On MILFs, Cougars, and Forces of Nature. Discuss.

[lapislzi]

Last week, there was a thread concerning a “Miss Cougar” contest being held at a race track. There was some discussion about the appropriateness of the venue, and more discussion about the use of the term “cougar.” The general connotation is that of a sexually assertive unattached woman in her forties or fifties, who maintains a youthful appearance, dresses younger than her age, and is assumed to be affluent. She “hunts” for younger lovers for short or long-term liaisons. She would, I think, object strongly to the term “Miss.” She’s a “Ms” if ever there was one. Of course, the word “cougar” implies predation, and perhaps in a negative context (open to debate, imo). It also implies a certain grace and sleekness that I don’t find offensive in the slightest.

Except for the fact that there is a man in my life (who is my own age), I fit that description. As I said above, I am not offended by the term, or the term “MILF,” but I tend to be easygoing and let that kind of thing roll off me. In my life, I have actively sought lovers, propositioned men, and generally didn’t wait to be asked. This can have a curious effect on men. Maybe I made errors in judgment or in my choice of quarry, but men were often intimidated by a sexually assertive woman.

Now, my women friends and I are all in our forties. We’re all fit, youthful, fun, and incredibly capable. We don’t need a man in our lives. We change tires, perform all our own home repairs, and are adept at many things traditionally considered the purview of men. We refer to ourselves as “Forces of Nature”—or FoNs for short. The unmarried among us would fall into the “cougar” category, but that’s purely a sexual term…and we’re so much more than that. And we’ve all had similar experiences when we behave in a sexually assertive manner.

I’d like to hear from men and women on this topic.

• Are you offended by the terms “MILF” and “cougar?” Why or why not?
• Men, are you intimidated by a sexually assertive woman?
• Women, have you experienced this type of diffident rejection?

I’m just going to sit back and watch for awhile. Thank you in advance for your comments.

[YOY]

1. ...

:evilgrin:

[MineralMan]

2. Congratulations! You win my

"Post That Should Be in The Lounge" award for today.

Don Pardo...tell the FoN what she's won!

[Chorophyll]

7. I don't think this has to be a Lounge post.

Words that seek to denigrate women is a political issue in my book.

[MineralMan]

8. You're welcome to create your own award, then.

[Chorophyll]

22. And you're welcome to stay off threads that clearly don't interest you. nt

[LWolf]

38. Cultural perceptions of, and expectations of, women

are not jokes.

They are as political as it gets.

Since you have appointed yourself the arbitrator of what constitutes "lounge material" and what doesn't. :eyes:

[MineralMan]

47. I've appointed myself nothing. I gave a personal award.

It's my comment on this personal original post. Your mileage may vary. I'm not a moderator or anything else than an ordinary posting member of DU.

[safeinOhio]

3. At my age I think of attractive

40 and 50 somethings as hot young chicks. Never use those other terms, just like I don't text or tweeter.

[Berry Cool]

64. How old are you??

...and you say you're in Ohio, hm???...

[Chorophyll]

4. I'm only offended by the word "cougar" insofar as

there's no equivalent for men. A man remaining unmarried and intentionally seeking out younger women is merely called a man.

Same for MILF. Why is it that women are presumed to lose their sexuality just because they've become a parent?

I know there's a general belief that men "age well" and women don't. Well, I don't find that "aging well" is based on gender. It's a matter of personality. People who make an effort to keep fit and informed and involved in things are sexy.

Thought-provoking post. Thanks. ;)

[YOY]

10. "Silver-haired Fox.", "Sugar Daddy", "Daddy Warbucks"

"Hugh"

I've actually heard a gay dude call Joe Biden the first one. Flatteringly.

[Chorophyll]

20. Exactly... "flatteringly."

Come on. Older men who get younger women are admired in society and always have been.

[YOY]

23. "Sugar Daddy" is a flattering term? It brings pimps to my mind!

What about "Dirty Old Man"? Flattering???? Come on. There are sitautions with dual standards...not so much here.

"Silver Haired Fox" is flattering. So is "Cougar" IMHO.

I've heard dudes being called "Hugh Hefner" not in the flatering sense. More like they don't know that they're geriatric and the attraction is so blatantly to the money that it's laughable.

[seabeyond]

29. mehhhh, not so much. having experienced older men/young girl from female perspective

one way or another over decades. i really dont see a lot of respect as a whole from either gender. it is pretty well known it is two people using each other.

[YOY]

36. There's not.

Men do not look at (usually wealthy) geriatric grandpa with hottie at his side and say "What a player!" We're usually laughing at him moreso than her behind his back.

Quod eram demonstrandum: Congrats! You're leaving the fortune you built to a person who is going to spend it on making an entire room of your house pink!

[seabeyond]

69. exactly. i dont see a whole lot of respect from either gender, for either of the

players.

it simply is what it is

[AndyfromNC]

80. Yeah

but do you see that smile on his face? That is a genuine smile. Probably worth the $500 mil it cost him. When ou are worth billions, what does it matter?

[YOY]

91. If making pretend someone loves his for himself does that...sure.

Of course...his kids who may or may not actually care for him might have different feelings about the relationship.

Takes a little more than a blowjob from a cute face to make me truly happy.

The kind of happy that keeps going.

[deaniac21]

129. You mean die soon just like you.

[AngryAmish]

34. Chickenhawk?

[Butch350]

12. Ever heard of the term, "Sugga Daddy"

Why be offended by the name - be offended by the their reputation.
(Old Nymphos)

[Chorophyll]

21. The "reputation" is implicit in the term.

Why are women who like sex called "nymphos," anyway? Again, men who like sex are just men, right?

Women are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[redqueen]

40. Just underpinnings for all that virgin/slut bullshit. (nt)

[MindPilot]

58. It is an old idea.

maybe from Freud, or maybe even before that; there is something wrong with a woman who likes sex, whereas a huge sexual appetite is completely normal in the male.

An idea that unfortunately is pretty deeply ingrained in our culture.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

105. No, men who are addicted to sex are called "satyriasists"

The etymology for both of these terms (nymphomaniac and satyriasist) derives from Greek mythology. Nymphs were always female; satyrs were always male.

Also, FWIW, nymphomania and satyriasis are BOTH classified as disorders in the ICD-10.

[redqueen]

108. The issue is why do normal women get labeled with that as a pejorative.

Yet the reverse does not happen with men.

[Butch350]

118. Of course, it's in my nature.

But I thought the womens term for men like that are, "DOGS"?

[lapislzi]

18. The whole "youth" vs "age" thing opens up a new can of worms

The obsession with youthful appearance--and I freely admit to buying into this myself--is a symptom of our sick culture.

[seabeyond]

25. this is where i have issue. i refuse to play that game.

at 47 i am loving life. in shape, fit, happy, content. not gonna struggle with perceptions of how i am suppose to look or who i am suppose to be.... anymore. been there and done that in earlier years. girls, women suppose to look only a certain way.

people tell me, i look younger than my years. i dont see it as a compliment. i tell them i want a healthy 47, and no more.

society works so hard to condition us all into messed up. this is just another to put the pressure on and us feeling bad about ourselves

[redqueen]

42. Completely agree... it is a sickness. (nt)

[G_j]

57. culture, but isn't biology involved also?

Aren't animals biologically predisposed to seek out the best candidates to produce healthy babies?

[lapislzi]

63. Yes. But what criteria are we applying?

You could argue that a female might choose a wealthy, although physically inferior candidate because he would be able to better provide a secure environment to rear the young. Cultural norms, biases, perceptions...we are not purely biologically driven.

[seabeyond]

71. what it is, the female gets impreg by alpha, leaves his ass for a beta to raise

the child...

this is so old

[G_j]

74. no, because our power of reasoning is so well developed

(if we choose to use it)

We can play scenarios through in our brains before we make choices.
Many aspects come in to play, certainly biology can be one of them.
Sex, does after all, have strong biological components. :-)

I find some of the studies that have been done, fascinating,
how people react to various body shapes, facial features, smells, etc.
But most of us don't make choices simply based on these things.
There are other parts of our brains too!

One can't forget the "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac" assertion, though I've never been drawn to that, some are.
Lots of factors, and everyone is a little different.

[seabeyond]

72. so old and tired, and just the "new fad" of today. nt

[guitar man]

51. "Dirty old man"

At least that's what I get called anyway :P

[Hugabear]

55. The term "cougar" is a relatively new term itself

At least, I've only heard it over the past few years, and it seems to have exploded in popularity over the past year. It may have been around before, I don't know - just going by what I've seen and heard.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

104. No, they're actually usually called "cradle robbers" in my experience

Or "lechers" or "dirty old men".

I'm not sure where this idea that are no pejorative terms for men came from, but it's kind of ridiculous.

[sammytko]

5. change tires?

how many flat tires have you had? i've been driving for 35 years and have only had 1 flat tire in my life. Okay, now i've done it - the flat tire gods will be after me for sure.

[lapislzi]

9. I have had two flat tires.

One I changed myself in a snowstorm. When I got the other one, my ex husband happened to be following me (we were on our way back from an event) and insisted on changing it for me because I was in evening clothes. So was he, but he didn't seem to mind, and I was OK with that.

[Javaman]

14. I'm a guy and I have a guy neighbor who couldn't change a tire to save his life.

either you know how or you don't, it's not a gender issue.

[lapislzi]

16. I understand that.

That's why I said "traditionally considered the purview of men." I don't think you could argue with that. Well, I guess you could, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[sammytko]

17. maybe he doesn't want to do it

i was trained to change tires on 5 ton diesels, but would i want to - no way...

my mother trained me to wash dishes, but do I want to - no way...

i know how to mow the lawn, but do i want to - again no way...

i also refuse to eat store bought tomatoes, so I grow my own. i don't mind composting cow manure to its perfect consistency, and i love my tiller

[Javaman]

49. It was a tire on a volkswagen jetta. nt

[seabeyond]

27. when young, my dad insisted i learn. why"? i have never had to change tire

and dont see ever having to in years remaining.

[sammytko]

30. same thing with changing the oil - why?

when the nice guy at the dealership does if for 22 dollars and throws in a tank of gas - so really its more than free.

[seabeyond]

32. ya know. lol. nt

[Codeine]

89. You've never had a flat?

Never picked up a nail or screw? You're a lucky driver.

I've changed about seven or eight tires, twice on the freeway. Oddly it was the same stretch of the 134 near the Cahuenga Blvd. offramp in the Hollywood-ish area, and only about a week apart.

I actually rather enjoy changing tires; it has a bit of Zen to it for me. :)

[seabeyond]

92. lol, of course i have had flats. lol. just never had to change one.

i draw my lines. changing tires is one of them. thankfully, i have gotten away with it. might be a time, though i dont see it, when i dont get away with it.

[Codeine]

96. Oh! I see.

I usually drive alone and lack the patience to wait for a repair vehicle. I was starting to think I had extra-shitty tires or something. :)

[seabeyond]

97. lol lol. "I had extra-shitty tires or something. " that is funny

there really are female privileges as there are male privileges. i guess the difference being, is i recognize and embrace, acknowledge adn own. some are harmful, some not so harmful. not changing a tire is one of the ones i dont think is harmful

oh

and not killing bugs. lol

[Curtland1015]

6. I'm not offended by those terms. But then, I'm not a woman.

I suppose anything that points to the sexualization of women will always be seen from two angles around here. Either it's "more treating women as sex objects and not real people", or it's "it empowers them and as adults they are free to do and act any way they want".

I fall more into the second camp, but I see the point made by those in the first a lot of the time.

As for "Q" number two, I actually AM intimidated by sexually assertive women. Frightened actually. Mostly because I get embarrassed easily.

:blush:

[TexasObserver]

11. Sounds like whistling through the graveyard.

[here_is_to_hope]

13. I love strong, assertive women...

The labels tossed around not so much but a few weeks ago while at the market, I was approached by a woman, 15 words into the casual conversation, she labeled herself a 'cougar'...YIKES!
I took it at face value, she was 70, I am 48....

[Forkboy]

15. You said it yourself, cougar is a purely sexual term, and that's all it's meant to be.

It's not intended to encompass every aspect of that woman's life. Cougars can be all kinds of things apart from that, good or bad. It's just one facet of their personality, the one that relates to sex. It's probably a hell of a lot nicer than what a 40 year old man would be called if he sought out 20 year old females. :)

As to question two, no, not intimidated at all. It's preferable to me, partly because I like people who know what they want and aren't afraid to say so, not just sexually, and partly because if women are going to wait for us men to pick up on whatever clues you're dropping you could be in for a long wait. :rofl:

[reflection]

19. Answers from a man:

1) Not offended by the terms 'MILF' and 'cougar', but generally don't use them myself for fear that I may offend other women.
2) Absolutely not offended by a sexually assertive woman. My wife's appetite for sex far exceeds my own and it feels nice to be wanted and loved.
3) n/a

[G_j]

24. what is a MILF? nt

[Matt_in_STL]

28. MILF

Mother I'd Like to....ummmm....get to know on a deeply intellectual level.

[G_j]

35. oh

stretching my brain.. maybe, midway-in-life-female... or something LOL


ok, thanks

[Sparkly]

26. Interesting questions!

I'm an unashamed feminist and I'm not sure about this one... Sometimes I've heard the terms and shrugged, other times I've felt pissed. I think for me, it depends on the context. Recognizing older women as sexual and attractive is good in my book; ridiculing them for it is not. And (some) men's penchant for announcing whether or not they'd have sex with a woman is just obnoxious.

[Warpy]

31. The French have the right idea

and call them "women of a certain age," often saying that young women are rather uninteresting in comparison. They find the combination of midlife attractiveness and wisdom irresistible.

Here, of course, we're still working on the frontier model that said women were worn out and over the hill by the age of 25. Diffident virgins are also the preferred model over women who know what they want and are confident enough to ask for it.

It's not the words that are the problem. It's the culture.

[lapislzi]

44. In my ideal world, you know, the one I'm designing...

The young men would be paired off with women in their 30s and 40s. The women will teach the young men the right way to go about things and the boys will have the sexual stamina and eagerness to learn. The young women will be paired off with men in their 30s and 40s--who have presumably already been taught by the elder generation of women. The older men will be gentle and educate the young women and everybody will have mutual respect for everyone else and the world would just be one giant polyamorous king sized bed.

And we'd all sleep better at night.

Hey, a girl can dream, right?

[MindPilot]

60. I like your dream.

Wish I could have lived it 30 years ago!

[seabeyond]

73. eeeew. all over the place, for so many reasons, lol

[lapislzi]

84. Hey, it's my thing, I admit it.

You don't need to buy into it if you don't want to. I obviously internalized waaaaay too much Robert Heinlein as a teenager, and that's probably not a good thing! (Except for the polyamory thing...maybe)

[seabeyond]

86. wink

and i can agree.... with all of this post. well, that it is your thing, lol. the robert heinlein thing.... clueless.

[LeftinOH]

33. Cougars always get my heart racing, especially these (and they're all over 40!)

http://image.automotive.com/f/featuredvehicles/9179789+pheader/p175136_large+1968_Mercury_Cougar_GTE+Front_Passenger_Side.jpg

[LWolf]

41. I learned to drive in this:

I loved that car so much that when it bit the dust, I bought another just like it. Between the 2, I rode in and drove a '69 Cougar for 15 years.

Now, if I weren't out of shape, with health issues and old injuries and the wear and tear of hard living, I'd be a "cougar," too, lol.

[MindPilot]

50. Mine was a '69

No I'm not making that up!

351 Cleveland, 4bbl, white, black vinyl top, power everything and ran like the proverbial scalded cat!

Love them sequential turn signals.

[Greyhound]

59. '68 XR-7

Preferably with the 428 SCJ, but the 390 ain't half bad either.

Mmmmmm...

[MindPilot]

37. From a man: I'm not frightened by sexually assertive women

but I am suspicious as hell. I grew up with an understanding--and I don't know if this came from my parents or what--that sex is something that women give and men get. Sex was always a bargaining chip and since the woman owned the vagina, she had the greater bargaining power.

I would likely be fairly well off by now if I had not spent so much gambling on the getting laid lottery.

No woman ever had sex simply because she liked it--there was always an ulterior motive--and I was probably well into my forties before I figured out that wasn't accurate.

Now pushing senior citizen status, it's not much of an issue anymore, but I suspect that idea is probably still fairly prevalent although slowly changing.

[lapislzi]

46. Thank you for your honesty.

My ex used to say "the only person who knows whether a man is going to have sex that day is the woman."

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :D

[MindPilot]

56. You're welcome. And I would also add that

those men who proudly announce they they are not bothered by sexually assertive or aggressive women, still, if pressured enough will admit to a tinge of trepidation when approached.

(I was the one who started the thread you referenced about "Miss Cougar".)

[redqueen]

39. We need to start calling men out for "dressing younger" than their age.

If it's something to be called out with women, then we need to start doing so for men, too. IMO.


on edit: Just wanted to add that the cougar stuff can be nasty or not... depending on context as someone said above.

And I also agreed with them that it's pretty sad how often some guys seem to think they need to announce whether or not they'd like to F someone. Nobody cares.

[reflection]

43. (puts my bermuda shorts, beanie and slingshot back in the closet)

:cry:

[redqueen]

48. lol...

I was thinking more of rock and roll t-shirts and stuff like that on older guys... but I don't care what people wear, it's just it pisses me off that it's some kind of weird thing if women do it.

[Curtland1015]

62. It's just as weird, there just isn't a catchy name to it.

Trust me. Men get mocked ALL THE TIME for not dressing their age.

[redqueen]

65. Odd... I don't recall ever seeing it.

:shrug:

There's not a word for women who do it either, though.

[lapislzi]

66. It's also a matter of degree.

Just because I dress young for my age doesn't mean I dress like my teenage daughter. Although I'm attractive, I couldn't pull that off, nor would I want to. I like to think that I'm aware of the levels of appropriateness. And if I catch my daughter frowning at my outfit, I'll think twice about it. There's a fine line between healthy levels of self-and-body consciousness and self-parody.

Having said that, I'll defend anybody's right to dress any way they damn well please.

[Codeine]

98. I suppose I do that myself.

I wonder if people think the bald guy in the Dresden Dolls/Dead Kennedys/Cure t-shirt and jeans looks strange in the aisles of Trader Joe's? :blush:

[redqueen]

107. Not IMO!

:)

[sammytko]

45. exactly - my SO (63) dressed like a hip dad when he

took his grandkids to SeaWorld. It was so funny - he did look good. Maybe he's a GILF - granpa .......

[redqueen]

54. Heh yes I see it often...

but it only ever seems to be pointed out when women do it. I just don't get it.

[endarkenment]

110. I refuse to wear anything other than baggy shorts and jeans

I am an age independent fashion disaster. A timeless and perpetual wardrobe malfunction. I don't even know what dressing like a 50+ year old man means. Does that require suits and shoes? Generally, no fucking way. I intend to die in Birkenstock or New Balance. I'll go to somebody else's funeral in a suit if I have to, just not mine.

[seabeyond]

111. lol, you go dude. i agree. comfort. no need to be a fashion plate anymore

comfort. stay fit, healthy.... and comfort. amen

[redqueen]

112. Hah... go you!

I'm the same way. I prefer to dress for comfort, not looks.

[Jennicut]

52. My husband thinks Jacklyn Smith, Morgan Fairchild, and

several other women of a "certain age" are extremely hot. He is 34. I think older men can be attractive as well. After say age 25, people should be allowed to find the opposite (or the same) sex attractive at any age and there should be no shock or limitations on it.

[supernova]

53. I'm in your same demographic

40s, single, and I take care of myself. Not so affluent at the moment, but that will change.

Cougar is OK for me. MILF doesn't sit well, though.

[pitohui]

61. cougar is OK, dislike MILF and GILF

i quickly correct anyone who calls me a MILF because i don't have kids and it's more than that -- like elvis i have no sexual interest in anyone else who has kids either, if you've had kids (male or female) i'm actively turned off to you, sorry folks that's the way i'm programmed -- i don't like drama, i don't like baggage, and kids are the ultimate baggage

i watched a GILF in action a few days ago who actually convinced not one but two twentysomething kids to go home with her, nice work, grandma, but i wouldn't have gone home with her if she paid me, not because of her body/appearance (which was terrific for her age) but because she was an obnoxious loudmouth who had already hit on half the guys in the room (and it was a big room) -- to me there's a difference between being seduced/charmed and being bullshitted by a loudmouth but what do i know? i'm sure as hell not her target audience

there's nothing wrong with being a sexy, seductive cougar getting her rocks off, in fact, i approve of it, but when you're hitting on every guy or couple of guys in the room, you're no different from some creepy old guy who hits on every chick or couple of chicks in the room until he finds someone soft-headed to go home with him

if i go after you, it's about YOU, you will not be left w. the idea that i'm just working my way down the list of guys at the party until somebody says "yes"

you can be a cougar and have some class or you can be a no-class cougar, up to you

my story and i'm sticking to it

[sammytko]

67. this reminds me of the guys who would make bets

on who could bring home the oldest woman at the bar.

[cliffordu]

68. This thread is useless without pictures.

None of it bothers me.

[lapislzi]

70. What kind of pictures?

Do you want to see a picture of me to prove that I haven't misrepresented myself? Do you want a picture of me with a boy toy? (Not exactly my boy toy...as I said, I have a man my own age, but I do have several young male friends with whom I flirt and am affectionate with).

Not getting the picture, so to speak.

However, if you really do want to see what I look like, PM me.

[cliffordu]

75. None of that.

"This thread is useless without pictures" is a common response to posts that explore any sort of sexual/sensual/physical area of our collective human endeavor....

It is meant as harmless jape.

Sorry for the confusion.

[seabeyond]

76. i see it only talking about females, never males and see it more to create female as object

for male entertainment. not harmless, but to denigrate and put in place. make a female a thing and without consideration, but turn on factor. and generally spoken about in the crudest and vilest of ways so guys can feel like "men". kinda like the wolf whistle on the street, but cant pull that off on the net.

i also find it interesting poster feels the need to validate her sexuality and physical appearance for approval from an anonymous person on the net. as if you will give her a thumbs up (preferably) or down. i would like to think we reach an age adn dont need that validation in either our sexuality or physical appearance. as if that is our worth.

which is in essence speaking to the very issue i have with this "cougar" thing going on.

[cliffordu]

77. You can assign the crudest and the most vile attributes to everything I say and

it won't make a fucking bit of difference.

Your life will still be empty enough that you have to post your hateful invectives wherein every man is a rapist and every woman hates her vagina for being near these scummy beasts....

I really feel sorry for you. And I don't say that around here, much.



My loving wife (cheerfully exploited and reduced to sex parts for almost 30 years..:sarcasm: ) and I just laughed till we cried because I imitated Elmer Fudd singing "Love in the nick of time" by Bonny Raitt.

But I guess you'll find a way to turn THAT into a hateful, exploitative bottom of the shithole interaction, too.

:puke:

[seabeyond]

79. I imitated Elmer Fudd singing "Love in the nick of time"

actually, i think it is cute. and grand that the two of you can have such simple joy together. especially after 30 yrs. hats off.

you gave a definition of meaning to phrase. i dont agree. and i have had plenty of time and opportunity to observe the use of the phrase. we disagree. what we do on the board

the rest..... garbage. and a true waste of YOUR time feeling sorry for me, or trying to figure who i am, on the net, without a clue.

[lapislzi]

82. Sorry for the confusion

I misunderstood the point of cliffordu's post.

Seabeyond, you know me well enough through my posts to know that I'm the last person to require validation from an anonymous poster. I started this thread *because* I am confident in my own sexuality and completely in control of it. I wanted to hear others' impressions of sexually confident women, or the experiences of such women.

Peace to you. I always enjoy your perspectives.

[seabeyond]

88. ahhhhhh

lol

back atcha.

found it surprising. but you know what i think of. a iphone app where young girls put up naked pictures to be "rated" by anonymous males on how "hot" they are. i dont know i will ever be able to get that one out of head. so many wrongs in that.

[redqueen]

81. It may be meant as a harmless jape...

but the underlying message is:

What's the point of this conversation, if we can't leer at hot chicks?

[cliffordu]

83. Don't care.

Your interpretation of what I said is really quite pathetic.

I feel sorry for you, now, too.

[redqueen]

85. LOL... okay... have fun with your pity.

I apologize for trying to explain why that joke isn't well received sometimes, since you don't care anyway.

:hi:

[Aristus]

78. I have never, ever feared older, sexually assertive women. I love them.

:loveya:

In fact, I married one. The woman who has been my wife for the last ten years first approached me when I was 26 and she was 35. I'd been around a little, but still lacked confidence around women, and never initiated encounters or relationships. When she made it clear that she wanted a relationship, I jumped happily on board. All my life, I've been attracted to older women. That might explain why I did so poorly with the girls in high school. I just couldn't relate to these melodramatic 17 year-old emotional wrecks. I was attracted to women who were older, more worldly, confident, and sexually self-assured. And those tiny little smile crinkles around the eyes? VERY sexy!

I'm a happy man. B-)

And since this post is useless without pics, here are some pics of me and my lovely wife... ;-)

[AspenRose]

128. You're an attractive couple.

:-)

[Romulox]

87. I'm a narcissist. I'd like to divert this thread in order to describe my lifestyle for you.

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

90. and then we get to critique? cool. bring it on.

:)

[Tim01]

93. All that talk.......

and no pics.
You can PM them to me if you want.:loveya:

[Codeine]

94. Sex is good and everybody wants it.

That society is becoming more accepting of women actively seeking out sex is fantastic.

Now let's go get laid. :evilgrin:

[lapislzi]

95. Works for me!

A society that's completely blissed-out on sex is unlikely to start wars. I'm all for it.

[AspenRose]

130. Sex is natural, sex is good....not everybody does it, but everybody should

(Thank you Mr. George Michael. }( )

"It's time to get laid" (with William H. Macy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJHMad1ZsM

[Missy Vixen]

99. I'm offended at the fact that there's an extra-special classification now

for women who are over 40. After all, how dare any woman choose, instead of waiting to be chosen?

I'm of two minds on dating someone significantly younger. It's up to the people involved. At the same time, I'm observing what's happening right now with one of my girlfriends, and it's not something I'd enjoy. She's engaged to a man 14 years younger than she is. They just had a baby. The man in question (and I use that term loosely,) isn't someone to be depended on. Truthfully, he's a flake. She ends up handling everything regarding the relationship, their family, etcetera. Maybe my ideas are old-fashioned, but why be in a relationship with someone (no matter how attractive,) that can't be bothered with any kind of responsibility?

I realize this is a sweeping generalization of guys in their 30's, but if this is what they're like, even if I were in the market for one, I'd have to think twice. It sounds like one big headache.

IMHO, YMMV.

Re: the sexually assertive thing. If I'm not going to get flamed for the above, I'll certainly get flamed for this: I'm thinking MOST men don't like a sexually assertive woman. They still want to be in control.

[redqueen]

100. People of all ages can be flakes...

so that does seem a bit unfair, yes.

However, re: men liking sexually assertive women (or just strong women in general)... I completely agree. Many claim they like them... but the reality might be a little different, due to that pesky subconscious thing.

[Codeine]

101. It may be a generational thing as well.

Younger men have quite simply been raised in a different environment with different gender expectations. It's entirely possible that issues of control don't play that large a role in their relationships.

Or I may be whistling past the graveyard.

[redqueen]

103. I honestly don't know...

I've heard that many younger men are less traditional(ly unfair) about these things... but then there is this example... but then that guy is in his 30's (not so young really)... so who knows?

I like to think that younger generations are improving with respect to these things... only time will tell.

[Missy Vixen]

102. Redqueen, I have an "admirer" that's 27

Obviously, this makes me sound like an egomaniac, but it's true. He worked with my husband. He made it plain on a number of occasions he was interested. I'm mystified, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it is flattering as hell.

The guy we know is responsible, reliable, interesting, funny and intelligent. He is everything my friend's fiance isn't, so I have to believe that I am wrong. I've had social encounters with other guys in the age group, though, and they act like my friend's fiance.

Mystifying.

[redqueen]

106. Lucky you!

I'm sexually assertive because I have to be. Must be nice!

:P

[pitohui]

109. yeah but your friend is NOT a cougar, a cougar is not just an age

a cougar goes on the hunt for fun no-strings sex

a loser or a sugar momma "buys" a boy toy and does for him like she's his mama

see? two different categories of women

all of us forty and fiftysomethings are NOT the same

having a baby with a baby is not a mature act and isn't the act of a cougar no matter how old your friend is in biological years

cougars have an instinct for self preservation! whereas your friend seems to be suffering from low self esteem and the assumption that she doesn't deserve a man who will help support her child -- a 35 year old "man" who can't be trusted and relied on isn't a "man" in my book

[TexasObserver]

113. Swap the genders in your post and see how objectionable it would be.

Here is your post, if written by a man, with slight chances to accommodate the switch in genders. See how it sounds when the speaker is a man, not a woman? It sounds just as silly and pretentious coming from a woman. The following is based upon your words, substituting the roles by gender. If this were used as an OP, it would be alerted and subjected to hundreds of indignant posts, as well it should. But if it's a woman acting in such a manner, no problemo.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, there was a thread concerning a “Mister Stallion” contest being held at a race track. There was some discussion about the appropriateness of the venue, and more discussion about the use of the term “stallion.” The general connotation is that of a sexually assertive unattached man in his forties or fifties, who maintains a youthful appearance, dresses younger than his age, and is assumed to be affluent. He “hunts” for younger lovers for short or long-term liaisons. He’s a “Mister” if ever there was one. Of course, the word “stallion” implies studly, and perhaps in a negative context (open to debate, imo). It also implies a certain grace and sleekness that I don’t find offensive in the slightest.

Except for the fact that there is a woman in my life (who is my own age), I fit that description. As I said above, I am not offended by the term, or the term “Sugar Daddy,” but I tend to be easygoing and let that kind of thing roll off me. In my life, I have actively sought lovers, propositioned women, and generally didn’t wait to be asked. This can have a curious effect on women. Maybe I made errors in judgment or in my choice of quarry, but women were often intimidated by a sexually assertive man.

Now, my men friends and I are all in our forties. We’re all fit, youthful, fun, and incredibly capable. We don’t need a woman in our lives. We cook, clean our homes, and are adept at many things traditionally considered the purview of women. We refer to ourselves as “Forces of Nature”—or FoNs for short. The unmarried among us would fall into the “stallion” category, but that’s purely a sexual term…and we’re so much more than that. And we’ve all had similar experiences when we behave in a sexually assertive manner.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
edited to remove phrase the OP found offensive

[lapislzi]

114. I don't get how you think I'm acting like a jerk

Please explain.

I'm talking about women's sexual identities, and as your post points out, the differences between the genders are marked.

[seabeyond]

116. i thought it was good, beyond the jerk part. (didnt pay attention to that)

whether male or female, i dont see a difference in the behavior, regardless.

i see this as a gender neutral issue. TO just happens to touch, or nail, one of my issues.

[TexasObserver]

117. That is not what I said. I made a point of obnoxious behaviors by men and women.

Why don't you read my post again, and ask yourself how such a man would sound?

Would a man who boasted of being sexually aggressive with women, particularly younger women, be lauded? Of course not.

Would a man who bragged of not needing women, of being able to do whatever a woman can do, but of wanting to have sex with younger women for his own pleasure be considered anything but a boor? Of course not.

If you read my post, which contains your post rewritten as if by man, it's clear that such a man would be an obnoxious, self centered jerk.

I'm pointing out that such conduct is inherently annoying and obnoxious, and the fact that the actor is a woman, not a man, does not change that.

Because you insisted I called you a jerk, which I didn't, I edited the prior post so as not to offend your tender sensibilities.

[seabeyond]

115. excellent post. clever way to present in this manner.

true gender equality.

good job, thanks

[TexasObserver]

Thanks. I don't admire men who behave like that, and feel the same about women.

There is a reason it's called "middle aged crazy."

As we enter middle age, some cannot face the reality they are getting older, and they seek every way possible to kid themselves when they look in that mirror. Dyed hair, botox, collagen, nips, tucks, eyebrows trimmed to always appear surprised - these are the things we see the middle aged crazy use to kid themselves so they don't have to acknowledge they're really getting older.

It's the cult of youthfulness, and it's worshipped in advertising. It's fool's gold, and every day the person has to lie to himself or herself a little more. By the time they're 60 or 65, they being to look like circus clowns, instead of humans.

It is fear of growing old that drives the compulsion to have sex with partners who have the maturity of one's children. It's not an attractive trait in either gender. It's sad.

[seabeyond]

123. wow

lol

i couldnt have said it better, and hit on every point. i was saying it another way, thru my own perspective of getting older.

i dont want to be told 50 is the new 30 or whatever that crap is. i will take 50 at 50, healthy, fit, content and happy. i am not chasing after or striving for.... anymore. lol

:toast:

[TexasObserver]

127. Thanks. I prefer women and men to look and act their age.

As a man, nothing is more pathetic to me than men who go middle aged crazy. They buy a motorcycle, get a tattoo, maybe a piercing. They get a girlfriend half their age and let her dress them and give them a new haircut. They look like a 50 year old man trying to pass for 25. Their kids hate them, as they should. Their friends find them embarrassing.

I just don't think the female version of that man is an attractive person, either.

A woman over 50 with her natural hair color, her real eyebrows, little or no make up, and natural wrinkles in her face looks much better than any cougar. Sexuality is far more than flashing one's behind in a short skirt, or displaying augmented and spray tanned breasts that say "I'll be your mommy figure."

[Strong Atheist]

119. Cool. Recommended. nt.

[flvegan]

120. Can I have your cougar friends' phone numbers?

What?

[aubergine14]

121. ROFL---I guess I qualify as a cougar IF

you exclude the affluence, predatory nature, and what was the third? Oh, I am not on the "hunt" or "prowl." I look and act younger than I am, but I would be offended by MILF since I am not a mother!:rofl:

Today I was talking to a man almost twenty years my junior and I got the distinct impression that he was subtley hitting on me! Even after I casually slipped in that I lived with a man (after he said he was single). Kind of nice for the old ego...

[BlooInBloo]

122. I'm pro-cougar and pro-milf. One of my better relationships was when I was around 23...

with a 40 year old. Phew!

[rucky]

124. It's funny: My wife and her girlfriends use those terms more than me and my guy friends.

They all think they're MILF-y Cougars. Gotta laugh.

[mitchum]

125. It's just more MARKETING

[seabeyond]

126. exactly what it is. nt

[krabigirl]

131. I don't like the terms, but I do like that *gasp* women over 25 can be considered hot.

Because actually, they are.