Atheists choose 'de-baptism' to renounce childhood faith

[babsbunny]

Atheists choose 'de-baptism' to renounce childhood faith

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-07-21-atheists-debaptism_N.htm

By G. Jeffrey MacDonald, Religion News Service
Up until last summer, Jennifer Gray of Columbus, Ohio, considered herself "a weak Christian" whose baptism at age 11 in a Kentucky church came to mean less and less to her as she gradually lost faith in God.

Then the 32-year-old medical transcriptionist took a decisive step, one that previously hadn't been available. She got "de-baptized."

PARODY: Hair dryer blows baptism away

In a type of mock ceremony that's now been performed in at least four states, a robed "priest" used a hairdryer marked "reason" in an apparent bid to blow away the waters of baptism once and for all. Several dozen participants then fed on a "de-sacrament" (crackers with peanut butter) and received certificates assuring they had "freely renounced a previous mistake, and accepted Reason over Superstition."

[KansDem]

1. Use sand...

I'd use sand. Pour a little on my forehead and then dunk me in a sandbox. Preferably one not frequented by kitties...

[Liquorice]

2. LOL nt

[valerief]

3. Too much ritual for my taste but funny nonetheless. nt

[Rick Myers]

4. Seems kinda goofy to me...

I yelled at the parish priest when I was 14... That was enough...

[rd_kent]

5. Frikkin great!!! I love it!!!

Thats too funny! Makes sense, though, as a symbol to rid yourself of the shackles of religion.

[Fire1]

6. Now that's some stupid shit. n/t

[rug]

7. That's rather silly. If it's superstition why does it need to be removed?

[trotsky]

8. For the most part, a believer renouncing their faith is met with scorn and intolerance.

From friends, family, coworkers, even strangers. Having a little ritual among people who won't condemn or shun them is a relief, and might just be cathartic.

But fuck 'em, they're just uppity fundie atheists, right?

[rug]

10. Is that why they organize a ceremony replete with scorn and intolerance?

How was yours?

[trotsky]

12. You poor thing.

That a small group of people chooses to do in private is somehow comparable to the socially endorsed intolerance of them in public.

Those mean old nasty atheists, they should just STFU and get to the back of the bus.

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- Former President George H.W. Bush

[rug]

13. Ah, one of the small group of friends at this catharsis was a USA Today reporter.

You're stretching again.

[trotsky]

14. Those damn atheists deserve every bit of scorn and hatred they get, then.

Fuck 'em!

[rug]

17. The crackers and peanut butter went a long way to advance the cause of Reason.

[trotsky]

20. I am truly sorry that this tiny group of atheists did not behave in a way that you approve.

They deserve endless disparagement and insults, surely.

[rug]

23. Shallow mockery usually does.

[semillama]

53. Were you there? I was.

And it was hardly a "Ceremony replete with scorn and intolerance." I'm sorry you feel you have to mischaracterize a whole group of people to try and support a faulty position, rather than find out what actually went on.

As a matter of fact, it was an opportunity for like-minded people to get together, network, eat food, have fun, and for a lot of folks, it was a chance to refute something that they likely had no choice in - ceremonial-sure, silly-of course, cathartic-you bet. Several folks there expressed how religion as practiced in their families and communities scarred them because they doubted, thought different, or had abuse justified through religion. The de-baptism was a chance for them to symbolically "wash away the sins" of a religious past and commit themselves to a life based on reason and "gasp" tolerance for other viewpoints.

There was even a family of Christian protesters there. It was a pretty warm day, so some of the "Fundie Atheists" went out to them -not to taunt or confront them, but to bring them food and water. Later, after the event, they came in and talked with several folks. No one's position was changed, but everything was civil and friendly - the type of society that most atheists want to live in.

[rug]

57. Were the crackers and peanut butter scorn or catharsis?

I'm sorry you feel you have to mischaracterize a whole group of people to try and support a faulty position.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

21. It's not about removing superstition

It's about being one's own self - and poking fun at one's previous self at the same time. Would you rather they blew up some children or crashed some airplanes into buildings?

[rug]

30. Anyone can poke fun at a prior self but, unless that prior self was a cracker,

that's not what they were doing.

And if you are suggesting that the WTC was a religious act, post it in the 9/11 forum.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

31. I'm not at all suggesting that 9/11 was a religious act

I'm saying that those who perpetrated those acts were performing religious rituals at the time of the terrorist act. And further that the atheists in the OP performing the "de-baptisms" weren't committing violent acts while performing their rituals. And no matter how silly they might be, I've never heard of an atheist performing these rituals while committing murder. Have you?

You really can't understand how atheists feel, are treated, or how we might find outlets for some of the frustration we feel? If you told a gay person to "get over it" (which is essentially what you're saying), you wouldn't last long on DU. Why is it acceptable to take the same attitude with atheists?

[rug]

38. You are comparing 9/11 to a religious act.

And now you are comparing your atheism to being gay?

[Touchdown]

40. I'm gay and I would. Both acknowledge reality.

And both require the eschewing of previous fairy tales. Gay is bad, and God says so. Gay is bad because some man says so and blames it on the sky fairy.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

44. Can you answer my questions?

When was the last time an atheist ritual was being performed during a violent act? I can't recall one at all.

And I'm NOT at all comparing my atheism to being gay. Being gay is a hell of a lot harder than being an atheist, and I wouldn't EVER try to compare the challenges I face with those faced by our LGBT brothers and sisters. What I am doing is comparing YOUR comments in regards to atheism, that if directed at the gay community, wouldn't be tolerated here at DU. Implicit in your remarks is the idea that atheists should just keep quiet about their atheism.

[rug]

58. I've never heard of an atheist performing a ritual involving baptism.

I've heard of many who mock religious rituals.

Mocking religion is not advancing atheism, it is mocking with a broad brush, which, parenthetically, is against DU rules.

[Jester Messiah]

50. Those hijackers surely did so on the impetus of their religion.

Or do you deny that this is so?

[rug]

56. Do you contend the Iraq and Afghan wars are religious wars?

[Jester Messiah]

61. Perhaps you might re-read my post.

I contend that the 9/11 hijackers did their hijacking based on the impetus of their religion; they thought it would please God, and they thought so because their clerics told them so. That's religion.
Where would you get the impression that I contended anything else?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. Hey, that's pretty funny!

If it works for them, and makes them feel better, I say, GO FOR IT!

RAH RAH REASON!

[ColbertWatcher]

11. LOL! Awesome! k+r, n/t

[tritsofme]

15. Sounds like that one episode of South Park.

With the atheist gerbils in the future.

I don't think I could go on to explain the episode without sounding slightly sillier than this story.

[theboss]

16. If you don't believe in God, why go through this ritual?

This strikes me as an act but someone unsure of what they believe.

[Iggo]

18. Um...it's a joke.

[trotsky]

19. See, you and I don't get it.

Atheists are SUPPOSED to just shut up, hide, and not ever speak of their disbelief. Then and only then are they acceptable to society, even supposedly tolerant Christians on DU.

[MineralMan]

25. Oh, for pity's sake.

I've been an atheist for almost 45 years now. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why anyone would have any sort of "ceremony" to announce such a thing.

I believed (I was a teenager). I grew up and could no longer believe. That was the extent of it. A public ceremony is just nonsense, accomplishing nothing but to make the person participating in it look like a hopeless fool.

[trotsky]

26. So would you say that everyone should be like you?

Hey, for the record, I was. Just stopped believing. No big deal. But I think these ceremonies are just fine. Enjoy the little ritual. Turning away from a belief that you've been raised in can be traumatic. Society embraces rituals for life-changing events, why not for the renunciation of belief? Let them enjoy a little bit of fun.

[MineralMan]

29. I would not say that. What I would say is what I said.

Such things are silly. That's my opinion. The opinions of others may differ from mine. Vive le Roi!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

34. And I don't think anyone would disagree that the rituals are silly

I think they are, but I think that's part of the point for these people. If it helps them to move ahead in their lives and gain some acceptance for their atheism, even if in only one small corner of their lives, I say good for them.

But yea, I definitely think they're silly and wouldn't be caught dead doing those things. I'd just feel like a jackass, much like I did when I was baptized in my church earlier in life.

[theboss]

35. I'm probably becoming an atheist if I am not already there

If I do make that leap completely, one of things I will be glad to be rid of is group identity and rituals.

Not to over-generalize, but there seems to be a small group of atheists who seem obsessed with their own atheism. It is, dare I say, almost a religion to them.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

22. If you DO believe in god, why have any rituals at all?

After all, you already believe in the dude, what are the stupid little rituals going to accomplish?

[GaYellowDawg]

39. Familiarity is comforting.

Everyone has little everyday rituals, whether it's how you get out of bed in the morning, or how you greet your coworkers, or whatever. It's a comforting part of human existence, so it should be unsurprising that ritual is a part of religion.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

43. Of course it is - I was being facetious

I was merely trying to point out the absurdity of someone who (if he's at all human) has his own rituals deriding the rituals performed by someone else.

[Marr]

42. I don't really understand it, either.

I'm an atheist myself, but I was raised without any faith. The people I've known who were raised religious and found their way to atheism seem to have a somewhat different outlook from my own. I don't want to say they're angry, but some seem to harbor a certain resentment towards their old faith. Maybe a ceremony like this one is way of giving the finger to something that troubled them.

Whatever-- I would find it difficult to admonish them for it when atheists are so openly reviled.

[MineralMan]

24. Well, now, that's just silly.

Maybe that was the intent. I hope they weren't serious.

A ceremony to announce you no longer believe in supernatural entities? What is the point? Just don't believe. It's that simple.

[Q3JR4]

27. I saw the headline and was about

to post some snarky comment along the lines of "what's the use?" and then I laughed when I read the article.

Good times.

Q3JR4.

[deaniac21]

28. Just as nutty as the xians.

[undeterred]

32. Should have used this:

[LWolf]

33. DUZY. nt

[Mythsaje]

36. A dislike of ritual is one reason I couldn't get into religion...

I'm not sure I could tolerate one to get "jumped out," either.

:shrug:

But to each his or her own, I guess.

[Control-Z]

37. I refused baptism when I was a child, luckily.

Even then I knew it was wrong for me. Prayer and other religious hooey always gave me the eebie-jeebies.

[proteus_lives]

41. "Shrugs"

Well, every faith has its rituals.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

45. Ah geez, not this shit again

Atheism is NOT a faith. To use the tired cliche, atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. I lack ANY belief in any form of higher power. That doesn't mean I've dismissed it, just that I don't have any active belief that there isn't a higher power. I require evidence - I don't believe or disbelieve, and many atheists are just like that.

[Jester Messiah]

49. Hear, hear! [nt]

[WildEyedLiberal]

60. I think that was the poster's point

If atheism isn't an instituion or a faith - which, as you have correctly noted, it is not - then why the need for silly attention-whoring rituals as demonstrated in the OP? Most atheists are very clear that they do not have any sort of ritualized beliefs, and yet displays such as the one in the OP seem to prove otherwise.

I realize that the people in the OP represent a tiny, tiny minority fraction of atheists, and I do not presume that they speak for all atheists. However, when many atheists on DU defend their behavior, it does call into question the adamant insistence that their particular brand of atheism is not a sort of fundamentalism of its own.

[Fumesucker]

46. There is already a name for the process of a theist losing their faith and becoming an atheist.

Deconversion.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deconversion

http://de-conversion.com/tag/de-conversion-story/

[optimal-tomato]

47. Man, I dodged a bullet...

My fundie family has "baptism on request", so you can get it any time. I was always a lazy kid who didn't like rituals and social gatherings so I never got dunked (even though I was offered it several times at other baptisms). By the time I was a teenager, I was bone dry and a militant atheist.

I hate to think what could have happened if I was raised in a church less accepting of independence. I'd probably still be underwater...

[Withywindle]

48. Makes sense to me.

If, at some point in your life, you had a religious ritual inflicted on you when you were too young to understand or consent, or if you made a choice you later decide you want to renounce, why not make the "undoing" as much an actual act as the "doing"?

One doesn't have to believe in mystical beings to be responsive to ritual and symbolism - these things are as significant to literature or psychology or politics as they are to religion. Not much escaping those, if you're in human society. You might as well reject high school graduations, awards ceremonies, and anniversary parties.

Might as well have fun with it too. :thumbsup:

[BolivarianHero]

51. I'm an atheist, and I'm not doing this...

Whatever I may thing of the Roman Catholic Church, it still remains part of my personal and cultural identity, even if I have no intention of ever going to a service again, save my sister's upcoming wedding (Her fiance's religious.).

[semillama]

52. I was de-baptized at this event!

It was a lot of fun, but the root beer was kinda flat.

[SidDithers]

54. Good for them! Sounds like a fun event...nt

Sid

[marshall]

55. Do they denounce their family as well?

Childhood faith is largely a parenting decision.

[jmondine]

59. I have mixed feelings about this

On one hand, the ceremonies one performs to declare or denounce their belief systems is one's own business.

On the other, it seems rather snarky and reactionary to me. Rather than find an alternative ceremony that better confirms their own beliefs, they seem to be instead reactively mocking the beliefs of others.

It reminds me of someone who once told me that they dislike any popular movie for the very reason of its popularity. They got really annoyed when I pointed out that they were letting others determine their taste just as much as any conformist.

But I digress. I'll just say that it's not my cup of tea.