Are we looking for converts or heretics?

[SidneyCarton]

In the midst of the histrionics on health care, one begins to wonder.

[Demit]

1. What is one wondering, if one may ask?

[SidneyCarton]

2. There is a saying from the 80's

Which was used to explain the slow electoral decline of our party during those years. "Republicans look for converts, while Democrats look for heretics." While I find such an argument woefully simplistic, (it overlooks both the shady dealings of the Reaganist right, as well as the rise of the Fundies) it does speak to a problematic flaw among American Liberals. We go to immense labors to create a majority, and then become disgusted with the fact that said majority is unwieldy, ideologically heterogeneous, and generally like a herd of cats.

Inevitably some enlightened souls start to talk about how all this outreach was essentially a bad idea, and that all it has done is dilute the party ideologically.

The problem is, of course, that such is the nature of majorities. Americans are a diverse lot, and our views on most subjects are far from homogenous. Hence any true majority will include a diluted ideological position in order to include everyone's take. Those who want purity would do well to look at the current fate of the GOP. Sure, they have legions of fanatics willing to go on crusade for "sister Sarah" or whatever, but they're on their way to becoming the party of the deep south, Alaska and Utah, hardly a strong base from which to launch a return to power.

I just find it ironic that having fought so hard to gain the right to govern, we now seem to think that since it is hard, maybe we should piss it all away.

[Demit]

3. I'm sorry, I still don't follow, regarding whom you're talking about. DUers? Dems in Congress?

Can you give me a specific example of what you mean?

First off, it's a given that in any large group there will be diverse opinions. That's why businesses write mission statements, and political parties devise platforms: these declarations set out core beliefs that everyone can/will/does ascribe to. (Btw, I don't think the American political party system, vis-a-vis its members, is any different from any other democracies' systems. There's always complaint about what elected officials are doing, and parties' fortunes rise and fall over time, everywhere.)

Wouldn't you agree that a valid basis for complaint is when elected officials of one's party seem to be departing from what the party's core beliefs are?

I'd never heard the saying you quote, so I don't have an automatic understanding of it. I couldn't immediately find who originally said it and in what context. But I am most curious about how you think it applies to politics in 2009.

Also, who is the 'we' you refer to in your last sentence? If it's Dem voters, how are voters finding it hard to govern so therefore a solution might be to piss it all away? If it's our elected officials, well, what do you mean exactly?

[Romulox]

4. Funny how this "herd of cats" has moved inexorably to the right for 30 years. Coincedence? nt

[SidneyCarton]

5. Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep.

[Romulox]

6. Denying the patently obvious is ONE method of debate.

Not a very compelling one, however. :eyes:

[SidneyCarton]

7. It starts when you're always afraid... step out of line, the man comes and takes you away.

[hfojvt]

8. young people speaking their minds

singing songs and a carrying signs
mostly say 'hooray for our side'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0yCM5uhQU

[Demit]

9. Good lord, are you on something? Can you only speak in cliches & other people's catchphrases?

You know, when I was googling the saying you're so fond of, your previous DU post using the same phrase was one of the first choices in google. I didn't mention it before b/c I was more interested in finding out what your cryptic OP meant. I see in checking back that you have ignore my questions so you could respond in your asinine koanlike way to another poster. Apparently you feel this makes you very deep. It doesn't. It makes you ridiculous.

Next time wait more than a week before posting "Republicans look for converts, while Democrats look for heretics." Use the time to formulate actual thoughts, just in case you ever accidentally get engaged in an actual conversation.

[SidneyCarton]

10. No, I just gave up on the thread that's all.

It didn't involve Roman Polanski, Rape or other interesting things, (and it was poorly written to boot) so I stopped taking it seriously.

Sorry for wasting your time.