Taser: Don't shoot stun gun at chest

[Chemisse]

Taser: Don't shoot stun gun at chest


PHOENIX - Taser International is advising police agencies across the nation not to shoot its stun guns at a suspect's chest.

The Arizona-based company says such action poses a risk — albeit extremely low — of an "adverse cardiac event."

The advisory was issued in an Oct. 12 training bulletin. It marks the first time that Taser has suggested there is any risk of a cardiac arrest related to the use of its 50,000-volt stun guns, The Arizona Republic reported.

Taser officials said Tuesday the bulletin does not state that Tasers can cause cardiac arrest. They said the advisory means only that law-enforcement agencies can avoid controversy if their officers aim at areas other than the chest.

Critics called it a stunning reversal for the company.



http://www.google.com/ig?hl=en&source=iglk

This sounds like, 'our product is not harmful, but if it were, here's what you should do.'

[tk2kewl]

1. goes against all weapons training cops have had

how but don't use taser.

[razorman]

7. Exactly. You shoot for center mass. Less chance of missing.

[Chemisse]

12. Maybe that is why there have been so many deaths reported

With these things, if cops are trained to shoot to the center, and that is the riskiest place to taze someone.

[no limit]

2. Well shooting electricity toward a heart is never a good idea

some people have different reactions to electric shock than others. 99% of people can take a 50,000V shock from one of those without any serious health effects; but in a small percentage the heart can go in to fibrillation at a much lower voltage than what most people would need. And the closer to the heart you shoot the higher this risk becomes.

[gratuitous]

3. Oh well, that's all better then

In the heat of the moment, when an officer is struggling to gain control of a situation and pulls out his stun gun, I'm sure he'll recalibrate everything and make sure that he's pointing at his victim's arm or leg or some other body part, not the chest. And none of our fine constabulary will now think that a chest shot is just the thing to pacify this very troublesome person in front of them.

Can we just declare that there's a war going on, so that ordinary citizens can have at least the paper protection of the Geneva Conventions?

[Chemisse]

13. Yeah it sounds like there should be some different training for using tazers - nt

[xultar]

4. What asshole doesn't know that putting an electric shock to the chest

can kill?

WTF hasn't seen a hospital show when they tell everyone to CLEAR?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. Tasers pose the same risk for cardiac arrest as punching someone in the chest.

[MajorChode]

20. Most likely less so

Tasers are high voltage, low current devices, and the electricity is going to travel on the outside where the skin and muscles are. A blow to the chest is always going to directly affect the heart.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. To cause the R on T phenomenon the blow has to be at precisely the right time.

There are only milliseconds in each heart beat that the heart is vunerable to this phenomenon. That is what makes it so rare.

[MajorChode]

23. That leads me to believe it's even more so then

A millisecond is a millionth of a second. I have no idea how many milliseconds you're talking about, but I'm guessing it's more than 2. A normal heart rate is between 60 and 100, so let's say you go on the low side which is 60 (which is extremely conservative considering someone in a confrontation is almost certainly going to have an elevated heart rate), that's 1 beat per second. That gives a risk factor of about 1/333,333. Any more than 3 milliseconds or using a realistic average for heart rate is going to drive that risk factor up considerably. That's already a much higher risk than any reasonable associative risk with tasers.

I'm not saying you do, but some on DU can't seem to understand that there's also risks with NOT using a taser. Only when you evaluate one against the other can you reasonably say whether they should not be used, and I haven't seen anyone here even try to make that argument. Certainly it's reasonable and prudent to try and figure out a safer way to use them, even if the risk associated with them is infinitesimal.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. A millisecond is a thousandth of a second.

T waves usually aren't measured by themselves but most would probably measure under 200 ms. The blow though would have to occur in the relative refractory period which is the last half of the t wave so the timing would have to be within 100 ms and in all honesty it would probably only be a portion of that time.

[fascisthunter]

5. how about this... don't use tasers at all

go experiment tasers on your ceos and executive who profit from these idiotic weapons.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. Just shoot them and be done with it eh?

[Chemisse]

14. I think tasers are a good tool

They just need to be used with more caution.

[rcrush]

6. So aim for the face!

[Soylent Brice]

11. LMAO

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. I've never seen where they said their products weren't harmful.

Less harmful than shooting someone, but not completely safe with no risk.

[Chemisse]

15. Just going by the article

They seem to be contorting to avoid actually saying it could cause cardiac arrest. I like this part, where they say avoiding the chest "can avoid controversy".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. Where in the article do they say their products aren't harmful?

[Chemisse]

17. I have no idea what they publish in their manuals, but the articles says:

"It marks the first time that Taser has suggested there is any risk of a cardiac arrest related to the use of its 50,000-volt stun guns, The Arizona Republic reported.

"Taser officials said Tuesday the bulletin does not state that Tasers can cause cardiac arrest. They said the advisory means only that law-enforcement agencies can avoid controversy if their officers aim at areas other than the chest.

"Critics called it a stunning reversal for the company."

Now if you are mincing words: by harmful, I meant can cause cardiac arrest. Perhaps in their manuals they warn of other kinds of harm, like the victims falling and getting hurt. I have no idea. I have never bought a taser.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. As if that's mincing words.

[Heidi]

19. Recommended.

:kick:

[Lance_Boyle]

22. Easy enough - center mass on many (most?) Americans is below the chest

in the bulbous, protruding area. Pick a roll. Any roll.