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Should Congress introduce a bill to cut off funding for the war in Iraq?

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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 08:18 PM
Original message
Poll question: Should Congress introduce a bill to cut off funding for the war in Iraq?
Edited on Sun Jan-28-07 08:25 PM by Tatiana
The comments below are from a September 2006 article in The Hill before the Democrats assumed the majority:

"I can’t stop this war," a frustrated Rangel said in a recent interview, reiterating his vow to retire from Congress if Democrats fall short of a majority in the House.

But when pressed on how he could stop the war even if Democrats control the House during the last years of President Bush’s second term, Rangel paused before saying, "You’ve got to be able to pay for the war, don’t you?"

<snip>

Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) has stated that "Personally I wouldn’t spend another dime on the war," and notes that Congress helped force an end to the Vietnam War by refusing to pay for it.


John Conyers had the following to say regarding funding for the Iraq war:

"He can't fire us," added the House Judiciary Committee chair, referencing the Congress that he said should block funding for Bush's plans to maintain his war. "The founders of our country gave our Congress the power of the purse because they envisioned a scenario exactly like we find ourselves in today. Not only is it in our power, it is our obligation to stop Bush."


Pelosi indicated in December 2006 that the Democrats would not cut off funding for the Iraq war.

"We will not cut off funding for the troops," Pelosi said. "Absolutely not," she said.

A reporter had asked Pelosi if the new Democratic-controlled Congress would vote to end the funding of the war if Democrats were unable to persuade President Bush to change his Iraq strategy.

"Let me remove all doubt in anyone’s mind; as long as our troops are in harm’s way, Democrats will be there to support them, but… we will have oversight over that funding," she said.


John P. Murtha is the Chair for the Defense Subcommittee for Appropriations. http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa12_murtha/PRtestimony.html">The following is taken from his testimony before Before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Jan. 23, 2007:

To achieve stability and security in Iraq, I believe we first must have a responsible phased redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq. General William Odom (U.S. Army, Retired) recently testified, "We are pursuing the wrong war."

Stability and security in the Region should be our overarching strategy, not a "victory in Iraq." I agree with General Odom and believe that Regional Stability can only be accomplished through the redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq.

Who wants us to stay in Iraq? In my opinion, Iran and Al Qaeda, because we intensify the very radical extremism we claim to be fighting against, while at the same time depleting our financial and human resources.

<snip>

I recommend the phased redeployment of U.S. forces, first from Saddam’s palaces, then from the green zone. Next, from the prime real estate of Iraq’s major cities, out of the factories and universities, and finally out of the country all together. We need to give communities back to the Iraqis so they can begin to self govern, begin economic recovery and return to some type of normality. I recommend the adoption of a U.S policy that encourages and rewards reconstruction and regional investment and one that is dictated and administered not by the United States, but by the Iraqis themselves.

<snip>

For decades, the Army operated on a deployment policy that for every one year of deployment, two years were spent at home. This was considered optimal for re-training, re-equipping and re-constituting. Without relief, the Army will be forced to extend deployments to Iraq to over one year in country and will be forced to send troops back with less than one year at home. The Army reported that a 9-month deployment was preferable. Medical experts testified that in intensive combat, deployments of over 3 months increased the likelihood for service members to develop post traumatic stress disorders.

<snip>

I have said this before and I continue to say that there are essentially only two plans. One is to continue an occupation that has not worked and that has shown no progress toward stabilization. The other, which I advocate, is to end the occupation of Iraq, redeploy and re-strengthen our military and turn Iraq over to the Iraqis.


*************************


Many people cite the decision by Congress to cut off funding as the reason for the end of the Vietnam War. However, I'm concerned that even cutting off the funding for the Iraq war will not stop Bush/Cheney. Remember Iran-Contra? When Congress cut off funding at that time, the "Enterprise" was created to continue to fund the Contras. Do we doubt that Bush/Cheney would do something similar?

On edit:

Added "please explain why" for those that vote NO.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's probably the only way to end it.
Whether or not it's the right thing to do, I don't know.
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RegimeChange2008 Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. The standard argument against cutting off the funding is always this
"You don't leave your people over there stranded and cut off". And while that is a logical statement, it implies that we HAVE to leave troops there in the first place.

We do NOT. That is a lie, and the longer we leave them there, the more of them will die.

The only way to end this insane, genocidal, imperialist, fascist foreign policy is to get ALL of them out. And the sooner the better.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. So you are in favor of a complete, immediate withdrawal?
As opposed to a phased withdrawal, which is advocated by others.
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, Defund the war immediately, it is NOT abandoning the troops.
As it was explained to me, even if Congress completely defunded the Iraq war today, there will still be more than enough funds, resources, supplies, etc. available to the military to perform a structured, safe, well-defended withdrawl of our troops and equipment from Iraq, and transport all of them back to the U.S.

By doing nothing and allowing Bush to continue the war, we are abandoning our troops.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Kick & recommend..to keep it out there....n/t
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. We have to.
Unless we want to be stuck in Iraq for a decade.

How many people will continue to die...for a lie?
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Luckyduck Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. They don't actually need a bill to cut off funding
They need to vote down the upcoming request which is estimated to be as much as $160 billion.

The money in the pipeline now can be used to bring the troops home.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua-scheer/rep-dennis-kucinich-cut_b_34303.html
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Luckyduck Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. kick
:kick:
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Defund the war
Do Fund war reparations to rebuild Iraq and to pay off factions so that they don't have anything to fight over. It will be cheaper in the long run.

Also approve funding for alternative energy sources.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. I find it odd, the "no" voters never explain why.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Probably out of fear of expressing an (obviously) unpopular opinion.
But I am genuinely interested in why those people feel we shouldn't cut off the funding. I have to admit, a year ago, I used to be in that group. It's only now that I've begun to think that there is no other way to bring about the end of this awful war.

For those that don't think we should cut off the funding, I'd appreciate a PM. I promise to keep your opinion confidential, if you'd prefer it.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. They don't need (and couldn't pass) such a bill
Since Bush would veto any such bill, it would require wide bipartisan support to pass it.

All they have to do is refuse to refund the war when the authorization comes up again -- that being said, it wouldn't affect the troops on the ground until the current appropriations run out. The federal fiscal year begins in August, but I'm not sure if the war appropriations are on the same schedule.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. No, Why Urge Them to Make Even Bigger Public Fools of Themselves?
Is there some part of "rule by signing statement" that people refuse to comprehend?!?

Do they not hear the claims of Urinary Authoritarian Executive**?!?

Does larger office space suddenly cause amnesia?

This talk of "ratcheting up" their non-binding, non-pressure is mystifying. They've finally been handed a place in the Nut-Cutting Contest and they show up with noisy wrenches to screw around with.

Only Impeachment ... is the right tool for this job.

It IS our positive agenda.

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

--

-----
**Based on the newly-discovered, "inherent" (i.e., faith-based) Constitutional Authority for an appointed ruler (as opposed to elected leader) to piss down the back of the American People and tell them it's raining.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a "binding" resolution.
And, you're right. The risk is there that the right-wingnuts will try to make a spectacle out of those supporting such a bill or resolution. However, I'm convinced after listening to various Congressional members (and watching Keith O w/ George McGovern), that simply refusing to appropriate funds for the Iraq war for the upcoming fiscal year will NOT be enough to stop this war. This rogue administration will simply divert other defense appropriations to continue the occupation.

We need language that directly states NO future appropriations PERIOD shall be used for the war in Iraq. And even then, as with Iran-Contra, Cheney & co. may still use nefarious means to keep their war going.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. You (and they) are chasing wild geese
There is no language remedy. Because there is no defunding remedy. Because there is no legislative remedy. Because there is no legal/judicial remedy.

There is only "rule by signing statement" and "Urinary Executive" rhetoric.

The "popularity" of the (empty) threat to defund the surge/war/Iran attack is just another form of rationalizing for inaction on Impeachment.

I use the phrase "Only Impeachment" quite deliberately.

Everything else is purely impotent.

--
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yes.
Not one more dime for one more death.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. Bushco has threatened to put troops in harm's way, in order to blackmail
the Congress into continuing to fund the war.

I believe Hadley recently mentioned that.
(Without using the word "blackmail", of course)
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yes. There's no way it would fly in the Senate, but I'd like to see them at least try.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You don't think Hagel, Snow, & Collins could find 7 other Republics?
Lieberman is a lost cause, but if Reid was on board, it's possible that he'd find some way to keep the Dems together.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. Looks like Russ is going to introduce a bill...
:kick:
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
21. End it. The time for bullshit talk is over.
It's time for the Democrats in power, to put their money where their mouths are.

END THIS WAR NOW
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