Living in a Police State: The Gates Incident

[kpete]

Living in a Police State: The Gates Incident
Wed, 07/22/2009 - 15:27 — dlindorff

We have, as a nation, sunk to the level of a police state, when we grant our police the unfettered power to arrest honest, law-abiding citizens for simply stating their minds.
..........................

Prof. Gates, who was understandably outraged at the whole situation, properly told the sergeant that he wanted his name and his badge number, because he intended to file a complaint. Whether or not the officer had done anything wrong by that point is not the issue. It was Gates’ right as a citizen to file a complaint. The officer’s alleged refusal to provide his name and badge number was improper and, if Gates’ claim is correct, was a violation of the rules that are in force in every police department in the country.

But whatever the real story is regarding the showing of identification information by Gates and the officer, police misconduct in this incident went further. Gates reportedly got understandably angry and frustrated at the officer for refusing to provide him with this identifying information and/or for refusing to accept his own identification documents, and at that point the officer abused his power by arresting Gates and charging him with disorderly conduct.

...............

What is unusual is not that the officer arrested Gates for exercising his rights. That kind of thing happens all the time. What’s unusual is that this time the police levied their false charge against a man who is among the best known academics in the country, who knows his rights, and who has access to the best legal talent in the nation to make his case (his colleagues at the Harvard Law School).

Very little of the mainstream reporting I’ve seen on this event makes the crucial point that it is not illegal to tell a police officer that he is a jerk, or that he has done something wrong, or that you are going to file charges against him. And yet too many commentators, journalists and ordinary people seem to accept that if a citizen “mouths off” to a cop, or criticizes a cop, or threatens legal action against a cop, it’s okay for that cop to cuff the person and charge him with “disorderly conduct.” Worse yet, if a cop makes such a bogus arrest, and the person gets upset, he’s liable to get an added charge of “resisting arrest” or worse.

......................

more:
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/342

[imdjh]

1. I find "resisting (or obstructing) without violence" to be a curious charge

This isn't about Gates, as far as I am concerned he may well have been an asshole to the cop, but he's just another person busted for a charge I find to be contrary to a host of civil liberties.

I suppose that if you are belligerent to the point at which an officer cannot possibly do his job, then you are indeed guilty of a crime of obstruction. I think most of us have seen this kind of belligerent behavior on COPS and similar TV shows if not in real life. When some people get to screaming and won't let the cop get a word in edgewise, then it's hard to blame the cop for putting on the cuffs and putting them in the car. Cops well know the effect of screaming at someone, it disorients him, which is why officers engage in this practice and I also object to that especially when the disorientation results in a lack of compliance which is then used to charge or justify charges against a person.

The role of Gates' professional or economic status isn't that he's a black professor, it's that he's an educated man and long time activist. We have ample reason to believe that he was not engaging in a behavior which warranted arrest. We might be proven wrong and disappointed, but at this point he gets the benefit of the doubt.

[Demeter]

2. It Sounds Like Typical Boston Area Policing to Me

Not knowing how to disengage when in the midst of a procedural error, and being belligerent on top of it.

Is there anything the professor could have done to make the cop go away satisfied? I sincerely doubt it. And that so-called neighbor has a lot of nerve. Lawsuits, it's what's for dinner!

[Ex Lurker]

7. I wouldn't blame the neighbor without a lot more information

maybe she couldn't get a good look at him from her vantage point. Maybe she's 6 houses down from him-I wouldn't expect someone in an urban area to be on a first name basis with everyone on their street. Nor would I expect her to go up there and assess the situation on her own--that's a good way to get killed, if it actually was a burglar.

About the cop, that's another story. No problem with his initial response--with the information he had available, he had every reason to think a burglary was n progress. But once Prof Gates was identified as the homeowner, that should be the end of it, even if Gates was mad and started venting. Even if he got a little belligerent. A cop is paid to know how to de-escalate a situation where possible. Sadly, way too many don't know how or don't care. This may well be a racial thing, OTOH I'm a white guy and have had encounters with cops that could have gone downhill fast if I hadn't kept my wits about me.

[tblue37]

26. You make a key point--nowadays cops are clearly NOT being

trained to de-escalate situations. In fact, the cops are almost always the ones that escalate the situation, pushing the heat from 0 to 60 within seconds.

We see the videos all the time, within seconds, someone is getting tased in a situation where nothing was really even going on, at least not at first, but the cops get all up in someone's face until that person says something, then they tase the person--no matter who he or she is--cuff them and charge them with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

That's how a customer got tased in Best Buy for stepping out to take a phone call before finishing her credit card purchase (leaving the credit card on the counter ).

That is how little old ladies get tased at traffic stops.

That is how a man, going barely 5 miles over the speed limit, gets tased while on his way to Thankgsgiving dinner with his elderly mother in the car.

The cops start yelling and getting all aggressive with someone for no particularly good reason. Then they get pissed off if when they yell at someone, the person doesn't hang his or her head and meekly beg the cop's pardon, sir.

Sometimes I think the cops' behavior looks an awful lot like roid rage--but it could just as easily be garden variety a**hole rage.

[Cid_B]

27. "almost always" eh?

More statistics from the school of pulling it out of your ass? Oh wait, you're basing this on what makes the news? Oh wait, you're cherry picking even from that? :eyes:

[Bette Noir]

51. Let's not forget the May Day picnic in LA, I think it was two years ago.

Some brat threw a water bottle at a cop. Instead of going after the guy who threw the bottle, the cops moved, in battle formation, to break up the picnic by beating everyone within reach with their batons-- including TV reporters and cameramen who were covering the picnic for-- get this-- FOX. The settlements are going to cost the city millions-- people had bones broken, and they're lawyered up.

[truedelphi]

54. You last sentence addresses the concerns that I have abt this issue.

You say in your last sentence:

"This may well be a racial thing, OTOH I'm a white guy and have had encounters with cops that could have gone downhill fast if I hadn't kept my wits about me."

As someone who has worked with the mentally ill and developmentally disabled, I am appalled at what happened to Gates for the simple reason that people often CANNOT keep their wits about them. Several different medical conditions come to mind as I type this.

Often diabetics, when stressed, often cannot keep their wits about them. Similarly, people with iron loading diseases (one out of every two hundred Americans has it, usually undiagnosed) cannot handle stress and they have outbursts.

The one place in the whole world where we should not HAVE TO KEEP OUR WITS ABOUT US, is inside our homes.

The cops should be trained that people might not be considerate, polite or acting normally for medical reasons.

In Marin County, over the last year, A developmentally disabled adult was killed by police for acting out.

They kept pressing him to "shape up" and he didn't shape up.

The tragedy there is that usually when someone who has Alzheimer's or has developmental disabilities
starts acting up, if you leave them alone they will have an attitude adjustment within forty five minutes to an hour. if you harangue them from the get-go, and they will not calm down, they will escalate.

There was not a single reason in the world that this person needed to be harangued. True he had a knife, but if the police had evacuated the home, and had given the individual adequate space and time, he would have calmed down.

But when you press your authority and make demands, you escalate the situation and the result seems to be a dead body, in almost every case I read about in the media.

[pleah]

3. What I found disturbing, also, was the fact that his neighbor didn't even know who he was.

That is just sad.

[RufusTFirefly]

4. Yes. Even if she thought "they all look alike,"

you'd think the cane would've jogged her memory.

[pleah]

5. Exactly. n/t

[quiller4]

6. "Neighbor" is a loose term here. She did not live on the block. n/t

[Dappleganger]

67. Where did she live?

[hfojvt]

9. I think that's kinda typical

At least in my experience. Just the other day I was coming home and there was an attractive woman walking down the sidewalk and until she said 'hey neighbor' I did not recognize her. And yesterday I was talking to a woman who is staying with her, with her kids and she mentioned her name, and I noted 'hah, I did not know her name, but I know her dog's name.' A dog who has gotten out a couple of times and been caught by me after she gave up, but which bit me the last time too.

[hiphopnation]

42. please, keep this up!

you're pulling out ALL THE STOPS to defend the cops here...it's really quite rich

keep it coming!! there may be some PIZZA in it for you

rich, quite rich. :rofl:

[hfojvt]

56. yeah, actually I was talking about the person making the call

and I am not sure how you think it is against the rules. Only Republicans can't recognize their neighbors on sight? But I already bought two pizzas yesterday when I went to visit my brother (remember the crickets?)

mmmm, pizza.

[hfojvt]

8. considering that the charges were dropped

this article seems over-blown.

Nor do I think that Gates' outrage was 'understandable'. Not until after the arrest.

We don't have a police state because of one incident per day of police stupidity. That kind of thing is still pretty uncommon in most people lives, although maybe all of us can tell a story. I had one cop in Utah who got all huffy with me when I asked him shy he wanted to see ID when I was walking down the street at 2 AM. Far as I know, I am not required to carry ID just to walk down the street to a grocery store that is open 24 hours a day. Of course, he may have seen me puking a few blocks back, but I am not sure that is illegal either. (What really irked me about that was that most of my co-workers took the cops side when I told the story.) Then there was the time in Iowa when I got pulled over for a seatbelt ticket and somehow ended up cuffed while a bunch of cops searched my car for weapons. Still, there were no charges and I called the police station and demanded an apology because by the time I got home I was furious.

I still think that most law abiding citizens will do okay in America though.

[Karenina]

10. "Nor do I think that Gates' outrage was 'understandable'."

And therein lies your blind spot.

[noiretextatique]

14. it is not a blind spot

it is ignorance about the history of this oountry. or perhaps denial....or maybe both. same old shit, different day.

[Karenina]

28. Bingo!

:loveya:

[hiphopnation]

41. bingo

he's parrotting this crap in another thread too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6114566

methinks he's on the wrong site....

[Number23]

68. That one is as hopeless as a penny with a hole in it.

[Raineyb]

22. Not blind spot. Willful ignorance

Refusing to see isn't quite the same as mere blindness.

[EFerrari]

12. That we do live in some version of a police state can be observed

by how readily the citizenry is to normalize, to justify bad police behavior. It's already in the culture. We've learned how to live with it.

[Caliman73]

18. True

I am not anti-police, but I do notice a distinctly "us v. them" attitude. Sometimes when my B-I-L who is a police officer, have discussions, I have to interject that he is detaining people, or citizens, not perps. I have also noticed recently that several departments have taken phrases like "community", "protect", and "serve" or "service" off of their cruisers.

[EFerrari]

65. The us v. them thing mist be a onsequence of having to be

so vigilant and possibly also of trauma as part of your job. I don't think this country knows how to train or foster police officers very well for the long term.

[Caliman73]

78. It is somewhat understandable, but not acceptable.

I understand that police see some of the worst facets of human behavior, but the mix of authority and the tendency to generalize seem to have a very negative effect on how many police officers see non police. Fear and anger experienced long term can definitely have long term consequences on how someone functions and sees the world.

I think that there are adequate models of training and counseling for officers to work through the trauma of the job, but like the military, it seems that there is a fairly strong sentiment against the need for counseling. I mean, I work in social services and when our agency trains in diversity, or spotting abuse, or workplace harassment there is usually an outcry of "we know this crap" or "we don't need this". Imagine the sentiment among a male and testosterone heavy population when they want to train on sensitivity or talk about stress and your feelings about the job. It isn't a priority for the higher ups either until something happens, then they just seem to go through the motion. I think it is just the general attitude about education and mental health services that perpetuates the problems.

[noiretextatique]

19. but he's black...some people seem to think

it's ok for police to harass black people. they post stories about how their lily-white whatever got the same treatment. they don't understand that the police have been targeting blacks and latinos, in particular, forever. how is it that people don't know (or perhaps, accept) that glaring reality?

[Mythsaje]

24. A friend of mine, of mixed Polynesian blood,

gets an afro if he lets his hair grow too long. Some time back he apparently got pulled over not because he'd done anything, but because the cop got a look at his hair.

[hfojvt]

61. some people seem to think it's okay to make up things that others supposedly believe

If white people get the same treatment as blacks, then how is that targeting? If somebody thinks they only got pulled over because they are black or latino then a white person who gets pulled over under the same circumstances kinda belies the first assertion.

[noiretextatique]

73. you have to look a proportion

and history and reality. police have been the enforcers of racism. egregious examples are incidents like rosewood and tulsa, but there are many other exanples. i do believe poor white people get similiar treatment.

[EFerrari]

66. The first thing those people do is to claim it's not racism

because it happens to white people, too. That's what the freep Congressman said the other night on Tweety's show. He said that if McCain had been elected, the birth certificate would still be an issue. That is their Standard Self Serving Bullshit.

I don't know why this isn't clearer to some people and I certainly don't know how anyone with a brain can defend it except for the obvious reason. :shrug:

[hfojvt]

77. I don't know why it isn't clearer either

1. two guys are seen forcing open a door and the police are called
2. police ask for ID to find out if the people actually live there as they claim
3. police follow unknown person inside house while he/she is getting ID

seems to me that all of that is quite likely to happen no matter what the race of the two guys is. So to call it racism or some sort of huge incident when any of those things happen seem to make the person making the call look a little batty, that they are paranoid and cry racism whenever the wind blows.

And when the same people apparently cannot explain themselves except by calling racism or stupidity against others who don't see it their way. That becomes another strike against them.

Typically those first three are gonna happen and the person is gonna laugh and say 'okay, I know how that looked, but ..." and they show their ID, the cops leave and everybody lives happily ever after as the sheriff rides off into the sunset. 99.44% of the time that is what happens when the cops are called for somebody breaking into their own home (except for the cliche part, of course). We deviated from that storyline this time not because of a racist cop who immediately attacked when he saw a black guy in the house, but supposedly because the black guy immediately got paranoid when he saw a cop and stated yelling about racism at step two.

I never denied that the arrest was bogus and stupid and an outrage, but the call of racism at step 2 if it happened as reported is just as bogus.

[noiretextatique]

13. it's not one incident of police stupidity

it is a long history of police harassment. it's why the watts riots started. it's why a young wife was widowed on the monring after her honeymoon. it's why my friend ronnie settles died in the 80's...found hung and beaten in a cell. it's why a 5'4" woman was shot a zillion times by two police officers twice her size. how is it that you don't know this american history? if you knew that history, you would understand his outrage.

[kikiek]

25. Personally I expect better than "most law abiding citizens will do ok". Sounds like a police state

standard. I challenge anyone to not become enraged going through what Gates did. The police officer should have left once it was established he was the homeowner. He decided to use his position to show Gates who had the power. Little man with a badge. He doesn't belong in law enforcement.

[hfojvt]

57. just because it is not a perfect world with perfect people

Does not make it a police state.

[kikiek]

62. Officers who think they can arrest anybody at anytime without cause if they don't like em is.

[hfojvt]

70. not unless most officers are like that, and most people experience such arrests

Are we there yet?

[kikiek]

76. We are headed that way if we don't eliminate officers who do.

[baldguy]

30. You're missing the point of the exercise.

Gates' crime was that he's black. The punishment was that he got his home violated, he got handcuffed on his front porch, and he got his picture plastered all over the internet & newspapers across the country; displayed to his neighbors and that world as just another black criminal in custody of the police. That's the pattern: a Very Public Arrest followed by a private dropping of charges afterward.

The result is that the officer has the supremacy of police force over the community - especially the black community, Gates gets the incident recorded on his police record and he gets remembered as a black criminal (due to having all those police at his house and getting handcuffed & taken away).

The Cambridge mayor has asked for an accounting from the police - she hasn't got it yet. Gates has asked for an apology - that will never happen. And the police will never change the way they confront the citizenry - as enemies.

[hfojvt]

59. this feels like the Breakfast Club

you see things the way you want to see them. In the simplest terms, the most convenient definitions. Gates home was not 'violated'. Ooh, a cop walked into the kitchen. That becomes a harsh violation only if you hate or fear cops. I generally do neither. Neither should Gates.

Gates has gotten an apology from the Police department (I think) or from the city (which is above the police department). I am not sure how Gates can be recorded or remembered as a criminal when charges were dropped. That sounds like an exoneration to me.

[baldguy]

74. Having *anyone* in your home unwanted, without your permission is a violation by definition.

Again - you're missing the point.

You know that one house in your neighborhood that always has the police visiting? There may be only one car, but sometimes there's 3 or 5 or 10? Sometimes you see the guy that lives there yelling at the cops, sometimes you see him lead away in handcuffs. I'm sure you'd automatically think the guys involved in something hinkey - he's a criminal or there's something definitely problematic about him.

Do you think the fact that all the charges made against him have always been dropped change your mind? Would it matter if the guy is black?

[hfojvt]

75. always, or one time?

Just having a person walk into my home and then walk out does not sound like a huge violation Certainly no worse than getting cuffed, patted down and having your car searched, which I got over without making an international incident out of it (or trying to). Although I did demand, and get an apology, but the charges were not dropped until the officer failed to appear at the hearing.

[CannabisRex]

38. No Id required

There is no maw in force in the USA that demands we carry paper ID...UNLESS we are driving a motor vehicle. The Supreme Court has settled that debate already. the cops will LIE, like they always do, and say that you MUST present ID at any and all occasions, but it is a lie.

IF you are ' reasonably suspected' of committing a crime ( which means an ' articulable grounds 'must be there)then the cops can detain you and ask for your IDENTITY, which you must supply...but it does not mean you must give papers. Your verbal giving of your name and address is all that is required, and the cops cannot legally demand even that if you are not reasonably suspected.

My dad was a cop for 35 years, and I grew up in the police station watching cop do their thing. There is a VAST difference between the cops of yesteryear and now: Today they refuse to touch a ' suspect' until they are totally submitted, laying face down in the street or dirt and helpless.

Tazers are used to ' adjust attitudes' instead of as an alternative to deadly force...cops beat and abuse suspects that do not kowtow and show abject ' respect' to the exalted coppers, and we civilians are considered the enemy most of the time.In my day, a cop would tell you to turn around and they would cuff you; resist and they would overwhelm you, hopefully with the minimum amount of force needed. today however,the cops will not lay hands on you...will not get near you..lest THEY risk any injury whatsoever, no matter how unlikely.

So they make you spread eagle on the pavement until the fattest one can get to you and place his knee on your neck bone, a hair away from killing you, because the cops want NO RISK to themselves.

OFFICER safety is far more important to them than PUBLIC safety, and that is a fact. They will wait until the threat has passed, if at all possible, before taking any risk. Remember Columbine? SWAT team sits for a half hour while the kids rampage and murder...all because they were too scared to enter and face down a real gunman. Once the shooting stopped, then they enter and lament their inability to save anyone...but hey, all the cops came out Ok..and thats what counts, right? WRONG!!

[hiphopnation]

43. ...

"... because of one incident per day of police stupidity."

OMG, wow, just wow. Why am I wasting my time with you. You think the outrage here is over ONE INCIDENT. boggles the mind...

"That kind of thing is still pretty uncommon in most people lives..."

Yeah, they're called white people.



Please, keep this up! It's GREAT stuff....

[hfojvt]

60. presumably if America was a 'police state' it would be so for all races

To say that blacks or minorities face police oppression would be different from the statememnt that 'America is a police state'.

With the latter statement my own experience is relevant, no?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

71. The police officer stated he expected Gates

to have been grateful he was there. When Gates expressed a degree of aggravation rather than gratitude this became personal for the cop.
He's <the cop> is an egotistical bully.

[Hutzpa]

11. This is very simple

that officer lack common sense, being drunk on power can do that to you.

[Solomon]

15. This is the point that I was screaming to people when

the story first came out.

I am still non-plussed that there are people who think you can't speak your mind IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!!!

[noiretextatique]

17. not only in my home...on the street too

when i got stopped for DWB, i let the cops have it. i am under no obligation to act like a suspect or a criminal when i did nothing wrong.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

58. Aren't you the one who was driving with your lights off at night?

Oh, that's right....that isn't illegal in California. No wonder they have an energy crisis if every street is so well lit! :crazy:

[noiretextatique]

72. yep...two cop cars pulled me over

it's illegal to drive without properly functioning lighting equipment. its not illegal to forget to turn your lights on, which is why officers routinely use their loudspeakers to alert drivers. i live in a big city with lots of streetlights...and lots of violent crimes. i want my tax dollars used to fight crime, not to harass people for making easily correctable mistakes.

[Solomon]

16. This is the point that I was screaming to people when

the story first came out.

I am still non-plussed that there are people who think you can't speak your mind IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!!!

[BlooInBloo]

20. (shrug) As long as white folks whine about black folks being "tumultuous" or "oversensitive" or...

"crying wolf", they're giving other white folks carte blance to be as bigoted as they want to be.

The bigots cannot exist without the bigot-enablers.

[noiretextatique]

21. welcome to post-racial amerikkka eom

[Solly Mack]

23. k/r

[Enrique]

29. this guy doesn't know what happened

and he doesn't seem to know what a police state is.

[N7255Q]

31. The blame is not only on the cops. "Disorderly conduct" is a legal charge

everywhere in the U.S. It should be abolished but that responsibility sits with legislatures. Supplying cops with it to use at pretty much their own discretion is just one more way to suppress the activities of otherwise innocent citizens.
http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/disorderly-conduct.html

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. Yes, the blame is on the cop, who should have apologised and departed.

When Gates was positively identified as the owner of the home, the police officer had no need nor indeed any right to be there; this is a principle of common law that goes back to Magna Carta. And there was certainly no need to refuse a request for name and badge number, nor to arrest a man on his own property after leading him outside under a pretext of 'not being able to communicate via radio'. The 'disorderly conduct' charge was transparent bullshit, I'm sorry.

[N7255Q]

37. I was addressing the charge of disorderly conduct as it is generally utilized, not only in this case

It was brought up in the original post, so I assumed it was acceptable to comment on it. Probably you weren't there, I know I wasn't but I do know that getting into a fracas with a cop no matter who is "right" isn't the brightest idea. There are plenty of remedies available after the fact.

[truedelphi]

55. Welcome to DU. n/t

[DissedByBush]

32. I don't understand the initial outrage

You look like you're breaking into your house.

Someone calls the cops.

The cops show up and demand ID.

You show your ID.

If you are reasonable you thank the cop for looking out for your property.

The cop leaves.

[N7255Q]

40. There is an awful lot of 'he said, she said' going on here.

:shrug:

[DissedByBush]

64. Way too much

But as more information comes out it's looking rosier for this police officer and not so good for Gates.

[BurtWorm]

33. I've told many officers that they're assholes. I've never been arrested for disorderly conduct.

Is that because I'm not black?

[Echo In Light]

36. I've told a few rural, Deputy Dawgs that their jobs are by and large meaningless

...but in each instance, only after they made that fact clear, whereby it was obvious the want of stopping me was fueled by their own personal impetus rather than having any objective suspicion of wrong doing of any sort.

[izzybeans]

45. Me too.

I'm pretty certain it's because I'm not black.

[Exultant Democracy]

34. This is the America that a lot of us live in. Justice, equality, and liberty are still denied

to many of us, I was harassed 7 times by the police last year and handcuffed and tossed into the back of a car because they thought I stole my own BMW. When you consider that the bill of rights clearly doesn't protect people of color we aren't much better off here then if we lived in Iran.

[WilliamPitt]

39. The arrest is bullshit, but

...if it were my house, I'd be grateful that a neighbor cared enough to alert the cops if they saw someone breaking into my house (which is apparently what it looked like when Gates was trying to pry his way past the door).

The cops who arrested Gates in his own house after he'd identified himserf should be fired and sued. But the fact that the cops got called in the first place isn't and shouldn't be racially-tinged. If someone - black, white, blue or lime green - was spotted trying to pry their way into my house, the neighbor who called the cops would get a bouqet of flowers from me the next day.

[quiller4]

50. I wouldn't be grateful to that neighbor at all. Now if she had helped

me get into my own house, maybe. Call the cops on me hell no. If she got anything from me it would be a call from my attorney.

[hiphopnation]

44. kick for the dumb-dumbs in this thread parroting defense of immature, racist cops

may they be paraded for all DUers to see for the next several days.....


:kick:

[N7255Q]

48. Also for the dumb-dumbs (sic) who claim all cops are assholes.

...

[bertman]

46. I usually recommend kpete's threads but I just UNrecommended this one. This is

NOT an example of a police state by a LOOOONG shot.

[mudplanet]

47. I don't have a problem with authority, I just hate cops

Who would want to do a job like that? Typically, they fall into one of three categories:

1 People who want to be helpful, maybe even with hero fantasies (let's give them the benefit of a doubt and assume that 60% of cops fall into this category)

2 People who enjoy bullying people and being officious pricks (these first two categories also include people that aren't too smart but need a job with benefits)

3 Sadists and simple sociopaths

That said, we have to have cops.

But we have to have serious checks on their behavior. They can not be relied upon to police their own behavior. The best way to do this is to have 'citizen review' panels not made up of rubber stamp mayoral appointees.

Charging Gates with a crime is just SOP for cops. If a cop does something wrong and he knows it, he'll pile on charges ad absurdum (and I'm not pulling this out of my ass, but from numerous experiences including two brothers who were beaten for, basically, no-discernible-reason, and then had to bargain with an assistant DA and eventually cop a plea on the least serious charges because they weren't wealthy enough to defend themselves in court against the charges of resisting arrest, disturbing the peace, public drunkenness, assault on a police officer, etc.)

Don't be so naive as to not believe that cops are master liers and that "testilying" in court isn't a popular joke with cops. Thank god for cheap video technology. It's only since their introduction that cops have started to get caught out when they act like criminals (and they still seem surprised when they get charged. "I HAD to taser that 77 year old lady. She was threatening me.)

I could go on and on about stupid, a**hole cops I've had to deal with. Pulling me over and giving me a ticket, legitimately, for not wearing my seatbelt, and then going on to interrogate me with questions like, "Where do you live," "Where are you coming from," "Where do you work," "Where are you going," to all of which I simply replied, "None of your business." And I'm a middle-aged, middle class white man that could pass for a bank executive. I can't imagine what people of color have to put up with.

Wait, yes I can. I was traveling to Arizona with a black friend to help him with an art installation. We stopped on the side of a state highway, well off the road, no traffic whatsoever, to grab an hour of sleep about 2am. After falling asleep, I am suddenly awakened with a flashlight in my face. A highway patrolman wants our ID. We give it to him. Then my friend faces a long battery of questions.

Where are you going?
Phoenix.

Where are you coming from?
Houston

What are you going to Phoenix for?
To install an art project for an art show.

What do you do for a living?
I'm an artist.

What kind of art? (Like the cop was some kind of art expert and he could catch my friend out in a lie if he didn't answer correctly)

At this stage I was about explode. What business of his was any of this? The only reason I didn't lip off to him was because my friend was black and I didn't want to cause trouble for him.

[Bette Noir]

49. I was shocked at the initial response to this situation,

which was very much that Gates had it coming for not being more cooperative with the police. Has America lost the capacity for seeing things from another viewpoint? I, for one, would be terrified if a police officer came to my door, accused me of a crime, followed me into my kitchen, and then cuffed me on my front porch and put me into a police car. I am afraid of police for the same reason many, if not most, people of color are; I have been a victim of abuse from a police officer in the past. If a cop came into my house, I'd be sure that I was about to be raped or murdered.

The officer involved should not only be suspended; he should be fired, and Gates should get a settlement for false imprisonment in the million-dollar range.

[Libertas1776]

52. On a side note,

there is no widespread law, at least on the federal level, that requires an officer of the law to identify their badge number etc upon request. However, most police departments usually have a policy that requires it, and there probably are some laws on the books in certain municipalities, counties, maybe states, whatever that require it. The problem is that even if they are required to by their own force, they usually ignore it, abuse it, or don't knoiw about it.
For example, the NYPD has a policy that requires officers to identify themselves, badge number etc if requested by a civilian. Of course, there are plenty of stories still occurring where the cops harass and arrest people for asking to see their badge.

[clear eye]

79. Another poster said MA has a state LAW. n/t

[haleymills]

53. Fear and loathing

This made me incredibly sad, but not because Gates is a great, highly esteemed academic, but because of the many people I can mentally tic off who have experienced a powerlessness and NOT had the resources to make a national news story or get terrific legal aid. He may feel the emotional side of this, and his rights seem to have been infringed on. Probable cause, one of my favorite legal questions, was treated like a footnote.

The rights of citizens against illegitimate behavior of law enforcement are not substantial enough, and I'd love to know if there are any organizations out there providing research and legal aid and political advocacy on this issue. Even if you haven't experienced it firsthand, I believe there's a pervasive feeling of absolute fear of law enforcement. It's not just a sentiment of criminals; it's the fear of people who are vehemently law-abiding people, wondering if they'll be caught in some unknown loophole, or be at the mercy of the random and unchecked whims of a police officer.

A friend of mine had an ex-boyfriend who was abusive, and prone to stalking her workplace and hangouts years after they had broken up. That same boyfriend recently went into law enforcement, and my friend is terrified that this gives him carte blanche to intimidate, follow, and interact with her. Another acquaintance was separated from her infant child and arrested after rolling through a stop sign. I'm sure we can all recall something similar.

When there's something strange in the neighborhood...who ya gonna call?

[Karenina]

69. GHOSTBUSTERS!!! Skip can handle it.

As is his wont, it will surely be turned into a teaching moment. WELCOME TO DU!

[cali]

63. Yet another clueless git who has no frickin' idea what a police state really is.