This I Think Is Why FORD (Motor Company) is Going Down. >>

[The Cleaner]

This is the 2007 Ford Expedition EXTENDED LENGTH. I saw a commcercial for this largest of SUV's (aside from the Hummer of course) and nearly puked.

Why in an age of finite oil resources, high gas prices, and global warming is Ford STILL irresponsibly promoting these gas-guzzling monsters??

It just doesn't make sense. While many pundits say Ford's late entry into the hybrid market is why they've had trouble, they're STILL promoting these giganticus gas hogs.

Let's just see how many people buy 'em.

[movie_girl99]

1. they also quit making the Focus

which was a huge seller for them. I think now the smallest car is the Fusion? People are down scaling because of gas prices and Ford can't compete.

[madokie]

4. a perfect example of bad decisions

I'm a ford man who has tried them all pretty much. ford is having problems but not because of quality of product.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. They may be gas-sucking behemoth road hogs

but they're very good gas sucking behemoth road hogs.

[Clark2008]

29. LOL - that's probably true.

Although, I get great gas mileage out of my Mustang.

[Clark2008]

28. Thank you.

I never had problem one out of my Fords, but my ex husband's variety of Nissans were always giving us grief - usually electrical.

[Sock Puppet]

5. They just rolled out a 2008 model

I don't think they stopped making the Focus.

[Rosemary2205]

14. This is wrong - Ford still builds and sells the focus

[movie_girl99]

33. I stand corrected...thanks! n/t

[dapper]

58. It's the Taurus, the Taurus

They stopped producing them. It was, if I remember correctly, the best selling cars based on Rental Car companies purchasing them.

Actually, I believe the real issue is the compensation that Executives receive and bad planning on the retirement plans they gave employees.

as a side note, I know a guy who worked for the Carpenters union who probably retired about 15 years ago. He is still making the same amount of money now that he was making then thanks to his retirement plan. I wonder if the reason why we are doing twice the work now than we were doing 15 years ago is a direct result of paying these pensions?!!?

Dapper

[conscious evolution]

97. You have a problem with pensions?

Let me guess.You would rather invest in the stock market.

[kestrel91316]

39. They QUIT MAKING THE FOCUS????????

WTF is wrong with these people??

Everybody I know who had one loved their Focus. Go figure.

[AlCzervik]

43. the Focus is really popular in Europe, when i was in London they were all over

the place and the UK version looks pretty cool.

[Strelnikov_]

52. And it comes in diesel

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/ford-focus-c-max-tdci-diesel-range-1003932.html

[cosmicdot]

66. is that available only in the UK?

from the uk.cars.yahoo.com link:

Facts At A Glance
CAR: Ford Focus C-MAX TDCI diesel range
PRICES: £15,295-£19,045 - on the road
INSURANCE GROUPS: 7E-8E
CO2 EMISSIONS: 129-148g/km
PERFORMANCE: <2.0 TDCi> Max Speed 125mph / 0-60mph 9.3s
FUEL CONSUMPTION: <2.0 TDCi> (combined) 50.4mpg
STANDARD SAFETY FEATURES: Twin front, side and curtain airbags, ABS, EBA
WILL IT FIT IN YOUR GARAGE?: Length/Width/Heightmm 4333/1825/1558


from Ford Focus North American website:

Fuel Economy
EPA Est MPG: 27 City/37 Highway
EPA Est MPG: 27 City/37 Highway
EPA Est MPG: 23 City/32 Highway

http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/focus/features/specs/

[Strelnikov_]

96. To the best of my knowledge, Europe only n/t

[SusanaMontana41]

71. I didn't know that

We rented a Focus once. Peppy car.

[rateyes]

75. I just bought a 2007 Focus...

you sure about that?

[YOY]

2. Someone on the board of directors (probably several someones)

is a frigging idiot who is not seeing a trend let alone interesting in setting new trends.

[Skidmore]

3. Someone needs to tell their Board of Directors that dinosaurs

become extinct.

[MadHound]

6. This is the same scenario that was first done in the '70s

Big Three automakers cranking out gas guzzling behemoths. Then gas prices start to rise, and the Big Three take an abnormally long time to switch over to smaller, more fuel efficient cars. They lose massive amounts of sales, at least one goes in the toilet, and our corporate friendly government will bail them out. Happened once before, and sadly the Americans didn't learn their lesson the first time, hence they're repeating their mistake all over again. And gee, when they finally do start coming out with smaller, more efficient cars, they will be pieces of crap, like the exploding Pinto:eyes:

And people wonder why more and more consumers are opting for foreign cars.

[raccoon]

7. Yep. Same crap, different decade. nt

[YOY]

16. Is is just me or is the first decade of the 21st Century very reminiscent of the 70s?

Crappy war. Dipshit lying pubs in office. Crappy economy. Folks worried. American autos in trouble. Gasoline prices questionable...

Good thing they can't blame it on us now. It was never really Carter's fault either back then.

[Norrin Radd]

20. Minus the great new musicians. In fact, the best of what we have now

started then.

[YOY]

31. We got more out of the 90s than we knew what to do with

Other than those folks, the latest 'sensations' that Clear Channel/whoever-the-fuck-corporate-radio-is-these-days plays as the 'next big thing' are truly drivel that makes me want to kick in the radio.

Is someone gonna tell me that this song has any goddamn substance at all? Fricking fluff that samples the goddamn Sound of Music to a fomer-rocker-trampy-pop-diva...

"Wind it up
Wind it up, uh, uh, uh, uh
Yodellay, yodallay, yodal-low

(Yeah)
This is the key that makes us wind up
When the beat comes on, the girls all line up
And the boys all look, but no, they can't touch
But the girls want to know why the boys like us so much

They like the we dance, they like the way we work
They like that way that L.A.M.B. is going across my shirt
They like the way my pants, it compliments my shape (She's crazy, right?)
They like the way we react everytime we dance"

This shit makes me want to claw out my ears...It's like shitty disco made a comeback and there's no Supertramp, Rush, or Led Zeppelin as an alternative...

[tabasco]

40. It doesn't keep me from searching though!

The greatest thing about the internet is all the free music!

[raccoon]

37. Yes, it is similar in a lot of ways.

Except the music isn't as good as then, IMO. :-)

[Hippo_Tron]

84. Yea, except I don't think we'll ever again elect someone as honest as Jimmy Carter

It's a shame.

[corkhead]

59. They are the Detroit Lions of car companies. They were good way back when, before I was born.

If you don't know, the Lions are owned by the Ford Family. They run the team like they do the car company. A failed inbred monarchy.

[catabryna]

36. Couldn't have possibily put it any better myself!

There's nothing more to add.

[JeffR]

72. This can't be stressed enough

Detroit has been here before, was taught some painful lessons by the marketplace, suffered severely, and apparently learned nothing from the experience. Amazing & pathetic.

[n2doc]

8. I think it is longer than the Hummer

These Land Tankers were popular in South Texas, at least until prices went over $2 a gallon. I can't imagine trying to drive one of these around a city, it would be like driving a UPS truck.

Of course, the only people to suffer from Ford's itiocy will be its workers, as they are layed off and forced to reduce their retierement and healthcare. The CEO and BOD will walk away with millions.

[The Cleaner]

15. Notice how they advertise - not for utility, but for FAMILY.

Tricky, 'eh? Yep - they want FAMILIES to drive these massive suckers around the city. You know, to your kids' ball games, to the park, on long cross country family trips (would be cheaper to FLY at that point).

By the way I'm in TX, everything's "bigger in Texas," land of huge trucks and SUVs. To their detriment I might add.

[meegbear]

9. I thought the American Family Associtaion's boycott of Ford ...

for supporting gay causes was the reason. That's what they said, so it must be true.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. But does it include a police escort and oversize vehicle permits?

What a joke. Ford deserves to go down.

[TZ]

11. They think we all love pick up trucks..

I really get tired of the marketing which suggests that pickup trucks are macho and "all american" (GM and to some extent Daimler-Chrysler are guilty of that too) and while they are helpful to some groups of people somehow I don't think there are as many people who really need them as Ford seems to think. Meanwhile, economical and quality products get ignored. Same line of thinking with these monster SUV's. They do not understand the current American consumer very well, I think
My uncle loves his Escort, and although he doesn't drive much has never had a problem with it and its 10 years old now. He is not the only one I have heard lament their loss..

[Wapsie B]

26. I don't care for pickups all that much.

Never did, especially meeting some of these over-sized monsters on the road. Some people have issues with Hummer drivers. I don't any more than I have with monster trucks who seem to own the road wherever they go.


Belated Welcome to DU!

[sharp_stick]

48. I don't mind pickups

as long as they're being used. Most people tend to haul nothing but air in the damned things, that's when I hate them. If there aren't any scratches in the box you don't need a pickup.

[Clark2008]

30. Many of us do.

I don't, btw, but I was looking over some stats recently to prepare for a meeting and discovered that people simply LOVE their F-150s. They've been the top sellers in various cities in the South for at least three years running (that's as far back as the stats were I was looking at).

So, apparently, enough people love their pickup trucks to keep purchasing them, despite gas prices.

[no_hypocrisy]

13. Another huge error: Ford stopped production of the Taurus.

It was the bestseller for passenger car for more than a decade. People still wanted them and Ford stopped making them.

As for the Extended-Length Expedition, WTF? Where are owners supposed to park those monsters in a normal parking space without it sticking out or hitting another car when backing up?

[noonwitch]

23. That was a popular and safe car

My sister has a Taurus. It's a good family car, doesn't get bad mileage for it's size, and works out well for her to haul the kids around in.

[dapper]

62. I was too late..

I mentioned it was the Taurus as well.

[jmowreader]

68. The Taurus was America's Fleet Car

The reasons are completely understandable: it wasn't all that expensive, especially if purchased in bulk; it was fairly fuel efficient; most of the car was reliable (except for the fucking transmission they put in it; Ford's AXOD transmission losing all four forward gears at the same time was a fairly common occurrence); and it was big enough to haul around five government employees or two cops and three arrestees.

Add it all up and you can see that for the wise fleet buyer, the Taurus was really the only logical choice. This is why the Taurus was Number One With A Bullet for so many years. Most Taurus buyers got them by the trainload.

The same fate befell the Chevrolet Caprice Classic. For YEARS the Caprice Classic was America's Cop Car . It had the six things every peace officer wants: horsepower, electrical capacity, room in the back seat, a massive trunk, rear-wheel drive, and a design that screams out "slow down!" Alas, some moran at GM looked at the single-unit sales, not the fleet sales, and decided the car had outlived its usefulness. Now Ford owns the RWD police car market with the Crown Vic.

[nolabels]

69. Their vanilla flavored Rangers are pretty good too

We have several older Fords we use and just picked up an 02 Taurus with real low miles in excellent shape for use as a spare. The people who want to dog Ford are ignorant to the fact that it is a business and therefore more susceptible to market pressure than they are to criticism. With out a doubt Ford is less tuned in to criticism from the customers and other critics. The thing is they will always be forced to react to market forces much more than any detractors. Simple rule, for any, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

[eppur_se_muova]

82. Can't remember where I heard this ... but I think the Taurus had transmission problems.

Someone was telling me that they were trying to get rid of a used Taurus, which was perfectly good except for the transmission. Problem was, he couldn't get a good price for it because there were a LOT of Tauruses (Tauri?) with bad transmissions on the market.

Ah, Google:

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=564&scid=10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AXOD_transmission

[sakabatou]

17. WTH?!

[BlueJazz]

18. I HATE driving behind these pieces-of-shit......

...you can't see anything in front of them.
It's like driving in back of a brick wall...

[RB TexLa]

19. They build them because people buy them

[The Cleaner]

24. So Ford is not responsible for building a gas-guzzling, environmentally damaging, low MPG SUV?

I don't buy your argument.

What ever happened to corporate responsibility?

[Clark2008]

65. Not so much as the buying public who keeps demanding them.

Ford sells a lot of small- to mid-sized cars; however, they don't sell like the Living Room/SUV variety.

Why is that?

It's not just their advertising... it's something else about the typically American persona.

[ArbustoBuster]

90. I think the presence of these things on the road causes other people to buy them in self-defense.

As a poster downthread mentioned, if you're driving a responsible small car and are hit by one of these things, you're dead. If you're in an SUV and get hit by one of these things, your chances of survival go up a bit because of the extra mass around you. Of course, if you're in an SUV and you get hit by a Mack truck you're also SOL, so my theory at this point breaks down.

[raccoon]

67. Corporate responsibility? It's extinct. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

85. So why is Ford having so many financial problems?

[Tyo]

21. Look at the size of that thing!

The picture remeinds me of those car ads in late '40s and '50s car which showed the car being much larger in proportion to the passengers than it really was. Now they don't have to exagerate anymore. The man in the driver's seat looks like he's behind the wheel of a semi and that's probably an accurate depiction.

[TZ]

27. If one of these monsters hit me

in an accident I would be dead. I drive a Toyota Celica (yes a sports car but gets really good gas mileage along with being great to drive) and I can see even a normal rear end accident would mangle my much smaller car, which is also so low to the ground I might get crunched under it. Thats what really scares me with these huge monsters...:scared:

[Tyo]

35. Give me your Celica any day

All other issues aside, where is the pleasure in driving one of these monsters? :shrug:

Maybe it's just me, but driving my living room around is not my idea of a good time. I must point out here that our living room is much more tastefully appointed than these pieces of crap but even so, I have no desire to take it on the road. :D

[MikeDuffy]

83. According to this article, your fear may be unfounded:

http://www.energybulletin.net/25254.html

[TZ]

91. maybe

but when I see one of these huge SUV's tailgating me in my car its very intimidating...which is probably the point when you think about it...

[Norrin Radd]

22. And, of course, idiots here in Seattle get them

and park them in the "compact" parking spaces. It's ridiculous that people think these vehicles are appropriate for the city. Or at all, for that matter.

[Blue Belle]

34. Oh! That drives me crazy too....

Or they take up two spaces because their vehicle is too big! Hello! Did it ever occur to them that they are driving a glorified short school bus?

[Norrin Radd]

98. The short bus. That explains things. ;^)

[Clark2008]

25. No - they're going down because our country won't provide

national health care.

It's becoming extremely difficult for any American company to compete as a result. Heck, even Ford and GM are beginning to realize this.

I drive a Ford. A Mustang. It gets great gas mileage for a six-cylander vehicle, can take a hit (because I had one that did) against a semi on the interstate I must travel daily to get and from work and doesn't, well, look like a bubble.

The do promote other cars - but their trucks are the No. 1 best sellers in my town and others. Why? Because people DO still want them.

Go figure.

[The Cleaner]

32. But if they had recognized the trend and started selling crossovers/hybrids earlier,

they would have had more profitibility and wouldn't have had to struggle with high health care costs as much.

Have you ever seen Michael Moore's film about the auto industry (the title escapes me now)? He found while the auto industry was making record profits they were STILL laying Detroit workers off in droves. And this was way BEFORE high health care costs.
:shrug:

[raccoon]

38. Roger and Me.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0098213/

[Clark2008]

55. Health care costs have been rising for decades.

How could that be before Roger & Me (and, yes, I've seen it).

The problems with providing health care affect all manufacturing - and, yes, there's a problem with CEO bennies everywhere, too.

However, back to your other premise: hybrids. I can't afford one, can you?

$30,000 for a car I'd be scared to drive around all those semis on the interstates I must travel to get to work (and I work in the same town where I live - 30 miles roundtrip - so I'm not overly commuting, either)? No thanks. I bought a regular car for a little over half that price that I feel safe driving. Most hybrids are too pricey and too small (I bought a mid-sized car, so I'm not necessarily talking about HUGE SUVs or anything - just bigger than a, well, bubble).

Hybrids aren't going to sell to the masses until they become more physically appealing and until they're more affordable. They are popular, but only with a certain set of people who can afford them and/or who don't have to fight with 18-wheelers on a daily basis.

[The Cleaner]

70. You are misinformed on hybrids for sure.

Do you know some car companies currently sell hybrid SUVs? Most people don't know that- they don't advertise 'em - they'd rather advertise the huge gas guzzlers. So much for the "hybrids are too small" argument.

But at the same time the hot selling Toyota hybrid is no mini-cooper. It's a normal size in the compact category. Hell I used to live in DC going on the beltway, 270, etc. in my Chevy cavalier, with tons of pickups and SUVs all around me, everyone else does the same. What do you expect? So you should buy a big rig just to "feel safe?" it doesn't make sense...

And on pricing...what the hell do you think SUV's run for these days, pennies? That $30K price you quote for hybrids is actually CHEAP compared to SUV's!! Have you priced out the Toyota hybrid? It's not $30K.

But this is what I'm talking about. Ford and the other autos are irresponsibly promoting gas guzzlers and ignoring the responsible vehicles.

[Tatiana]

92. The Ford Escape is available with a hybrid engine.

It's a nice smaller-sized SUV.

[Ian David]

41. They should just roll-out The Ford Rapture. n/t

[Xenotime]

42. Ford makes those huge "status" cars pugs like to drive.

[Apollo11]

44. I get more than 40 mpg in my European Ford Fusion

The European Ford Fusion is a cute little car. Mine has a TDCi diesel engine.
See: http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/fusion/-/fus_0508_intro/-/-/-/-

It's part of the range which has made Ford so successful in Europe. It Great Britain they have been the number one car manufacturer for the past 30 years - without a break. Around 1 in 5 new cars sold in Great Britain is a Ford.

Why they don't offer more smaller cars in North America is a mystery to me ...

[Clark2008]

63. Because they don't sell.

The problem isn't so much with Ford as it is with the buying public.

Maybe that will change as oil/gas costs continues to rise.

[The Cleaner]

89. Have you seen "Who Killed the Electric Car?"

That documentary just about proved it's not the demand that's the problem. The EV was a compact car, not sub-compact though; and one of the reasons they killed the program was because demand would have been TOO HIGH and it would have put the oil/gas companies (along with many others) out of business.

If you were offered a perfect car you didn't have to maintain or put gas into that doesn't pollute the environment, like the EV, do you think the public would say, "Nah, i don't think so, i don't feel safe, I'll choose my gas guzzling SUV I have to pour thousands per year into for gas and upkeep."???

Rather they'd take it in a heartbeat, safe or not.

Car companies like Ford are irresponsible by promoting huge SUVs.

[kineneb]

45. perfect for the family...to move into

that monster is big enough to be called an RV, just needs a kitchen and porta-potty... perfect for the soon-to-be homeless from the real estate bubble "pop"...

[xultar]

46. Hardly. They are going down cuz their cars and trucks are UGLY AS FUCK.

[donco6]

47. Ford owns Volvo. And I like my Volvo.

Just sayin' . . .

[Parche]

49. New SUV's

This is the new Ford 'Battleship'





This is the new Ford "Gigantica"

[wtmusic]

50. "Take it all in" - how appropriate

Bend over, planet.

[Batgirl]

51. These gigantic, ice-cream-truck looking things crack me up

Maybe people buy them because of a deep subconcious desire to crawl back into a protective womb full of 5 gallon drums of rocky road.

[progressoid]

53. Don't worry. The gubmint will bail them out and then we'll all marvel at their amazing recovery

like Lee Iococca and Chrysler.

[treestar]

64. Don't you love how hypocritical of Repukes that is, when giving

a little $$ to the more bothers them so much?

:mad:

[progressoid]

76. Yep - I had a RWer tell me how corporations need tax breaks and

bail-outs because the system is unfair. But he couldn't see the hypocrisy that his "free market" isn't free or that his anti-welfare stance didn't apply to business.

[bikebloke]

54. Another part of Ford's problem

When the BBC World Service reported Ford's loss, they also mentioned that their white collar workers would stll receive their bonuses.

[maxsolomon]

56. what would the insurgents use if ford didn't step up?

now seats 7 fake iraqi commandos!

[bleedingheart]

57. The funniest thing about big SUV's are the drivers...

they will literally come to a full stop to go over a speed bump in their "rugged" vehicle.

they will also swerve into my lane in order to make turns because they think they are driving a semi...now that is even more pathetic for the Ford SUV drivers because Ford's actually have an excellent turning radius and they don't need to do that but the imbeciles think they have too...

I have almost been sideswiped at least a dozen times by people who can't turn their SUV.

My hubby and I rented a Ford Explorer in Colorado, I was impressed by the roominess and the turning radius but the gas mileage was horrific....but it was a useful car for what we were doing and the number of people we hauled around (6 people) and luggage.

[TZ]

60. think they are invincible..

Have you ever noticed when there is snow or ice that the SUV drivers are involved in more accidents because they think that whatever weather there is the SUV can handle even ice which is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to drive in. Me and several friends of mine have nearly been in accidents in bad conditions because of their arrogance...:crazy:

[MessiahRp]

61. Not everything they are doing is bad (including in the SUV field)... See for yourself!

They are working on the Ford Escape E85 which is a hybrid that also runs on Flex Fuels. Not too many automakers are doing that with their SUVs.

So while one may be an overpriced gas guzzler, not all of their focus is going into that type of vehicle which honestly has a limited market anyway.

See for yourself: http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=22474

[lectrobyte]

80. The whole E85 business that GM and Ford are pushing is basically a

scam. Vehicles get much less MPG on ethanol, but if a vehicle is E85 compatible, then it gets a much better CAFE rating due to the loopholes in place. Thus, an E85 Tahoe gets counted as a 27 MPG vehicle towards CAFE requirements, although it would be at best 20 MPG in the real world on gasoline, and maybe 15 MPG on E85.

[ContraBass Black]

73. Not necessarily.

There are three reasons that Toyota is gaining market share and may soon become the most popular auto maker:

1: Strong and well-deserved reputation for reliability
2: Constant power train and platform development
3: Toyota makes many of the most popular trucks and SUV's.

[CabalPowered]

74. My dad recently test drove the new Explorer

He's owned several since they've come out. He was so appalled at the quality that he told the salesman, "Sir, you couldn't pay me to drive that car".

[moez]

77. The big ass SUV's

and the unions dragged them under....

[tex-wyo-dem]

78. Why do they stil continue to make monster SUVs?

Because they have huge profit margins for Ford, GM and the like. Much larger than small cars.

They basically just take a pickup chassis and stick an SUV body on them...with the exception of the body panels and cosmetics, very low development costs. Also since SUVs still qualify as "trucks," they have lower insurance regulation standards than passenger cars.

And people continue to by the stupid things.

[dysfunctional press]

86. you answered your question...

they build them because people buy them.

[sweetpotato]

99. People buy them because that's what they are selling, selling, selling

Who wanted an SUV before they started advertising the bejeesus out of them?

The advertising SOLD the SUVs to us.

The advertising blitz on these things was like brainwashing.

If we suddenly saw a shift to aggressive marketing of hybrids, everyone would demand one.

[dysfunctional press]

100. i saw the same ads, but i never bought one.

there is A LOT of market research that goes into producing something as expensive as a new line/type of vehicle.

people were customizing trucks and vans into suvs long before they were being produced on an assembly line.

[Auggie]

79. Oh the irony, considering that the simple Model T started it all.

Why can't American auto manufacturers make a reliable, affordable, and fun-to-drive people's car that gets good mileage? Oh yeah, not enough profit margin...

[2Design]

81. RW soliders buy them - they are everywhere near bases n/t

[SoCalDem]

87. Ford should make AFFORDABLE/ordinary pickups and Mustangs

Somehow I cannot get my head around the idea of a $35K truck.

Old Henry Ford knew that affordability to the masses and simplicity were the recipe for success.
maybe ford needs to try something like that for a few years :)

[lies and propaganda]

88. well, speaking for my family...

My 20 and 14 yr old sisters both live with my parents. My 20 yr old sister has a 2 yr old and is due in freaking march again. My 14 yr old siter rules and participates in every sport known to man and it takles a large vehicle to cart around 4 older people, two babies and a sporting goods store worth of equipment.

I dont like it either and when im home I feel freaked out driving in it. But not guilty because I very much see their need for it.

[TornadoTN]

93. Don't feel bad for it -just keep an eye out in the future

I know what you mean about the size of the vehicles and the necessity for it in some circumstances. Here in the south, EVERYONE it seems has one of these. I can understand with a large family, but just for two people - thats just irresponsible.

My company buys company vehicles for all of us in executive management and the sales team. When I started fresh out of college four years ago, I was amazed to see a company actually purchasing these behemoths just for a one man sales team. I deferred my SUV in favor of a Nissan Maxima for the same price. Lo and behold, my fuel prices were 3-6 times less expensive than these other guys with the SUV's and the company rewarded me for it. I didn't feel it was anything to be rewarded for, it was just common sense. They put me in charge of the vehicle purchases for this year and I've been replacing them with Hybrid Camry's (but there's a waiting period because they are in high demand). I love mine and it works great, but I see your point about the space requirements. My Toyota dealer is claiming that Toyota is planning on making their full line hybrid over the next few years. That may be something to keep an eye on since they make great cars in the U.S. and in all sizes up to the massively laid out Sequoia. My wife and I are hoping to get a Hybrid 4-Runner to replace her current model if and when they ever come out.

[hogwyld]

94. A minivan does the same thing

and is a lot better on fuel usage. Sometimes choices are made more for vanity, than for true practicality.

[Porcupine]

95. It's a Ford....... GREENHOUSE!

How many seedling flats do you think you could get in that sucker. Hell, you could grow tomatoes all year even in main with that high quality glass.

Anybody who doesn't think we're going to have a fuel problem damn soon is dreaming. The overly warm winter this year saved our ass but we won't always get lucky.