REASONED ARGUMENTS AGAINST OBAMA Oct 25

[placton]

what do you think about your Obama now, eh? (said in Edward G. Robinson voice)

In a move consistent with other contradictory behavior on LGBT issues, the Obama administration has directed its Justice Department to file an extraordinary motion to get Log Cabin Republicans' lawsuit against the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' law thrown out of court, despite a federal judge's ruling that it can proceed.

The 11th-hour move for interlocutory appeal, which seeks to stay proceedings and block discovery, was surprisingly formulated at the same time that President Obama was reassuring LGBT activists that he still firmly opposes the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' law at the Human Rights Campaign's annual dinner earlier this month in Washington, DC.
read more at: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6852010

Leaderless: Senate Pushes For Public Option Without Obama's Support
President Barack Obama is actively discouraging Senate Democrats in their effort to include a public insurance option with a state opt-out clause as part of health care reform. In its place, say multiple Democratic sources, Obama has indicated a preference for an alternative policy, favored by the insurance industry, which would see a public plan "triggered" into effect in the future by a failure of the industry to meet certain benchmarks.

The administration retreat runs counter to the letter and the spirit of Obama's presidential campaign. The man who ran on the "Audacity of Hope" has now taken a more conservative stand than Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), leaving progressives with a mix of confusion and outrage.


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/24/leaderless-senate-pushes_n_332844.html

digby:

The Nation has devoted its current issue to Afghanistan. There are many interesting, provocative articles, but this sentence, from the editorial stands out:
Obama has called Afghanistan a war of necessity and fed the notion that it is the "good war," in contrast to the one in Iraq. Afghanistan policy should not be a hostage to the president's past rhetoric.
SCROLL DOWN
Read more at: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/


Multiple sources tell TPMDC that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is very close to rounding up 60 members in support of a public option with an opt out clause, and are continuing to push skeptical members. But they also say that the White House is pushing back against the idea, in a bid to retain the support of Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
read more at: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/sources-white-house-pushing-back-against-senate-public-option-opt-out-compromise.php?ref=fpblg

Thousands of Americans marched in Washington yesterday to demand a fulfillment of Obama's long-stated and oft-repeated commitments on issues of gay equality, in what the NYT calls "the largest demonstration for gay rights here in nearly a decade." That protest was preceded the day before by a virtual consensus 0f gay rights activists expressing extreme disappointment and frustration with Obama's speech to the Human Rights Campaign on Saturday night, where he merely repeated the same pledges he's been making for two years with no added specificity or time commitment.
read more at: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/?page=4

just sayin'

[placton]

1. roflmao

an unreccer already: "the truth? you can't handle the truth"

[atreides1]

2. It's back to 0

It seems as if some people here at DU just can't deal with reality. They keep saying wait, first it was "he's only been in office for 3 months", then "he's only been in office for 7 months".

Then it was "he has so much to deal with", they keep making excuses for his failings.

How long do we wait, many here have slammed Creigh Deeds because he supports the opt out option for the states, but Obama seems to be pulling out all of the stops to keep Snow, and that's just totally acceptable.

Come one people, Democrats weren't afraid to point out the failings of Bush. Why do you lack the courage to point out the failings of this administration as well.

We either accept the truth, or we are no better then the Republicans.

[KittyWampus]

6. and a huge number of DU'eres are incapable of posting about anything other than what they perceive

as his "failings".

Which means they've got nothing but their own axes to grind.

The relentless negativity has made DU a useless cesspool for the permanently pissed off to wallow in their own crap.

[placton]

9. ad hominem arguments are so attractive

let's just click our ruby slippers together and pretend Obama has not failed us time and again? There! Doesn't that feel so much better? I agree that Obama has done many good things, specially in foreign policy. But we still have 2 wars, trillions to the rich (along with Goldman Sachs being Obama's farm team), no movement on gay rights, and on and on. This president MUST be criticized by the left!

[KittyWampus]

12. Honey, there was no attack. Just an objective observation born out by scads of evidence

Have you ever posted about anything positive that's being done?

By the way, I posted quite a few threads and my Journal about Obama's lack of leadership on Economy early on. But relentlessly harping on it does nothing except foul the air.

[placton]

23. so my duty

is to post positive things about Obama and the Dems? I've been a Dem since JFK - you know, a real Dem. I have the right to call bullshit, so BULLSHIT! And Kitty? U go ahead and post the + things? Or aren't there many?

[onenote]

3. I think more highly of "my" Obama than of a poster that quotes log cabin repub press releases

without attribution.

As posted elsewhere, the DOJ has an obligation to defend laws that are on the books, including DADT. As for what the DOJ brief actually says...well, I haven't seen it and neither have you, although that hasn't stopped you from drawing conclusions (or rather from using it to back up your already held opinion).

[placton]

4. please respond with reasoned arguments

of your own? Do you claim any of what I posted is untrue? Compare and contrast?

[piratefish08]

8. He campaigned on promises to the gay community. Can you point to any

"non log-cabin Repub" press releases that illustrates anything BUT lip service on DOMA, DADT or gay rights in general?

[HamdenRice]

5. Since when does the White House "direct" the DOJ on the filing of briefs? Oh, since Gonzo left

In a non-lawless administration, the WH does not "direct" the DOJ to file briefs.

[placton]

7. sigh

so Obama just sits and smokes Marlboros as his minions dont follow what he directs? C'mon!

[HamdenRice]

10. The DOJ is historically independent

Except when crooks like Nixon or Bush are in the White House. Remember Watergate and John Mitchell?

Presidents and AGs get impeached for allowing the WH to "direct" the DOJ.

Remember how little control Clinton exercised over Reno?

You can sigh all you like, but the idea that the WH "directed" the DOJ to file this brief is ludicrous.

[placton]

11. let's not forget tort reform

another idea Obama now supports? right from the GOP playbook, and his speech on health care

[Robb]

13. Your arguments fall flat

...as I haven't seen you post a positive thing about Obama since the primaries.

[LWolf]

22. I've rarely had anything positive to say about Obama.

Because I don't have much that's positive to say about center-right politicians, Democrat or Republican, and that's where Obama is.

As he's made increasingly clear since last November. I thought it was pretty clear throughout the primaries, myself.

:shrug:

I see his first term as a disaster of major proportions. A Democratic administration and a Democratic Congress that will accomplish little and go down in flames pandering to the enemy instead of supporting their base.

Just me.

[placton]

24. actually

I haven't seen that much positive to post - tho I did in this thread as I have elsewhere

[tyne]

14. This is exactly

why repubs end up regaining power.

Stupid stupid dems.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

15. *sigh*

[patrice]

16. Though reasoned, what I see here is mostly opinion from secondary sources.

It may be a fact that the Log Cabin Republicans are NOT the best ones to carry this particular ball at this time. Without enough of the technical legalities on the table to compare and contrast with one another, what we have are the opinions of diletantes, more or less just like you and me.

Since this is a (reasoned) battle of opionions, there are expert others who have reasoned arguments against a PO with an opt out.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/10/dfa-opposes-the-opt-out-for-the-public-option/

[patrice]

18. P.S. They ARE Republicans afterall, so you REALLY can't trust what they are up to.

My apologies to my LGBT friends here on the DU, but it is very possible that there is a power struggle within your own movement and unless you personally know each and every person involved in this particular battle and know them honestly and completely, it's all just opinion.

Again, my sincere regrets at casting aspersions upon your own, but it IS a fact, just like you can't trust Blue Dogs.

[liberalmuse]

17. Fuck "Multiple Sources".

Sorry, but any article citing, 'Multiple' or 'Anonymous' Sources is pure shit. Liberals should know better. If people are going slam President Obama, they better fucking do it citing REAL PEOPLE.

[Nikki Stone1]

20. In journalism, high level sources are usually not identified by name

Without that kind of anonymity, the source is often unwilling to reveal information. You need to actually learn something about how journalism works.

[patrice]

21. Just because they aren't named, it does not follow that they must be "high level" sources.

And if you don't want your name on it, it is possible to facilitate multiple-objectives.

[bvar22]

27. Oh Yes.

"Sorry, but any article citing, 'Multiple' or 'Anonymous' Sources is pure shit. Liberals should know better."

Remember "Deep Throat"?

[madokie]

19. -1

just sayin'

[placton]

25. Let me see now?

sources to support my thesis: we are being sold out: dozen or more in last 2 days in 2 threads + many many others by other DUers

sources against my thesis: *crickets chirp*

I rest my case

PS - Unreccs dont count as arguments

[patrice]

26. Just curious, did you tell us why we should support a PO with OU? nt