Michiganders trapped under pressure of debt collectors

[Bozita]

I've often wondered about the folks who work for these collection companies.


http://www.freep.com/article/20090828/NEWS06/908280382/?imw=Y&template=fullarticle

POSTED: AUG. 28, 2009
Michiganders trapped under pressure of debt collectors
BY DAVID ASHENFELTER
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER


After Jessica Wilson failed to pay $500 to a Flint hospital for treating her broken ankle last year, the bill collectors started calling.

“They would call eight, nine, 10 times a day,” the unemployed 21-year-old Flint woman said, referring to employees of Merchants & Medical Credit Corp. of Flint. She said she had lost her job and couldn’t pay.

She said a collector named Shaw threatened to have her arrested April 17 if she didn’t pay $200 by the end of the day.

“I was crying hysterically,” said Wilson, who sued to halt the alleged harassment. “He made me think the FBI was going to take me away.”

The company wouldn’t comment on the episode.

But cases like Wilson’s have become all too familiar as hard economic times have caused many people to miss payments.

more....

[derby378]

1. Yet another reason for healthcare reform

Not to mention a robust jobs creation program. Isn't our national unemployment level at 16% now?

[xchrom]

2. stories like this put my blood on the boil.

we have lost our minds on debt collection in this country.

[ejpoeta]

3. people need to know their rights!! first and foremost, ensure that the people collecting

a debt have any right to collect anything... validate validate!! never admit to owing anything either... make sure these people have any right to try to get money from you. secondly... if you don't have money, then you don't have money. these 3rd party dirtbags buy a lot of debt for pennies on the dollar and then try to collect a lot more than the original debt even was. they cannot threaten people... they cannot harrass you. you have the right to tell them any correspondence has to be through the mail if you want. these people count on people who don't know that they have rights and that these jerks can't do this to them. watch 'maxed out'... highly recommended.

[prolesunited]

5. Here's a handy guide on fair practices and how people can stop abuse

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre18.shtm

[pipi_k]

15. Excellent point!

Back in 2005 I was being harassed for a debt by someone to whom I did NOT owe money.

The alleged "debt" also turned out to be nearly 20 years old and had been resolved by the appropriate company years earlier.

These scumbag Zombie Debt collectors were trying to soak me for like 300% above what the original debt had been.

I quickly went online and found out what my rights were and how to handle these bloodsuckers. I got a couple of Attorneys General involved, and within a few months it ended because these people could not provide proof that I owed them the money.

But people should NEVER NEVER NEVER acknowledge any debt, even if they think they might owe someone some money. Make the people claiming the debt PROVE that the debt is valid before doing anything at all.

[prolesunited]

4. What they are doing is ILLEGAL

and if the debtors can document the instances, they can sue them.

[wroberts189]

7. They make a phone recording device at radio shack.

Its cheap and uses a suction cup.


I urge everyone that they have one if they are subject to these calls.

[pipi_k]

10. People need to know the laws in their states, though...

Here in Mass, it's illegal to tape someone on the phone without that person's knowledge.

As long as you inform the other party s/he is being recorded (and the consent is recorded) then there shouldn't be a problem.

[wroberts189]

13. You ever watch movies? Not saying this is how it goes but...

in a law office...

Lawyer1 - Your client broke multiple laws and is denying it.

Lawyer2- prove it.


L1- plays tape

L2 - that tape is illegal. Its not admissible (maybe)

L1 - It still proves your client is a total liar and guilty of fraud and subjects them to much higher penalties. You still want to lie to the court with this tape existing legal or not? My client is willing to plead guilty to the taping.

L2 - Lets go have some lunch and settle this without a judge.

L1 - I knew you would come around. How about a swing by the golf course after?

L2- deal.

[pipi_k]

16. There's no need, in many cases, to hire a lawyer, so forget that scenario

It can all be handled effectively by contacting the appropriate States Attorney(s) General, like I did.


Anyway...here is the law in Massachusetts:



Massachusetts

Massachusetts requires consent of al parties unless another exception applies (Massachusetts Gen. Laws Ann. ch. 272, Sec. 99). Telephone equipment, which is furnished to a phone company subscriber and used in the ordinary course of business, is excluded from the definition of unlawful interception devices (Id. at 99(B)(3)). Office intercommunication systems used in the ordinary course of business are similarly exempt (Id. at 99(D)(1)(b)). The criminal penalty is a fine of up to $10,000, imprisonment for up to five years, or both. In civil litigation, an injured party may recover actual and punitive damages as well as costs and fees. It is a separate violation to divulge or use the information garnered through unlawful interception and an additional penalty of up to two years in prison or $5,000 may be imposed on this count.




Some states are more lenient, yes...but people should always check first, because doing something illegal in order to prove that someone else did something illegal is not generally looked upon favorably in the courts.

[wroberts189]

18. Good info... Is that from MA or could one find CT info there? thx nt

[pipi_k]

22. Here's the rest of the site...

Looks like CT has a similar deal...


http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm

[Bozita]

23. Terrific quickie resource! Thank you for posting it.

[wroberts189]

24. Thanks... nt

[Statistical]

25. Only in the movies.

An illegal tape is not admissable. Nobody (in courtroom) will ever even know it exists.

From a legal standpoint it might as well be a blank tape.

[jayfish]

17. For $1,000...

I'm sure the collectors will continue take their chances.

Jay

[prolesunited]

20. Agreed

The fine really needs to be increased to curb abuses.

[wroberts189]

6. Once I bought a new cell phone....

Despite a 99.9 % perfect credit history some company started calling me thinking I was someone else.

I told them three times to stop calling me they had the wrong guy ... I was furious. I demanded they stop calling me. They were interrupting me and calling a line I only use for emergencies.

So they called the state police on me. (We have no local here) Claimed I made death threats. (I was very mad but all I demanded was the calls stop and they would not agree)

A state cop comes in on the line (they called him) ... told me to stop calling them and that they had made that complaint. Claimed they had a recording.

I told him it was a total lie. I think he believed them over me but never wanted or asked to hear my side.

I was so upset I went to the state police barracks. Someone was going to hear my side. They told from a speaker me to go home (no one in front office) . I had no need to be there. No paperwork was filed.

I told them he made a false report. They repeated I should go home.

I went home. Called sprint and had them change my number.

Sprint then denied my rebate because the number did not match my original. A few more calls and months later I finally got it.

These pond scum suckers need to be reigned in. They are are getting away with stuff they never did before.

[ejpoeta]

8. also they cannot make you incur expenses (ie: calling a cell phone).

[wroberts189]

14. Problem is its small claims court and a waste of time.

The court fees will be higher. As one who has seen judges ignore plain English law in rulings there are no guarantees either.

At best you get a check for a couple bucks... if they pay.

Perhaps they know this.


Seems all you can do these days is add your name to your states AG consumer complaint list.

[WI_DEM]

9. By law if you tell a debt collector not to call you--they can't.

[pipi_k]

11. Not that it would stop the calls, but

this is where caller ID and an answering machine come in handy.


:evilgrin:

[juno jones]

12. The only debt collector I've ever known

was a faucking piece of work that let his 9 mo. old rottweiler die of dehydration in his parents backyard after their house was vacated due to a fire.

When I see 'debt collector', I think of that prick. It's a sociopath's profession, and one we need to get rid of.

[SoCalDem]

19. People who are truly destitute should file for bankruptcy

That's about the ONLY way the collectors can legally be forced to stop calling..

These people BUY the debt from another, for pennies on the dollar, and the only way THEY get their money's worth is to collect more than they paid for that debt.

I am surprised that some legal aid group has not already swooped into Michigan to help these people file for bankruptcy. Once your credit is ruined by non-payment of debt, whatever stigma is left by filiing bankruptcy, has to be minimal, and it would allow people to truly start over.

[wroberts189]

21. You make a good point..

Once your credit is bad its bad. Bankruptcy can then be used as leverage or at best a way out if your willing to let go of most.


They wrote the law but when they wrote it they thought they could bleed blood from stones.

[dysfunctional press]

26. i was a bill collector back in the early 80's...it was gruesome.

i was collecting on visa cards that were issued by the bank i was working for- so it was considered 'first-person' collections, as we were collecting on our own accounts- so most of the restrictions put on bill collectors didn't apply.
our department was also responsible for doing the repo work on defaulted car loans, and two of the people in our department lived in houses foreclosed by the bank, in order to fix them up to sell them.

a lot of our accounts were people who worked at Caterpillar plants around noth/central illinois, and they were in the midst of a prolonged strike. i had A LOT of men break down crying over the phone in regard to their debts.

i finally quit the job after about seven months, because of how stressful and emotionally draining it was- i'm just not cut out for the work.

[SmileyRose]

27. i can prove it doesn't have to be that way

The business I work for sells primarily to private individuals who have their own business. Since I took over collections 3 months ago, I have moved our past due percentage from 70% of the AR overdue to 40% overdue. Some have $100,000 or more, more than a year past due - and shockingly our worst are not the individuals, but the larger corporate entities we sell to.

I have cut our past due accounts in half by being nice. By telling them we value their business and when this is all over and they dig their way back out we will all need each other - and working out payment plans with them. I have only had to sell 2 people out to 3rd party. One because they asked me to, they were getting ready to declare bankruptcy and she knew we'd get at least something by selling the debt. She also shipped back our products that had not sold yet. Why? Because we were nice to her in a hell of a time. The other I sold off was because he was a fucking fuck who deliberately took product he could not pay for and then lied his ass off claiming he never ordered it and never received it. We took our 20 cents on the dollar and let the REAL collectors have him for lunch.


I can't imagine collecting from the public is much different than what I do. In the middle of everyone being meaner than crap - if a collector just decides to be nice - take the time to let the person cry on their shoulder. Work out a pay plan they can afford. These people won't forget you when they are back in the financial health. Sure, you may not get every dime they owe, but you will likely get more than you would under bankruptcy or any other means. And in the long run you get the loyalty of a lifelong customer, who will eventually give you more profits than being mean would have. Not to mention the good PR.

[dysfunctional press]

28. not all situations are the same, so it really doesn't prove anything...

when a person absolutely has no way to pay, they get distraught- i had two people that were crying and seriously talking suicide- how many businesses do that?

btw- i never said that we were verbally abusive to any of our clients- we weren't.

[Skittles]

29. I tell people who cannot pay big bills to send something

even if it's five bucks - I once paid off a bill saying MUST PAY $350 BUCKS IN FULL by sending them 20 bucks a pop - every time I'd get the next bill, less 20 bucks saying MUST BE PAID IN FULL - this went on until it was zero - and they never called me.