Capital One changes my terms, then REFUSES to accept it when I decline in writing.

[FlyingSquirrel]

(This was done online through account messaging)



Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Account ending in: XXXX

I choose to decline the rate changes to my account. Please close my
account when you receive this message. Thank you, XXXXXXXXX



Their Response:
--------------

Date: May 20, 2009 04:46 PM
Subject: Re: Account terms (fees, APR, etc.)
Message: Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for contacting us about your Capital One® account. You
recently wrote us to let us know you want to decline the changes to your
account terms. Unfortunately, you cannot decline the changes to your
account in writing. To decline the changes, please call 1-800-214-3755.
The deadline for declining changes is 8:00 p.m. on July 28, 2009.

Once you decline these changes, you will not be able to reopen you’re
account. It will be permanently closed on August 2, 2009. If you decline
the changes, you will be able to pay down your balance at your existing
terms.

If you have any questions, please call us at 1-800-955-7070. Our
Customer Service Representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week.

Sincerely,

Capital One Services, LLC



My Response:
-----------
BS. You're trying to make it so I can't prove that I declined the changes. I called your toll-free number and declined the changes. Please tell me in writing that you've received my phone message declining the changes. Every other credit card company I've had has allowed me to cancel in writing, and I see no reason for you not to accept my declining in writing except for you to be able to deny that I've done so.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. That's really strange.

I was notified (in writing) that the interest rate on a credit card (that I hadn't used in a long time) was being raised, not because of anything about my account in particular, but because of their "business decision." The letter said if I wanted to close the account I had to notify them in writing. Which I did -- and a couple weeks later I got a written acknowledgment that I'd close the account.

It is very odd that they wouldn't let you cancel in writing. WTF?

[imdjh]

11. Curiosity- why did you close the account?

I got the same notice. I am carrying a small balance at a very low interest rate. The notice said that special rate balances would not be affected, so there is no reason for me to close the account at this time. I'm wondering why you would do that if you have a zero balance.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. It was kind of a matter of principle.

Although I could have kept the account open because I wasn't using it, I didn't much like the fact that they unilaterally raised the interest rate by a LOT -- like from about 8% to a minimum of 18.99%. I don't want to do business with a bank that pulls that kind of crap, and I wanted them to know that. If I need another credit card I can get one from my credit union, which is much less likely to screw me.

[onethatcares]

38. I joined with you in that

from 6.9 to 18.99% for no reason except the unusual financial problems affecting our country at this time. Which they helped to bring on. It's not in my wallet. BTW, the 18.99% was a variable tied to the prime and we all know they'd find a way to accidentally find a reason to take it to 34.88% just because they could.

Don't forget the moment of purchase also.

Have you seen their commercials lately, you can put your own picture on their card and think you got something special.

[LeftyMom]

2. Send a letter to that effect via certified mail.

I would include printed copies of the email as well as a nice business letter telling them where to stick their account changes.

[Fresh_Start]

6. I agree with you....

there are a number of consumer statutes where your rights are only protected if you write to your creditor.

And while it is a pain in the ass, call them too. But absolutely make sure you have written communication. Electronic communication is not the equivalent of old fashion written communication.

[CC]

3. I was sent the new terms too only

I canceled my card two years ago and again last year. You are right to not count on them canceling the card. They don't bother even when it is in writing too.

[NYC_SKP]

4. Be sure to tell them on the phone, "For security reasons, I'm recording this call."

It really messes with their mind.

:evilgrin:

[RB TexLa]

21. You don't have to tell them. You can just record it, they say you can at the beginning of the call.

[Statistical]

41. In some states not notifying the other party they are being recorded is a crime n/t

[RB TexLa]

43. If the people you call have a message saying "this call may be recorded for quality purposes"

they have made the notification, you do not have to notify them again. They have already stated the call may be recorded.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Gee ............

A credit card company acting like a shit.

Who would have guessed?

[virgogal]

7. They are slime and not worth getting upset over. Just call the 800

number and cut up the card. You can still pay down at your current terms and be sure to save the letter they sent to you.

[FlyingSquirrel]

8. I did call the 800 number. But I have no proof that I did so.

I want proof. If I were to send something in writing, I would still have no proof - only thing I could prove was that I sent a letter and they received it. Couldn't prove what I sent, even if I made a copy for myself. That's why I want to do it via their messaging system.

[imdjh]

16. You are wise to do so. There have been cases where an ex-spouse called and reopened an acct.

Scenario- John and Jane have a co-obligated credit account with Cap One. John calls and closes the account. Unbeknownst to him, Jane called and reopened they account. They got divorced, and months or years down the road, John finds out he's co-obligated for a delinquent balance.

Scenario- John and Jane get divorced. Judge orders John to pay off the Cap One acct. Guess what? The judge does not have the authority to make Jane less obligated than she was when they were married. Jane finds out that the account is still open and unpaid when she get the call from the collection department.

[izquierdista]

20. So much for the "Rule of Law"

I don't see why people are paying attention to the Supreme Court pick. After all, Justice Sotomayor still won't be able to do what a clerk in a credit card collection department can do -- hold you responsible for your ex-wife's debt.

[Statistical]

18. Send letter by certified mail

Certified mail is legal proof that they received the letter.
If later they say "we didn't get a letter" the certified receipt is proof.

No judge is going to accept them saying....
"well we got a letter but we think it was another letter".
The judge is going to ask them to show the letter they received by certified mail.

When they can't produce any letter you copy is what will be considered.

That is the purpose of certified mail.

If people could just "lose" certified mail documents and all certified mail proved if you mailed "something" then it would have no purpose.

99.9999999999999999% it isn't going to court but.....

1) even if they replied by email and you printed that out it isn't legally enforceable. They could simply say "our records show no such email". How do you prove what you printed out wasn't made up by you after the fact?

2) if really are worried write your letter and make a copy. send it via certified mail and then when you get the certified mail receipt attach that to your copy. put it in a safe and it is cheap insurance.

[katanalori]

9. They are incompetent....

Raised my rates. I cancelled card and destroyed it. Every month since, they send me a bill for ZERO due.

[liberalhistorian]

25. Just take some satisfaction in the fact that it costs

them money every month to send that to you, lol.

[Codeine]

10. "you will not be able to reopen you’re account."

And illiterate to boot!

[Oregone]

13. Give em a break.

ESL. The person who wrote that probably knows more languages than you. :)

Ya got to when you're living halfway across the world as an outsourced-laborer.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I would worry about the source of that messaging. You may have actually been slammed.

Did you type out the response or did you cut and paste it. If you cut and paste it, then this makes me REALLY worry:

"Once you decline these changes, you will not be able to reopen you’re
account. It will be permanently closed on August 2, 2009. If you decline
the changes, you will be able to pay down your balance at your existing
terms."

I find it hard to believe - but not impossible - they would have used "you're" instead of "your" in the first line of that paragraph.

[Bozita]

15. Exactly!

[FlyingSquirrel]

17. It was an internal message on their official website - not sent to my email.

Also, they just responded as "Capital One Services, LLC" - not by name of any particular person in customer service.

I'm filing a complaint with the FTC right now.

[dorkulon]

23. It's one fo the most common mistakes in written English--not too hard to believe.

Although it's usually "your" mistaken used for "you're." Only more common error I can think of is confusing "its" and "it's."

[flvegan]

14. By declining, you're basically closing future charges to the account

and you can pay off at your current APR/terms. Fuck them. They're as stupid as too many of the real estate lenders. Rather than keeping a performing account, they're just killing them.

[JVS]

28. Why do you think they're being difficult with the procedure of closing the account?

They want to squeeze, but they don't want people to leave, thus they give a run-around on quitting the account

[flvegan]

33. Just a guess, but

by taking the refusal over the phone, they're getting a recording of you stating you refuse the new terms but you accept that you owe $XX as debt and still agree to pay it off at the already accepted rate. If they ever have to sue or if they are ever sued, they've got pretty convincing evidence that the debtor agreed to pay the debt.

I also think that considering most of these outstanding debts will need 4 or 5 years to pay off, the lenders will probably want to reinstate the account before they're paid off. Pretty sleazy, but economically savvy.

[madeline_con]

22. "... you will not be able to reopen you’re ..." Who writes this shit?

[bridgit]

24. When you did, did you make payments to them online? Or by PO? Either way...

you could have sent your declination to the payment ctr 'certified receipt' and gotten a bit of come-back as to their having received it. I can see why they'd prefer your calling in: maiden names, DOB's, favorite pets and stuff - case sensitive/verify and all that. Otherwise people could find/lift wallets and cause all kinds of grief. But I almost feel sorry for them cause the rest of it reads like they're a big dumb robot shutting down within like 1.75 exchanges - click; click; slam!

[blogslut]

26. Seond it again via Certified Mail

That way, you have proof.

[progressivebydesign]

32. No, they just need to call the number. That's for the cardholder's protection, too. n/t

[dgibby]

27. Are you aware that closing your account will have a negative effect on your credit rating?

[FlyingSquirrel]

36. Yes. I am well aware of it.

And I don't care. They are using that to make people too afraid to close their accounts, and instead put up with the bullshit they pull and keep paying ever higher rates.

I'd rather close the account, pay off the balance, and live with the slightly lower credit rating which is a temporary thing anyway. I simply can't see paying hundreds (and eventually thousands) more in interest fees to protect a credit rating.

[david13]

29. capitol one is well known as the stinking worst. n/t

[Hatchling]

30. Instead of simply closing the account..

Why not have a balance transfer to a credit account with your credit union. It doesn't affect your credit and they completely lose out. They hate balance transfers and it's a great way to stick it to them.

[progressivebydesign]

31. They didn't keep you from declining it, you just have to call their 800 number.

That's not the same thing. For your own credit protection, they have to speak with you directly so that they can verify that you're truly the cardholder, and have a recording of you closing the account. While I despise the credit card companies, and I think what they're doing is bullshit, I find nothing particularly heinous in their request to have you call. In fact.. many people have successfully gotten the companies to rescind the change by asking via phone.

I had a problem with my Citibank business card last week. In a rush, I'd accidentally made my payment on a closed account that was still in the my list of bank accounts online. The payment was rejected, and they jacked my interest rate up to 29.9%, from 6.9% in a blink of an eye. When they called to tell me that I'd missed a payment, I was so upset and explained what happened. Not only did they reverse the interest hike, they refunded the late fee, took care of the extra finance charges, and told me I was a valuable customer that they didn't want to lose. If you get the right person, you can often get them to change things back.

But I totally understand the principal of the thing. I've cancelled a few accounts for the same reason. And when you call these places, lots of times you get India. There's a special place in hell for companies that jack you around all the while sending jobs overseas. At some point.. maybe they'll figure out that by sending all our jobs overseas we can't afford to buy their products or pay our credit card bills anymore.

[jazzjunkysue]

34. Yep. I was one day late to HSBC and they removed the charge when I called.

I told the guy: "You need me alot more than I need you."

BYW: I never run balances on my cards. They lose $$ on me.

[FlyingSquirrel]

35. If I were not truly the cardholder, how could I have logged into my account?

And do they have any way of knowing what my voice sounds like?

Why are you defending them?

[roody]

37. I opened this while on the phone with Capital One to open

an account. I want a card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee.

[BlooInBloo]

39. Do you really want anyone to be able to send a letter closing your account?

[FlyingSquirrel]

40. No, I want to be able to close it online.

There are several layers of security that prevent anyone but me from logging into my account. Why should I not be able to close it online, and receive a written reply from them (or at least electronic reply) that I have done so?

[Statistical]

42. A cerified letter from the address on record?

Not much risk there.

[ColbertWatcher]

44. What a mess. Good for you! n/t