Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

60 Minutes: Duke accuser made "new wild and vivid" accusations.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 08:01 PM
Original message
60 Minutes: Duke accuser made "new wild and vivid" accusations.
Edited on Sun Apr-15-07 08:19 PM by pnwmom
This is the updated, much longer version of the story that was on the website earlier.

Source: CBS 60 Minutes


Attorney General Cooper, speaking about his investigators: "One of the things that stunned them was that the accuser came up with a new wild and vivid version of her central allegation in the case, the alleged attack in the bathroom. Here’s what she said happened:

"She was suspended in mid-air and was being assaulted by all three of them in the bathroom. And I've been in that bathroom. And it was very difficult for me to see how that could have occurred. And then we got another new story," Cooper tells Stahl.

SNIP

"The possibility of going to jail for 30 years was very real. That was very real for us," Seligmann tells Stahl. . . .

"You know, I pictured how they'd react when they said guilty, you know, having jurors say guilty. And to know everything was taken away from me for nothing," Seligmann says. "And one of my biggest fears was that it would go to trial and that it would be a hung jury and I would be stuck in limbo for the rest of my life."


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/11/60minutes/main2673456.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Womyn"? Don't even try to justify that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Womyn" were the problem, were they?
Fascinating.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah, I think that is fascinating too.
Edited on Sun Apr-15-07 09:51 PM by Lex

Next we'll be hearing about how it's the femi-nazis fault too.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You mean "femi-nazis" like her?


;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. melanin-enhanced females ?
Oh wait I get it. Do they have nappy heads too?

Did I end up on the FR board by accident?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. "melanin-enhanced females" This is what Imus should have said
:wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Perhaps, but who would have grasped the meaning?
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Holy shit
wow just wow...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Maybe you check the calibration on your sarcasmometer...?
...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Sorry about that
Edited on Sun Apr-15-07 10:37 PM by nam78_two
Who knows these days with some of the comments I have seen lately..

I know the "sarcasm" icon is kinda moranic, but I always use it just in case I am misunderstood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. self-delete
Edited on Sun Apr-15-07 10:26 PM by nam78_two
Whatever....
I don't even wanna get into this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Wow, subtlety -AND- originality!
You got it all going on, doncha?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. whatever....
I'm not the one who was jumping on the INNOCENT players...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. No, you're just the one telling DUers to "go play with themselves". Classy.
Really undercuts that whole "guessing correctly"
thing you had going for a minute there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. what the fuck? what are you being so nasty for? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Can someone with mental illness be raped?
If a tree falls in the woods and there's nobody there to hear it, did it really fall?

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Is that a joke?
a) yes of course a mentally ill person can be raped, in fact it happens quite a lot.

b) if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, did it make a sound? Not 'did it really fall?'. Sheesh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. What?
Did you have a point or do you just like to post idiocy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Psst.
It's the second one. Trust me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Regardless of mental illness there ought to be some evidence.
There was none.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. It seems like
The stripper lied and the Duke frat boys are innocent. End of the story. Can we move on?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. No. It seems not.
There seem to be people here who either a) cannot forgive those of us who were outraged when the case first came to light; or b) cannot accept that the young men were falsely charged by a rather mentally unbalanced woman and a DA gone wild. So we are going to savage each other over this for the next week or so.

At least we are off of Imus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. There's another issue. I think many people here were unable
to imagine that a prosecutor would proceed with a case based on no evidence. How many times did I read here that Nifong MUST have more evidence that the defense wasn't telling us about, and that reporters who read the entire case file didn't tell us about, because NO prosecutor would proceed under these circumstances?

And yet he did. And he had gotten to the point where he was not only proceeding without evidence, but he was conspiring to hide exculpatory evidence.

And if these students hadn't had parents who could afford monstrous legal bills, they could be facing years in prison.

So I hope a few people have learned from this case that prosecutor's have great power, and anyone with great power is capable of doing great evil. We shouldn't blindly trust them. North Carolina needs to amend its laws to put checks on prosecutors like Nifong -- there are none, at the moment -- and other states should be looking into their own laws.

One more thing. This case has demonstrated the importance of open discovery laws. Open discovery is what gave the defense access to the DNA evidence and is the biggest reason the students are free today. Unfortunately, bills have been introduced in the N.C. legislature to rollback their open discovery law. Those bills should be fought, and any state that doesn't have open discovery should amend its laws to require it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. It took me a couple of months to accept that Nifong was
out of control and had nothing - but that was a year ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. No, it's another dead horse that needs more beating.
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. The issue is much larger than this case, or this prosecutor.
The issue is that there are men and women who are victims of false prosecution sitting in prisons all over the country. But this case has shown us at least a few things that could help reduce this problem.

First, we have to recognize that it happens. Over and over, I heard people here insist that a prosecutor would never be prosecuting this case unless "something" had happened; people were sure that he must have had some real evidence and the defense lawyers were just spinning. Well, it turns out that there never was any case. Our faith in the prosecutor's office was grossly misplaced. When we see an empty case, maybe it really is an empty case -- maybe we shouldn't be so blindly trustful.

And Nifong was able to continue for almost a year. He would probably still be prosecutor except that the Bar took the extremely unusual step of bringing charges against him while a case was in process. Which is the second point. In N.C., there was no way for the state to take over the case unless the prosecutor voluntarily relinquished it. One of the defense lawyers mentioned this at the press conference -- that they're proposing a law that would allow the state Supreme Court to step in and remove a case from a rogue prosecutor.

The third thing I hope we've learned is how critically important open discovery laws are -- the law that gave the defense access to all the evidence that the state had gathered. This is even more important for poor defendants than it is for defendants who could afford all their own private investigators, labs, etc. But in N.C. there is a law being considered right now to roll back open discovery! And not all states have it. People who care about defendants rights should make sure that their own states have open discovery. It protects all of us -- not just the guilty.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Things like this are what changed my position on capital punishment
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 02:57 AM by Pushed To The Left
The wrongful convictions that happen in this country are frightening. What's really scary about this case is that if those boys had been very poor and/or didn't have good representation in court, they might have been convicted. I believe a man just got released this week after 25 years in prison for a rape that DNA evidence finally proved he did not commit!

Edit: I found the story: http://www.chinapost.com.tw/news/archives/international/2007410/106761.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. The Stripper LIED? Were is the JURY Decision on that???
One of my pet peeves with Attorney Generals is that there DO NOT discipline DAs that step out of bound in Death Penalty cases. i.e. The DA goes on TV saying he or she is going for the Dearth Penalty even before their is an investigation. I have NEVER heard of an Attorney General stepping in and saying that the DA overstepped his duties, even where there is clear evidence of mental impairments on part of the murder.

About ten years ago a woman with a history of mental disorders started to shoot students at the Main Penn State Campus. The local DA went on TV, after she was captured, saying he was going for the Death Penalty. The DA kept up this line until his own psychological expert said he had severe mental problems (The case was settled in that she was found guilty of Third Degree murder and then sentence to a Psychiatric hospital where she should have been in the first place). Did the Pennsylvania Attorney General step in at any time? NO, the victim of the DA excess was only a mentally impaired working class person, not some suburbanite white kid.....

Now, that some Suburbanite white kid is the suspect, we have to handle them with kid gloves. So we have a stripper with mental problems, what else is new (Most strippers I have met have some sort of mental problem). Having a mental impairment does NOT mean she was NOT assaulted.

What really gulls me in that 60 minute interview was the Attorney General stating there was NO evidence. He had the testimony of the Stripper THAT IS EVIDENCE. HE may NOT believe that evidence, but it is still evidence.

As to the evidence that the Students did NOT commit a crime (I doubt if any penetration occurred, but something occurred) lets look at the list:

1. She had Sperm in her that was NOT of any of the students. So what? Even a whore can be raped. Thus the fact he had sex with OTHER MEN does NOT mean she was NOT assaulted.

2. The picture of the one student going to a ATM machine. Most Victims are known to be inaccurate as to the time of an assault, just ask yourself the question, if you are being beat up (as I think she might have been) would you look at your watch to see the time? Being off 2-3 hours is not unknown and up to a jury to decide based on the evidence presented to it.

3. The picture showing her entering her car, and smiling, people smile at each other instinctively, I have observed women smiling at me (I am male). This is NOT some statement of happiness, but an instinctive reaction when we come into contact with other people. The smile is to show other people we are friendly, NOT that we have NOT been attacked. Again something for a jury to decide.

Now, if I was the DA I would not have brought charges on these Students based on this evidence, but that is NOT the same as saying they is NO EVIDENCE. Notice the Attorney General is saying the same thing, he is NOT bringing charges against the Stripper, why? The Attorney General would actually have to PROVE the innocence of those Students to convict the stripper of lying to authorities. Thus NO charges against the Stripper for then the AG would have to PROVE his statement that the Students were Innocent as opposed to just not Guilty.

One last comment, if you go by what the AG said, you will basically abolish ALL of the improvements in Rape cases done over the last 30 years. Basically what the AG is saying it is OK to attack the victim, including her sexual activities to show she is an unreliable witness. Thus any woman who goes into any profession where sex is a part of the at job (What I mean by Sex, is the use of her body, which includes Models, sellers of makeup, and even store clerks in businesses where beauty is a factor). Since all of these professions involve showing off one's body to a degree, if they are raped the fact they are in a "Sex" business be reasons to say the rape did NOT Occur?

LEts be honest, these Students hired Stripper, was disappointed when a black stripper showed up instead of a White Stripper. Took out that disappointment against the Stripper (Through probably no sexual assault took place) but she was hit on her breasts, rear and even across her vagina. She took this as an sexual assault (Which I have to agree with her on). Now the AG is saying that unless actual sex occurred these students are "Innocent". Even the DA involved by the time he was removed from the case was moving away from Sexual Assault to simple assault (On the grounds it would be easier to prove some sort of improper contact took place as oppose to an improper sexual contact) but something happened and the Victim was some how attacked. No these students are NOT innocent, they may not be guilty except for having the bad taste in hiring a stripper, but that is NOT the same as being "Innocent".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Sep 16th 2024, 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC