Tweety ended the show by saying that hopefully Eddie Rendell can talk sense to WH on abortion...

[WI_DEM]

funding in any Govt run health care plan which might pass. He thinks it is a bad idea and may saba toge health care reform if it's included. He then indicated that Pope Rendell should enter the fray to save the WH from itself.

My view? Abortion is a legal medical procedure and should be included in any Health Care Reform bill which includes a government option.

Where do you stand on this issue?

On Edit: It may be that Tweety said "Bobby Casey" and not "Eddie Rendell". I may have misheard or misunderstood.

[mzmolly]

1. I stand where you do, but I'm not willing to scrap health care

to fund the procedure if that's what the alternative actually is.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Same - assuming the bill is otherwise a strong one....

EDIT: And I would be happy to get to work the very next day after passage, to get abortion, and women's heath stuff generally, included.

[mzmolly]

4. Absolutely agree!

:hi:

[hay rick]

7. Availability is more important than funding.

If the political choice comes down to government funding for abortions vs. providing insurance coverage for 10s of millions of the currently uninsured- that's an easy choice. Hopefully it doesn't come down to that.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

9. Forget it, there will be no bill passed. Just like 1993-94 all over again.

There will always be a convenient excuse for both sides to sit there and pat themselves on the back as to why they didn't budge.

Meanwhile, thousands will die and go broke while doing it.

[WI_DEM]

12. I don't believe that. I think we have a very good chance to pass it this time.

The expectations are even higher than 93-94 and if the Dems don't deliver on this I think it will be fatal for '10 and possibly '12.

[mzmolly]

11. Agreed. Hopefully it will not

come to that. But if it does, we need a plan b.

[madfloridian]

16. I never cease to be amazed here.

I would not have expected that comment from you.

[mzmolly]

25. What comment?

That I want health care for all? To refresh your memory I said I AGREED with the OP's statement which was:

My view? Abortion is a legal medical procedure and should be included in any Health Care Reform bill which includes a government option.

Where do you stand on this issue?

I did expect some people to try and twist my words, but I did not expect that from you Mad.

[madfloridian]

29. You won't see it from me again. Younger women can fight or not.

Because I don't think we can win the fight now.

I think several things are going to happen now that conservative Dems are in power. Abortion will be effectively banned, birth control access will be compromised, charter schools will emerge, public schools will die, Social Security and Medicare will be gradually privatized.

[defendandprotect]

37. Obviously, that's the global fascist agenda . . .

and this may be their last chance to pull it off?

We are not the only nation under this pressure -- while they have kept us from
universal health care, they've been attacking these programs and labor in other
nations as well. Starving health care programs -- and Sen. Arlen Specter is still
trying to cut another $1 Billion from Medicare -- is one way to create dissatisfaction
with good programs.

And they've been starving the public schools schools for decades --
In fact, they were hiding money for intelligence budgets/CIA in the school budgets!

Also, I don't think most people understand as well as you do that birth control is
every much a target for them as abortion.

Patriarchy and organized patriarchal religion are suicidal --
the world is rejecting patriarchal religion, but not fast enough --
Certainly, not fast enough to save humanity and the planet.

[mzmolly]

44. I think you're very wrong about

the values of most Democrats, young and old. Further, I think your projecting your misguided beliefs onto me and others.

[spag68]

3. Health care

So let me get this straight, you are willing to sacrifice womens rights so that you can get health care????

[Hepburn]

5. Whadda surprise.....

NOT.

[spag68]

8. OK Then My bone of contention is with Rendell

[WI_DEM]

6. Tweety is...not me.

I said I support funding abortion in any Health Care Reform Bill.

[mzmolly]

45. I have a friend who had breast cancer and no insurance.

Incidentally, she's also had an abortion. She's staunchly pro-choice, but she would not suggest that her position on one very important issue, prevent others from life saving treatment if it actually comes down to a choice between getting comprehensive health care reform, or not.

[ErinBerin84]

10. I thought Tweety said "Bobby Casey", not Rendell.

[WI_DEM]

14. You know you may be right on that.

[mitchtv]

34. Casey

[madfloridian]

13. Many DUers would think it is ok.

In my post about it, I was amazed at some I thought would stand up for women's rights.

They don't think it is important that women's rights be considered in the health care reform.

We can just give up our fight, because we have lost to the religious right already on the topic.

[Iris]

18. Means of Reproduction - a book that is a must read

http://www.meansofreproduction.com/

[madfloridian]

21. Michelle Goldberg is great.

They have been targeting women.

And we are letting them.

Shame on us.

[mzmolly]

26. If you have twisted the words of others like you have mine,

I take this post with a grain of salt.

[madfloridian]

30. You said it would be acceptable.

.

[mzmolly]

42. No I did NOT.

I said that not having health care pass is UNACCEPTABLE.

[theHandpuppet]

33. I'm afraid I interpreted your comment the same way as MadFloridian

If we are both twisting your words, then by all means clarify your position for us so there is no misunderstanding.

[mzmolly]

43. Then you need to read my original comment AGAIN.

The OP stated "My view? Abortion is a legal medical procedure and should be included in any Health Care Reform bill which includes a government option."

TO WHICH I REPLIED:

"I stand where you do, I went on to say ... "but I'm not willing to scrap health care to fund the procedure if that's what the alternative actually is."

I was clear in my agreement with the OP. I was also clear that we should not give so called conservatives an excuse to deny us health care as we can fund choice in other measures (for now) if need be. Again, my commentary was made in regard to a particular scenario.

Thankfully, others who have read my comments understood what I attempted to communicate.

[defendandprotect]

38. Eventually they'll wake up too late . . . when their wife or sister or daughter needs a medical

abortion. Or when they find out belatedly that one or more of them has had an
elective abortion.

I don't know the current expense of the pill, either -- but it certainly isn't
cheap for women paying for it.

[Ilsa]

15. It's reproductive healthcare. It should absolutely be included.

Abortion via mefipristone (by mouth, at the office) and then misoprostal (24-48 hours later) is safer than ever before. The rate of infection has dropped from 1 in 1,000 to .06 per 1,000. Some clinics provide antibiotics just in case.

Surgical abortion for pregnancies beyond 9 weeks should be a part of the package also. It's gynecological healthcare.

[immoderate]

39. Right. It's a medical procedure.

--imm

[madfloridian]

17. Let's just all get under the bus. Let's forgive Dems caving in with 60 votes.

I see the handwriting on the wall for women and gays and unions in this party now.

DU is a good indication that because our president has charisma, we will not stand up for these groups.

[theHandpuppet]

31. Just as I had feared and predicted last fall

And there is no greater disappointment than being proved right on this. The fact that so many on DU are willing to go along with this is tragic.

[defendandprotect]

40. There is a tendency to think that most of us on DU are well-informed and

open-minded . . .

However, very often here the center-right hides -- they do not open up about the
truth of their thoughts -- and it seems to be a handful here with strong religous
convictions -- strong enough to probably be anti-abortion but not admitting it.

I could be wrong.

I'd also guess that they're here not to be informed, not to have their information
expanded but in hopes of being an anti-abortion influence, though not doing that openly.

There's another element which is the DLC pack -- and why they are here and why the DLC
have control of the White House and the party is an amazing question.

The answer seems to be contributions/money.

[MadMaddie]

19. It is a medical issue and if they do this they make it a social issue

What I mean is that only people with big $$$$ will be able to pay for the medication or procedure while the poor have children they can't afford or are not ready for.

We need to push that the government should not get between a dr and his female patient.

[madfloridian]

20. Turning a medical decision into a religious one.

This forum is excusing almost everything now in the name of expediency.

[DURHAM D]

22. Will it pay for Viagra? nt

[pleah]

23. Johnathon Alter made a similar statement on Olbermann tonight.

Something like it would sink the bill. I say BULLSHIT!

[defendandprotect]

41. Agree . . . this is all based on fear and notice that it's working on DU-ers...!!!

What the right-wing tries to do is make abortion shameful and create FEAR around it --

Nothing new there . . . it's the same thing the Catholic Church has been doing for

most of their existence. They actually permitted abortion until the point of animation

into the 4th century -- that's usuall mid-5th month.

The Catholic Church has controlled normal human sexuality not only of their own members,

but of non-members as well, by gaining control over government and influencing its policies.

And SHAME and FEAR and IGNORANCE have always been the tools used.

[tabbycat31]

24. here's my proposal

if the government will fund boner pills like Viagra and therefore support men's reproductive choices, then they must fund contraceptives and abortion and support women's reproductive choices.

Don't want to fund abortions? Then don't count on a hardon using taxpayer dollars.

[DURHAM D]

28. Last I checked Medicare and Medicaid both pay for Viagra.

I don't know if this is still true.

And in prior years - private health providers paid for male hair transplants. Maybe they still do but I doubt it.

[KoKo]

32. Obama might cave because to get Health Reform the RR will Bomb this...yet it's been part of health

coverage before. Back in the late 60's a friend of mine had an abortion at Johns Hopkins and was covered under Blue Cross by her employer for it. The doctor didn't use "abortion" but I think used another procedure code term to get her coverage.

It's been covered for years by physicians who understood. I do worry that Obama's new "supervisory role" for a new Czar to decide what procedures are worthwhile and what are unnecessary costs might decide to limit womens health care. BUT...I don't believe his wife, Michelle, will stand down on this issue.

After all, a President who allows his lovely young daughter to wear a Peace Symbol is someone who was sending a signal to us that he hears!

So...I'm guarded...but still hopeful. We must keep the pressure up for rights to Women's Health, though because it's so easy for us to get thrown under the bus by the Media. Have you noticed the anti-female bias of the press recently. Asking their women anchors and reporters to wear more "enticing clothes" with "cleavage?"

And there are financial websites who have lots of folks mentioning this. CNBC/MSNBC/CNN/FAUX...have "THE BABES" according to gawkers.

Some might say this is the ultimate fulfillment of Women to be who they are, wear what they want and it's crass and Right Wing to mention it.

But, I remember a big ad agency guy from the 80's who said: "When my client is in trouble he always asks me to do the ad with the Women undressed." He said he "always knew what client was in trouble when they asked them to go for the "soft porn" to sell the product."

[Me.]

27. Is This The Carrot?

Give us everything else we want and we'll compromise on that? My own view is that it should be funded. Yet people, many of those I've heard say so being men, seem to forget it is legal. They keep acting as if it isn't.

[defendandprotect]

35. Abortion should be covered and birth control, of course . . .

Meanwhile, Rep. Henry Hyde did succeed over decades in keeping the government from
any funding of abortions for poor women, especially.

I think that tended immediately to make it look like there was something wrong with
abortion.

I would like to see the public's information on abortion be expanded so that there
is a better understand of the medical necessity for abortion -- and the right of women
not only to self-defense in regard to their own lives, even if the assault comes from
a fetus -- but of their right to make their own decisions in regard to abortion.

[defendandprotect]

36. This is the GOP's ultimate ROADBLOCK . . . and if you give in re aboriton . . .

you'll cave on about any thing else.

Look at the fear setting in!!!

What if your wife or your daughter had a difficult pregnancy and had to have a dangerous
late term abortion? Availability is the first factor, but without Dr. Tiller, I doubt
there are going to be many doctors providing free care????

[Ilsa]

48. Just to clarify something, as you said, availability is the first factor.

There weren't abortion doctors providing late term abortions even with payment in most states. Dr. Tiller wasn't providing the services pro bono in every case. Women were lucky to have access to the service at all. Women had to be referred from their OBs to Dr. Tiller.

You might have meant all of this, but someone may have interpreted your brief comment differently. :hi:

[scarletwoman]

46. If it comes down to women's reproductive freedom vs. health care "reform"

then fuck their "reform".

Seriously. I refuse to give any cover to any fucking cowardly Dem who wants to hold health care hostage to women's reproductive freedom.

They're telling women, "Give this up, or else!" There's only ONE answer to that: "GO TO HELL!"

Really, tell them to go to hell. They can take their fucking "reform" and shove it.

sw

[defendandprotect]

47. kick