I don't get the mourning for someone you've never met

[Ex Lurker]

I get the adulation, though I didn't share it. I get the fact that celebrity status trumps any and every character flaw in the minds of hardcore fans. I get a general feeling of sympathy toward the family, undeserving of it though I think they are. But I've read things like "I can't stop crying," "bawled like a baby," ad infinitum, and that I don't get. You didn't know this person. If you tried to meet this person, you wouldn't get past security. All you know about him is what you've seen in the media. I do not get the emotional reaction. Leaving aside Michael Jackson, this is not the first time I've seen this, and I'm sure it won't be the last. And I don't understand it at all.

[Solomon]

1. Wonder how many people who didn't know John Kennedy, wept

when he died?

And don't try to raise a straw man about Jackson not being equal to Kennedy. The premise of your post is about why someone would mourn somebody they didn't know.

[Ex Lurker]

5. I was two years old when JFK died, so I can't address that

I probably would have felt bad for the country, and felt sympathy for wife and kids. I don't think I would have deluded myself into thinking I was part of his extended family.

[CatWoman]

17. I was 8 years old when JFK was killed

we were going to a homecoming parade, and noticed that all the band members, etc., were all crying.

My dad came back to the car and told us what happened.

We all cried, too.

[EFerrari]

73. I was about the same age, and my mom had to stop nursing my brother

because her milk went dry, the poor dear. We all cried our eyes out and just sat around stunned for a week.

[seabeyond]

14. deaths like that, sudden, or some of the stories we hear on news or internet about a life

lost. they can really pull me. (not kennedy, again i was too young too). there have been stories of loss of life, or people on du telling of story that makes me sad. but it doesn't hang on. it isn't a loss of a part of my life. they aren't a part of my life. there is the empathy, and that last for a moment, but....

this is different. and i think that is more what is being talked about. it isn't one isn't able to feel another's pain, but for it to be such a part of a persons life, a phenomenon

[anneboleyn]

107. I think Presidents are a different case as they are a symbol of our nation

Hence we relate to them in a different way than an ordinary celebrity.

[Horse with no Name]

121. I think the difference would be the personal impact

Not to minimize MJ, however, his music will live on and in fact, is doing better now than it has in a long time.
The loss of someone like JFK though, impacted the entire society--the Vietnam War--the lives lost there and so much more and stopped an entire generation in it's tracks by the loss of his agenda.

[Hissyspit]

2. There is a vast spectrum of human emotional response.

It's perfectly possible to not mourn for someone you've known for decades.

[lamp_shade]

3. I'd guess there are a whole lot of things about life that you "don't get". It's a shame and it's

your problem.

[Fumesucker]

Whereas you "get" everything there is to "get" about life, eh? n/t

[lamp_shade]

72. Pretty much. : ) n/t

[Javaman]

81. okay, in that case, what is the meaning of life?

and don't say, "to eat as much ice cream as humanily possible", because I tried that and it didn't work!

[lamp_shade]

84. Sorry... Edy's Grand with chunks of Butterfinger candy bar. That's the meaning of life. n/t

[Javaman]

87. oooooo, I think you got me. :)

got to get a bigger belt!

[tabatha]

4. So, you have to actually know someone to

feel grief at tragedy.

Good lord, how uncompassionate.

[Ex Lurker]

7. of course not

but if I don't know someone pretty well, I'm not going to spend two weeks wallowing in it.

[seabeyond]

11. you arent being mean, or disrespectful. you are expressing an opinion. the tone of posters

to your op is an example of my thinking last couple days. i know many are bothered by people that are crude, blunt, hateful toward jackson. but that is certainly not the feel of your post. yet.... listen to some of the responses. they take it so personally. and attack in that manner. and it is due to a person that is idolized to such an extent.

i have stayed out of the posts for 11 of the 13 days, but just got into them the last two days. i am really finding this all interesting. not good. not bad. but interesting. has been making me think about different stuff

[tabatha]

44. I was never a fan of Michael Jackson.

But I cannot understand that others can pass judgment on others' grief.

That in essence was the meaning and statement of my post.

[seabeyond]

49. they/i am not passing judgment of grief.

it is an inability to understand it and exploring that question. you experience. others do not. then the why of it

thinking further, i would also suggest maybe it is something to do with the personality of people. being a pragmatic person i handle emotion differently. or the simple fact of not connecting to a person we do not know that doesn't allow the mourning you speak of. to explore different possibilities is not a judgment

[tabatha]

40. I don't think anyone has been wallowing it.

And how can you put a time limit on grief.

[treestar]

95. But you must spend a lot of time feeling grief

that is an extreme emotion one should not feel every day. Yet by the standard you have stated, you would. Grieve for Farrah Fawcett, Michael Jackson, that football player who was shot - you would spend too much time grieving.

Thus people reserve it for their actual friends and family.

[seabeyond]

6. i dont get the adulation, celebrity staus, hero worship...

i was talking to a woman today i dont know well, and she was asking if i watched. i told her, i did not know him, not a loss, not in my life. i can have empathy and that is about it.

but when people say things like, ... i lost part of my childhood cause mj died. i dont get. i listened to him and osmonds then. and watched the cartoons. grew up with them. enjoyed them fine. and i lost nothing that late june jackson died.

when my mom died, i lost a part of my life. not jackson

[Plucketeer]

12. I'm with you....

When celebs start sending out fan appreciation checks, I'll be GLUED to their every performance! Same way with wasting time watching a bunch of grossly overpaid jocks try to outdo one another. <YAWN> Root for MY team??? whoopee.:boring:

[seabeyond]

i dont place their value any greater than anyone else. i also dont place someone with any

higher than those with out.

i really dont value man in that kind of scale or hierarchy and maybe that has something to do with. i can be with a person that has nothing, but they shine and i see them as such a kick ass person, they beat out all else. nah... not really, cause it seems i always fine the special in all... (lucky i guess) a uniqueness in all that i am able to value all.... and one doesnt win out.

but it jsut has never worked for me either, thinking anyone more special

i can value, appreciate their talent.

[tabatha]

45. Music has a lot of meaning to other people's lives.

Sometimes, when I hear a song I have not heard for a long time, memories of that time (both good and bad) come flooding back. So,in that respect music is part of people's lives.

[seabeyond]

53. this i can understand. readily. and i too experience that

music is a huge part of my life, and the language and stories in vibrates within. all it gives. there are even aprticular artists that allow that feeling to sore. i can appreciate the talent. value the talent.

i watched a video of jackson on stage doing a concert with moonwalk, and he was incredibly awesome. there is no making him less for all he was.

[alarimer]

90. I love music and I appreciate musicians.

But when Willie Nelson dies I am not going to cry over it, even though I love Willie Nelson's music. I have no idea if he is a good guy or a bad guy, but I know he smokes pot and has cheated on his taxes. But he paid for that last thing; the IRS took away his stuff.

The thing is to separate the music from the music-makers, most of whom are deeply flawed individuals. You can celebrate someone's contributions to their field without canonizing the individual and whitewashing their actions, which is what I saw happening a lot this week.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

98. You've made some mistakes about Willie -

he didn't "cheat on his taxes" - the people who handled his money screwed with it and didn't pay his taxes. What do you think? Willie handles his own finances? Come on.

And, the IRS didn't "(take) away his stuff." They placed liens on his real estate and on whatever assets he had, but he went to work and paid off the debt, thereby retaining his assets.

It's good to be accurate.................

[hwmnbn]

8. I cried when John Lennon was killed...

I can't explain it. I felt a kinship with him thru his music and his consciousness. And I'm not a particularly sentimental guy but that's what happened.

[NYCGirl]

50. Boy, so did I. I felt as if a part of my youth had died, and I suddenly felt a lot

older.

I guess many feel the same way about Jackson.

[noiretextatique]

9. I get a general feeling of sympathy toward the family, undeserving of it though I think they are

that undeserving family lost a son, a brother and a father. what a cruel and stupid thing to say.

[Ex Lurker]

18. that family used him as a meal ticket

in life and continues to in death. I feel sorry for the kids. The grownups, meh.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ex Lurker]

23. you're entitled to your opinion n/t

[Mike K]

52. Petty and vicious?

How do you feel about the families of the seven American troopers killed in Afghanistan yesterday -- even though nobody knows their names? And how about the 4,300+ who have died in Iraq -- while BushCo wouldn't even allow their homecoming coffins to be seen? I wonder how many tears you and all the other hysterical Michael Jackson mourners shed over these dead troopers? And how about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, including women and children, none of whom ever did a thing to us but were burned and blown to bits by American bombs? Did anyone shed a tear for those wrongfully killed human beings?

What we've seen recently are a few 30 second mentions of the seven dead GIs and weeks of irrationally redundant coverage of the drug-induced death of a mediocre entertainer whose most substantive claim to fame was his utterly bizarre persona and who is best described as a neurotic sideshow freak who quite possibly was a pedophile.

No wonder this country is sliding into hell.

[Catshrink]

63. I waited 48 hours+ to hear if my nephew was one of those killed.

I have little patience for those still engaging in their celebrity worship and obsession.

on edit: Thankfully, he wasn't one of those killed but it was way too close (and I'm not allowed to say more than that, but trust me, it was close) for this auntie!

[Swamp Rat]

65. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[SammyWinstonJack]

119. +1

:applause:

[MISSDem]

122. So we cannot grieve for both; all of those

who have died a tragic death.

[liberal N proud]

10. Media generated idolatry

[Echo In Light]

13. The corporate society's video subconscious involves us feeling 'connected' w/the affluent

There are artists and musicians of every stripe who die, but if they weren't a part of that fabricated, cultural affectation, than it doesn't matter to the majority who are culturally directed toward what to like/dislike. It's part of the illusory sense of keeping the mass feeling connected to something even though they're socially isolated from one another in many ways that otherwise may result in organization against suppressing powers.

[Hannah Bell]

15. +1

[ipaint]

28. Exactly

[tabatha]

46. What a lot of nonsense.

You are implying that others can dictate who will be idolized and who not.

I can assure you that corporate media would not have chosen Michael Jackson for that role.

[Critters2]

51. They most certainly did. The round the clock coverage

was the media's idea. They built this circus.

[Solomon]

80. The media did it is the biggest hogwash I've heard.

The dead guy's records are selling off the hook. That's not media driven. That's real people buying the albums, not because the media is telling them to do it.

Lots of right-wing tripe being thrown around, like the indignation because nobody knows who the dying troops are. That has absolutely nothing to do with Jackson.

What gets me is most of the people crying about this said not a peep when George Bush made our troops completely anonymous, wouldn't even show their caskets. Not a peep. But now we have all this righteous indignation because people are mourning Jackson.

I think it's sad that people are making the families of troops angry because they don't like it that others are mourning Jackson. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

[Critters2]

85. It is all media driven. It just is. nt

[tabatha]

83. They only did that because the market was there

and it was good for business.

Bu they never caused the market to be there in the first place.

[Critters2]

86. Please. The man hasn't done anything worth paying attention to

in 20 years. This is 100% media hype.

[SammyWinstonJack]

120. When you're right, you're right.

:-)

[Echo In Light]

67. To be sure, many prefer to see their preferences as free from external influence

Although in a media saturated, corporate ("values") culture, most of our thoughts, views, perceptions, choices, etc are in place because they exist elsewhere first.

Oddly enough this likewise dovetails on why some are so adamantly against the concept of criminal collusion/conspiracy; they don't like to feel that they're susceptible to influences that aren't perceived as a 'normal' aspect of their daily round of life. It's not that they can't believe in the evil humans are routinely capable of, but rather, are against the idea that anyone could put one over on them personally. It's part of that "rugged individualism" illusion people prefer to cast themselves in, even though they exist within this mass marketed jive that yields precious few free thinkers. As soon as it's suggested that they're perhaps not entirely making up their own minds, so to say, some often become quite hostile.

[conspirator]

58. A+ for your answer nt

[daleo]

113. Interesting explanation

I think that's part of it, though no doubt there are also genuine personal elements to this phenomenon.

[mother earth]

16. Have you never admired someone without knowing them on a

personal level? I can think of many historical figures & present day ones that I admire for various reasons. One can also grieve the loss of a public figure, even if it's only a remembrance of how that person's contribution affected you, little ways or big ways. Who does not recall where they were or what they were doing when JFK or Bobby died?

I also think one can remember the good, while also having an awareness of the "bad". Nobody is perfect.

Sometimes losing a person on the collective level, is a lesson on the collective level as well...feeling sadness for those who were left behind is connecting to what makes us human, empathy for another's pain is part of the human condition. I'd be more worried if we showed no feeling or compassion, that would be worst.

[Ex Lurker]

20. perhaps so

I still don't get the deep feelings of grief that some people have, though.

[Echo In Light]

31. Have you ever witnessed someone adopt the emotional resonance of those they're surrounded by?

It's very common w/children at funerals of people they weren't close with. They sense what those around them are experiencing, and their connection w/those grieving acts as the trigger, and suddenly they're crying because that's the prevailing vibe.

My point is that this society is so mass marketed/mass media driven and saturated, whereby many take their behavioral cues from what they (consciously/unconsciously) perceive as cultural directives and inducements, that the illusion and affectation can take on the appearance of a "reality" free from external influences and manipulation, even if there isn't, so to speak, a direct 'plot' to 'make' people 'like' something or someone.

[Ex Lurker]

55. I think you're on to something there n/t

[Swamp Rat]

68. This one can see!!

:yoiks:

[Echo In Light]

70. I do recall that line! haha

[mother earth]

117. I understand what you are proposing as an explanation,

however, I do not agree that you can attribute that to what we are all currently experiencing. We surely may be fed through the media, but it is certainly everyone's perogative to throw out what is coming in if it doesn't resonate & I've no doubt we all practice that. If what you are saying is true, than everyone who's ever been exposed to any form of religion should be followers simply by projection & through indoctrination which is not the case.

Everything can be construed as an illusion. I think of this current fascination as collective lessons...and we are all experiencing it and applying our own unique interpretation. Echo, you are seeing this as something others may not, but it surely does not mean you are wrong. It is only your interpretation. We are all on unique paths, with unique lessons to be learned.

Bringing this back to MJ, on a personal level, my sadness at his passing, is more akin to the passing of time and what was. I think back upon songs, and instantly I am reminded of one of my young children who would mimic the Billie Jean dance moves after seeing it only one or two times...and instantly I am reminded of what will never be again. There's an incredible mix of the "whys" we are experiencing as a "loss"...take what you will and leave the rest. Add to that the level at which some achieve, and you have the loss of a true icon...whether you feel MJ's significance warranted role of icon or not, he was one, or this phenomenal attention would not be paid to him. Technology being what it is, brings it to us 24/7, much to the dismay of many.

[Bryn]

19. Like it or not

We're all connected. :)

[Mz Pip]

22. I do.

I have read articles about the deaths of people I have not known and been terribly saddened by them. These are usually people who die violently, through no fault of their own, often young people or children. I mourn for the families who have to live with these tragedies for the rest of their lives.

Sometimes the death of an unknown person resonates in ways that surprise me. Often they involved people who are much like me or my family and these senseless deaths hit home. I don't know the people but I do identify with them.

I don't have that reaction to celebrity deaths, though I cried a lot when JFK was assassinated. But that was more than just about losing one man; it was a death that shattered a nation.

Mz Pip

[seabeyond]

27. that is what i expressed in another post. exactly

this i understand. the other, not so much.

[Mz Pip]

36. I don't think I've ever

been caught up in the lives of any celebrity. They aren't like me and I can't really relate to them on any personal level. MJ's death was sad because he was still young and it probably will turn out that his lifestyle contributed to it to some degree.

I loved the Beatles and was truly stunned when Lennon was killed but I didn't go into a funk over it. A guy I worked with years ago had a daughter who was so distraught after the death of John Lennon she moved to India and joined some religious cloister. I know that's an extreme example but things like that do happen and I don't understand it either.

[seabeyond]

54. yup. n/t

[MISSDem]

38. You make me tell something that I don't usually tell.

I look at the obits and sometimes I am just drawn to some particular ones and sometimes they are so heart wrenching that I cry. These are perfect strangers to me but I am moved. I like the feeling.

[Mz Pip]

41. I think we all need a good cry sometimes

and whatever triggers that cry, that release may be something that is not related to one's own life. Sometimes I think we work too hard at keeping it together with personal issues that we use something that is removed from our own lives as a catharsis. It's safer in some ways.

[BlooInBloo]

24. Because it's all about you.

[Fire1]

32. Apparently. n/t

[mullard12ax7]

25. There's a mix of fans, idolators and people who don't care

The fans and non-fans are completely understandable but the idolators are really scary, like religious nuts. They are brainwashed and cult-like followers. The media can easily manipulate the idolators as the media created half of them in our propaganda-led culture. Propaganda is the leading force in America, both corporate and government. They create any reality they want to and have millions of duped followers.

With that said, it also has to be said that MJ was one of the greatest dancers in entertainment and he did confront racism head-on, although it can be questioned what his real impact was in that area.

[Critters2]

47. How did he confront racism head-on?

By having his nose rebuilt to do away with its ethnic look? By whitening his skin? Gimme a break.

[Catherine Vincent]

26. Apparently people like you will never understand. nt

[stray cat]

29. John F Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy?

[HarvardMed]

30. I only somewhat agree with you

I understand why people get sad and all that for someone they care about whether they know that person well or not - afterall he was one of the world's most famous celebrities. However, what I don't understand is how some people go over board like for instance selling all their belongings in order to make a roadtrip from Boston to Los Angeles just to attend the memorial service of a person they never met before.

I also don't understand how someone can claim that "their life is ruined and they don't know what to do anymore". I mean being sad is one thing, crying is also one thing, but reaching a point where they just don't know what to do anymore because a celebrity they liked has passed away is incomprehensible.

[Mike K]

89. Excessive emotional reaction to the death of a total stranger

is uncommon but it does happen -- and in every case it is plainly irrational. I suspect it to be an example of suicidal depression seeking a reason to act out.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

104. Welcome to DU,

and your pithy analysis is about the best I've seen of this whole two-week grief explosion.

There's a collective something going on, and I would love to know what is behind it.

Again, welcome.....................

[petersjo02]

33. What a stupid thing to say.

People can and do certainly form attachments with people they've never met. It's one thing to say you can't form such attachments, but to say you don't understand how others can/do strikes me as evidence of some sort of personality disorder on your part. If humans are unable to form bonds of concern for others, including our planet's animal population, we'd have never survived over the eons. Your comment/question was ignorant and thoughtless. Judge not.....

[BlooInBloo]

34. They know. They just want to be a dick. Not much you can do about that.

[butterfly77]

76. Exactly, they just want to say something negative about..

michael jackson..

[treestar]

99. No, the OP was way more general than that

MJ is just the last example.

[treestar]

96. Personality disorder? If you've never met someone, you can't have a

bond with them. Nor they with you.

Unless just buying a record is a bond.

That would seem to indicate the personality disorder, not the other way round.

[CrispyQ]

35. I cried when I heard that Isaac Asimov died.

There I was in my cube at work when my husband called & casually told me the news. At the time, I was surprised at my reaction, but looking back, not so much.

Asimov's Foundation Series was the first science fiction I read & by the time of his death a couple of decades later, I had read all of his science fiction catalog, including his old robot stories. The one fictional character I would most like to meet is Giskard, an Asimov character. Asimov's stories were a big part of my life & I derived many, many hours of enjoyment from them. Losing him was like losing a friend.

I totally understand how these people feel!

[MISSDem]

37. It gives us a sense of community that we can share in our grief.

You may not talk to some other person, ever, but in this instance you can communicate on the one sense of loss. If you don't feel anything over this, then you are dead inside.

[Critters2]

48. Dead inside?! Seriously? You don't see that as a bit over the top?

This man hasn't produced any notable music since Thriller. He's been irrelevant at best, a freak show at worst. Feeling nothing at his passing just means a person has more important things going on in their own lives.

You, otoh, have been completely manipulated by the media.

[MISSDem]

91. au contraire, I don't watch TV or do much else with the "media"

but read the newspaper, so I am not really "manipulated by the media". I just feel for my fellow human beings.

[Critters2]

105. Newspaper are media, and have been as involved in hyping

this ridiculous story as any other medium.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. Tell me why you think the family does not deserve what all families

get in mourning, sympathy from those who know about their loss? What do you base your judgement upon? I assume it is not just what you read in the papers. And when you say 'the family, who do you mean? It is a large group of people, and with people, no two are alike.
Say what you mean, even though it is just crap you are making up. About people you have never met. But lots of people have, you know. Think about it.

[bigwillq]

42. Can't you go back to being a lurker?

Instead of a poster. :shrug: :eyes:

[DarthDem]

71. Suggestion Endorsed!

And as a bonus, s/he "wouldn't get" how we would all feel about it, since we've never met.

[Bethany Rockafella]

43. Huh?

"I get a general feeling of sympathy toward the family, undeserving of it though I think they are."

So you don't think one member of that family deserves sympathy for the passing of a loved one? His Mom? Rebie? Tito? Jackie? Marlon? Randy? Jermaine? Janet? LaToya?

You have a cold heart!

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Worse. A cold imagination.

For it is just the imaginings of the OP that are written. He or she does not know one of those people, and the conclusions are delusions.

[pipi_k]

56. People might not have known the person but

in many cases, they probably grew up either listening to the person's music or watching movies or whatever.

So in that respect, they FEEL like they "knew" the person.

another point, and one that hits me with more impact the older I get...

It's another loss of our past. Or the connection to our past.


The more people I've lost who have a connection to my past, the harder it's gotten. It's like a part of me is gone forever. In a way, it is, I suppose...

When MJ died, I felt the loss of yet another part of myself at 16...34...etc. The times when he was popular.


Sometimes it appears that people are mourning for someone else when they're really mourning for a part of themselves.

[Ex Lurker]

60. okay, I can understand that

I think in many cases it's over the top and gets into mass hysteria, but I understand the underlying emotion.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

103. You would have appreciated

being in Europe when Elvis died, and the US went into a state of hysterical mourning.

Kids in France and Italy - where I was at the time - wore pins that said "Elvis is dead - and I'm glad." It was their response to the inordinate breast-thumping and collective madness that struck when Elvis croaked.

Now, with the Internet(s) tubes, and the failure of people to be able to separate the singer from the song, perhaps because we are so bereft of heroes today, because people need to believe they "belong" to a community that is virtual, at best, I wonder how well such pins wold sell.

But, watching this phenomenon, and watching people talk about "crying hysterically" and things like that, I seriously have to wonder what is lacking in their lives that this sort of thing fills them up, what would cause them to confuse the product with the marketing, and how these people - having suffered such an enormous loss - will get on with their lives.

Are there MJ support groups forming, I wonder, to help people? That would make sense, and maybe everyone could then make sense of this event..............................

[treestar]

97. That's not gone. You were still 16 listening to that music

How long the singer lived doesn't change that.

In fact I've liked music of people who were dead already the first time I heard their music.

[gauguin57]

59. Interesting piece in the Burlington (NJ) County Times about people feeling relationship w/celebs

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/26/2009/july/08/we-just-cant-stop-loving-them.html

It's about how psychologists view:

"...one-sided, pseudo-interpersonal relationships that occur between celebrities and the rest of us. It's an increasingly common social phenomenon tied with the growth in popularity of television and media, where we see celebrities more often than family and friends. ...

Hero transference is one way that Temple University psychology professor Frank Farley explains it.

Americans are short on contemporary public heroes these days, said Farley, who has studied hero worship. The most popular ones are long dead. The others tend to be more generic, like police, firefighters and soldiers.

"Celebrities tend to fill in that gap. Celebrity has substituted for traditional heroism for people we admire and look up to," Farley said. "We elevate them to 'near hero' status in our lives and ascribe to them profound effects on us." Also consider a profound social change, what Farley calls the demise of stoicism, where Americans are far less inhibited about outward emotional expressions. "Letting one's inner life out," he said. ...

[NatBurner]

61. and thank god u don't, or else what would u have to complain about?

[LanternWaste]

62. I think it's more than possible to...

I think it's more than possible to invest emotional content in a thing, or a person, or a concept that we've had no immediate contact with. We invest so much value into wholly imaginary things that exist no where but our own imaginations (e.g., borders, philosophies, religion, economics, politics, etc) to the point in which we fight international conflicts over them; so it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to focus that same concern, regardless of the substantial reduction of it, into a person.

Or to put it on the most reductive plane possible, I've cried uncontrollably after having seen a dog's carcass in the road. Some people get that, others don't I imagine... :shrug:

[Ex Lurker]

64. oh, I get the affection for animals

maybe not to that extent, but I tend to avoid animal movies because I know how they usually turn out.

[LanternWaste]

77. Then merely transpose those same affectations onto a human...

"I get the affection for animals"

Then merely transpose those same affectations onto a human rather than an animal, and bingo! You've got the answer to your query.

[MISSDem]

123. Just as one can cry on reading about yet another case of

horrendous child abuse or another case of dog fighting. I do it when I read these articles in the newspaper. We grieve for the pain and hurt of ourselves and our fellow beings.

[Mike K]

66. Don't get it?

It's an unusually extreme example of the kind of mass hysteria the human species is widely susceptible to. Some other examples are sports event riots, groupie hysterics at rock concerts and the organized orgies of high-level, horn-blowing foolishness called political "conventions."

The path to understanding it begins with understanding Man's affinity with dogs. What is it humans have in common with dogs that accounts for the mutual fondness? The answer is pack mentality. Most humans harbor a profound and compelling need to belong to a pack, which may be referred to as a tribe or a mob. It affords them a sense belonging to a (numerically) powerful group. They instinctually run in the same direction as the pack and they howl in the same voice as the pack. They don't know why, nor is why important. What is important to them is they are part of it. They belong to something powerful.

[seabeyond]

69. this is the feel

maybe that has something to do with it. and a personality that does not jive with mass, collective may tend to not experience this.

interesting. thanks.

[JANdad]

115. Another term that I would apply to this phenomenon is

SHEEPLE

[RedCappedBandit]

74. I don't either

[CraftyGal]

75. You know I still remember what I was doing when Lady Diana died in Paris...

I think I cried for weeks afterward, not because I "knew" her but because she was so young. I grieved alongside her children as no child should lose a mother at that age. I was a loss of someone so young. Lady Diana was a "celebrity" much like Michael Jackson was. She had been maligned in the press just like Michael, that her charitable work was often unseen because of the issues in her marriage and then the divorce.

Michael was human just like the rest of us, just it was more public. He was maligned and ridiculed, yes sometimes it was his own making. Including some of the ridiculous stories in the Enquirer. He tried to join in because he felt he couldn't beat it. Yes, I cried during the service yesterday. I mourned a part of my childhood as I grew up with his music and the Jackson 5. I have heard that Farrah's death was overshadowed and maybe it was to a degree, although we knew she might lose her battle with cancer. It was a tough week losing Ed McMahon (sp?) than Farrah, finally Michael. A loss is a loss and it is so profound for people.

If Obama passed on in an untimely fashion, wouldn't you mourn the loss of one of the greatest presidents in this century? I know I would and I am not an American, I am Canadian.

CraftyGal

[seabeyond]

79. i would certainly feel empathy to the loss of life (obama)

as i did when jackson died. no, no way.... i felt when i was told. and then after the feel of that loss, a sympathy to those that loved him, ....

that would be it. what is done is done. and it is not a personal loss.

[sandyj999]

78. It's a way for some to fill their life when they don't have much else going on.

When it comes to celebrities some people are voyeuristic and hang on everything they do. Maybe these people don't have a lot going on in their lives and never will so they live through the celebrity. I'm not saying it's right but it is what it is.

[SoCalDem]

82. "Fan" is a derivative of

"fanatic".. pretty much says it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person)

In a few cases, individual fans may become so fascinated with the objects of their infatuation that they become obsessive. These fans engage in behaviors that are considered extreme or abnormal.<1> This includes idolatry or other forms of worship, such as creating a personal shrine dedicated to the idol at one's home, and can sometimes extend to the point of the fans becoming stalkers. In sports, some fans take their enthusiasm for the team to the point of attacking fans of the opposing team (e.g., football hooliganism).

snip

[alarimer]

88. I never put anyone on a pedestal, including celebrities and politicians.

Maybe we should especially avoid putting celebrities and politicians on a pedestal. Because when they do something wrong or disappoint you in some way (as they invariably do), the disappointment is that much greater. I never thought Obama was all that, in fact all the adulation frightened me because I KNEW he would let progressives down- it was inevitable. And of course he has been a disappointment in that he has continued many of Bush's policies.

But when you adore someone beyond reason, it is hard to face reality that they might be in reality a very bad person. At the very least they are imperfect. So celebrity-worship is always unhealthy. These people are no better and sometimes much worse than people you actually know. And of course they would have nothing to do with you, even if somehow you managed to meet them.

[Ex Lurker]

106. I'm a huge Bruce Springsteen fan

his music was my coming of age music, and I still enjoy it. If he died, I'd be a little sad momentarily. I'd probably watch a retrospective of his life on one of the music channels. But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go into a protracted mourning state.

[ezgoingrl]

92. I think there are several reasons.

It's part empathy. I see 3 young kids without their dad now. I have a couple of kiddos and I know that those three kids are in for hell learning to live without their dad, not to mention the fact that their just about the most famous kids on the planet. Also, suddenly there are sisters and brothers without their sibling, parents without their child etc. That's tragic and my heart goes out to all of them. Also, I see Michael Jackson as a bit of a tragic character. He felt robbed of his childhood and after some really rocky times it seemed that he was starting to get his life back on track, but he just didn't get the chance to see it through and that makes me sad.

Michael Jackson was a big part of my coming of age experience. I had a massive crush on the guy for a long time. Heck, when I was a Freshman in high school I did a demonstration speech over how to Moonwalk. His music is part of some of my most precious memories. I remember being forced to watch the Motown Anniversary special. I was 13 at the time and not a happy camper. But all was forgiven when my family and I watched Michael Jackson perform Billie Jean. WOW! I couldn't take my eyes off of the television and I am pretty sure I didn't even breathe. There were slumber parties and dances that wouldn't have been the same without the music. Watching Thriller for the first time was a big event at my house, my family and practically every friend I had sat in my living room and experienced it together. These moments in time are very important to me. So, when Michael Jackson died, it was like a big part of my youth was put away for good.I was morning my own personal losses as well.

I remember the day that Elvis died, we found my mom sitting in the middle of the living room floor, playing Elvis records and bawling like a baby. I've teased her for this since 1977, on June 25, I went to her and told her that I understood why Elvis' death impacted her so heavily.

Sure it's not like when my Gran died when I struggled to make sense of my world again. But it did knock the wind out of my sails for a time. Yesterday, as I watched his memorial service, I said goodbye to "my" Michael Jackson.

I don't think that there is any shame in having fond feelings for someone that I've never met or for my breath catching when I see his family in pain. Geez, we've all been there at one time or another and warm fuzzies sent out to the universe on Michael Jackson and his family's behalf can't do any harm. As a mother, a sister, an aunt, a cousin and a friend, I'd like to think that those warm fuzzies ease the pain even if it's just a little.

[jobycom]

93. If they are a celebrity, you've met them.

Your body physiologically can't tell the difference between someone you know in person, and someone you know through television or other media.

Here's a recent study suggesting part of that.
http://media.www.cm-life.com/media/storage/paper906/news/2009/04/22/Lifeline/Study.Shows.Viewers.Develop.Relationship.With.Tv.Characters-3720241.shtml

[seabeyond]

101. lol lol. nu uh. that is funny. you dont meet them, you see what they present.

a lot of us are clever enough to be able to distinguish the difference. maybe that is the difference. maybe the people that are so committed to mourning actually feel like the know the person. and those of us that dont, are well aware we do not.

[jobycom]

108. Nothing to do with being clever, only with being stifled.

Again, it's a physiological response, it's not a matter of being clever. Your emotions are the results of subtle chemical reactions within your body--that's how chocolate mimics love, cocaine mimics winning, etc. You don't control those chemical reactions--if you feel you know someone, your body does not know the difference between knowing them in real life or knowing them through a medium.

So if you don't bond with any celebrity or fictional character, that's a choice you make to stifle your natural emotions towards someone, or else it's a sign that you don't experience normal emotions. That's probably not fatal, but it's nothing to be proud of, either.

As for "seeing what the present," that's all you see of most people.

[seabeyond]

112. maybe it is rather you use your brain... or emotion. some people are emotion based

again, in that there is not a good or bad, it is. there are advantages and disadvantages. and same for those that process life thru the brain. good and bad. well... i never really see good and bad, just different.

but no

i dont think that it is a given that people process in this manner.

[treestar]

94. I hear you

Maybe there are a few people where it would make me sad, but not entertainers. And I can't imagine crying about it, where I did not personally know them. (though I guess one never knows).

[greenbriar]

100. I cry at sad movies ....I also cry when I see something sad on the news

guess that makes me weak

[RagAss]

102. I don't know dude, why do people still cry on Good Friday ??

[anneboleyn]

109. I don't get it either. I think it is often people who have not suffered the loss of a close person

and there is a projection or denial of death (per Becker's book) going on with the over-identification with the celebrity.

[anneboleyn]

110. READ BECKER'S DENIAL OF DEATH -- HE TALKS ABOUT THIS ISSUE -- CELEBRITIES AND MOURNING

[Critters2]

111. Becker is brilliant. Both Becker and Girard can shed light

on these strange behaviors.

[Geek_Girl]

114. I'm not a big fan of really any celebrity

But I grew up with MJ's music and video's and when he died it was sad. It's an erra gone by kind of sadness. His music and talent had such a huge impact on the 80's culture, which was when I was a wild teen.

I think the sadness people are feeling are not so much about the person but the impact his immense talent had on our lives.

[Hepburn]

116. Were you around when JFK was assassinated?

I never met the man...but I cried for days and mourned for a very long time over his death.

Geeeeeez....what is your problem?

[Romulox]

118. There's an innate human need to participate in shared experiences.

It's what helps us form bonds with one another.