Have the Democrats just Checkmated the Executive branch?

[burythehatchet]

Could it be that for once the Dems were two moves ahead? It would certainly be a refreshing change of pace if they were.

Am I reading too much into this or was the "Impeachment is off the table" a most brilliant ploy?

Let's look at the two scenarios:

Scenario 1

Democrats: We are united in seeking impeachment of the President and Vice President for all their numerous crimes. 60% of applaud, 40% become irate and the media circus basically ignores all the underlying issues that justify impeachment and focus solely on the impeachment itself. The true gravity of the crimes goes essentially unreported by the corporate media.

Scenario 2

Democrats: "Impeachment is off the table". Now lets investigate everything AND while we're at it, we go on record against the current policy. So what are the Bushies options - Change course and basically give in to every Democratic principle and demand by pulling out of Iraq. Or, continue of their current course, in which case we are ON THE RECORD as being against it. Simultaneously, the investigations reveal that all the decisions of the Pres and OVP are based on lies. (I know, we already know that, but the vast majority don't. ) The Republics are essentially forced to employ their strategy while the facts completely contradict the intellectual basis of their decisions. Either way they look like the idiots and criminals they are.

For the perfect example, look at the NIE for Iraq - they WONT PRODUCE A REPORT although they have one, because it completely undermines their strategy. But it WILL be exposed.

I look forward to the year 2007.

[me b zola]

1. Maybe. I sure would like to believe so.

Ok, here's my confession. I'm kicking every thoughtful post that is not about "the house".

[burythehatchet]

3. 47 deletions today

thank you. :toast:

[me b zola]

8. Mmmm, libations

...is worth another kick :evilgrin:

:toast:

[frogcycle]

26. excellent summation

I've tried several times unsuccessfully to make that point. You did it well.

Now in hindsight a good analogy comes to mind - the "martyr syndrome". Impeach him and, even if successful, you make a martyr of him and increase the resentment. Keep him right there twisting in the wind, and chip away at the remaining vestiges of respect/credibility with the holdouts. Get those polls into single digits!

The one caveat is that they have to be well enough contained that you control the damage. that means first and foremost a viable exit strategy from Iraq. If the standoff continues, and the numbers go on like they are, all bets are off. Even so, impeachment could take longer to be effective than the massive investigations strategy. Much like our situation in Iraq, there is no good solution to the bush problem, just an assortment of inadequate ones.

[bleever]

37. Nicely said.

A very belated Welcome to DU, frogcycle.

[CatWoman]

51. well,

I'm kicking it because it's a thoughtful post ABOUT the "House" :)

K&R

:kick:

[Rosemary2205]

2. It would be nice to have a crystal ball wouldn't it?

I'd like to see an impeachment at some point, and sooner rather than later, but I'll be happy if all the Dems do is keep both houses, win the WH in 08 and use the time they have now, plus the time then to roll back the deficits, the tax cuts, and do a little something to strengthen the Constitution again. I personally care more about doing what it takes to make sure the R's can't get a majority in the federal government for decades. They are not worthy of the public trust and are useful only in making sure the Democrats don't end up full of corruption again.

Just MHO.

[walldude]

4. I'd like to think so but when have you ever known the Dems

to be 2 steps ahead? Who was it that said "I belong to no organized party, I'm a Democrat."

[monmouth]

16. I believe it was Will Rogers.......

[librechik]

5. yup--scenario 2 is the better one indeed--once the truth is out

Americans will demand justice. And the stupid media will make a mint on all the scandals--trouble is, they don't like Republican scandals like they did back in the 70s. The ownership changed. The mainstream corporate media could seriously put a big fat wet turd in our punchbowl the way they are nowadays.They are hand in glove with the fascist enemies. Our only hope is the alternative news sources. They helped save our ass in VietNam, they could do it again.

[burythehatchet]

7. Remember, it usually takes a proper fuse.

Cronkite was the fuse in Vietname, in terms of the media. I can esily see someone rising up and lighting the fuse. The situation is different in that there is no universally acknowledged and respected personality, but it will happen somehow.

[librechik]

9. We need Russert to put down the koolaid and man up.

He's got to be pissed about what Cathie Martin said at the Libby trial. Makes him look like the tired little toady he is!

Now is the time, Timmeh--did you get a subpoena too?

[burythehatchet]

15. Question for tomorrow is

Watch him for the entertainment value, or ignore him like usual.

[Kahuna]

30. Justice, yes! But I prefer to see * get his justice after his term expires..

That way he will be dealt with as a private citizen and won't have the priviledges/respect/considertations afforded a sitting president. No way will the Dems remove him or Cheney before their term expires. They do not want McCain to run as an incumbent president. If either Cheney or bush were removed, no doubt but that they would see to it that McCain would become vice president or president.

[MadMaddie]

6. I go with scenario 2-The investigations and the Libby trial

will expose the true crimes of the * cabal.

Cheney and Rove will be called to testify and that is where it will get interesting..because the are cornered and I believe they will purjur themselves.

With Cheney and Rove removed, the "would be King" is vulnerable to impeachment. There will be no one to run interference for him anymore..

January 2007 has given the year a good start and it's only going to get better.

[burythehatchet]

14. Impeachment in this political age is going to have to be

a grass roots process. When its top down, a la Clinton, it's a disaster for the prosecutors, but as the majority of the public has already judged, the requiste public support is awaiting in the wings.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

29. I want more than impeachment...

Clinton got impeached and he's still walking the streets.

Bush deserves more punishment than just impeachment. We should turn both Bush and Cheney over to Iraqis to put them on trial for war crimes.

[madokie]

10. what I'm reading here sure goes down good with my evening meal

I agree

some humans ain't human john prine

[yurbud]

11. best explanation of this approach yet.

[Bitwit1234]

12. The problem is ....MSM does not report the real news

the only way the dems are going to get the word out is to go thru all the investigation process. I moved to the midwest four years ago. I know what went on in DC because that area does tell the news. But you don't hear anything out here. The newspapers and local station don't report like WRC and WJZ used to....So you are correct when you say if the investigations bring out all the crap on bush and company the country will more and more say IMPEACHMENT IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO.

[stevietheman]

13. Machiavelli is indeed alive and well

It is indeed looking like the Democrats at some point decided on a "back the rat into a corner" strategy, and it's working like a charm.

[StrictlyRockers]

17. 2007 is going to rock! Make sure you stock up on popcorn...

After we expose all of their crimes, then I hope we can bury the hatchet.

SR

[burythehatchet]

18. As long as we bury it deep.

[StrictlyRockers]

40. muahahaha

:popcorn:

[knight_of_the_star]

19. We need the public first

By keeping impeachment "off the table" we can do two things.

First, Bush is now a captive punching bag for the next two years. Investigations, Scooter, the war, the economy, the list goes on, and all the while the Dems will be holding his feet to the fire digging up more and more dead bodies while he dances in the pan.

Second, we can paint the GOP with the same brush as we can on Bush. We have an opportunity to destroy the neo-cons and the religious reich as a viable political force for the next generation thanks to their arrogance and over-reaching.

If we move to impeachment, it must be with MASSIVE public support and it has to look like the Dems were forced into doing it, that way the GOP can't try to derail the process as a partisan witch hunt.

[burythehatchet]

21. complete agreement

also see post 14

[calimary]

31. This whole thread is a delight!

It took me awhile to realize that Madame Speaker was playing poker.

That does NOT mean, however, that I'm NOT going to call her office anymore and urge that IMPEACHMENT be put back on the table. I am. But I am also more content to sit tight for a little while longer - while Ze Case is built against bushco. I wonder if Pelosi went into the poker game knowing she had the Patrick Fitzgerald ace up her sleeve. Or if she was betting on all the investigations that were going to result because the Dems got back in power. Whatever - a VERY nice place to be in.

I bet bush is hitting the bottle HARD again. Wonder when THAT little tidbit is going to come out, mainstream. :evilgrin:

[burythehatchet]

32. How would Madame Speaker NOT know about Libby-gate?

Waxman coming up to bat next

Conyers on deck.

[calimary]

34. Well, then, she's not only a good poker player, she's pretty damned

good at chess, also.

All this seems to be leading where I've been hoping it would.

:toast:

[caligirl]

36. i'm happy to see others share my view as well. Last November I was

trying to get thispoint across here, don't know that anyone wanted to hear it then. expose the crimes and the people will rise up and demand * and * and * get their punishment.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

47. Absolutely

We will be hearing of more states than NM considering article of impeachment in their houses. We the People will be demanding it.

[conscious evolution]

20. 2007 -year of the popcorn

I can't wait to see the investigation juggernaut roll over bushco.

[burythehatchet]

22. might need to invest in one fo those Christmas time

multi flavor, reuseable as a trash can size popcorn.

[omega minimo]

23. .

[burythehatchet]

24. gracias!

[EstimatedProphet]

25. Yes, that's exactly it

Some of us tried to tell people here, but we were drowned out.

Pelosi simply could not go into this saying she was going to start an impeachment trial. THERE WEREN'T ANY INVESTIGATIONS. Without a demonstrated case, every single thing that we know Bush has done is just an accusation. She couldn't start off saying she wanted to impeach - that would be instant political suicide, Repubs would claim that it was just so that she could get to the presidency, Pelosi looks stupid, we then don't manage to get an impeachment, and for what? Just so that some people can be satisfied that we tried to do it as fast as possible?

It's almost like the old joke: the detective is chasing a villain, who gets into a cab. The detective runs up to the next cab and says "Follow that car!" The cab then drives away before the detective can get in.

[Skidmore]

27. It takes two sets of voices to carry out something like this.

One to call loudly for justice and the other to call for reason. Together they create a dynamic in which the action may occur. If noone had demanded peace and justice over these past few years, then we would be at a point where we could have this discussion.

[EstimatedProphet]

33. That's true

However, there was a contingent of people who immediately started out calling Pelosi a Repub operative, which is ridiculous.

IMO it's one thing to insist on justice (Cindy Sheehan I believe did this when she went to Pelosi's office on opening day) and another entirely to claim that Pelosi is trying to work with Bush to subvert America's will because she said that impeachment is off the table.

[burythehatchet]

35. Conyers has laid it bare for anyone who'll look

[w4rma]

28. I think the current tactics of the Democratic leadership are very good. (nt)

[Timbuk3]

38. Just so you know

I agree with your post, but I recommended it because you called them "republics".

[burythehatchet]

39. HAH!

It has been second nature now. Going on three weeks.

[bleever]

41. "Off the table" and "Not on my desk".

Impeachment, and Iraq war plans.

Things change.

Nice post!

[burythehatchet]

42. Thank you. But as Caligirl said, its not a new idea, but what

struck me is that is was a successful attempt at strategery by the Dem leadership.

[caligirl]

45. thanks, and as we said before Reid knows Chess(he outmaneuvered Frist and

that triggered a ton of discussion here about how people had found Senator Reid to be a highly skilled infighter.(although Frist's appointment(hand picked, I think) by * was another of *'s poor decisions)
,
give'm hell Harry. So far no mention of the nuclear option by our side, just skilled democratic leadership.

[mmonk]

43. mmmmm checkmated?

Maybe Fitz will but I'm not exactly sure about the Congress yet. So far, they haven't checkmated a 10 year old chess novice much less this administration. We'll see.

[flying rabbit]

44. most rational thread of the evening n/t

[burythehatchet]

46. AM kick

[Tatiana]

48. #2 is a winner. I don't think we should "misunderestimate" Pelosi.

If the House decides to impeach, it will do so because the public demanded it. Pelosi can claim that not only have high crimes and misdemeanors come to light, but impeachment is "the will of the people," unlike when the Republics tried to impeach Clinton. It won't be seen as a partisan decision.

And just being realistic, do we HONESTLY think that John Conyers does not want to impeach Bush? I mean c'mon!

The second most senior member of the House, Michigan Democrat John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), was there as well, telling the crowd that: "George Bush has a habit of firing military leaders who tell him the Iraq war is failing," said Conyers, who then looked out at the crowd and shouted: "He can't fire you."

"He can't fire us," added the House Judiciary Committee chair, referencing the Congress that he said should block funding for Bush's plans to maintain his war. "The founders of our country gave our Congress the power of the purse because they envisioned a scenario exactly like we find ourselves in today. Not only is it in our power, it is our obligation to stop Bush."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070128/cm_thenation/1161056

[burythehatchet]

49. Especially true because she is next in seccession after VP

[Terre]

50. I'm late to the party here

I think your idea is on-track, but I do see a drawback. Pelosi should never have used the term "off the table", because even if investigations lead to an impeachment resolution, there will be a LOUD minority that will scream, stamp their feet, etc. and say "See!! They (Dems) lied!" and then we will have to deal with that - not that I mind.

It would have been much better if she had said something like "Impeachment is serious business, and is not on our agenda." That, at least, would have left the door open a crack.