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I'm going nuts wondering why Fitz is not going for violations of the Espionage Act.

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xkenx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 02:22 PM
Original message
I'm going nuts wondering why Fitz is not going for violations of the Espionage Act.
If it wasn't clear before, it's obvious now what was going on within Bushco in the outing of Valerie Plame. In the orchestrated effort to destroy Joe Wilson, they blew the cover of a CIA operative who just happened to be working on WMD vis a vis Iran. What could be more relevant?
Long ago in a previous life, I worked for a defense contractor. And this was before the stronger Espionage Act. The laws that they drummed into us were these---violate them and you would be in the slammer.
1. TO DISSEMINATE CLASSIFIED INFORMATION TO ANYONE, YOU HAD TO FIRST DETERMINE THAT THE POTENTIAL RECIPIENT HAD BOTH THE REQUISITE SECURITY CLEARANCE AND HAD A NEED TO KNOW THE INFORMATION.
2. TO RECEIVE CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, YOU HAD TO HAVE THE REQUISITE SECURITY CLEARANCE AND A NEED TO KNOW THAT MATERIAL.

What could be plainer? Nothing has changed. Everyone around Cheney and various places in the CIA and White House did their treasonous deeds. Where is the accountability, and why is Fitzgerald not pursuing this? And the defense, "Duh, I slipped up" doesn't cut it. What am I missing here?
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hard proof.
For instance, Cheney leaking Plame's name to Libby obviously isn't an Espionage Act crime. Why? Libby had the proper clearances.

The accountability requires someone like Libby flipping. The perjury and obstruction can be proved for sure; Espionage Act material depends on a harder, stronger case.

Fitzgerald is pounding on the option that allows him to show the least cards and get the maximum percentile chance of conviction in his attempt to pound the door open to whatever other misdeeds may be prosecuted later.
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xkenx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I claim Libby did not have a need to know.
Cheney leaking Plame to Libby was a political move to attack Joe Wilson; nothing to do with disseminating classified information to someone who needed to know that information for their work. Here is an article by former Federal Prosecutor Elizabeht de la Vega on this:

Published on Friday, August 12, 2005 by TomDispatch.com
How to Prosecute the Plame Case
by Elizabeth de la Vega
Pundits right, left, and center have reached a rare unanimous verdict about one aspect of the grand jury investigation into the Valerie Plame leak: They've decided that no charges can be brought under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, because it imposes an impossibly high standard for proof of intent. Typically, writing for Slate on July 19th, Christopher Hitchens described the 1982 Act as a "silly law" that requires that "you knowingly wish to expose the cover of a CIA officer who you understand may be harmed as a result." Similarly, columnist Richard Cohen, in the July 14 Washington Post, said he thought Rove was a "political opportunist, not a traitor" and that he didn't think Rove "specifically intended to blow the cover of a CIA agent." Such examples could be multiplied many times over.

Shocking as it may seem, however, the pundits are wrong; and their casual summaries of the requirements of the 1982 statute betray a fundamental misunderstanding regarding proof of criminal intent.

Do you have to intend to harm a CIA agent or jeopardize national security in order to violate the Intelligence Identities Protection Act? The answer is no.

Before presenting any case, a prosecutor like Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald in the Plame case has to figure out "the elements of the crime"; in other words, the factors he has to prove under whatever statute he is considering. If a grand jury finds probable cause to believe that each element has been proved, it may then return an indictment. At trial, the judge instructs the jury about these same elements. Parties can argue about whether the elements have been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, but neither side can add, delete, or modify the elements even slightly to suit their arguments.

Why can't you change the elements? Because they come from the exact wording of the statute. This then is what the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 says:


"Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to received classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the U.S. is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent‘s intelligence relationship to the U.S. ."
To figure out the elements that must be proved, you simply break this run-on sentence into subparts in the following manner:

A defendant must:

(1) have authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent;

(2) "intentionally disclose" the information;

(3) disclose it to one not authorized to receive classified information;

(4) know the information he is disclosing identifies the covert agent; and

(5) know that the U.S. is taking affirmative measures to conceal the covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States.

Proof of these five elements -- and no others -- is what's required under the 1982 legislation.

So what, exactly, does the prosecutor have to prove about the defendant's state of mind under this law? Element 2 says the defendant must "intentionally disclose" the information. To determine what "intentionally disclose" means, you must follow some basic rules of statutory construction. First, you look to see if the word is specifically defined within the statute itself. For example, the term "disclosed" is defined in the Act to mean "communicate, provide, impart, transmit, transfer, convey, publish or otherwise make available."

The word "intentionally" is not defined in the statute, so you have to turn to the second rule of statutory construction, which is to see if it is defined or interpreted in applicable case law. There is little case law on the statute itself. But there's a wealth of case law interpreting the term "intentionally," because it is a term of art found in nearly every criminal statute. Its meaning is well-established and straightforward. It simply means "on purpose, not by mistake or accident." So If someone runs off the bus and accidentally leaves behind papers that expose an undercover CIA agent's identity, no crime has been committed because Element 2 can't be proven. On the other hand, if someone were speaking purposefully, as opposed to, say, drunkenly popping off at a bar, Element 2 would be satisfied.

Nowhere does this statute require proof that the defendant "wished to harm" an undercover agent or jeopardize national security. Why someone disclosed the information -- whether to prevent the publication of a story or to harm the U.S. -- is an issue of motive, not intent.

Merely semantics, you say? In criminal law, it's nonetheless a key distinction. Motive is why someone acts; intent is the person's purposefulness while doing so. If you accidentally take home your neighbor's Gucci bag from the block party, there‘s no crime because you didn‘t act intentionally. (You do have to give it back, though.) If you grab your neighbor‘s bag on purpose, you‘ve acted intentionally and you could be guilty of theft. It matters not a whit whether your motive was to get revenge on your neighbor for making too much noise or to get extra cash to hand out to the poor. Evidence of a bad motive is usually admitted as background in the proof of a criminal case, but it is almost never an element of the crime; and evidence of a good motive is usually not a defense once the intent specified in the statute is proven.

The other elements that relate to state of mind are Elements 4 and 5. To prove a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the prosecutor has to prove that the defendant knew the information he or she was disclosing "identifies" the covert agent and that the government was taking affirmative measures to conceal that agent's intelligence relationship to the U.S. Both of these elements relate only to what the leaker knows; they don't require that he convey all of this knowledge to the unauthorized leakee.

What then does "identify" mean in this statute? Well, there is no specific definition and no case law to look to. So you turn to the third rule of statutory construction, which simply says that you apply the everyday meaning of the word. Perhaps in a through-the-looking-glass world someone could decree that to identify means to "name" and nothing else, but the statute doesn't say that; nor is that how ordinary people would use the word. There are obviously myriad ways to identify a person besides naming them, but unless a man were a polygamist, a reference to his wife -- as in Karl Rove's identification of "Wilson's wife" in his conversation with Time reporter Matt Cooper -- would certainly suffice to direct the listener to a single, specific person.

How does all of this play out in the context of the ongoing grand jury investigation into the Valerie Plame leak?

None of us can presume to know the universe of facts so far uncovered in the investigation. On the contrary, at the risk of sounding like Donald Rumsfeld, we can be quite sure that there is much that we do not know, and that some of what we think we know is surely wrong; nor can we presume to know the workings of Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's mind. It would then be presumptuous to declare that the Intelligence Identities Protection Act is definitely still under consideration in the grand jury proceeding. But it would be no less presumptuous -- and illogical -- to declare that it is not under consideration, especially since that judgment is based on mistaken assumptions about the requirements of the law. (Interestingly, with each new commentary in the press or on TV, the statute only seems to get harder to prove.)

It is also worth remembering that prosecutors analyze evidence with a view towards presenting it in a trial, and even in the post 9-11 world, trials are not like talk shows. The parties at a trial do not hurl scattershot attacks as if they were partisan guests in the drive-by shoutings that have become the stuff of so many news programs. In a trial, both sides present evidence according to established rules that are meant to weed out rumor and opinion. Almost inevitably, over the weeks if not months of a trial, evidence that may appear persuasive on a TV show, but is actually false or misleading, loses sway when viewed in the context of the larger picture.

In painting that picture, the prosecution is not required to present its evidence so narrowly as to lose the context of the alleged crime. Right now, it's as if, when it comes to the Plame case, most of us are in the front rows of a movie theater and have no way of fully seeing what's on screen. Away from the daily drumbeat of news, rumor, and self-interested leaks, however, the picture may make a lot more (and different) sense. Within limits, the law allows the prosecution to prove its case with the wide screen that's necessary for a clearer view.

If the prosecution were attempting to prove that Karl Rove's July 11, 2003 conversation with Time's Matt Cooper violated the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, for example, it would obviously present Cooper's testimony about the conversation, and possibly the notes and e-mails that documented it. Since criminal law allows a jury to use common sense to draw reasonable inferences from the facts presented, a prosecutor could then argue that Cooper's testimony goes a long way towards proving all of the elements of the crime. (A prerequisite for any violation would, of course, be proof that Joseph Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was indeed a covert agent, but as former State Department counterterrorism expert Larry Johnson's July 22 congressional testimony makes clear, there is abundant proof of that fact.)

When it comes to the Cooper-Rove conversation, a prosecutor would assumedly argue, first, that there's no doubt Karl Rove provided information to Cooper intentionally; that is, not by mistake or accident. It strains credulity to suggest that a seasoned political operator like Rove ever says anything to a reporter that is not calculated, and Rove's purposefulness can also be seen in the details of the call. Rove knew he was talking to a reporter, not a person authorized to receive classified information. Since Cooper called Rove and was put through only after the call was screened by a secretary, we can infer that Rove made a conscious choice to speak with him. Cooper also began the call by identifying himself. Finally, Rove provided information on "deep background," a term of art which, to a reporter, means that the information can be used but the source cannot be identified. This fact alone precludes a finding that Rove was speaking accidentally or by mistake.

In addition, the prosecution would likely argue that there's no real issue on the question of whether Rove "disclosed" information. Cooper says that Rove told him Wilson's wife was a CIA agent who worked on weapons of mass destruction and that it was she, not George Tenet or Dick Cheney who was responsible for sending Wilson on his mission to Niger. He also says that Rove told him the information about Wilson's wife was "going to be declassified soon." Affirmatively providing information obviously constitutes "disclosing" it, as the term is defined in the statute. So if the jury accepts Cooper's testimony, the issue of whether Rove "intentionally disclosed" information is settled. But it could also be settled even if the version provided by the "sources close to Rove" -- that he simply confirmed information Cooper provided -- was accepted as accurate. As Rove would certainly know, a confirmation by a senior administration official conveys information to a reporter and makes it available to him for use, even if under slightly limited circumstances. Both "conveying" and "making available" are terms used to define "disclose" in the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

Common sense precludes any serious argument that a reference to "Joseph Wilson's wife" does not constitute an identification, so the jury could reasonably infer Rove's knowledge from the nature of the information he disclosed. In other words, a jury could infer that Rove knew Wilson's wife's status was covert and that the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the government, because he said it was going to be declassified soon. Obviously, information does not need to be declassified if it is not currently classified. That the information is classified means that the government has been taking affirmative measures to conceal it.

Rove's revelations about Valerie Plame's specific work on weapons of mass destruction, as well as the claim that she was responsible for sending her husband to Niger, also give rise to the reasonable and necessary inference that he had access to detailed classified information about her work at the CIA. The only commonsense interpretation of the comment Cooper imputes to Rove -- "I've already said too much" -- is, finally, that he knew he was imparting classified information he was not supposed to impart.

Why believe Cooper? As a start, because most of what he says about the conversation is not in dispute. He is also clearly a man of principle who was willing to go to jail to protect his source. He has no motive to falsely incriminate anyone, least of all Karl Rove or Vice President Cheney's aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby. He has clearly been careful to include all the details he can recall regardless of their implications for either side -- and his account is corroborated by writings he made at the time. Perhaps most important, Cooper's version of the July 11, 2003 conversation with Rove makes sense when viewed against what we already know of the background of the entire case. That context not only supports Cooper's testimony, but also strengthens the case that Karl Rove had access to and knew that Valerie Wilson was a covert agent whose status was classified.

That is why the jury would likely hear, among other things, that Wilson's July 6, 2003 op-ed piece in the New York Times, which contradicted the administration's story about Saddam Hussein's search for yellowcake uranium ore in Niger, catapulted the administration into a frenzy of activity which appeared to have two overlapping goals. The first was the preparation of a CIA response to Wilson's revelations; the second, the undermining of Wilson's credibility. As New York Times columnist Frank Rich has so aptly described it, the eight days between the July 6 op-ed and Robert Novak's July 14 column outing Valerie Plame were characterized by "mounting desperation" on the part of the administration.

It is likely that only a fraction of what happened during that time has been made public, but the credible evidence that has been reported indicates that senior administration officials Rove and Libby were in close contact with each other, as well as with the State Department and the CIA, in order to carry out their two-pronged attack. The jury would likely hear evidence about their e-mail communications. The jury would also probably hear that, within 24 hours of publication of the Wilson piece, Secretary of State Colin Powell and White House Press Spokesman Ari Fleischer were seen holding a State Department memo requested by Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage on the day the Wilson op-ed appeared; that, when seen with the memo, Powell and Fleischer were on Air Force One with President Bush and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice on the way to Africa; that the State Department memo contained a paragraph about Valerie Wilson's work at the CIA marked "secret"; that on July 8th, Karl Rove talked about Valerie Wilson's work at the CIA with Robert Novak; that, at about the same time, another senior administration official told Robert Novak about Valerie Wilson's work at the CIA; that, on July 12, the day after Rove talked with Cooper, Lewis Libby, speaking "on background," told Cooper he "had heard" the information about Valerie Wilson's CIA status and possible involvement in sending Wilson to Niger; that, on the same day, a "senior administration official who was not Libby" told Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus that "Wilson's trip to Niger was set up as a boondoggle by his CIA-employed wife"; and that, just the day before on July 11, CIA Director George Tenet had taken the fall for the inclusion of the infamous 16 words that, inserted in the State of the Union Address, had started the whole ball rolling. So once Robert Novak published his story outing Valerie Plame and undermining Joseph Wilson on July 14, 2003, it would appear that the administration had achieved both of its goals. Hardly the work of "senior administration officials" who know not what they do.

If charges were brought, it would certainly be in light of this background evidence, and more (as they say on the infomercials) that a jury would be asked to decide whether a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act had been proved. That jury would, of course, be free to draw whatever reasonable inferences it found appropriate based on this chain of circumstances.

Circumstantial evidence? Yes, contrary to popular belief, direct and circumstantial evidence have equal weight under federal criminal law. So one very strong permissible inference from the evidence of the administration's post-July 6, 2003 conduct could be that, given the damaging nature of the Joseph Wilson story and the urgency with which the State Department memo had been requested, it is impossible to believe that Powell simply tucked it into his briefcase and began watching an in-flight movie. Precisely who saw it or heard about its contents is not publicly known, but it is known that Lewis Libby and Karl Rove had been tasked to work with CIA Director George Tenet to craft the mea culpa Tenet would deliver on July 11 taking responsibility for those sixteen words in the State of the Union. As has been widely reported, their involvement can be proven by evidence of an intense exchange of e-mails between the two. It would be difficult to work on Tenet's statement without knowing about the information in the July 7 memo, as well as much other classified information about the Wilson trip, so it would not be unreasonable to infer that they too had been recipients of the information in that memo.

Whether charges will be brought under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act or, if they were, what a jury would decide, we cannot possibly know. But we do know that it is not a law under which guilt is nearly impossible to prove -- as the pundits, citing each other, have led us to believe. It also bears mentioning that experienced prosecutors never underestimate juries. Most juries are like the special grand jury described by Matt Cooper: thorough, highly-engaged people who are absolutely committed to applying the law only to the evidence they have heard in court as they are instructed to do. They are not easily fooled. They have common sense. And they are firmly rooted in the reality-based community.

Elizabeth de la Vega has recently retired after serving more than 20 years as a federal prosecutor in Minneapolis and San Jose. During her tenure, she was a member of the Organized Crime Strike Force and Chief of the San Jose Branch of the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Northern District of California.


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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's a little hard to drag need-to-know through the courts
esp. against an administration unwilling to cooperate with its own federal prosecutor.

Besides, you make it sound like Libby's work wasn't political. To them, shutting Joe Wilson down was advancing national security. That they have a warped view of national security doesn't change the fact that the primary determiner of what is or is not national security is the executive branch, headed by the President, who delegated way too much of his power to the Vice-President in this matter. Bottom line: it depends on who gets to decide what constitutes national security. Courts are reluctant to challenge the executive branch discretion provided by Congress, though Congress also provided penalties for those who clearly (beyond reasonable doubt) violate that security in unjustifiable ways... but it's a legal crapshoot, whereas perjury charges aren't.

If the perjury charges lead to all sorts of dominoes falling, great. But a prosecutor does not need to be beholden to "do it fast" rather than "do it right".
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. XKenz, thank you for this excellent post! It will be most helpful in following
testimony and events of the trial. We really need to narrow our focus to what is provable, and how prosecutors are required to proceed, even while the bombshells are exploding. De la Vega has laid it out very well. And her illumination on the Intelligence Protection Identities Act is most useful.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's called, " getting all your ducks in a row"!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perhaps it will happen after the trial and all the info that will come out.
Putting people under oath is the most important thing right now. Also..Congress is looking into it.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. If you take Fitzgerald at his word--in the only press conference he has held
Edited on Sun Jan-28-07 05:37 PM by Peace Patriot
on this matter--he said that Libby had "thrown dust in the umpire's eyes"--he had obstructed justice--and therefore Fitzgerald could not clearly SEE who had outed Valerie Plame and why. He also said that finding out WHY was a grave matter of national security.

I have no reason not to take Patrick Fitzgerald at his word. For one thing, he is not grandstanding around town and in the press, like that asshole "grand inquisitor", Kenneth Starr. He just seems to be quietly doing his job, investigating the most dangerous people on earth, who have killed for less. (--and, in this case, quite possibly literally killed folk in the Plame/Brewster-Jennings network, by outing them, for WMD investigations they were pursuing, implicating the Bush Junta in nefarious WMD activities).

My parentheses takes me to my next point. It may not be Cheney who was the mastermind. It may be Rumsfeld.

Cheney was/is in a political position. He can break arms within that context, and throw his weight around in the government. But it was really Rumsfeld with the closest, and more than likely operational, connections to the Niger forgeries and other WMD issues. It was Rumsfeld who was running his own intelligence shop--the Office of Special Plans--to cook intelligence, and to get around the honest professionals at the CIA, who--like Plame and her counter-proliferaton network--saw their job as preventing war, not manufacturing it.

I have a theory of Traitorgate that may pertain to Fitzgerald and his investigation (for instance, re: why he hasn't indicted Rove or Cheney): That almost everything we can now see, in the Bush Junta behavior on Traitorgate, is a cover story for something worse--that is, all of the following elements of the known story are false or half-false: That Cheney was oh so concerned about an ex-ambassador's dissenting op-ed, in a newstream that Cheney/Rove had nearly complete control over at the time (summer '03). That Cheney was surprised by Wilson's publication (--and, in a panic of P.R. concern, outed Plame and the Brewster-Jennings network to punish Wilson). That Cheney discovered Plame's identify only shortly before she was outed. That Cheney outed Plame primarily to punish Wilson and silence others on the matter of cooked intel. That the haste and panic evident in the White House in the weeks of July 6-22, 2003, was triggered by Wilson's publication. That the insistence of certain people within the Bush regime that Bush must SPEAK the Niger allegation (they kept putting it back into his speeches, after several agencies had proven that the Niger docs were forgeries) was for the political purpose of "convincing the American people" that war was necessary. And that the second outing--on July 22--of the entire Brewster-Jennings WMD counter-proliferation network (also by Novak) was some kind of accidental spillover from the outing of Plame (on July 14), and intended to punish Wilson, and/or frighten and silence others on the cooked intel.

If you consider the possibility that the Bush Junta was trying PLANT nukes in Iraq--to be "discovered" by the US troops who were hunting for them at the time--all of the above-described front-ground story takes on a much different coloration. The Niger docs, for instance--which are often described as "crude" forgeries (easily detectable)--may have been intended to be discovered as forgeries. This would put the CIA--and other agencies that the Bushites wanted to discredit--on record as saying no-nukes-in-Iraq. The crudeness of the forgeries starts to make sense--if there was to be a FOLLOW-UP of a "find" of nukes in Iraq. Bush vindicated! Cheney vindicated! The CIA debunked!

The contacts with the suspected Niger forgery group are all Pentagon contacts--some on the Pentagon payroll. And they include a most interesting character--Manucher Ghorbanifar, the notorious Iran/Contra arms dealer, who had been named persona non grata (a known liar) by the CIA (and had reason to hate them). They also include rabid Neo-Con Michael Ladeen, and the head of Italian intelligence (SISMI), whom you would think would be able to come up with better forgeries. An additional Pentagon contact was Judith Miller--in Iraq after the invasion, with the troops looking for the WMDs they all knew weren't there, and, according to her, with an "embed" contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld. (Miller was the NYT war propagandist on WMDs.)

One more element, which makes the front-ground story suspicious--the riveting coincidence of dates with the death of David Kelly, the Brits' WMD expert, who was whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC about the "sexed up" pre-war WMD intel, was outed to his bosses, and was interrogated at a "safe house" and threatened with the Official Secrets Act, at exactly the same time that the Cheney-Libby-Judith Miller and other meetings were occurring about the whistleblower Wilson on this side of the Atlantic. Kelly had started whistleblowing at the end of May, and was interrogated in the first week of July, then...

July 6: Wilson published his article
July 7 (the next day): Tony Blair was informed that David Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things" (could say; not had said) (Hutton report)
July 14: Plame outed (by Novak)
July 18: Kelly found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances; his office and computers are searched.
July 22: The entire Brewster-Jennings WMD counter-proliferation network is ADDITIONALLY outed (by Novak), putting all of its covert agents/contacts at risk of getting killed, and disabling all projects.

What if the trigger for outing Plame was NOT the Wilson article on July 6, but what Tony Blair found out the next day, July 7, about Kelly (the "uncomfortable things" that Kelly "could say")? And, to push it further, what if the thing that Kelly had found out about, that got him killed, was a nefarious scheme to plant the WMD evidence in Iraq? (Kelly was a UN weapons inspector in Iraq--and also in Russia--known for being a tough guy negotiator and a straight-arrow, and he had friends in Iraq.)

Judith Miller is an intriguing filament is tying these two events together. In June, she was having clandestine meetings with Libby at which he leaked national security secrets. In July--on July 17, to be exact, the day David Kelly died--she got an email from her old friend David Kelly (whom she had used as a major quoted source in her book "Germs"). The email is short and expresses his concern about the "many dark actors playing games." He was found dead the next day, near his home, with one slit wrist (minor artery), supposedly having bled to death all night outside in the rain. (Kelly was a scientist--and a good one, from all reports).

I don't know if this is "IT"--what these people are covering up. But their current story--the one on display at the Libby trial--does have the feel of a cover story. And the other thing that strikes me is that Rumsfeld is the one who got fired. (People think it was because of the election--but when did the Bush junta ever care what the American people think?)

Fitzgerald has no choice but to pursue this investigation through one cover story filter after another, and to try to snag them on their lies. And I come back to what he said. Libby "threw dust in the umpire's eyes." Fitzgerald therefore cannot see clearly who did it and why. And the "why" is of the utmost importance.

To conclude, the reason that he hasn't indicted anyone on the outings themselves may be that he is not satisfied that he knows for sure who did it and WHY. And the reason he hasn't indicted Rove, Cheney or others--on lying and obstruction--is that he hasn't been able to crack through this second layer of cover story--that Cheney did it for political reasons. (The first was that Rove did it--and that got cracked when Rove balked at being left holding the bag, and decided to cooperate with Fitzgerald on Libby's lying/obstruction trial. It was probably Libby who tried at first to finger Rove.)

Cheney, Rove and others were all involved, but who was really pulling the strings, and WHY? Is it really a story of control freak Cheney, contemptuous of the law, vengeful, ruthless, laying waste to other government employees' lives, and trying to shut everybody up? It could be. It's believable. But so was the Rovian revenge story. Or is all this just window-dressing for darker deeds? That, too, is believable, and may help explain some of the puzzles of these events, and some of what we are witnessing in the trial.
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xkenx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I sure hope those treasonous turds dig themselves big holes while testifying.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. You tell an interesting story, however....
why wouldn't the Bush Junta have WMD's planted by Blackwater or some other private mercenary group??

I still believe they outed Plame as retribution on Joe and a signal to anyone else to keep quiet.

Ray McGovern said this about the WMD issue - they used it as a pretext for invasion. They invisioned a quick, glorious victory with stupendous success as Iraqi's greeted the conquering liberators with sweets and flowers. And in all of that glory with the great military victory we would have won, no one would have cared if there weren't any WMD's. All would have been forgotten in the celebration of victory.

What they didn't plan on was what has transpired as of now. Disaster.

Now its cover your ass time.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Why wouldn't they plant WMD? Well, not because they're above that, but ...
they could never keep it secret and would face a death penalty if caught.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. All the more reason Ray McGovern's theory makes sense..
It's already public knowledge they lied about every reason for going in, I don't think they would have risked planting WMD for fear of what you just said - in time, it would be no secret and they would face the consequences of that deception.

Also, look at the way these clowns have "planned" the occupation. There was never any Plan "B" allowed to be brought up in case everything went badly. It has, and now they don't know what to do from one month to the next...

Remember, the Iraq of today was not what the neo-con dreamers invisioned.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Chimpy the Decider
Scooter, Sneer, Scared Ari and the rest of the cronies would say they got the OK to release Plame's name "from above."
At the top of the heap, the crazy monkey has the authority to declassify whatever he knows about.

Fitzgerald has to go where he knows the law is on his side and he can prove it to a jury.

The future history will record these turds for what they are: TRAITORS.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yeah, the indisputable crime is lying about it under oath.
If there's nothing to hide except for political convenience it's wrong to obstruct a federal investigation about a serious matter. If that's really all there is, just pony up to it and there's no court case. Some would cry for impeachment but, some would always cry for impeachment.

Libby felt it was important enough to lie under oath about though. Who are we to question.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. I was going to reply with this explanation that Shrub claims that he has the right to declassify.
Thanks again Octafish!
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xkenx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. As someone pointed out in another thread, there is a procedure for declassification,
and Bushco had not done so re Plame. Can't just say you did it retroactively. If Bushco had declassified Plame's identity, it would have clearly been for the purpose of harming Joe Wilson, laying Bush open to impeachment proceedings.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. We don't know the wording of Shrub's executive order. That is the only explanation
as to why no one, no matter who is being uncovered here, is being arrested on the charge of xposing a covert agent.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. I see it as the exact reverse, as to motive:
Edited on Sun Jan-28-07 09:30 PM by WinkyDink
"In the orchestrated effort to destroy Joe Wilson, they blew the cover of a CIA operative who just happened to be working on WMD vis a vis Iran."

IMO, the destruction of the B-J-Plame organization and its discoveries WAS PARAMOUNT, both to halt the revelation of no Iraqi WMD's and also to preclude the discovery of Cheney-connected arms shenanigans. JW merely provided a "plausible deniability".
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
18. Who says he is through? He is getting testimony on record.
Nothing is preventing him from bringing additional charges. He's establishing cases right now.
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