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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:31 AM
Original message
Senator Carl Levin: Cheney is lying

http://www.isria.com/pages/29_May_2009_12.htm

Remarks of US Senator Carl Levin at the Foreign Policy Association

<snip>

But then last week, a voice from the recent past reemerged, claiming that America can do what we please, preaching unilateralism again, and embracing the arrogance that for too many years alienated our friends and set back efforts to achieve common goals. Former Vice President Cheney’s world view, which so dominated the Bush years and which so dishonored our nation, gained a little traction last week – enough to persuade me to address it head on here tonight.

I do so as Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, which recently completed an eighteen month investigation into the abuse of detainees in U.S. custody and produced a 200 page bipartisan report which gives the lie to Mr. Cheney’s claims. I do so because if the abusive interrogation techniques that he champions – the face of which were the pictures of abuse at Abu Ghraib – if they are once more seen as representative of America, our security will be severely set back.

When former Vice President Cheney said last week that what happened at Abu Ghraib was the work of “a few sadistic prison guards” acting on their own, he bore false witness. And when he said last week there was no link between the techniques used at Abu Ghraib and those approved for use in the CIA’s secret prisons, he again strayed from the truth. The seeds of Abu Ghraib’s rotten fruit were sown by civilians at the highest levels of our government.

On September 16, 2001, Vice President Cheney suggested that the United States turn to the “dark side,” his words, in our response to 9/11. Not long after that, White House Counsel Gonzales called provisions of the Geneva Conventions “quaint,” and President Bush determined that provisions of the Conventions did not apply to detainees captured in the Afghanistan war. Senior administration officials followed the President and Vice President’s lead. Our recent bipartisan Senate Armed Services Committee report determined the following: “Senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of legality, and authorized their use against detainees.”

...

Mr. Cheney has also claimed that the release of classified documents would prove his view that the techniques worked. But those classified documents say nothing about numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of the abusive techniques. I hope that the documents are declassified so that people can judge for themselves what is fact and what is fiction. Mr. Cheney has made other false statements. For instance, his claim that the techniques used on detainees were the “same exact procedures” used on our own people in the SERE training regime. That could not be farther from the truth. A report by the CIA Inspector General said that the CIA’s Office of Medical Services judged that the SERE waterboard experience is totally different from the CIA’s usage. And the reason is absolutely clear. SERE training is administered to our own people in highly controlled settings and can be terminated at any time by the student during the training. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month. Waterboarding one of our own personnel even once over their objection would be a felony. It is a colossal misrepresentation for Mr. Cheney to claim that the techniques we use in SERE training are exactly the same, his words, as those used against detainees. The abuse of detainees in our custody has alienated our allies. It has fueled al Qaeda’s propaganda. And it has served as a recruitment tool for terrorists. At a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing last year, former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora testified that “there are serving U.S. flag-rank officers who maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq – as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat – are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.” The vivid reports of U.S. personnel abusing detainees have also contributed to the decline of America’s standing in the world. Since the world embraced us after 9/11, its support for us has been dramatically diminished. And that should set off alarm bells for all of us, because we need the good will of people around the world for our own security and to deal with the greatest threats that we face. The bottom line in this debate was articulated by the Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, who said recently that, “the damage have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us.” Mr. Cheney’s support of abusive techniques dishonors our nation and the men and women who wear our nation’s uniform. Listen to what a Captain in the 82nd Airborne Division wrote about the abuse of detainees that he had witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In a letter to Senator McCain, he posed what he called “the most important question that this generation will answer,” – “Do we sacrifice our ideals in order to preserve security?” That Army Captain said in his extraordinarily eloquent words and in his own way that he would “rather die fighting than give up even the smallest part of that idea that is ‘America.’”

Finally, the assertion by Mr. Cheney that the abuse of detainees in U.S. custody at Abu Ghraib were the actions of “a few sadistic prison guards” acting on their own is not only false, it is a shameful attempt to avoid accountability for those who were the most responsible – those senior civilian officials who, in the words of our bipartisan Armed Services Committee report “solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of legality, and authorized their use against detainees.” Until now, mainly lower ranking military personnel have been left to take the rap for the abuses at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. I believe it is dishonorable and a failure of leadership to lay the sins of Abu Ghraib solely at their doorstep. The buck, to date, has stopped far below where it belongs.

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmm wonder why Dick would be coming out in public about all this
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. VIDEO HERE:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here they come....Here They Come,,,THEY are HERE...TRUTH and SANITY
Long Hidden and Suppressed in jungle prisons...but rescued by Logic and Reason...they both are on the National Team to help restore our Nation...

Cheney, of the Darker side of things, is a sterling example of EVIL....He has been exposed as a prevaricator....he will soon be in prison....
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. We can hope that Cheney pisses off enough people they finally prosecute him
and the rest of his band of criminals.
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PearliePoo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wow.....Senator Levin...You GO get 'em
I like this part:
"Until now, mainly lower ranking military personnel have been left to take the rap for the abuses at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. I believe it is dishonorable and a failure of leadership to lay the sins of Abu Ghraib solely at their doorstep. The buck, to date, has stopped far below where it belongs."
and...where does the old buck stop? At the TOP.
Levin is basically calling Cheney dishonorable and a failure.
PS . Shuster now on MSNBC right now talking about it with Lawrence O'Donnell!
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Buchanan----in my paper today: "Cheney gives GOP a lesson"
I hope Pat reads what Senator Levin has to say because he just loves Cheney:

"Cheney comes to this quarrel armed with credibility, certitude, consistency and conviction born of eight years of success."

"Again, Cheney is winning because he has been there and his position is reality-based. For, while the use of harsh interrogation techniques is a legal question, it also presents a moral dilemma. A moral case can be made that, given the murderers we confronted, the prospect of more U.S. dead, the non-lethality of the techniques and the value of the intelligence acquired, it was the right thing to do."

"The Republican Party needs to get off the psychiatrist’s couch, and stand up and fight for what it believes. You don’t need a moderate with a pretty face to deliver a moderate message. The former vice president with the crocodile grin has just shown the way."
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Eight years of success?
I guess Pat's forgotten 9/11/2001.
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Hannity surely did
said so himself.

See video of interview with Liz Cheney. Raw Story has it.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. What part of 9-11 wasn't a success?
Bush's ratings soared to 90% immediately afterward.

Cheney was able to leverage an apparent attack by a bunch of Saudis into grounds for the war against Iraq he had wanted.

They were able to create a private army (Blackwater) and enrich Cheney's old buddies at Halliburton/KBR.

They were able to stretch their malfeasance out for two terms.

They're avoiding prosecution very slickly.

etc.

So how did they fail?

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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. opps
Edited on Sat May-30-09 08:45 PM by CLANG
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Dammit
For a second there, I thought the OP said "Senator Carl Levin: Cheney is dying"

Way to give me a quick thrill and then take it away :P
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Heh
Yeah, but that was one hell of a smackdown Levin put on Cheney. I know Levin has been itching for 8 years to put a wrench to Cheney's plans, and he finally had a chance. Go Carl!!
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
:kick:
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. "If they are once more seen"? That horror remains "representative of America."
Unless and until Obama decides to do something tangible about it.

--
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livefreest Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. it's all fine however without prosecution the dick and his daughter
will always be free to roam our television screens spreading their lies. and an easily frighten-able American people will believe them. there is a simple logic:"If the dick is lying then why isn't this democratic congress prosecuting him?" i bet that's what many are wandering in the middle of Arkansas, Idaho, wyoming, Tennessee, and such
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thank-you
Senator Levin

HOW MANY MORE TIMES,DOES THIS NATION HAVE TO BE SUBJECTED TO CHENEY LYING TO US?

PUT HIM IN AWAY.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. i don't see this ANYFUCKINGWHERE in the msm......
Edited on Sat May-30-09 09:54 AM by spanone
THAT should have been the headline across america this morning...instead it's sotomayor is a racist.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
17. Time to call Cheney's bluff
You want documents and memos released, douchebag? Fine, I want Obama to release everything right now. Prove categorically that he's a fucking liar and torturer. Then have him arrested and sent to the Hague to be convicted. But waterboard the fucking prick first since it's just a little water on his face. It will be one big joke to Dickhead.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Please take 2 minutes to thank Senator Levin...
http://levin.senate.gov/

He deserves it for being
the face of morality and
commonsense in this issue.

It is unusual for a politician
to confront villains so plainly.
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. One thing is certain, Cheney cannot claim the fifth, after
doing the media blitz of all time. He is going to testify. I expect some variation of "The truth, you cant handle the truth" or somesuch. His daughters career is stillborn. And any memoirs will have the profits confiscated to pay for the damage he did to brave young American servicemen. And running will do NO GOOD. All other countries hate his guts. Even Bush is being taken out of mothballs. The searing eye depicted on our money is about to train it's gaze on dear Dickie. He did most of the work for us of proving culpability. Unfortunately, he has been working the diminished capacity angle for years. My heart was responsible. Or lack thereof. The little boy Bush gonna slay satan and usher in the millenium for unca dickie will find the light of day. Hope Rumsfeld doesnt think he's skatin either. He was the satan voodoo priest. We had as close as I ever care to come to pure evil. In several incarnations. We can ill afford at this late date to allow another watergate not dealt with to fester. That brought us Cheney. And rumsfeld. That should be sokid PROOF, that real investigations must be conducted. And we must not shy away from the needs of justice.
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