I have seen several "I am leaving" or "Disgusted with" threads...

[Rebellious Republican]

I have been reading and posting on DU for just a little while. For those of you who do not understand, we have cycles around here. It is troll season, we have just taken control of the house and senate and it is the campaign kick off season.

In the early days of DU, freeper trolls used to come in here with their guns blazing. They were very blatant and bold about their intent to disrupt these forums. This usually resulted in them being tomb stoned often and early, however they have wised up over the years.

They realized that this practice was not very effective; I have noticed that you very rarely see that tactic being used anymore. Now they post seemingly innocent threads that they know will touch off a flame war.

Yes, there are political operatives that come in here to divide us, so that they may conquer us. Think about it, they are desperate right now; they have lost control and will do what ever is necessary to gain the upper hand.

They are, resourceful, stealthy, conniving and use under the radar techniques. Anyone ever heard of physops? They will employ whatever tactics that they can to disrupt these boards at our most vulnerable times.

I know that there are old timers here that understand what I am saying, these cycles run in peaks and valleys. We will go months without any flame wars, then all of a sudden there is a much increased activity level of flaming going on.

My advice is just do not take the bait, if you read something that sounds controversial, say your piece and move on. Do not get into a debate with someone that you know you will never convince otherwise, just do not keep responding.

Trust me; they love to push your buttons, that’s how they get their jollies. Do not give them that satisfaction, which will really piss them off.

Just food for thought, think about it! :think:

Have a great DU day all,
RR
:toast:

[hippiechick]

1. Political Operatives?

Yes, in the grand scheme of world events, DU is that important. :eyes:



:tinfoilhat:

[Buzz Clik]

2. The KGB posts here regularly.

Just in case...

[Morereason]

39. Sorry, this "troll" thing is DU mcCarthyism

People are expressing legitimate opinions.

Really in my opinion this is about the future of the Democratic party. There is a legitimate discussion that will take place in the next few years that may be somewhat strong, just like our anti-war movement is. But it is important to have. The fate of the world rests on it.

The folks who want to "FRAME" those not in your camp as not "true" Democrats need to cool it! Or we WILL end up splitting. That group has it all backwards. They, are the one's who will cause the break in the party with your intolerance and framing of those who disagree with them.

[laylah]

66. From my experience of the past

6 years posting at DU, those that are "... expressing legitimate opinions" rarely, if ever, disable their profiles. I just sayin'...

Jenn

[Warpy]

4. Er, it's getting to be somewhat important

because a few people out there are starting to realize that if they want to know what the rank and file plus the progressives are thinking and talking about, this is the place to find it. Other left wing blogs tend to be a little more news centered. This one is all over the place, and postings are short enough to be gone through quickly.

Check out Netvocates if you don't believe it.

[NMDemDist2]

6. honestly hippiechick, I don't doubt it

I swear Olbermann gets lots of material from us, we get read on the Randi Rhodes show as well as on right winger radio regularly

if the politicos don't watch us, they are blowing it IMO

DK isn't the only progressive website on the their radar

maybe i do need a tinfoil tiara, but I think not. :shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

7. Reading is one thing. "Operatives" trying subtle means to disrupt?

eh, less likely.

We have plenty of our own who are disruptive as they can be. Spies aren't necessary.

[dogday]

9. I don't know if I would call them spies

more like kids who are making crank calls...

[salin]

19. or fans vs critics of particular candidates

that like to tweak each other - and try to drag the rest of us into it. Very reminiscent of the 04 candidate wars. Just a shame that it is starting so early.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Wait until the 2012 cycle. It will probably kick off in Dec 08

[Rebellious Republican]

16. See my reply #14 to hippiechick N/T

:shrug:

[Rebellious Republican]

14. Guess again......

snip>Can the Internet be saved?BY EDWARD WASSERMAN
[e-mail]
''It is inconceivable that we should allow so great a possibility for service, for news, for entertainment, for education and for vital commercial purposes to be drowned in advertising chatter.'' It was 1922, the subject was the infant medium of radio, the speaker was Herbert Hoover. He was U.S. secretary of commerce, and six years later was elected president. Hoover was old-school Republican, so deferential to business that he's remembered now for refusing to step on the private sector's toes with aggressive public programs that might have halted the slide into the Great Depression.

Yet even Hoover understood that a pristine new technology could be ruined by business-as-usual. His bold talk about keeping ads off the airwaves -- later, as president, he recanted -- is a reminder of the kind of hope new communications technologies inspire. The pioneers often sound more like prophets than profiteers. That changes., <snip


snip>Fertile and receptive

What's at stake here is huge. The Internet is a new world of media, fertile and endlessly receptive to communication needs of all kinds. It could very well become so overwhelmed by commercial and political stratagems, so cluttered and so untrustworthy that it winds up utterly useless for honest communication.

That possibility is not, as Herbert Hoover put it, ''inconceivable.'' It has already happened with local radio -- and it has happened with the postal service, which has become primarily a conduit for junk mail.

The Internet can still be saved. But it won't save itself.

Edward Wasserman is Knight professor of journalism ethics at Washington and Lee University. <snip
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/16315290.htm


snip>MIAMI -- When outraged Republicans raised a ruckus outside the Miami-Dade County elections office last week, some protesters at the door weren't local citizens. They were Capitol Hill aides on all-expenses paid trips, courtesy of the Bush campaign.

Right up front on television images of the event last Wednesday were Thomas Pyle, an aide to GOP Rep. Tom DeLay, and Michael Murphy, who works for a DeLay fund-raising committee. Doug Heye from California Rep. Richard Pombo's office also was in the fray.

Shortly after the door-kicking, window-banging protest, the Miami-Dade canvassing board made a sharp U-turn, suspending a recount that was expected to help Vice President Al Gore chip away at Texas Gov. George W. Bush's lead. Mr. Gore's inability to secure these votes was a key to Mr. Bush's certification as the Florida winner last night. Miami-Dade canvassing-board members, while denying that the crowd cowed them, decided they couldn't complete the count by yesterday's 5 p.m. deadline without using a room that the protesters complained limited public access.<snip
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/mrs_panstreppon/2006/oct/13/sordid_chapter_in_american_history_11_00_republican_thugs_intidmidate_miami_dade_canvassing_boa


Snip>This proves it was not local people who were ignoring the law. They were being whipped up by outsiders," said Ben Kuehne, a Democratic attorney from Miami.

Republicans deny the protest was choreographed. They do acknowledge that a number of Capitol Hill staff were flown in as volunteers, some with their expenses paid.<snip
http://www.sptimes.com/News/112900/Election2000/Decisions__drama_in_M.shtml

:wow:

[SmokingJacket]

26. I doubt Cheney has minions posting here, but...

I'm sure there are interns down the line a bit whose jobs include monitoring "opposition" media. And there are no doubt plenty of unemployed "College Republicans" and the like who think trolling is God's work...

[Joe Chi Minh]

46. If you doubt that, you're not too swift in political matters.

Nice liberal name you've got there. I like it. Trouble is, a lot of the side like to assume those kind of names. Gotta be careful.

[MyNameGoesHere]

63. Probably not

but it makes for some really good headlines I can hear it now "Even the bloggers and liberal websites are not in support of Edwards" probably by one of those right wing political shows that nobody pays attention to.:yoiks:

[Dorian Gray]

69. Hah...

I was thinking.... Political operatives? More like lonely boys sitting in their parents basement, looking for something they find questionably amusing to pass their long and lonely hours.

[zanne]

3. I hear ya'

Good post. It's something we should be made more aware of.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Yep. n/t

[Deja Q]

8. 9 times out of 10.

The 10th will keep on and on and on, even engaging in personal attacks... even using projecting (using a term that fits them on everyone else.) It's almost funny when there's a big pattern of "ignored"s responding to you in your own posts. Yes, I use 'ignore'. And only under very specific circumstances. Those folks operated outside the boundries of the official RULES and as such they went on 'ignore'. And one would think they would eventually have better things to do... but maybe they love me and wish to bed me, I have no clue why they keep responding - they just make themselves look bad. I'm not descending to their infantile level, and in our society the reactionary is far worse than the instigator. And with a list of a dozen or so, I'm not bothering to un-ignore a bunch of people just to see who the toddlers are. To make it short: The hint to those people is - don't bother anymore. It's been how many months now and you still haven't had any responses to your shrill jibes? Keep being snots all you want. One day it'll rebound on you.

Fortunately, and as long as my memory permits, I've had many good discussions with other people. And they, by far, are the majority here.

Personally, I think more people should do a one-up against the trolls that will get the little F'ers out of here for good; using their character flaws as weaknesses. The problem is, it goes back to the instigator/reactionary and it makes us trolls in return as well, albeit in a slightly different form. I've refrained from saying some zingers and Lord knows they deserve every syllable. OTOH, "Suffer the fate of thy neighbor" often renders both people docile. Unfortunately, the other half the time when suffering is made to happen, both sides end up killing each other. :shrug:

But I ramble.

[sufrommich]

10. Or it's just people

posting their opinions and other people disagreeing with them.It's a forum board,that's what happens.

[MGKrebs]

11. That's not to say some of our own don't get pretty obnoxious sometimes.

Some people get so caught up in supporting their candidate that they end up doing hurtful things to others.
We had a primary campaign here in Georgia recently where one Dem basically accused another Dem of being responsible for the deaths of all children in the state while he was head of the Dept. of Human Resources. It was nasty. Had the opposite effect as intended I think, though. But for some (maybe all of us at one time or another), the big picture is obscured by the individual brushstrokes.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

12. There are periods when DU seems to lose a sense of humor.

So I don't visit or post for a little while...I've NEVER done the "That's it, I'm leaving" garbage.

If someone leaves because they disagree, then 1) s/he's really a freeper, 2) it's someone who can't take being disagreed with, or 3) s/he's just a run-of-the-mill troll who isn't getting enough nibbles.

Either way it's fine by me if they leave. I've been here since '03 and I still get pissed off when people take themselves too seriously but still keep coming back because I agree more often than not.

[Clark2008]

15. It could be someone who's fed up with the party.

I know if one particular candidate gets the nomination, I'll leave. Mainly because I DON'T want to break DU rules by not supporting the Democratic nominee.

And, it's only one candidate, so my chances probably will be 10 to 1 he doesn't get it. :)

[BeFree]

18. I know what you mean

If Clark gets nominated this place will disintegrate.

But, thankfully, his chances are about one in a million.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
\/ \/ \/

ya know, it's kinda funny how a bunch of anonymous posters attach themselves much too personally, when the rest of the world is what we need to be personally and emotionally attached to.

I know whereof I speak, and am calling the kettle black, yes.

[Clark2008]

21. Huh?

I didn't mention any candidate by name and I didn't take a cheap shot.

I'll leave quietly and won't make a big deal.

I don't know what you mean.

[Trajan]

44. Funny thing is

I know exactly what candidate you are referring to ....

Why ? ... because you have become well known in these parts for your vicious vendetta against that candidate .... I have been disgusted by it, but I simply write my little post asking that DUers refrain from killing their own, and then I move on ....

IF that one, as of this moment, unnamed candidate DOES win the nomination, I will support him wholeheartedly, as I will support Clark, Vilsack, Richardson, Clinton, Obama, or ANY OTHER Democratic candidate that emerges from the primary season .... I refuse to participate in the degrading threads, other than to let you and others know I dont appreciate your efforts at fomenting disunity ....

I dont support any one candidate, but I do support the Rooseveltian ideals which created the New Deal notions that are currently being destoyed by the party in power .... I find it absurd that anyone here would attack one of those who holds those ideals so closely to his essense, no matter HOW rich he is ....

Knowing what I know about your threads; You will not be missed (by me) if you left .... It will help unify our opposition to the right wing if you do ....

EVERY Democratic candidate gets my support in the general election ... bar none ....

[SmokingJacket]

27. Same here.

There are thousands of DUers, and different people post at different times. It's like "you never step into the same river twice"; you never visit the same DU twice because there are always different people on.

And there are cycles of hysteria -- I like to lay low during those.

But basically this is the best political website on the web, and there's always something interesting being said somewhere, even if I have to wade through people having hissy fits at each other to find it...

[Uben]

13. Drama queens

I have seen hundreds of posts like that over the years. Some people just want attention, any way they can get it. If they want to leave, just leave. We don't need an explanation of your "bitch du jour". If you are truly upset, just say so and chill for a week or two.

Kinda like the "Latest Breaking" titles in GD. Do these people think we are stupid? Or care?
Make your post. If it's worthy, folks will read and respond.

rant/

[geomon666]

17. Who cares? If they want to leave, let them leave.

One person does not make or break the forums. And this egotistical crap fare about pronouncing your departure, "I am Leaving!" My heart bleeds purple piss for you. Get out, just leave.

[TorchTheWitch]

20. Oh rubbish

This "trolls" and stealth freepers and "paid operatives" stuff is mostly crap. The great majority of the time it's either a DUer of long standing that can't bare to have their candidate of choice "maligned" (or are out to bash other candidates) or a relatively new DUer that came here because they support Candidate X and are either out to bash the others while being fiercely defensive of their own. Same crap as last time. What's going on now is NOTHING compared to the primary wars the last go 'round.

More and more new people are going to be coming here now, so we have to get a lot better at alerting on posts, which has been sadly lacking for quite some time. New people see the personal attacks that don't get removed and conclude that it's ok to be obnoxious and offensive even though the rules state otherwise.

As for the "I'm fed up and leaving" threads... woopdeefreakindoo... don't let the door whack you in the ass on the way out. If you want to leave just leave. Making an announcement about it is just begging for attention... "boo hoo, everyone is being mean"... tough. Politics is ugly. It should be. It's our JOB to hold every candidate's feet to the fire and make damn sure they're worthy of our votes. The whole reason we are where we are today is because we haven't done it enough over the years and given a pass on totally unworthy candidates to lead us.

Our votes are the ONLY amunition we have, and this is the one election we can't afford to toss it away. LOOK at where we are. This country is hanging on the thin edge, and 2012 will be too late.

[rman]

22. We're all DUers, including the trolls

A DUer is someone who posts on DU. Anyone can post on DU.

Reportedly some individuals brag on a certain other website about their being a "mole" on DU.

[TorchTheWitch]

25. What's your point?

We identify Freepers as the whackjob rethugs on that unmentionable site not because they post there but because of who they are. There's plently of DU moles there as well... they aren't Freeps, they're DU moles. Same applies here. Freepers trolling here aren't DUer's, they're Freep trolls.

Why does this even need to be explained, and what does it have to do with anything I said?

[rman]

64. You did say freeper trolls etc is mostly crap,

But it seems you have since changed you opinion, saying that there are in fact freeper trolls on DU.

"Freepers trolling here aren't DUer's, they're Freep trolls."

[Pathwalker]

35. Seventhson and Carlos J. Jacinto would agree with you,

but they're no longer here. For a reason.

[sandnsea]

38. There ARE paid operatives

Do you have a blog? How much traffic does it get? I guarantee you, you get a blog that starts to get some attention, you WILL have an assigned right wing troll. Your blog gets more popular, you will start to have disruptive trolls. There will come a point where it will be difficult to tell where honest debate ends and paid trolling begins. It's a FACT. No, I don't have a link, but anybody who has been involved in blogging and forums at any depth, knows it to be true.

[Anita Garcia]

40. It is the vote that counts and the feet on the street

You are correct.
If you feel like leaving, good by.
If you feel like staying, hello.
If you feel like reading, here's DU.
Us and them is a fluid thing.

[Rebellious Republican]

47. Absolutely, thats what I'm talkin' about, excellent post Anita Garcia

:applause:

[jarab]

61. Good post. (nt)

...O...

[Berry Cool]

23. On the rest of the Internets, such declarations are known as "suicide notes."

They usually run along the lines of "I'm leaving because the environment here SUCKS and everyone SUCKS, and boy, are all of YOU gonna MISS my wonderful self."

The perpetrator can frequently be counted upon to return in lurk mode to see how many people express anger and upset with those they believe to have been guilty of "chasing him/her away and spoiling it for all of us who enjoyed him/her." It affords much the same pleasure as being able to witness one's own funeral, but most people don't get to do that, so this is the next best thing.

The maturity level of the departer is usually right about there with that of the teen who contemplates (but never commits) suicide because "THEN they'll all be sorry."

Usually the best thing to do if you get fed up with any place you no longer enjoy hanging out is to just disappear and cool off for a while. If the problem is you, it will improve by your getting away from the environment and developing some perspective. If the problem is others, it may change when those others change/leave/get kicked out. If it's a combination of both, both things may improve.

[Rebellious Republican]

24. Well said, I agree with that statement BerryBush.

I also agree that there are many DU'ers that have some occasional clashes over party philosophy. I also agree with those that say "get over it" or "just leave". Politics can be ugly, we need to have a thick skin if we are to involve ourselves in debate. I also believe some do truly become frustrated by allot of the negative posting. Which I do attribute to trolls.

:toast:

[sellitman]

29. I "cooled off" for awhile back in 2006

I didn't announce it because nobody in their right mind would care except me. Those who do "announce" are not really pissed off...they are just crying out for attention. If DU pisses you off just go quietly and stay away....or get over it.

[dalaigh lllama]

28. I find those threads puzzling, myself

No one has ever forced me to read certain threads, or respond to obnoxious posters. I've never put anyone on ignore -- I just don't read 'em. With over 100,000 DUers here, it would be unrealistic to imagine we'd all hold hands singing kumbayah.

Leaving DU because someone was "mean" would be like moving to a different town because someone butted in line at the local grocery store -- just doesn't make sense.

[Anita Garcia]

41. yes

[Rebellious Republican]

49. Bingo, I agree with your sentiments, and I have never put anyone

on ignore either. I have often found that some posters that may irratated me, caused me to stop, reflect and see a differant perspective. I have also found myself agreeing with them on other subjects later.

:thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

30. RR, you missed the ones who come here for a goal...

a single goal. Maybe a candidate, maybe a cause, but some are not that hard to spot. They often wait until they get high counts, over 1000, and let loose.

Nice post RR. Recommended.

[Rebellious Republican]

50. Thanks MF, its always good to here from you......

and the way, how is your flame retardant suit holding up? You little rebel rouser you.:evilgrin:

[Jade Fox]

32. It's interesting to see how many people think DU isn't that important..

that we would rate serious attempts to disrupt us. We ARE that important, and it's a little sad that many don't believe that.

The history of government surveillance and infiltration of lefty groups, going all the way back to the McCarthy era (and probably further), reveals a frequent focus on fairly small, marginal organizations. These government spooks have very little judgment about the relative power of those whose politics they have demonized.

However, I would not categorize DU as a marginal group. We have, after all, drawn the attention of Elizabeth Edwards, Cindy Sheehan, one member of the Kerry family (if memory serves), and others.

We should stop underestimating our influence.

[Change has come]

42. Well said

DU is also an excellent source of news that's not reported by the corporate media. How many people have stumbled upon DU and found out how messed up this Government is? If these people stick around, they are better informed and less likely to vote for these republic corporatist ghouls. :bounce:

Why would somebody want to disrupt that? :shrug:

[Kurovski]

45. And Rush Limbaugh LOVES us.

He tells all his pals who listen to his show about us every now and again.

[Rebellious Republican]

51. Not to mention that we have been mentioned by many national

mainstream media sources.

:kick:

[Kurovski]

58. NYT, Chicago Sun-Times, WSJ are some I recall.

[redqueen]

70. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[kentuck]

33. I think you are right, RR

Now, they seem to build up a respectable number of posts before they venture into GD or GDP...After all, if someone has 1000 posts, they must have been scrutinized thoroughly?

[Rebellious Republican]

52. I tink you are on to something there kentuk. N/T

:toast:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Wait... Bbbbut What About This Thread. Is It Safe? Or Is It One Of The THEM! Must. Question.

everything. Political. Operatives. Are. Amongst. Us.

:yoiks:

:rofl:

(don't get mad. Just bein silly)

[Rebellious Republican]

53. Shhh, don't tell anyone, my secret is out now!

:toast:

[porphyrian]

36. A lot of people are putting a lot of effort into creating cliques and excluding groups of members...

...based on personal judgments and labeling.

[BlooInBloo]

37. The entrenched term is "GBCW" (Goobye Cruel World) threads. WATBs love melodrama.

[Kurovski]

43. Ah, Block Feature, we hardly knew ye.

*sigh*

By the way, it is not a secret that boards are sometimes used to shape opinion on products by PAID individuals, or individuals with an economic "conflict of interest".

Products, people, parties, voting systems, and what-have-you.

It is a fact of internet life.

[Rebellious Republican]

54. Very astute assessment Kurovski.........

See my reply #14 on this thread.

:toast:

[Kurovski]

59. I had seen that post...

there were some threads here at DU in the past about companies that use internet chatrooms and boards for paid promotion under the guise of "casual posters".

I think the film "Snakes on a Plane" used a wide-reaching internet campign prior to its opening.

To you, RR!:toast::hi:

[Texasgal]

48. Why is it so difficult for people to comprehend

that are people on this board that think differently?

These are not trolls... This is the Democratic party.

The troll thing is just an excuse to pardon people from certain behaviors or beliefs.

Just my opinion.

[Quixote1818]

57. Thats what I just said. Thanks!

[Quixote1818]

55. Umm, I thought debate was a good thing

I haven't seen much of a problem with trolls. I know the people who have started the debate on Edwards house are LONG time DUers and I know for a fact they are STRONG democrats with strong opinions.

I personally think a good hearty debate is the greatest thing about DU and I hope people will continue to start important debates to keep our values in check. If we are all agreeing then something is wrong.

Sorry, just don't see a problem.

[Kurovski]

67. It is indeed a good thing. the problem might be when

we have 40-60 threads critical of a Dem popping up on the board, crowding out what is an historic event (the protests) that also happen to be immensely anti-war and anti-Bush administration.

You have to wonder.

We are often easily led by our emotions and the "Big House" threads were coming fast and furious. Many of them would have been better as replies to other threads. Real Dems play their part, and disruptors do as well. The disruptors know how to play us.

Any one new to DU coming to find info on the world-wide protests would have to wonder about exactly what DU's focus is.

There is debate, and then there is the game some play, and play for keeps. Disruptors are not always figments of over-heated imaginations.

Forewarned is fore-armed. As has already been suggested, have your say and move on. Focus, don't f**k us. I think it's something that most get the hang of after a few years of seeing disruptors in action. I have to remind myself to be cautious, but you do eventually develop an alarm system to help discern between dissent and disruption.

And it ain't 100% by any means, :-) hmmm, take the OP for instance...
just KIDDING Rebellious Republican, just kidding!! :D::toast:

[cadmium]

56. yes I've seen it here and a couple other boards

Sometimes anyone can unintentionally disrupt a thread by posting impulsively - Ive done it a few times myself. When you someone pushing buttons usually adding little meaningful to the discussion, repeatedly it should raise one's troll antennae.

[omega minimo]

60. There's plenty more who don't announce but have seen the bar lowered lately.

The paranoid preemptive strike against the Block function, the flood of big house posts preempting an enormous newsweek and massive national demonstrations....


When these discussions come up, so many just blow off the supposed tone set in the DU "Who we are" and the Rules-- about how we treat each other. As it gets worse in these "cycles" mostly people are told to buck up and '"deal with it" instead of being reminded that we could start treating each other well instead of always thinking the worst-- and being prouder of the right to be assholes (which isn't valid anyway) than trying to get along long enough to actually DO something.


The truth is that the level of disrespect that's considered "normal" on DU provides cover for trolls and disruptors. It would be easier to get rid of them otherwise.

[Kurovski]

68. "...preemptive strike against the Block function"

I absolutely believe that for at least a handful of individuals, the block function would have eventually spelled the end of their paychecks or anti-Dem political work. at least here at DU. I do understand why it went away, but I still miss it. The judicious and cautious use of the feature might have greatly improved DU. I understand that the risk was perhaps to great that the feature would be mis-used.

Call me paranoid, call me goofy, just don't call me late to cocktail hour.

[Evergreen Emerald]

62. HOUSE!

bugga-bugga

[RiverStone]

65. Well the good news is....

Even with all the flaming on houses, Hillary, smoking, etc....

We so kicked the rethugs ass last November, that not ONE DEM incumbent lost from sea to sea.

Freeper trolls will keep coming, though I'm very hopeful that when the rubber meets the road in the final months before Nov 08, we will come together - in a BIG wonderful way like we did during the last election!

There are way to many DEM cooks in the Presidential kitchen right now - when things thin out, so will subjects that led to flame wars -IMHO.

Peace~ :)