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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:19 PM
Original message
Are you on a US terrorist watch list? Have you been to any peace marches?
Edited on Mon Apr-09-07 01:31 PM by babylonsister
:scared: :scared:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/04/another-enemy-of-people.html

Another Enemy of the People?

Mark Graber

I am posting the below with the permission of Professor Walter F. Murphy, emeritus of Princeton University. For those who do not know, Professor Murphy is easily the most distinguished scholar of public law in political science. His works on both constitutional theory and judicial behavior are classics in the field. Bluntly, legal scholarship that does not engage many themes in his book, briefly noted below, Constitutional Democracy, may be legal, but cannot be said to be scholarship. As interesting, for present purposes, readers of the book will discover that Murphy is hardly a conventional political or legal liberal. While he holds some opinions, most notably on welfare, similar to opinions held on the political left, he is a sharp critic of ROE V. WADE, and supported the Alito nomination. Apparently these credentials and others noted below are no longer sufficient to prevent one from becoming an enemy of the people.

"On 1 March 07, I was scheduled to fly on American Airlines to Newark, NJ, to attend an academic conference at Princeton University, designed to focus on my latest scholarly book, Constitutional Democracy, published by Johns Hopkins University Press this past Thanksgiving."

"When I tried to use the curb-side check in at the Sunport, I was denied a boarding pass because I was on the Terrorist Watch list. I was instructed to go inside and talk to a clerk. At this point, I should note that I am not only the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence (emeritus) but also a retired Marine colonel. I fought in the Korean War as a young lieutenant, was wounded, and decorated for heroism. I remained a professional soldier for more than five years and then accepted a commission as a reserve office, serving for an additional 19 years."

"I presented my credentials from the Marine Corps to a very polite clerk for American Airlines. One of the two people to whom I talked asked a question and offered a frightening comment: "Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that." I explained that I had not so marched but had, in September, 2006, given a lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the Web, highly critical of George Bush for his many violations of the Constitution. "That'll do it," the man said. "

"After carefully examining my credentials, the clerk asked if he could take them to TSA officials. I agreed. He returned about ten minutes later and said I could have a boarding pass, but added: "I must warn you, they=re going to ransack your luggage." On my return flight, I had no problem with obtaining a boarding pass, but my luggage was "lost." Airlines do lose a lot of luggage and this "loss" could have been a mere coincidence. In light of previous events, however, I'm a tad skeptical."

"I confess to having been furious that any American citizen would be singled out for governmental harassment because he or she criticized any elected official, Democrat or Republican. That harassment is, in and of itself, a flagrant violation not only of the First Amendment but also of our entire scheme of constitutional government. This effort to punish a critic states my lecture's argument far more eloquently and forcefully than I ever could. Further, that an administration headed by two men who had "had other priorities" than to risk their own lives when their turn to fight for their country came up, should brand as a threat to the United States a person who did not run away but stood up and fought for his country and was wounded in battle, goes beyond the outrageous. Although less lethal, it is of the same evil ilk as punishing Ambassador Joseph Wilson for criticizing Bush's false claims by "outing" his wife, Valerie Plaime, thereby putting at risk her life as well as the lives of many people with whom she had had contact as an agent of the CIA. ..."

"I have a personal stake here, but so do all Americans who take their political system seriously. Thus I hope you and your colleagues will take some positive action to bring the Administration's conduct to the attention of a far larger, and more influential, audience than I could hope to reach."
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maggiegault Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. American Airlines Needs To Be Confronted For That
For all of it, actually, but especially the bit about the peace marches.

There are several instances of authors who have criticized the * administration in print and have been "punished" by being placed on the No Fly list.

The bit about the luggage is a new stunt for these jokers to pull. Illegal search and seizure, or did the Patriot Act take care of that little detail, a person's right to their own stuff?
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Four minutes and this isn't on the Greatest page yet?
Thanks for posting. This is incredibly important.

If anybody needs to persuade a right-winger that this administration has gone too far, share this story with them.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Do you ever wonder if you will be put on a terrorist watch list
for attempting to find out whether or not you're on a terrorist watch list?
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maggiegault Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes, Absolutely.
This is not an administration that encourages anything that smacks of education or curiosity anyway.

I don't think that you can find that out, anyway, can you?

I worry about it, actually, because of my blog. I have had hits from Homeland Security and the FAA many times.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. No, you can't find out (ahead of time), but you can surely try.
Edited on Mon Apr-09-07 01:40 PM by BuyingThyme
And for posting to this thread, you are all suspect.
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maggiegault Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I Don't Know If That Makes Me Want To Laugh Or Cry.
:hippie:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I was going to ask if it was possible to find out
if you're on a list without being put on it.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Only after they make me sign a loyalty oath in order to be able
to sign a loyalty oath (with apologies to Joseph Heller :)
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. If only his last name were "bin Laden"
He'd get free air travel from the US government just like Osama's family did after 9/11.

:eyes:
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. I guess I am on a list somewhere...for the letters I have sent to bush...
Fortenberry and some others, I would not be surprised in the least.

I do not fear being on such a list, although I certainly think it is an outrageous act of cowardice and abuse of power to even have such a list w/o any way to ensure that the good people of this nation are left alone simply because there is no reason for them to be on such a list in the first place.

One of the great Rights of this nation has become compromised, and we must put an end to this. The Right to Assemble peacefully has been stomped into the ground and may well be buried in the very near future. The Right to privacy has been breached w/o any form of Judicial Review all because this little emperor decided this is a good idea.

Strange how we, the People who employ this turd, can't find out about his past, his miserable failure of a life, but he can order repression of others rights.

It will take a generation to undo what this Piece of Shit administration has accomplished in a mere 6 years...:grr:

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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. I agree with your post, and remember how * said he doesn't
want us to look at his personal stuff!!! What a arrogant and ignorant man.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Lots of people don't know that his TX DL was changed to ...
a whole bunch of zeros and a 1 after he became Governor.

They just went in and expunged his entire driving record, and issued a new license. I am willing to bet there are a LOT of people that wish they could get away w/something like that...:grr:
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. the last time I flew.....
I had to go through the ransack luggage - take off your shoes - everything short of strip searching and spreading the cheeks for an anal probe. Not once, not twice, not thrice, but four times since we had to change flights once each direction. Less than 10 people in each flight (out of 100 plus) got this "special" treatment. Which makes the probability of being randomly selected about 1 in 20. So, having it happen four times in a row is (1/20)^4 or .00000625. When I asked the airport workers why I was chosen yet again, they assured me that it was all done randomly. Of course, I was in the SDS while in college in the '60s and frequently write letters to the editor and am probably in somebody's files, so I think the random excuse is bullshit.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Everybody has to take off their shoes.
That's not person-specific. Neither is having your luggage fucked with, depending on where and how you're flying.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. not then - this was a few years ago
most of the passengers walked right through the detector and onto the plane.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I've had to take off my shoes every single time...
...ever since that asshat Richard Reid tried to blow up a plane with his shoe. The security areas at airports haven't smelled the same since.
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Heathen57 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. If I ever fly,
make sure I wear the stinkiest pair of old tennies I own. Give the rent-a-cops something to REALLY complain about. :puke: :puke: :puke:
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Me and the FBI
This was in the early 70's. I was stopped at a red light near the Washington Monument. There were two lanes of traffic stopped at this light. The light turned green and I started through. A woman coming from my left ran her red light and plowed into me sending my car into the car on my right. The men in the car I hit disappeared after the cops came. One week later I got a call at my job from an FBI agent "investigating" the accident. He told me that the car that I was pushed into was full of FBI agents and that they were required to file an "incident report" . The "incident report" then led to a full fledged investigation of ME...not the woman who ran the red light. The agent on the phone said to me "we understand from your neighbors that you have a baby and that you work full time and put him in daycare....." I was only a little chilled by the question, the phone call and the "investigation". So I guess I'm on somebody's list.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. every other federal agency is a political tool
Why should we expect homeland and the TSA to be any different?

The goal is not to protect America from terrorists, the goal is to be a pain in the ass to anyone who is not a right wing war lover.


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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. this story is also posted
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. I am on the no fly list. - no really
I found out when my mother was sick last year and I wanted to fly to her on short notice. I have no idea why Delta sold me a ticket when they knew they weren't going to let me on a plane.

My congressman, David Scott, got the information for me and yes it really is ME on the no fly list, not a name like mine but they refused to give him any reason why I was on the list. I am not a naturalized citizen. Have never had a passport, have never been outside of this country. Have never been arrested for anything, not even a speeding ticket. Scott's office is working to get me off the list but so far no luck.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I have basically been boycotting any non-emergency air travel
since word of these no-fly lists started circulating. I think it's high time for a broad boycott of civil aviation and hospitality industry commence by all progressives and their supporters. The only language these nut-jobs understand is the almighty dollar, so when their customer base is reduced to the 29% who currently support BFEE, they'll stop such tom-foolery.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I agree -- people should boycott airlines. We no longer fly. nt
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. people who need to fly for business are so screwed
If you have a job that requires frequent air travel, being put on the no-fly list is basically a tcket to the unemployment office

I'd also like to note that choosing not to fly on vacation travel basically means you will never see any countries outside of the US, Canada, or Mexico. I suspect that BushCo would be very happy if Americans remained ignorant of how the rest of the world lives.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Wow. I'd be SO ANGRY! What if you wanted to go outside the country?
So you're basically a prisoner IN your town.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. Did Delta refund your money?
This has got to stop.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. All but $30 was credited back to my card EVENTUALLY.
Delta claims "I" should have known I was on the no fly list before I bought the ticket so I am required to pay their cancellation fee.

Took FOUR MONTHS to get the credit to my card.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Thanks for this info! n/t
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. I spoke with my Mother about this just a couple days ago.
Considering the fact I was on a bullhorn shouting down Cheney "in my name" (shouting I am ____ and I am NEVER going to shut up), I told her I figured I had a marked file with the NSA or FBI or 'shadow gubernet' or one of those politically-hand-tied entities.

Her response: "Don't worry about it. BUT, if you're ever stopped or fingered, raise hell from coast-to-coast,...and we will help you!" *LOL*
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. Ummm....
Edited on Mon Apr-09-07 03:53 PM by Sammy Pepys
"Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that."

I have a real hard time believing that's actual policy. I've both flown and picked up people who have flown various airlines (American included) to peace marches since 9/11. I've even had conversations with ticket staff about it.

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Heathen57 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. I probably am on the list
since I was at the peace rallies where the local PD and the FBI were taking pictures.

I never fly, always try and drive, but it pisses me off to no end that our government is doing this kind of thing to those who don't agree with them. The ol' "Yer fer us ur yer again' us" strikes again.

Damn Bushit and all his asshole buddies to the worst hell they believe in.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. K&R.nt
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R...and I know how he feels...I needed to visit the US embassy
in Tallinn Estonia...and my visit was declined because the Boy-King was in Estonia at the time.

I was told to come back after the pResident had left the country.

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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. Who is the "we"?
"We ban a lot of people from flying because of that."

Aren't the airline clerks just handed a list?
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. This is what America is coming down too??
I'm glad I have decided to give up flying..
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
31. this is why I'm getting my driver's license
i havent been posting here at DU as much as I had in the past, simply because I'm in the process of taking sme driving lessons :bounce: By the end of May/early June, I plan on buying my very first car, a 2007 nissan Sentra :-) With all the trouble I see people going through with flying, Im going to save my flying to when I have no other choice and when I decide to fly overseas again. The sorry ass airline "service" is bad enough, and now we ave this no fly list nonsense too :argh:
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MayorCandidate08 Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
34. The GOP is the reason I am running....
They take our liberties and hurt our children. I wonder how it feels knowing 200 million people hate you.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
35. "That'll do it"? That'll do it? You sorry mother fuckers!
How DARE they! Somebody, EVERYBODY, needs to sue the fuck out of these assholes!
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
36. K&R
How many more of these sort of stories will we have to hear before the shit hits the fan?


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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
38. This is why I raised hell about that photographer at the DC march
who was taking photos of the people in front of various groups holding banners for their group. I was called "rude" on this board for doing so. To those who think it was...THIS is why I'm seriously disturbed about that kind of thing. Our government is spying on us and I don't like it. Wait til you get your ass on a terrorist watch list and see how "rude" you get.
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. I'll never fly again, but I'm damn ready to march
Let me know when the revolution starts and i'll put those marching boots on!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. .
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
44. He is a friend of my dad's
I heard today before he left for a meeting today my 77 year old republican dad
(never voted for W) wrote pissed off letters to his Senators.

The man won bronze star and they put him on a "no fly list."
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. I keep expecting to be but am not, as of last month anyways.
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