Why should power be able to be inherited?

[ck4829]

"Inherited economic power is as inconsistent with the ideals of this generation as inherited political power was inconsistent with the ideals of the generation which established our government."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Money is power.

Why should power be able to be inherited? And how could anyone say that inheriting power is part of the American Dream?

Don't let our politicians repeal the Estate Tax.

[Oregone]

1. Hardship is more often inherited

We simply do not have a system to establish a true meritocracy (would involve a massive "death" tax). We are unwilling to do even develop one

[dbonds]

2. The Power runs things, they will not let it go without a fight.

And right now even those that we think are fighting for us are really still in the pocket of power.

[anonymous171]

3. Exactly. Estate Tax should be 90% or higher.

I tell my conservative friends that "only socialists support free wealth. In Capitalism, wealth must be earned. Otherwise you are just mooching off of your family."

[Hannah Bell]

25. unfortunately, things being what they are, the top 1% has many ways to hide their money,

& they'd love it for the middle to upper middle to get socked for 90%.

[anonymous171]

26. Whoops. I wasn't advocating for a 90% tax for all inheritance

Just for anything over 2 million. Right now it is at 45% for anything above 2 mill. Sorry about that, I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

[Hannah Bell]

30. 2 million is a mid-sized regional business.

[mmonk]

35. I disagree that Estate money is "free wealth". Some people worked hard

to acquire what they have and they would like for their children to have it. I don't mind an inheritance tax that say starts at $5 million or something like like that. But I think parents should be able to pass on the fruits of their labor to their children, particularly if they have children with disabilities and such.

[anonymous171]

36. Of course.

I agree with you that the exclusion limit should be raised. 10 million would be a good starting place.

[mmonk]

37. Wow. That's higher than what I mention to people.

My whole thing is to not be punitive on the middle class by never adjusting the numbers over time.

[noamnety]

4. What an odd quote, considering the source

He certainly made the most of his inherited economic and political power.

[AllentownJake]

8. Roosevelt is considered to be a traitor by the elites to this day

He was one of them that turned against his own people in favor of the unwashed masses.

He's the opposite of Nixon and Reagan, and an exception to the rule.

[noamnety]

18. I grew up near the roosevelt estate

he was a traitor perhaps - up until the point where it affected his own privilege, then - not so much.

[AllentownJake]

19. Nobody is perfect

He actually did it to save them. They were too stupid to realize that as well. Roosevelt was very aware of what was happening in Europe at the time in response to the economic crisis.

[Greyhound]

21. Exactly, we were going socialist in a big way, The banks, Wall Street, and insurance companies

were done, nobody trusted them and were sure as hell not going to put their money in those hands again.

Huey Long was talking about his square deal and the unions were serious about taking back their product.

FDR saved the parasite class and the institutions that they use to feed off the working people.

[Hannah Bell]

29. the roosevelts made their money in the 1700s off slave-trade sugar

& banking.  they've kept making money ever since.  

there were delano partners in brown brothers harriman.


fdr = jp morgan's 3rd cousin:

                       
               joseph lyman + mary sheldon
                 |                       |
lynde lord + mary lyman       joseph lyman + anne robbins 
 |                                       |
mary lord + john pierpont     cath lyman + warren delano 
|                                        |
juliet pierpont + js morgan   sara delano + james roosevelt
|                                        |
jp morgan  (1837)             franklin delano roosevelt (1882)
|
jp morgan jr (1867)



fdr & morgan were also cousins of the forbes' (as in john
forbes kerry):

catherine lyman + warren delano
               |
deborah perry delano + 1) william howell forbes
                       2) paul revere forbes


deborah delano = franklin's mom's sister.

wm howell forbes & paul revere forbes = brothers.  

they were the first cousins of john forbes kerry's great
grandfather, francis blackwell forbes.


The world of the banksters is small.



ps: the sheldon in their common ancestry links to bush
ancestors as well.

pss:  the delanos & the forbes were both opium traders. 
as were some of the roosevelts.  & they all made money in
various ways from the slave trade.

[Hannah Bell]

33. Frederick Baldwin adams (presidential adams, Yale/S&B)

married Sara Delano's (FDR's mom) brother's daughter,
who'd be his cousin.

Notice his co-director on the board of atlantic fruit & sugar?
Initials GHW. That's Prescott Bush's father-in-law.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,846962,00.html

[bemildred]

5. Word. nt

[leftofthedial]

6. because that's how rich people want it.

and they are richer, more powerful, better and more important than the rest of us.

[Mike 03]

7. But how should money be different than other things we work hard for and want to give to

someone we love?

Just to take a crazy example, what if I wrote a novel and want to pass on the residual rights to that book to my niece to go to her education?

If it is a personal thing, can't that be my choice?

Why should that be up to you?

[AllentownJake]

10. There is a line

My mother and Father leaving me the house which is worth around $150,000 will sure help me economically. Give me a slight leg up. But certainly won't make me very powerful

If my Mother and Father are handing me 150 million dollars...well, I have a little more power.

[Mike 03]

11. Yes, perhaps. But the point is, How do you want to use that money?

What if you want to use it for good?

I would much rather trust YOU with that money than the IRS.

[AllentownJake]

15. What if I want to use it in investing in sweatshops in China?

Because I'm a spoiled brat and a greedy son of a bitch that never learned empathy because my life was cloistered?

[Mike 03]

17. LOL, I give up. I can't evaluate the moral and ethical decisions of other people right now.

I'm too busy trying to just decide what I should do as a human being now to help out.

Life is exhausting.

[Greyhound]

22. The rights to that work are not perpetual. In time your novel passes into the public domain,

not so with money and property unless there is some sort of recycling system such as a heavy inheritance tax.

[Mike 03]

9. A better question, really, is why should power be based on wealth in the first place?

Somewhere along the line we decided rich people had more power than we do, and that was our first mistake.

[LostInAnomie]

12. People need material to survive. Those with it get what they want.

A better question would be: Why do we continue to maintain this system where the means of material production are in the hands of so few? It's obviously detrimental, but we continue to let it survive.

[Mike 03]

14. True, you make valid points. But this system of excessive consumption can't last much

longer.

I don't know why we attempt to maintain the habits you are illuminating, but you are right, we are trying. Could it be old, bad habits?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. Can't last much longer??? It already ended.

[yodoobo]

38. Power is not based on wealth

Wealth is power.

Money is essentially a token system for power.

In a very practical sense, power and wealth can be exchanged quite freely.

Think of it as E=MC2 on a social level (where E is money and M is power)

For a bad example, think of Bushes, where the converted riches into power.

For a benign example, think of Bill Clinton, who was quite poor before he was President, converted his power after leaving office to wealth via speaking engagements, books etc. In this theory, Bill Clintons descendants could many generations from now use that wealth to obtain office again (and power)

[seabeyond]

13. why should grandma bertie be able to give me her pearl necklace?

you are suggesting a family member that has earned the cash should not be able to give that cash to whom they please when they die?

i dont agree

[AllentownJake]

16. If the Pearl Necklace allows you to become President

Despite the fact you were a C student and failed at every business interest you have ever been involved in, than that is one dangerous Pearl Necklace.

[seabeyond]

20. surely you jest. the american people allowed bush to become president.

and regardless of money allows a person anything, it is all relative. one persons 200k's house is anothers pearly necklace, or dog spot.

we are not a nation that decides at what point it is no longer ours, even in death.

i think this whole conversation is ... yes, .... insane

[Greyhound]

23. Grandma's necklace has a cash value, if it exceeds $3.5M you will have to pay the tax in

order to keep it. What is the problem with that?

To go further, let's say the only thing Bertie had to give you was that $4M necklace and you are poor, then you would have to sell it in order to pay the tax and that would suck, but you still get $2.6M to ease your sorrow.

Edit: math error.

[seabeyond]

34. i an not opposed to the inheritance tax

but it is the suggestion that nothing should eb allowed to be passed on. there is a plenty heavy tax on the money passed on. but to suggest it isnt right to give any of that money to me is wrong

[Greyhound]

39. I must have missed that part. The inheritance tax doesn't even start until $3.5M

for individuals, $7M for couples. So, a 90% tax on a $10M estate left to a couple would mean that couple gets to keep $7.3M dollars.

Numbers for the single inheritor with the same estate is $4.65M, still not going to be in any bread lines. Also bear in mind that this is at 90%, not the measly 35% they are crying about.

I still don't see the problem.

[RB TexLa]

24. How much power inherited is too much?

$10,000,000?
$1,000,000?
$500,000?
$50,000?
$10,000?
$5,000?
$500?
$10?



Why would inheriting a car dealership be wrong and inheriting a house not wrong?

I think taxing either is morally wrong.

[anonymous171]

28. What an interesting sense of morality you have. nt

[Skittles]

40. troll morality

[leftstreet]

31. I hope I'm in your will n/t

[1]

32. oh, you mean like the kennedy's...