Bullying isn't kids being kids - people really need to learn more about it

[goddess40]

and it's life altering effects. Most people have been bullied on some occasion in their lives but it's a completely different matter when the bullying is pervasive. If you have to go to school worried about what - not if - is going to happen to you today that is life and brain altering stress. People who make light of bullying, saying they survived and others should just get over it, don't really know what bullying is. Our schools need to get real about this very real problem.

If you'd like to learn more about bullying really works and it's effects read:

The Bully, the Bullied, and the Bystander: From Preschool to High School--How Parents and Teachers Can Help Break the Cycle of Violence by Barbara Coloroso
http://www.amazon.com/Bully-Bullied-Bystander-Preschool-School-How/dp/006001430X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-5118222-1722404?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177018035&sr=8-1
it is the best book I've ever read on bullying

This is a video from Peter, Paul and Mary and I beg everyone to watch it have some tissues ready!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9odXmUKynyE&mode=related...

"Don't Laugh at Me" Lyrics ( http://www.operationrespectct.org/song.htm )

I'm a little boy with glasses, the one they call a "geek"
A little girl who never smiles cuz I got braces on my teeth
And I know how it feels to cry myself to sleep

I'm that kid on every playground who’s always chosen last
A single teenage mother tryin' to overcome my past
You don't have to be my friend but is it too much to ask

Don't laugh at me; don't call me names
Don't get your pleasure from my pain
In God's eyes we're all the same
Some day we'll all have perfect wings
Don't laugh at me

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I don't know what bullying is?

Because I was bullied, and I did get over it. In fact, I don't know anybody who wasn't bullied when they were kids. I also didn't know anybody who at some point didn't bully other kids, when they were kids. Because I was also a bully, and I got over that too.

[goddess40]

3. so it's okay with you that bullying goes on?

kids should just get over it - do you say that to people who are victims of other crimes?

You're talking about random events where kids are seeking their power level, I'm talking about pervasive bullying. Every day brings these kids a fresh hell.

What about special needs kids or kids coming out of a poor home that don't have the in clothes or access to proper personal hygiene

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Part of growing up, IMO...

is learning how to deal with bullies.

Is it okay with me that bullying goes on?

No. I'd love for bullying to stop. Along with sibling rivalry. Making too much noise in the car. That phase where they figure out how to pull thier diapers off. And the explosive diarrhea.

But it ain't going to stop, because that's what kids do.

"What about special needs kids or kids coming out of a poor home that don't have the in clothes or access to proper personal hygiene"

What about them?

[Cetacea]

7. It's a form of abuse.

And some people react to it differently than others, like any other trauma.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Growing up?

I agree.

[Cetacea]

16. No. Your post. lol

J/k

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Ooo, are you teasing me?

:P

[JuniperLea]

37. Abuse born of low self-esteem

So they pick on others to make themselves feel bigger and badder. The bullies need help feeling better about themselves.

I've always pitied the bullies and the bullied. Thankfully, I was never either. But I was known for stepping in when someone else was being picked on. Being the tallest girl in the third through fifth grade had its advantages. Ask Terry Benjensnorf... I beat his sorry little ass for picking on my cousin Tina on our way home from school. We never had to worry about him picking on her again after that. When his mom came to my house to complain to my mom about what I had done, my mom politely asked her in for coffee... the lady declined... so my mom politely told her that her son needed more attention from his mother and father, and would the lady kindly do her job as a parent so little girls don't have to worry about him picking on them when they walk home from school. The lady was livid... my mom never broke a sweat, never batted an eye. After they left, she told me and Tina to go pray for Terry because he was a very sad little boy. She was brilliant.

[goddess40]

55. That's what school officials would like us to believe

but most bullies have a robust self-esteem. Look at who is in the White House, Bush and Cheney are some of the biggest bullies in the world.

Remember back to high school and how the jocks had free run to do just about anything?

[treestar]

11. So who gets to do the bullying? How do they "grow up?"

Sorry, it is the bully who is the sick one - that's what's wrong with the way we approach this issue. We should focus our attention on the bully and how the bully is the one in the wrong.

Nobody needs a bully to "grow up" thank you very much. It's the bully who has the problem.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Everybody gets to do the bullying.

Show me somebody who claims they were never a bully when they were a child, and I'll show you a liar.

[Tyler Durden]

60. I'm a liar.

Sorry you think so. I never, NEVER picked on another child in my youth, because I was the butt of so much bullying.

You don't know me, and your statement is nonsense.

[Occulus]

63. I have that poster on ignore.

However, I recognize the pattern of your responses from seeing it happen on other threads, so I'm guessing it's one of about six posters (maybe they're all sock puppets?) who go out of their way to ruin DU by being intentionally obtuse fuckniks. They get away with it because you can't codify "intentionally obtuse" in the DU rules.

Added before posting: I read downthread. I'm almost 100% certain I now know who it is. Contrary to what I said in another thread on bullying, in this case, Ignoring it really does make it go away!

[Raksha]

69. Now that is just flat-out insulting to a lot of us here, including me. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Serious Bullying isn't "what kids do" any more than school shooting or gay bashing is.

It can, and should, be addressed seriously and stopped whenever possible. School is for learning, not for being harassed or beaten on a daily basis- and that's what happens to some kids, particularly in situations where adults think it's "no big deal", "funny", "part of growing up" or "something to learn to deal with".

In other situations and school districts, where it is treated as the serious behavior problem and disruption to the learning environment that it is, would-be bullies either learn to respect others, or at the very least muddle through without expressing their urges to pick on other kids.

[TahitiNut]

15. Actually, it often results in trauma or arrested (emotional) development.

Far from "growing up," bullies typically adopt life-long habits of ganging up, sabotage, bushwhacking, and other socially destructive behavior - a perverted playground perspective. It's not surprising to encounter the bullied becoming bullies themselves - it's like generational child abuse. In times of stress, we all tend to fall back to earliest learned behaviors - repeating what was modeled.

It appalls me that we give a "pass" to the behavior of children which, if they were adults, would be at least a Class A misdemeanor if not felonious. Just because it's so common that it's become banal doesn't mean it's healthy or not harmful. It is harmful and has absolutely no socially-redeeming value of any kind.

[JuniperLea]

40. Bullies are sad little kids

I feel for the bullies and the bullied.

[mudesi]

22. Just because you didn't fall through the cracks....

....does not mean others didn't fall through the cracks. Bullying is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with, and it has serious consequences, one of them being the events of Monday.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. So you're saying we should have zero tolerance for bullying?

[Warren DeMontague]

25. I think there should be damn close to zero tolerance, yes.

If we can expel kids for bringing asprin to school, we can sure as hell put a stop to serial harassment.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. See, now that's what strikes me as funny.

Because zero tolerance is just another form of bullying.

It doesn't matter who or where or why of if, zero tolerance is just about being as mean to a kid as legally possible.

So Butch the Bully gave a kid a purple nurple? We better expel him and charge him with assault. It doesn't do anybody any good, but it makes us feel better.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. No, we're not talking about "butch the bully" giving some kid a "purple nurple"

we're talking about serial harassment of kids that causes long-term damage and fucks up the learning environment. School isn't the place for "butch the bully" to work out his own insecurities through his aggression on smaller kids who, in turn, need to learn to "get over it". School is for kids to learn.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Yeah.

School is a place for Butch the Bully not to give other kids purple nurples, not the place where adults frightened by isolated random acts of violence can feel better about themselves by being mean to Butch.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. You're not even making sense, now.

But I'm sure you're very passionate in wanting to protect the right of kids to get off on picking on other kids, or whatever the fuck else it is you think you're protecting.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. I don't want to protect kids, eh?

Now who's being a bully?

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Hey, look, you cracked yourself up. That's gotta be worth something.

Quite an accomplishment.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Yeah, but I'm laughing with me, not at me.

I'm glad to see you take the bullying issue so seriously, Impeach.

:patriot:

[Warren DeMontague]

41. I've seen what it can do to kids. I've seen kids who couldn't learn.

That's not right. I'm not someone who believes in micro-managing childhood, not in the least- and I certainly understand about "letting kids be kids". But that doesn't mean allowing schools to be turned into hostile environments for kids who are excessively picked on.

[goddess40]

57. impeachdubya said "close to" zero tolerance

because zero tolerance is for simple minded and lazy people who don't want to fix any issue they just want to give the appearance that they are doing something. Zero tolerance means you don't have to investigate why something happened or even what the real circumstances are.
A kid defending themselves against a bully isn't the same as two equally powered kids having a fight but most school districts would judge the incidents as being the same and throw all the participants out - but districts where they have real rules about bullying would see the difference and act accordingly.

[SmokingJacket]

28. Actually you're talking about something else.

Severe bullying truly is a different matter -- it's so long-standing that the kid forgets life could ever be a different way. It's having no friends, no support, utterly destructive of a kid's sense of self. I was bullied pretty badly and while I'm MORE than over it -- I consider myself one of the most loved and successful people I know -- I'll never forget what it was like feeling hated and mocked by everyone in my school. It does something to you.

I'm not excusing the Virginia killer *AT ALL.* I know plenty of bullied people who managed to get their shit together later -- but those people all had something else to get them through those years. They had loving parents, or a special talent, or just a strong sense of internal optimism. And there's never any excuse for hurting another person.

But it's no coincidence that these shooters are all unpopular bullied kids. There's no motivation if they're loved and treated kindly by at least ONE person in their lives. Changing that dynamic, if it's at all possible, is a worthy goal.

[kirby]

43. Your attitude is the problem...

"Part of growing up, IMO..." - is EXACTLY the reason the issue is not taken seriously. Its exactly why kids aren't immediately given detention, suspended, or ultimately expelled when they bully. Its why those bullies grow up to become President and bully other people. In our childrens most formative years, we allow this become tolerated behavior...

[ends_dont_justify]

13. You obviously weren't bullied very badly, then N/T

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Is that what your crystal ball says?

[ourbluenation]

35. I never bullied and I never was bullied.

[JuniperLea]

42. Me too... Looks like we were lucky...

There are TONS of bullies here... ever wonder how they were as kids?

I think bullies are sad little people, no matter how old they are.

[ourbluenation]

44. Hey there Juni! 10-4 on the bullies here.

I've been verbally bantered about a bit here, but children aren't so easily able to brush it off or defend themselves. I hate it.

[JuniperLea]

46. Me too...

I just had a self-professed mental health professional snub me... for seeing a pattern... uh huh... I asked him/her to name one "shooter" who wasn't bullied... we shall see... I've not found one.


:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. If you're so non-chalant, then your bullying must have been neither

serious nor long-lasting.

Try being laughed at, called names, sabotaged, treated as a joke every day at school, all through grades seven, eight, and nine. It let up some in senior high school, but I had to go to college to find an environment where I wasn't the favored target of the "Heathers." (This was years before the movie came out, but that's what my bullies were, Heathers.)

For years afterward, I had problems with self-image and trust. I don't think I'm free of the effects yet.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fasttense]

2. I honestly believe some older man raped him as a child.

Randi finally said what I've been thinking for the past two days.

I don't think the bullying was the sole reason for his berserk behavior. Not that that excuses his behavior but the kid seemed to be suffering from some very serious trauma. Too bad no one could help him before he lost control.

[Cetacea]

8. Combination of the two.

The play he wrote, was, in my opinion, a huge red flag. A history of being humiliated at school was also something I suspected right off.

[theboss]

5. Bullying is an issue that schools need to get better at controlling

I have a young cousin who had a rough school year because of bullying. The principal seemed clueless in handling it.

But I think this issue goes well beyond bullying. I would estimate that 70 to 75 percent of kids get bullied. Of those, .0001 percent of them end up as mass murderers.

So, I'm not sure that the approach needs to be "Stop bulliny or you will create the next Columbine!!!"

I think it should be "Stop bullying because it makes you look like an asshole."

[earthlover]

6. it does seem to be a disturbing pattern....

While of course most bullied children don't grow up to be mass murderers, it does seem that more than a fair share of school killers were bullied earlier.

To those who say a majority of bullied kids turn out fine, I would counter that a majority of cigarette smokers don't get cancer. Doesn't mean cigarettes can't kill....

[Critters2]

10. I agree. And it is NOT a part of growing up for every kid

My brother has Aspberger Syndrome, a diagnosis which didn't even exist when we were in school He was just "weird", and high school was a living hell for him. I'm grateful that he is surrounded by a strong and supportive community now, made up of church-related friends, grad school classmates and 12 step peers. But I know what he went through in high school has left its scars.

No one should be treated that way.

[ends_dont_justify]

14. Bullying to kids is what neocons are to congress

An ignored and dangerous part of the country which is not necessary, but highly disputed and highly supported by morons.

[Deja Q]

18. In which case, our society has itself to blame. Wait, we're not a society.

"We're individual men, women, and families." - Margaret Thatcher, being bold in 1987 but ending up a damn fool today.

:(

[mudesi]

K & R. Everyone needs to educate themselves on this

It is not "part of growing up". It is child abuse, period.

[medeak]

21. sarcasm was best retort with both my sons

they both were bullied but not for long...most bullies are idiots anyway... starting in 1st grade.. "oh...you REALLY hurt my feelings"..pretty much solved the problems that school officials couldn't

[Morgana LaFey]

48. Don't imagine that will work for every one or in every situation

In fact, your shrug off of bullying strikes me as cavalier.

[medeak]

49. takes bully's power away.

Also was effective in Jr. High. Oldest was very tall...but my youngest was tiny and a target...but he had incredible vocabulary and debate skills and used them.

I don't understand your post...cavalier? Was just trying to offer advice that worked for us as teachers and principal offered no help whatsoever...and if they interfered the situation exacerbated. It's a very tough scenario.

Also raised a nephew who moved in with me from CA for high school due to family problems. He was harrassed unbelievably by Indians here as he was a surfer dude and although 6'4" with striking looks and blonde hair...actually made him more of a target. He never got the hang of it...tried to be friends..."I just want to be your friend dude..not fight"...his approach didn't work at all.

edited to say... your posts here are not very kind ironically on a bullying thread imo

[Morgana LaFey]

52. and will EMpower others.

Some will be shut up by that approach, and others will just take it as an invitation to escalate.

I think it's worth a try -- but I also want people to understand it may not be the panacea you suggest.

[medeak]

53. cavalier and panacea

my..my..

at any rate was fortunate in that my Mom was phd who spent career as counselor in secondary education. Wrote many papers on child development and gave me sage advice I couldn't get from my sons' administrators. She was eventually named to determine the curriculum for population base of over 1 million.

When you call my posts "cavalier" and "panacea" I ask what pray tell gives you the authority to do so. Am not one to throw around weight around. Just do search on me and you will find me quite placid on this site. The judgemental posts bother me in the respect that am offering sound advice that I was fortunate to receive.

[Morgana LaFey]

67. Too bad she didn't have any good advice for

the overly sensitive.

On what authority? Oh, please. This is a discussion forum. And yes, I think the advice you offered was "sound" -- but incomplete. I find it absolutely shocking how defensive you feel the need to be on the matter.

[medeak]

70. LOL

a friend is doing dissertation on borderline personality disorders on discussion boards. no comment.

[Evoman]

24. Bullying wouldn't be a problem if we gave all the kids guns.

:hide:

[cyborg_jim]

30. Witty and compact. Excellent satire.

[ourbluenation]

34. My daughter was bullied by the "mean girls". It was incideous.

the target shifts...anxiety is always there wondering if you're next. oh, and girls have their own special version of bullying sometimes...they exclude and ostricize in the cruelest fashion.

[medeak]

51. makes me grateful I didn't have girls.

have friends who tell me horror stories...truly think girls have a harder time in junior high than anyone. Was so glad Tina Fey made a statement re so.

[David Zephyr]

36. K&R

Thanks.

[EFerrari]

38. This may be a strange comparison but I'm bringing up a puppy.

We go to a dog park every day.

She finds other dogs her age to play with.

Sometimes, one of those dogs gets too agressive and bites and that's not all right.

Sometimes, she and her peers take turns wrestling each other to the ground. That's just normal development.

There's a big difference between playing, even serious playing and drawing blood. All kids do the former and no kid needs to give or take the latter.

[medeak]

50. awe...

thanks for that uplifting visual...some of these posts were getting rather mean? ;-)

[NashVegas]

72. The Puppy / Animal Abuse Analogy

Is probably the most comprehensible to some.

Everyone knows that if you mistreat a pup, the pup is either going to grow up into a mean dog, or a dog that cowers 95% of the time and mistakenly attacks the other 5%.

Some people assume that because humans can rationalize behavior, it's easily shrugged off, if one makes the effort. What they don't get is that is that rational solutions are mere band-aids.

[EFerrari]

73. These big brains were probably not a good idea after all.

lol

[opihimoimoi]

54. Abusive Behavior, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Bullies

have their roots in childhood and blossoms into adulthood. Most of them will be bullies for the duration of their lives.....ditto for the NPD and Abusive peeps too. IMHO

[RebelOne]

56. The son of a co-worker was badly bullied in school. He killed himself.

One day, he took his father's gun to school, stood up in class and said he wasn't going to take it any more. He then shot himself in the head. He died instantly.

[goddess40]

58. That is called bullicide

It's a very sad day when a child feels that bad about life that it isn't worth living. I hope that school district is implementing a real anti-bullying program so that this childs death has some meaning.

[RebelOne]

61. His parents have been pushing for anti-bullying programs at schools

all over the U.S. They have appeared on numerous talk TV shows including Oprah Winfrey.

[misternormal]

59. Lotsa bullying going on in this thread... n/t

[Occulus]

64. Read my post upthread

Some people love to bully others. Just remember, we do have an Ignore feature- which I've previously availed myself of regarding people who post such as this person or persons did.

I'm betting it's one of the intentionally obtuse fucknicks I mentioned above, acting like a hooligan. :) Unfortunately, the DU rules don't cover bullying or intentional obtuseness, as far as I know. It's been a while since I read them; perhaps I should again.

[ends_dont_justify]

71. My list is getting larger by the day *lol*

I can't help but wonder how many people I've gotten to block me. At first I just posted the way I do because, you don't learn things by people agreeing with you. I often play devil's advocate to my own views to get people to better learn to agree with what I do. I feel bad for the people who really feel some of these ways though...

[jmondine]

62. Double Standard

We don't tolerate assault and battery in adults. I've often wondered why we tolerate it amongst our children.

[PA Democrat]

65. Here are some free resources on bullying.

http://www.schoolsafety.us/pubfiles/bullying_fact_sheets.pdf

http://www.lfcc.on.ca/bully.htm

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/bullies.html

[undergroundpanther]

66. Bullying

Is NOT NORMAL. Little kids are not born attacking other babies.It is sick a cultural sickness kids learn taught by ADULTS and their UNRESOLVED issues around power social esteem rank and pecking order bullshit.Normal the entire concept is a LIE. We are all different and we must stop trying to make everyone the same.

Also the way our culture is so atomized it makes it easier to dehumanize.If you can go home and shut the door and not see the bullied kid suffer.Just like bullies verbally abuse on the net that buffer zone where nobody cares and too many people stand by and play make believe what they saw was not really a bully dishing out undeserved sadistic abuse, that lying to yourself and minimizing bystanders do about the very real harm abuse causes the victim is what keeps bullies around and assuming they can get away with their sadism. By standing enabling and minimizing the voices of victims because the pain makes the listener squirm and feel shame is pathetic yet our culture is full of people who don't care..Well it SHOULD care bullying is shameful and if as a culture we do not stop this denial game we will be recreating over and over more generations with their hearts and minds put in torment by bullies .Not every bullied kid takes out a gun and shoots people,but some will when they cannot endure it anymore and don't know how to cope because the pain and fear is overwhelming.Especially if their lives are torn apart and they have NO ONE around who cares or even listens or even dares to protect them from the bullies killing them from the inside out and the bystanders and enablers they by their inaction and passive acceptance of bullying make sure the scapegoats suffer. It is not just the bully who is guilty it is the bystanders and enablers who share some of the guilt ..and our society is full of them...

[ends_dont_justify]

68. Falling on deaf ears

The bullied understand it and the bullies don't want us to believe it. Instead, let's all point and laugh at the people who disagree with this because their inadequacy leads them to mock others.

[fasttense]

74. Something some folks here are forgetting is that bullying

is not just verbal and humiliation. It involves physical attacks and gangs beating up on individuals.

My 15 year old niece was caught with a knife in school. When the the teacher saw it in her locker, he asked her why she had it, as he walked her to the principal. She said it was to protect herself from a group of girls who wanted to beat her up. My niece was new to an all white rural middle class school and had few friends. The school has a great reputation.

They found her to be an easy target. They had already attacked her once and she got away with only a clump of hair pulled out and a large lump on the back of head. She never told anyone. But when she was being held accountable for protecting herself, she showed them her injuries and named names. My sister is considering filing charges against the gang of girls for assault.

Bullies like that will not go away with a smart comeback. They can't be ignored.