Air France abandons search for 'black boxes' from Airbus crash

[Baclava]

Air France 'black box' hunt ends

France's accident investigation agency has abandoned a search for the 'black boxes' from the Air France passenger jet that crashed in the Atlantic Ocean.

A second phase to locate the black boxes and the wreckage began at the end of July, with submarines working for the French Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis (BEA) for Civil Aviation Safety sweeping the site with sonar.

"The search having failed to locate the wreck of the aircraft, the BEA will gather an international team of investigators and experts in the coming weeks to exploit the data gathered with a view to launching a third search phase, and to determine its modalities and means," the agency said in a statement on Thursday.

The BEA warned that the task of finding the flight recorders was formidable after debris was found scattered across a remote area some 1,000km (600 miles) off the Brazilian coast. The ocean floor at this point can reach a depth of 3,500m (11,500ft).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8212569.stm

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(Didn't see this posted anywhere)

I had a feeling this would happen.

No matter how "advanced" we think we are - the ocean is still a big place.

[MrModerate]

1. I know it's irrational . . . but I've always hated Airbuses . . .

Mostly because of the way they're generally fitted out, but also because my brother-in-law, an airline pilot, hates them too because he considers them oversophisticated to the point of unflyability.

Not knowing why this particular craft crashed doesn't make me feel any better.

[Baclava]

6. The Airbus is a fly by wire plane

In other words, when there is a critical event, the system defaults to automated control by computer and pilots cannot revert to manual control. (the Airbus computer knows better than the pilot)

Yeah - pilots make mistakes, but flight computers have problems too, like software glitches, developing electrical issues, or getting sent bad sensor information which it's programming interpets the wrong way. It is a bit scary when you think about it.

[ParkieDem]

15. Most new Boeing planes are fly-by-wire too

The 777, the new 787, and I believe the next-generation 737s are all fly-by-wire.

[Angleae]

17. Not 737 (any model), they still have cables.

I have to work on them (the planes, not the control cables).

[Pangolin2]

20. A very old airplane joke about the computer-flown maiden flight

it takes off and the PA system comes on
"Welcome aboard flight One. There are no pilots, everything is operated by the Mark 5 computer. We are now at 30 thousand feet enroute to New York so relax, nothing can go wrong
go wrong
go wrong
go wrong
go wrong....

[closeupready]

11. To me, they've always seemed a bit like oversized toys.

That may be an extreme oversimplification, but that's the truth.

[moggie]

2. Why aren't flight recorders fitted with a flotation device?

Or would that make them harder to find, given that they'd drift from the crash site? Either way, it's going to be difficult once the power to the beacon runs out, but which would you prefer: searching for a bright yellow floating object, or searching the dark ocean floor several kilometres down?

[Statistical]

4. The flight recorder is attached to the aircraft BUT...

there is a plan to update the black boxes.

Instead of 2 separate black boxes: flight data + cockpit voice the new system would have all functions on one box.

Then there would be 2 separate identical boxes. The system will have one box stay with the airframe and the other be ejected in a crash. The ejected box will have parachute and floatation device.

Ironically this has been in the works some time and has nothing to do with losing the box due to depth (most crashes are inland or in shallow water).

The number one cause for a lost or unreadable black box is crushing. The aircraft simply crushes the box. The design of the new system is with one box easy to find on the aircraft and a second identical box thrown away from the aircraft the likelyhood that both would be unreadable is reduced.

[moggie]

5. Thanks, that makes sense n/t

[Milspec]

14. Actually the best answer is

date streaming real time flight date transmission. Just around the corner according to a piece I read in Flying Magazine this month.

[ParkieDem]

16. Really?

I heard that current ATC systems and air-to-ground systems have nowhere near the bandwidth for that kind of data transfer. Can you post a link to the article?

[Statistical]

19. Some streaming is already done (or more correctly store and burst recording).

To stream everything recorded on both the flight data recorder, cockpit voice recorder, and the future cockpit video recorder requires about 128Mbps per second. Figure there are at any particular time 30,000 aircraft in the air around the world and considering the majority of the planet is ocean it would need to be satellite based.

A real time, 100% coverage, world based recording system would be the largest single purpose telecom network and would require dozens of sats. Unless you want a $150 per ticket "recording charge" on all flights it is a dead end.

No matter how fast networks get there is a limit on how much bandwidth a sat can have per pound. Considering the lift costs alone are about $20,000 per pound to low earth orbit sat based communication will never be dramatically cheaper than it is today.

Of course even if such system was built at massive cost and ongoing expense mother nature still wins. Even notice you lose sat TV coverage in bad rain. Most aircraft crashes are in bad weather. Bad weather = no signal so the most critical (last few minutes) data is lost.

[Angleae]

18. Don't hold your breath on getting the new system.

It would cost a ton of money to do, not to mention the FAA isn't exactly a speedy organization when mandating changes. We're still installing systems that were mandatated due to TWA 800.

[XemaSab]

3. Bummer

:(

[Blue_Tires]

7. i didn't have any real hope of recovery from water that deep...

[Baclava]

9. I don't think it's the depth so much as the topography

Like an Andes mountain range - underwater.

[Blue_Tires]

10. very true...

[itsrobert]

8. More likely they were instructed to not find it

Europe has a big stake in Airbus, they are afraid of the truth.

[anigbrowl]

12. yeah sure...everything's a conspiracy

:eyes:

[Baclava]

13. I'd holding out for the "Shot down by a UFO" theory

And their underwater base near where the wreckage is located is being concelaed with an energy dampening field, so of course the locator beacons on the black boxes would be hidden too.

[Pangolin2]

21. You forgot the icon

:eyes: