with such blatant and provable dishonesty, .... i always am. my bad

[SemiCharmedQuark]

107. That's an important clip. Hopefully people will see it.

Since people do not always read all the replies of a thread.

[seabeyond]

111. agreed. pisses me off. people have a greater responsiblity in posting than putting out false

info to rile the people

[JuniperLea]

191. Exactly

There are plenty, more than enough legitimate things to be upset about! This sort of thing only waters down the real issues and makes us all look horribly bad!

[closeupready]

222. Okay - after viewing that, I take my critical comments back.

His comments there seems fine. The media seems intent on dividing and conquering Democrats.

[Regret My New Name]

326. That's how I see it. He's making fun of himself, not the protestors.

[FreeState]

87. My civil rights are not a joke - thats disgusting n/t

[marimour]

132. it actually had nothing to do with your civil rights

There is a video of what actually happened and who the protesters were (Armenian genocide protesters)

[FreeState]

211. I've seen the video and dont agree with you sorry. n/t

[seabeyond]

93. you are accusing obama of dissing gays when a poster points out that is not what happened and

there is no clarification on your mistaken op?

that is just wrong for all of us that didnt watch the clip, to get pissed when it is not even what happens. then when you are corrected you say so???? totally irresponsible and simply not good enough for du

[glitch]

101. So how many promises has he broken, has he lost count?

I suppose knowing which promise he has broken, or intends to break, could be a problem for him.
And us.

[shadowknows69]

103. The ruling class is getting pretty overt in their distaste of the serfs lately

[EFerrari]

116. Yep. This is the same kind of goof as making fun of the people

who submitted the pot question to that forum he had televised when it was the most popular question. He should learn to resist the impulse to make a joke at those times.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

117. Did you watch the clip?

This is not like the pot thing. There were several groups protesting there. He was referring to the one person who shouted to keep the promise. If he had assumed the guy was talking about prop 8, as the OP assumes, he would have been wrong.

He goes on to talk about how he likes the fact that people want him to keep his promises.

[EFerrari]

123. Yes, I did watch it. And the problem is, it doesn't matter who was protesting

or that this joke was poking fun at himself because when he pokes fun at himself, he also is poking fun at people who believed those promises.

Add to that, the events of this week in California.

Add to that, the tens of thousands of dollars people had to pay to simply GET IN to that dinner.

He goofed. It wasn't purposeful meanness but it was insensitive just the same.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

126. So it doesn't matter that if he made the assumption the OP made he would be wrong?

It doesn't matter that he WASN'T doing what the OP suggested he did?

I don't even think he was making fun of himself. I think he was stating a fact. He was not sure which promise the guy was referring to. I think it is rather clear that it was not intended to make fun of GLBT protesters as the OP suggests.

Separate issues:

The Pot response
The Healthcare Response
The pathetic Gibbs response to the prop 8 ruling.

[EFerrari]

131. He did make a joke about the protesters and some of them were GLBT.

The hall laughed.

Now, if you are right and he wasn't purposefully making a joke, his response was still inadequate. He'd have been further ahead to say something like, I respect people who advocate for their deeply held concerns. It would have cost him nothing to say something like that. :shrug:

Hindsight of someone else's goofs is always 20/20. :)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

138. How is saying "I'm not sure which one" a joke about the protesters?

I just do not see that. It is a comment about the words of ONE protester.

[EFerrari]

142. It got a laugh from the audience. Someone thought it was funny.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

150. Obama's intent can only be taken from Obama himself.

If he gave a speech in front of people and said "Healthcare is a right" and people laughed at him thinking he was naive, it would not in any way change what he said or his intent.

[EFerrari]

155. Obama's intent is only one element in this situation.

Just like my intent in our conversation is only one element.

I can see, I think, what he meant to do and what happened in the hall and what happens when people read about it. There's more than one layer here and if what they read or see in that clip upsets the GLBT community and especially right how, I have no business telling them not to be upset. And in fact, Obama has done a shitty job of addressing their concerns since before he was elected. He's reaping what his team has sown, and that's too bad but it's also the truth. He needs to do better because this is the next civil rights front in this country and he is severely lagging.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

168. *THIS* op is about *THIS* comment.

OPs about the shitty Obama/Gibbs response, the dragging of the feet on DADT, the insulting appointment Jones, etc. etc. etc. are not at issue here.

If this OP linked to *any* of that, it would be another matter. But it doesn't. Instead it tries to add a fresh Obama fail to the pile.

Putting made up grievances (and since this OP alleges that Obama insulted prop 8 protesters when the protester was Armenian, this is at very least less-than-accurate) in the same camp as actual grievances is not going to accomplish anything.

After the Gore/Bush debacle of 2000, I think it is more important than ever to let people's actions speak for them. They NEVER would have been able to play that bullshit 'They're the same! They're the same!" card if people had looked at their actual deeds. And we'd NOT have a war now, we'd have 2 left of center justices and a left of center court and we wouldn't have an economy in the shitter.

And you can't look at people's actual deeds if you accept peoples' less than accurate reporting of them.

[EFerrari]

174. Well, you actually can, SCQ. You can hold your center

and take in the different pieces of the problem. No one's POV is stopping you from doing that. You are still free to come to a conclusion in the privacy of your own mind.

[rvablue]

184. Like it or hate that is how the current system works. And unless you want to see President Palin

or Speaker of the House Eric Cantor or Michele Bachmann, then our party, and that includes the leader of our party, President Obama needs to fundraise.

There are some elections coming up and the campaigns need to be funded.

I seriously can't believe some of the Polyanna stuff I'm reading on here today.

And yeah, if we can get strong majorities in both houses of Congress and a more progressive friendly SCOTUS, then we can get to issues like campaign and election reform once this treachorous economy evens out.

[EFerrari]

187. I have no fear of President Palin, I survived Bush.

And while Obama continues to do the requisite fund raising, he might think about forgoing ambiguous remarks about disenfranchised Americans that will backfire on him.

[nichomachus]

129. Or the Q&A session, where he referred to "a little single-payer" advocate

And then talked about "ideological purity."

[EFerrari]

133. Is there a clip of that, nich? Or is it later in the same one?

I only watched the part about the statement in question.

[nichomachus]

175. That was like a week or so ago

It was posted here on DU -- I was shocked when I saw it. He was so rude and dismissive.

People made fun of Bill Clinton for his "I feel your pain," but as phony as that may have been, it was an attempt to dignify the other person's concern. I find it much more preferable to Obama's belittling of people.

That crap may work with politicians who are supposed to be thick-skinned. Here we have really grieving people coming to Obama for some kind of acknowledgment -- nobody expects him to wave a wand -- and getting not even a civil word.

[EFerrari]

183. Thanks. I missed that.

I think he's making a mistake and one that he'll regret. Whatever. I'm only on the periphery of this but have already made up my mind to stay local and to count on us. That's what we have and imho, it will be enough and soon.

[JuniperLea]

106. You should change this title...

Because it's wrong. You jumped the shark on this one big time.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

114. Obama has broken so many promises....

...How can he be expected to keep up with them all?

(Or so the apologists in this thread are arguing.)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

115. Have you watched the actual clip? Because that isn't what happened.

[Number23]

127. Don't you get it?? IT DOESN'T MATTER

Any opportunity to sh*t on Obama must be taken. As another poster said upthread "truth be damned."

[Bluebear]

139. Yes, poor, poor President Obama. All those gays wanting to shit on him. Whatever.

[EFerrari]

140. What's being missed here is that this was a horrible week

for the GLBT community and for their supporters. Unless you start with that context, you're not going to get very far. That this event took place in CA is like rubbing salt int an open wound. All those rich people who can fork over 30K to dine with the president and so many thousands of people who feel cut off right now.

If you start with that, then maybe this thread makes a little more sense, Number23. This isn't just about slamming Obama.

[JuniperLea]

145. What's being missed...

Is that there is plenty to be pissed about. Making up lies and whipping people into a froth about said lies isn't going to help the situation. It only makes things worse.

[EFerrari]

151. The OP didn't make up any lies, that's your interpretation.

And telling upset people to get in line with their hurt isn't going to help the situation, is it?

At that point, you're asking other people to show more judgment than you are showing them.

[Number23]

156. EVERYBODY gets hurt, Eferrari. What happened with Prop 8 was Bullshit

Even though it was expected, it was BULLSHIT. That there are other states and even components of the federal gov (ie the DoS) making this right is a very good start. And I won't even go into the conversation of "why does Obama only catch the negative and NEVER get any props when great things happen on his watch??!" but DU has long since stopped being the place to go for discussions on fairness.

But there is no way in hell that gives anyone the right to LIE about something our President said.

[EFerrari]

162. Yes, eveyrbody gets hurt when they're made to feel less than fully human

or less than fully citizens of this country.

[Number23]

173. Jesus Christ, you think I don't know that??

I understand that your question is exclusively not directed at me but there is no way that you can act as though I would not be familiar with the concept of being made to feel "less than a full citizen" of my country. You HAVE to know that.

And yet, do I spend all of my time on DU railing against the President, his supporters, the whole damn world including the people who love me and have my back?? NO. But this fool of an OP and a small band of his friends do this FREQUENTLY. REPEATEDLY. OFTEN. Enabling them and backing their idiocy serves them no purpose.

The OP lied. And he freaking all but admitted it in this damn thread. Why in God's name are you defending him?

[EFerrari]

176. Yes, I know you do know that.

The thing is, people don't most need our understanding and support when we agree with them.

[Number23]

209. If only those feelings of generosity and benevolence could be shown to EVERYONE

people don't most need our understanding and support when we agree with them.

And they damn sure don't deserve it nor will they RECEIVE it when they create OP's full of lies and mischaracterizations in an effort to talk sh*t about our President.

I have long since realized that the people on this site who demand "compassion" and "understanding" from everyone else are the LAST ones to show it towards anyone not in their ass-backward little circle. This OP is a prime example of that.

If you choose to defend him and his ilk, then so be it. But the fact that half the posts in this idiotic OP accuse the OP of lying, and it has damn near 200 replies and barely 10 recs says it all.

[EFerrari]

216. If we always went with the majority, Number23, who would we be?

Or, if we measured out our solidarity, would it still be solidarity?

A lot of people upset on this thread. I hope we can work it out.

[JuniperLea]

157. Look at the OP title...

The people who held up those signs were Armenians, not gays. There were a lot of groups out last night.

I just want people to be honest. Making shit up isn't going to help anyone. It is going to hurt the situation.

It was NOT a joke about GLBT protesters! That is a bald faced lie.

[EFerrari]

166. It may be an overstatement but it's not a lie.

And the fact is, Obama referenced the protesters, some of whom were GLBT, and he got a laugh.

Why don't we stick with that instead of trading insults? People are upset. Let's address that because that's the underlying issue here.

[JuniperLea]

169. It is a lie...

The people who held up the sign about promises were a group of Armenians, they were not gay. The OP states that Obama made fun of gays with regard to the statement. He did not. The sign was not about gays. Honesty still means something! It was not a joke about GLBT protestors. That is what the OP states. That is a lie.

[Bluebear]

177. What campaign promises did Obama break that upset the Armenians?

http://www.shewired.com/Article.cfm?Section=1&ID=22920

No mention of Armenians in this article either.

[JuniperLea]

185. I think that's the point...

Nothing in writing, maybe, but here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOTxWiFdMU

I'd really be interested in knowing what exactly they were protesting. Had they been clear about that, there would have been no joking, that's for sure.

I think Obama was making fun of himself for all the promises he made. That'll learn him.

[Howardx]

189. promised to recognize the genocide

perhaps "shewired" magazine doesnt consider that as important as their concerns.

[Howardx]

195. perhaps this will educate

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/511/recognize-armenian-genocide/

[Bluebear]

196. Ah, so he's broken promises to the Armenians too. Glad gays are not the only group. Thanks!

[Howardx]

198. "broken promises" is crap and you know it

did he include a schedule when he made those promises? i doubt it. he hasnt broken anything yet.

[EFerrari]

205. Do you think if he'd been active on GLBT issues

instead of ducking them at every turn that our GLBT DUers would be so upset by THIS?

Think again.

[JuniperLea]

208. I'm thinking that people forget too soon...

We went 'round and 'round on this one during the elections.

Obama has never, ever made a promise about gay marriage. In fact, he's said repeatedly that he is for civil unions but against gay marriage. There were several huge uproars about it at the time.

If I'm wrong, I'd gladly say so... and if you can link me to where he has broken that promise, I'll shut my white, fat assed, straight female mouth.

That should make a hell of a lot of bigots around here happy. Funny how white straight women have never had much say in anything, but now we're being shit on plenty.

Sorry... didn't mean to rant at you Bluebear... I'm just weary of trying to help and being shit on for my effort.

[EFerrari]

179. You seem to understand your own position very well. n/t

[JuniperLea]

186. Video of the Armenians... with the protest sign in question...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOTxWiFdMU

[EFerrari]

193. There is no protest sign in question. It doesn't matter if it was the Armenians

or al Qaida. Some of those protesters were GLBT and Obama was in California. The context can't be stripped to one Armenian with one sign. If doing that would resolve this conflict, I'd be all for it. But it doesn't work that way.

[Howardx]

197. it wasnt "one armenian with one sign"

watch the video, chances are the armenian guy WITH THE BULLHORN was the one obama heard.

[EFerrari]

201. I watched the video and you've completely missed my point.

But, that's okay.

[Howardx]

215. no i understand you perfectly

you think that matter what the facts are, obama was dissing the lgbt community. i get it. its wrong but i get it.

[EFerrari]

217. You continue to miss my point. And, it's still okay.

:)

[Number23]

242. E, Howard and everyone else in this thread has gotten your point

And Howard is right. That the feelings of NO ONE else matter; that it doesn't matter how deliberately dishonest, hateful, and just fucking STUPID etc. some people are on this site that you and a few others will RUSH to their defense.

My question, will you be so "understanding" the next time a black person comes on this site railing about the injustices of whites?? Making up stuff about oh, say Hillary Clinton?? or Joe Biden? Saying Hillary and/or Bill are nazis?? Taking a clip of Jill Biden or Elizabeth Edwards laughing at something and COMPLETELY taking it out of context in an effort to make her look like a racist psychopath??

Hell yeah, it will be untrue. Hell yeah, the person posting it will KNOW it's untrue. But according to you, because that person may be "hurting" or "upset", they have every reason in the world to flat out no bones about it LIE. That's a hell of a thing.

[Number23]

153. So that gives people the right to be dishonest? To blatantly and laughable LIE about this man?

I like you too much to believe that. I don't see how ANYONE could support what this f*cked up OP is trying to do.

[JuniperLea]

163. There is plenty of legitimate things to be angry about...

And Obama isn't a sacred cow. But we water down all the legitimate arguments by propagating lies and whipping everyone up into a frenzy about lies. It's just not right. I expect better from us.

And to have people turn on you because you want to make sure the truth is being told is just disgusting, really.

[4lbs]

203. It's the OP's entire history that is rife with this. He criticizes EVERYTHING that President Obama

does.

He would criticize Obama for getting up on the wrong side of the bed in the morning, if he could.

[Neecy]

161. exactly

He could have taken the opportunity at this millionaire's ball to say a few words to the gay and lesbian Californians who are hurting so soon after the Court ruling. Instead, he makes a little quip - and I'll remind people that the gay protest of this event was covered heavily on the news before it happened, so it's to be expected that many of us thought he was referring to our community.

The only other thing our 'fierce advocate' has said on the topic was a lame joke - another joke - about marrying a guy in Iowa at the WHPA dinner. We're a real laff-riot, aren't we? No wonder so many of us think his comment last night was directed at us.

But I guess it's more fun for straight people to accuse us of being over-sensitive. Too bad our President seems to have no sensitivity whatsoever.

[donheld]

245. Which promise did he break?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

118. lulz

Good one.

[Marr]

120. I can't say I'm disappointed by Obama.

I pretty lost interest when the race came down to the corporate media's two acceptable candidates; Hillary Clinton and Obama. He's proving himself to be another triangulating, mild Republican "Democrat".

[Mari333]

137. even in the clip he said he didnt know what people were protesting

and heard it 'vaguely'...thats insulting on its own. a good leader would have met with the protesters. period.

[shadowknows69]

144. Well, a leader who claimed he was going to listen to us anyway.

[alfredo]

301. What's insulting about not being able to hear something clearly?

Would you want him to put himself and everyone around him at risk? Ask James Brady about the risks of being near the president in public.

[ColbertWatcher]

303. No one is saying he must go across the street and talk to anyone.

What I'm saying (and have been saying) is that if he didn't know which group was asking him to keep his promises, he shouldn't have made any of them the butt of a joke.

Even though he's a nice guy.

Even though he didn't mean any harm.

Especially because he's the President.

[alfredo]

304. Don't think that "joke" might have been directed at himself, not at the protesters?

[ColbertWatcher]

306. Mentioning someone protesting, then mocking the gravity of their cause ?

He knows better.

[alfredo]

309. He wasn't mocking anyone, he was saying he heard the protests, but

didn't know what promise the protester was talking about. He said that the request to keep his promise is fair but which promise, he didn't know. He ended by saying that he is glad they are there.

When bush mimicked a condemned killer, that was mocking. What Obama said was not.

Listen to him again in the video I've posted. Have you even watched the video, or are you relying on the partial quote of the OP?

I'm starting to think you are comfortable with your outrage, that you've have too much invested in it to let other points of view creep in.

[ColbertWatcher]

310. Perhaps you need to reread the OP. I await YOUR apology. n/t

[alfredo]

311. First off, if you saw the other video, it showed the person saying "Obama

keep your promise" was protesting about the Armenian genocide. It wasn't about the GLBT protest. Second: Obama couldn't see the protest, he only heard the guy. Obama mentioned that.

Have you even watched those two videos, or are you willing to accept the quote that feeds your paranoia, not something that could dispel your paranoia?

This is my last reply, you seem unwilling to look at the video evidence. You won't even say if you have or haven't seen them even though I've made several requests for you to view the evidence.

The OP is misleading, and numerous people have pointed that out, and presented evidence to support their position.

[ColbertWatcher]

313. I'm glad you won't be responding as your "evidence" is selective.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5741220&mesg_id=5741220

[alfredo]

314. What does that demonstration have to do with Obama's comments at

the dinner? Remember, he didn't know who was saying "Obama keep your promise." Yes, he should keep his campaign promises. If I yelled at Obama and asked him to keep his promise, would you expect him to know which promise I was referring to?

Have you seen the video of his comment?

[ColbertWatcher]

315. Damn. It doesn't matter if he knew then or if he knows now.

He is the president; he doesn't need to be mocking protesters.

Damn.

[alfredo]

316. You haven't seen the video, and seem to refuse to.

[ColbertWatcher]

317. Which video? The one linked-to in the OP (from Daily Kos) or this one ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5739038&mesg_id=5739571

[alfredo]

321. This one

http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=1155201977&bctid=24514900001

"I don't know which promise he was talking about, but I thought to myself, I like that." He was alluding to the many promises he made.

[ColbertWatcher]

322. That is similar to the one from Daily Kos. n/t

[alfredo]

324. You can see the self deprecating humor. You can also see his appreciation

that they are there to keep his feet to the fire. He asked for us to do that and we are.

[ColbertWatcher]

327. You can also see that he is the President.

Who didn't need to say a thing about the protesters, especially when he couldn't remember the promise.

Did you catch this sub-thread?

Best analysis of the whole mess I've seen.

[alfredo]

328. He doesn't need to say many things, but he made a point that he is

not hostile to those who protest him.

[ColbertWatcher]

329. I wouldn't call ignoring people necessarily "not" hostile.

I guess it could be in a passive-aggressive sort of way.

[ColbertWatcher]

330. Did you read the sub-thread I linked to? Here's the link again ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5739186&mesg_id=5744679

[alfredo]

331. As I have been trying to point out, people have misread his statements

It is not his fault, it is those walking around with chips on their shoulders.

[ColbertWatcher]

332. But, he is responsible for what he said.

Which my point has been he didn't need to say anything.

[alfredo]

333. No matter what he says, there will be someone to criticize him, so why

talk at all. What he said was so benign, it takes a real stretch to find something wrong with it.

[ColbertWatcher]

337. He's the president, his words are amplified.

I am sure he knows that.

[alfredo]

338. He's human and will make mistakes.

[ColbertWatcher]

339. For which he should apologize. n/t

[alfredo]

340. He's not responsible for other people's misreading of a benign statement.

[ColbertWatcher]

341. He's the president, he knows better than to believe his statements ...

... would be:
a. perfect or
b. always understood the exact way that he intended.

It is way past the appropriate time to apologize, other events have shoved this off the public's radar.

He should have apologized that night.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thewiseguy]

238. Go to FreeRepublic then.

[earth mom]

178. Wow-how out of touch can he get?!

:wtf:

[BostonMa]

181. The tone deaf President

[HughMoran]

225. The gullible DUer

.

[high density]

212. A+ disruptive thread

Congrats, well done.

[CreekDog]

213. haw haw, you're quite the cutup butchering Obama's actual quote

to make him look bad.

[alfredo]

221. I find that dishonest and insulting. A lot of people are upset now because

of the false propaganda in the OP>

[HughMoran]

223. Most moronic thread EVER on DU

Wow, this one goes directly into the shitter.

Nice partial quote too :eyes:

[Name removed]

240. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bobbie Jo]

248. +1

[AntiFascist]

224. Like Bush, he knows who the "important" base is n/t

[BlooInBloo]

229. Wow. It's like you guys actually believe the bullshit you make up.

[deaniac21]

241. what the hell is sun choke rosemary potatoes?

[QC]

267. It's something the very best people eat

while getting all sniffy about those vulgar proles out there shouting about something or other in the street.

[donheld]

246. This thread is false and should be locked and thrown away

[HughMoran]

252. It's deliberately deceitful in order to start a flame-war

One reason I called it the most moronic post ever on DU.

[ecstatic]

259. That's what I was just about to say...

WTF? OP proven wrong and now s/he's doing back flips to keep some sort of outrage going. Yes, this thread should be locked and the OP should apologize!

[Lorien]

247. "Promise? What promise? I only said that you could HOPE for CHANGE

that's a campaign slogan, not a promise".

[defendandprotect]

249. Obama used that comment to entertain the audience . . . bad . . . ..!!!

[kid a]

251. THE most ridiculous reaching for outrage....pathetic! Blinded!

[alfredo]

255. Andrew Sullivan- Misreading Obama

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/dissent-of-the-day-11.html#more

[EFerrari]

258. It's "Misreading Obama?"

And, I'd like to ask why anyone needed to guess about Obama's position on this of all weeks in California?

[alfredo]

263. Passions are high, mistakes will be made.

[EFerrari]

265. And in the absence of any response from the White House

besides Gibbs' deflections, people aren't left with better options than trying to interpret the information they already have.

[alfredo]

266. I see no reason to respond. If you watch the video of his comments, and

the video showing it was an Armenian group that was calling for him to keep his promise, you will see Obama is blameless. It appeared to me that he was glad to see people holding his feet to the fire. In that video he says he could hear the man on the bullhorn but didn't know who he represented.

Obama is blameless in this.

If you passed by several demonstrations all chanting, you get snippets of their chants. If you can see them what they are saying might make sense due to visual clues. If you can't see them you won't know their cause. The visuals ad context. Obama could not see the demonstrators so he couldn't put the words into context.

[EFerrari]

268. You are speaking of that event and no, I disagree that Obama is blameless.

Surely he knew what state he was in and what had happened in CA this week. Maybe "blame" is the wrong term in the first place. He was ill prepared to come to any major California city this week.

But more than that, the response from the White House on these unfolding events is usually Gibbs membling something. That isn't helpful to anyone, including Obama. I try to be fair to him and to the buffet he's standing at. But last night when I saw on GayUSA, the two anchoras disparage his spkeman, I had to agree with them. The strategy Gibbs is using will only generate more of these incidents. I hope they rethink it.

[alfredo]

270. Should he have assumed the person he heard was talking about Prop 8?

He would have been criticized for making that incorrect assumption.


Marriage is a state issue, not a federal issue. The same goes for driver's license and fishing licenses. It's really none of his business. This battle needs to be fought out within the states. Once equal rights is accepted in enough states, most others will follow suit. I don't expect states like Alabama or Oklahoma to ever grant full citizenship to Gays and Lesbians. fuck em.

[EFerrari]

271. Gay civil rights is a national issue and to relegate it to any one state

would be a mistake at this juncture.

It's not so much that I want to prescribe for Obama. It's more that what his team is doing right now isn't working. It's creating a lot of bad feeling that, imho, is needless. Maybe I should send them my resume.

lol

[alfredo]

272. Once it reaches the Supreme court it will definitely become a federal issue.

So far several states have done the right thing.

Licensing has always been up to the states. The federal government has stayed out of it. Until the high court speaks, or legislation is passed by congress and signed into law, the federal government has no real say in telling states to allow marriage licenses to same sex couples.

At this point it seems there has been some progress and some setbacks. I feel that time is on our side because each coming generation seems to be more open to the GLBT community.
I remember the long hard fight for civil rights. It had its victories and setbacks.

[EFerrari]

273. Agreed. That the issue moves through the states first is best.

But, it is also a national issue in the sense of media and solidarity. To overlook that is a mistake, imo.

[alfredo]

274. That's the whole idea of "think globally, act locally."

BTW, how long did it take for California auto emission standards to be accepted outside of California?

[EFerrari]

277. Are they yet?

:)

I really do agree with that, alfredo. Local is the best way to go for most of the things people really need right now.

[alfredo]

281. It helps you refine your message.

[ColbertWatcher]

278. How is he "blameless"?

He claimed to want people to hold his feet to the fire, but apparently they're not doing a good enough job because not only can he not remember who the hell they are, but their cause merits so little consideration that they become the butt of a joke.

He did the same thing with Nancy Reagen, and he apologized for it.

[alfredo]

283. He did not see the person that asked the question. He only heard the

bullhorn. Remember he was in his motorcade. It had nothing to do with memory, it has everything about not having any visual clues as to who was speaking and who he represented. It was not his fault that he couldn't match the voice with a specific group among several groups protesting that day.

[ColbertWatcher]

284. If he didn't know who he was talking about why say anything at all?

The President doesn't need to comment on everything; he isn't Homer Simpson.

[Bluebear]

285. D'Ohbama!

:)

[alfredo]

286. He made a good statement about the protester. It wasn't demeaning

it wasn't hostile.

Armenians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOTxWiFdMU


Obama

http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=1155201977&bctid=24514900001

[ColbertWatcher]

287. You may characterize it as not being "demeaning" or "hostile" but it was ...

... insulting and patronizing, which THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA doesn't need to be doing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5741220&mesg_id=5741220

[alfredo]

288. Remember, he was a community activist. I think he was recognizing

himself in those protesting. The last part of his statement, the part that was deleted from the OP showed that he was not offended by people protesting him. Think back to his earlier statements about wanting us to hold his feet to the fire. That's what the bullhorn protester was doing. Though he didn't know the particular issue, he appreciated their efforts.

[ColbertWatcher]

289. Good point, he WAS a community activist; but, NOW he is President.

And, as President, he shouldn't use such dismissive language when speaking about people trying to get his (the President's) attention.

As President, he should apologize.

He did it for Nancy Reagan, he can do it for these community organizers.

[alfredo]

290. When is telling the truth dismissive? Because some in the crowd laughed

didn't mean he was trying to be funny. It was kind of a matter of fact tone, self deprecating tone.

The last couple words sums up what he was feeling, and it was not hostile to the protesters. It was appreciative.

Maybe you want to be offended. Maybe you want to find fault. Check yourself. Is there a fear in you? Is there an undefined anger?

[ColbertWatcher]

291. You came in late to the thread. I've explained it several times.

But, I don't mind explaining it again.

Here goes:

You see, Obama is President of the United States of America now. The expectations for him are higher than they were for the moran who held the office before he did.

Did you hear that he apologized for what Judge Sotomayor said?

[alfredo]

292. She said nothing wrong either. If you read her speech you might see

how the media took her out of context. It was deliberate, just like the quote in the OP.

What exactly is dismissive in Obama's remarks? Was it saying that "Obama keep your promise" was fair? was it saying that he didn't know who was saying that? Was it saying that he thought to himself that protesters were there to hold him accountable was a good thing? Listen to his remarks again and tell me what in that clip was dismissive of the protesters?

bush would have not allowed protesters close enough to be heard.

BTW, there's an old book called "Politics of Experience" by R D Laing. It's quite good.

http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Experience-R-D-Laing/dp/039471475X

Everything we experience is filtered through our own reality. A dog sees a mailman as another dog because of the way the mailman walks from house to house, stopping to "mark" his territory.

[ColbertWatcher]

293. Exactly. The bigger man ends it with an apology. n/t

[alfredo]

294. Still, what in those comments warrants an apology? Was it the crowd

laughing? They are responsible for their own reaction.

Obama is in a constant struggle between wanting to be in touch with the public, the demands of his job and security concerns. He's making references to it all the time. His comment could be a rif on that same theme.

[ColbertWatcher]

295. What warrants the apology is the President making a legitimate protest the butt of a joke. n/t

[alfredo]

296. What was the joke? Was it that he couldn't see the person chanting?

Was it saying that there were protesters? Was it saying he likes there being protesters? Was it that he was confused/frustrated by the chant because he didn't know the promise that went with that chant? Was he cracking on his own confusion? What humor I saw was a self deprecating, something he does quite frequently. His humor was directed inward, not toward anyone else.

[ColbertWatcher]

298. When he took a swipe at Nancy Reagan that wasn't directed inwardly.

Neither was this remark.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5741220&mesg_id=5741220

If he didn't know who he was addressing, then he shouldn't have said anything.

[alfredo]

300. That's what he heard, but he didn't know it came from the Armenian

protest. I'm Armenian and I don't feel I was disrespected.

You know he probably misses a lot while traveling in his motorcade. If you looked at the video of the Armenian protest, the person with the bull horn was behind other protesters. His bull horn was turning every which way. If you are driving (with windows up) by a crowd chanting different chants, waving signs on various issue, can you tell from where behind the crowd a specific person is chanting?

It was self deprecating humor. Should he apologize to himself?

[ColbertWatcher]

302. He said it outloud, he should apologize to the protesters. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

319. Kudos to Sully for being man enough to admit being wrong.

[lies and propaganda]

261. give him leno's job!

he can laugh at us 5 nights a week!

[pnutbutr]

264. WOW What the hell is wrong with Melanie Griffith's face GODDAM

[iamthebandfanman]

269. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION OUR PRESIDENT!

you unamerican so and so!


t-hee.

[and-justice-for-all]

282. it is not very funny at all...nt

[roamer65]

299. Hopefully we have third party in 2012.

I'll vote for them. I'm tired of a one party system masquerading as a two party system. 30K a plate dinners in the middle of the Great Recession...Christ.

[Kontora]

308. 30k plate dinners

Can I see your source for this statement?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

307. I think he just insulted himself

But I won't stop the train at this point.

[HamdenRice]

312. This story was completely debunked. Why is it still getting kicked? nt

[BlooInBloo]

318. Wow. This lie is still alive.

[NoodleyAppendage]

320. Yeah, he should be pilloried for not immediately responding to the GLBT community.

There's nothing else pressing in the world right now. I mean what's he thinking. It should be at the top of the Presidential list regardless of the consequences or outcomes.

Fools rush in.

J

[NeedleCast]

334. The President Should Not Joke About Anything, Ever

He might offend someone, somewhere.

(sarcasm.jpg)

[reflection]

336. Man, I would have thought this thread would be locked by now.

:shrug: