Breaking: US Army moves to DEFCON 2

[santamargarita]

Just got this email:

28 May 2009 Sources close to MiNa claim the US Army has moved their alert level to Defcon 2. This was initiated by the alarming situation in North Korea. The US Army has over 35,000 troops stationed in South Korea, well within reach of North Korean conventional weapons. North Korea has the largest artillery force in the world, which adds more to the already tense situation. Earlier today, N. Korea's leader Kim Jong Il issued threats to the South Korean and US Navy ships for coming too close to North Korea's territorial waters.

http://www.legitgov.org/

[thewiseguy]

1. BULLSHIT!

We are at Defcon 4 and if anything they would move it to Defcon 3, which is unlikely at this point.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. Is Defcon 4

good? Or bad?

On edit - I just googled it.

I like 4.................

[thewiseguy]

4. Definitions here:

DEFCON 4: This refers to normal, increased intelligence and the heightening of national security measures.

DEFCON 2: This refers to a further increase in force readiness just below maximum readiness. The most notable time it was declared was during the Cuban Missile Crisis, although the declaration was limited to Strategic Air Command. It is not certain how many times this level of readiness has been reached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Thanks very much ........

My education continues...........

[santamargarita]

3. I thought so too, wanted to see if anyone else feels the same

~

[greyl]

26. Yeah, that source is known for sensationalistic bullshit.

A lot like the MSM, only more bullshit.

[Johnyawl]

9. As crazy as Kim is...

...the 35,000 troops in Korea should be at Defcon 3 permanently

[davidpdx]

27. 28,500 actually

[Statistical]

35. A speed bump.

I was stationed at Camp Gary Owen.

28K of us, about 15K are combat troops. 1.5 million of them. We have 120 tanks and about 80 bradleys, 106 Paladins (artillery) and 84 MLRS (rocket artillery).

They have 8,000 tanks & APC and 20,000 artillery pieces.

Likely any American forces would be wiped out within first hour or so.
Granted superior training & equipment means it will cost NK substantially (maybe even losing 20:1) but they will simply roll over any defense by American forces.

However the deaths of 28,000 American servicemen in an unprovoked attack would give the President the political cover to do anything in response. Imagine 9/11 on a larger scale with CNN showing miles of destroyed American tanks, burning barracks, and dead soldiers in the street. After that if the President wants to use nuclear weapons nobody is going to challenge it.

NK knows this.
We know NK knows this.
NK knows we know that they know this.

This has kept the Korea peninsula from escalating into a shooting war.

[Ganja Ninja]

36. One thing to remember.

They haven't fought a war in almost 60 years. Our weapons have been tested and proven in combat. And if there's one thing we seem to be able to do and do well it's wipe out massed troop and armor formations.

Yeah it will be a blood bath but it won't be a walk in the park for NK.

[Statistical]

39. Never thought it was.

They may lose a hundred thousand or more troops in an invasion.
They simply have too many people and 20,000 artillery pieces can litterally reduce South Korea to rubble.

No doubt the American soldiers would put up an amazing defense but given the limit numbers and the small distance they eventually will be overwhelmed.

We joked about it at Gary Owen (the closest camp to the DMZ). If the come they WILL kill us so we might as well make it a fight people will still remember in a 1000 years.

[MilesColtrane]

40. I read somewhere over a year ago that U.S. forces were planning to...

...relocate further south, out of immediate range of NK artillery.

Since this means moving entire bases, I doubt if much has happened yet on this.

[Statistical]

43. I doubt it will.

NK artillery can hit Seoul.

So any camps would need to be south of Seoul.
In any invasion it would put American forces behind the large civilian population of Seoul which would be another tactical nightmare.

Plus they could simply pound Seoul forcing the President to either sit there and let the casualties rack into the 10,000 per HOUR range or move forces forward.

The geography of Korea makes any defense very difficult. It also makes any swift crippling strike on NK equally difficult.

So the status-quo remains.

[MilesColtrane]

46. The plan would put U.S. troops a little over 60kms south of Seoul.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/01/116_37344.html

Yongsan Garrison to Be Relocated by 2014
By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter

South Korea and the United States have agreed to complete the relocation of the U.S. military headquarters in Yongsan, Seoul, to an expanded military base in Pyeongtaek, Gyeonggi Province, by 2014, defense ministry officials said Monday.

The two sides, however, remain split over the timeline for moving the bases of the 2nd Infantry Division (ID) scattered around the north of Seoul, they said.

South Korea wants to complete the 2nd ID relocation by the time the relocation of Yongsan Army Garrison is finalized, while the United States has targeted 2016, both citing pressure in costs, they said.

-snip-

The two allies agreed that South Korea will bear the cost of relocating Yongsan Garrison, while the United States will foot the bill for moving 2nd ID bases.

The relocation had been scheduled to be completed by 2008. But the plan hit a snag due to protest rallies by anti-U.S. groups and local farmers. Seoul and Washington later readjusted the target year to 2012.

[Statistical]

47. relocating Yongsan makes sense.

It is an Army base (HQ type stuff) located in Seoul.

It would be like Los Angeles having a giant Army base right in the middle of it.
Relocating the camps nears the DMZ sounds like a recipe for failure.

There is a section of area near the DMZ that is essentially a series of natural choke points (think modern day 300).
In an invasion defending forces would need to move quickly to secure fighting positions in that area.
It acts as a multiplier forcing the North to engage on bad terrain with little cover, and little room to maneuver.

If North gets their first it is all over before it begins.
At camp Gary Owen one unit is locked down to the post ready to move out in less than 30 minutes 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
Lose the pass, lose the country. No wonder why Army is dragging its heels.

[MilesColtrane]

48. I had the privilege of playing a concert for the guys at Gary Owen (I think it was...

... Camp Pelham back then) in '87, and I remember thinking at the time that they would all be toast in the event of a full scale invasion by the NKPA.

...some brave motherfuckers. My hat's off to you.

That was the same tour in which the band was on a CH-47 that had engine problems leaving KOTAR. Fortunately, we were able to make an incidence-free emergency landing at a ROK base.

good times....good times

[11 Bravo]

41. 7th Cav?

[Statistical]

44. Yeah 4-7 "OUT FRONT!".

I went there right out of basic.
A year as a Bradley crew member.
Being young, stupid, and single I loved it.

Still remember being locked down to the camp for 7 days at a time as part of Squadron Ready Force One ready to execute no-notice missions if NK penetrates the DMZ 24/7 365 days a year.

I would never want to go back though :)

[Best_man23]

13. Have to agree its BS, for now

If DoD had gone to Defcon 2, all Military bases and installations in CONUS and outside would go to increased security.

Also, I'm certain the DHS threat level would be Red.

[defendandprotect]

15. Amazing that we could get thru the Cold War with much less difficulty . . .

Then the assassination of JFK --

and Vietnam years -- Nixon continuing on --

And the new warmongers . . . the Bushes, Cheney, Rumsfeld . . .

setting the world on fire!

[BlooInBloo]

45. Thanks for the quick bullshit call.

[bemildred]

6. So Iraq and Afghanstan are nothing special?

Is this a new color code?

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. Isn't it "WATCHCON TWO"? And isn't it limited to the DMZ between NoKo and SoKo?

That's I thought I heard anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Yes, but it took some digging

[armyowalgreens]

8. I'm going out for a bit to pick up a chemical suit, shotgun and bathroom reader.

That should hold me down for a while. At least until the shooting stops.

[cliffordu]

10. NOW can I use my duct tape and plastic sheeting????

[NightWatcher]

11. hang on, not yet.... ok maybe.....nope, not yet......NOW NOW!!!

[cliffordu]

12. OMFG!!!!111 !!!!111 SERIES!!!11 11 !!!!

HAAAAAAAALLLLLLLPP!!!!!!!!

[bridgit]

14. You mean: WatchCon II?

'North Korea: U.S., South Korea At WatchCon II

The U.S. and South Korean militaries have raised surveillance of North Korea to the second-highest level on the five-stage “Watchcon” meter, while the “Defcon” status — the five-stage combat alert level — remains unchanged at four, Yonhap news agency reported May 28, citing a South Korean defense spokesman. At Watchcon II, military units deploy additional intelligence personnel and other assets and increase reconnaissance operations over North Korean territory.'

http://www.stratfor.com/sitrep/20090528_north_korea_u_s_south_korea_watchcon_ii

[davidpdx]

28. Bridgit, good catch there

Yes, here in Korea the military is on higher alert then in the US. It doesn't really affect things in the US right now unless something actually happens. If it does, my ass is toast and you won't be hearing from me anymore most likely since I'm in Seoul. At least I have a motorbike and can flee on that. Not sure what to tell the wife...."ah honey, every man for himself" LOL

[Kaleko]

29. Be sure to wear a helmet

and some fire-retardent underwear, my friend.

:hi:

[davidpdx]

30. Thanks for the advice, I'll be going East and then South

If need be, I'll go right into the ocean and drive my way to San Fran

[Kaleko]

32. Nothing can stop you.

Once you tap into Superdavepdx, Kim Jong Il's nukes become rocket fuel for your bike.

San Francisco, here he comes!!!

[bridgit]

31. thank *you*, david

for your service :)

[davidpdx]

33. Wish I could say I was in the military, but I'm not

I am actually a teacher. I'd probably be alot safer if I were military person.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Just to clarify foreign media is getting it wrong

not defcon, but WATCHCON and applies only to the Korean theater. It has four stages and it was also raised three years ago to 2.

It is still very serious, but DEFCON usually applies to CONUS... first thing that had me going WTF? Took some digging, but NYT has the story on this. And yes also the BBC is confused... damn US media... as in movies... war games comes to mind

[TheWatcher]

18. I figured that sounded a little alarmist.

It's still a very scary situation that bears watching.

The energy everywhere is very raw and unstable tonight.

It's not good, my friend.

I am afraid.

Just in general.

Something is about to pop.

Let's hope it's nothing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. It is very serious and stay away from right wing blogosphere

they are even giving OpPlans, yep you read that right...

Either that or they are full of shit... but liberty news has been fun tonight... kind of, can I take notes? For a fiction book that is.

As to Korea it is still very serious.

We might get a hot war there... and that would only be the armistice failing, the war never ended.

[thewiseguy]

21. OpPlans of what?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. The war, they have actually figured it out how this will go

and for some strange reason it reads like... Afghanistan and Iraq.. redux, all the way to the lack of radar net for the N. Koreans, which they have, a radar net that is. Some of the fantasies are just damn funny. I am sure the Navy would love it of the Cruise missiles were even a tenth as powerful as these keyboard commandos think they are.

[Statistical]

20. Yeah Defcon 2 would be a bad thing....

Unlike the stupid terrorist threat colors moving DEFCON is generally reserved for the real deal.

The Yon Kupur war prompted a move to DEFCON2 (due to possible Soviet response to US aid) as did Cuban Missile Crisis (although only Strategic Air Command switched).

Sept 11th prompted move to DEFCON3. I remember us closing the post. All civilians asked to leave and the gates to the post were blocked with an armored checkpoint.

DEFCON5 = peace
....
DEFCON1 = immediate and verified attack by foreign power. If the other side is nuclear capable likely it has already escalated to a nuclear exchange.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. You want some hilarious shit that makes this media confusion look mild

mosie over to Liberty News.

I kid you not, they even tell me the OpPlan for the Sub Force.... hubby was a bubblehead, I went who are these keyboard warriors kidding? As well as the whole OpPlan. You should know a few hundred cruise missiles will also destroy a million + man force.

Now THAT is some funny shit.

And here is a piece of trivia... there is one more time when we went to Defcon 2... and that would have been purely accidental. After the USSR fell, they had a problem with radars and they went almost all the way, we went almost all the way. The least known incident that involved only a OOOPS, thank the gods nobody fired,

Only time a national leader actually opened the football, and that was the President of Russia. He's talked about it, and how that would have been the accidental war.

As to Sept 11... I remember Pearl Harbor... and the 50 Cal HMGs going up.

[TheWatcher]

24. Was that the incedent where the Norwegians sent up a Weather Satellite and Yeltsin thought it was a

NATO Launch?

I seem to remember that's how it went, and someone stopped Yeltsin before he pulled a Stilson.

Or am I reading too many Clancy Novels and playing too much Rainbow Six? :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. That's it... and the reason why it is funny

is ... the real fear of most observers is the accidental war.

Oh and by the way, this is quite a bit of INSIDE baseball... GEEKS of the world unite!

[rucky]

38. Also when Matthew Broderick hacked into the NORAD system.

[armyowalgreens]

34. Well shit what am I suppose to do with my chemical suit?

:( It thought this was going to be the end of days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Good fer the NEXT HAZMAT incident

and not to make light of this, IT IS serious, just that they got the alphabet soup wrong

[Joanne98]

37. zzzzzzzzz

:boring:

Another distraction. Keep your eye on the MONEY!