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He said the insurgents were members of a previously unknown group called the Army of Heaven

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:32 AM
Original message
He said the insurgents were members of a previously unknown group called the Army of Heaven
I swear only Francis Ford Coppola could be writing this shit.

http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/01/29/ap/headlines/d8muu5r80.txt

Iraq: 300 Militants Killed in Battle

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi officials said Monday that 300 militants were killed in a fierce battle between U.S.-backed Iraqi troops and insurgents allegedly plotting to kill pilgrims at a major Shiite Muslim religious festival. Elsewhere, bombings and mortar attacks targeting Shiites killed at least 15 people.

The fighting that began Sunday near the Shiite holy city of Najaf had largely subsided by Monday as Iraqi security forces frisked suspects while others patrolled elsewhere on the battlefield. snip

Officials were unclear about the religious affiliation of the militants. Although Sunni Arabs have been the main force behind insurgent groups, there are a number of Shiite militant and splinter groups that have clashed from time to time with the government.

Iraqi soldiers attacked at dawn and militants hiding in orchards fought back with automatic weapons, sniper rifles and rockets, the governor said. He said the insurgents were members of a previously unknown group called the Army of Heaven.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. this is bush's crusade, to put our troops in the middle of all this
he should air dropped there.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not after first having created that mess. nt
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Has any of those death squads ever been arrested?
No? Then how do we know they are Sunni?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Because we're signing their paychecks. nt
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. It was my understanding the the death squads wer primarily
Shia, while the car and suicide bombers were Sunni.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Sure, but were does that understanding originate?
Death Squads go unseen, car bombs are anonymous and suicide bombers leave no evidence.
So how do we know who's doing what?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You are right. It is a big mysterious world out there.
How do we know anything that we know? Some things we know first hand, but there are many more things we think we know after piecing together bits of news from different sources. Some news comes from the MSM, some from DU, some from Democracy Now, NPR, PRI, BBC.

The victims of death squads are not unseen and their identities are often known. Car bombs and suicide bombers do leave evidence after their bombs explode. Could Sunnis be executing their own just to implicate the Shia? Sure. Are the Shia blowing up their own with car bombs and suicide bombers to make the sunnis look bad? Could be.

Of course, it could be a malevolent, all-powerful force (starts with a "B") that is able orchestrate violence on a daily basis and widespread scale and able to frame the Sunni and Shia in Iraq, the Islamists in Pakistan, Great Britain, the Netherlands and Spain, Hamas and Fatah in Gaza. Sure it could be.

How do I know what I know? I don't know. But there are things that I think I know.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I don't see how
Sunnis and Shiite benefit from killing one another, and i'm always wondering if they cooperate when they are targeting US soldiers - the sure used to cooperate.
Otoh I do see how the Bush regime could benefit from the chaos in Iraq: reason to stay. Because of the oil, and because there;s more oil in the region. So given the lack of conclusive evidence for the official line, i'm thinking along the lines of 'third party involved in the Iraq civil war'. CIA did that sort of thing in the 50's in Iran, why not now in Iraq? Back then it was about oil to.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I don't know how Sunnis or Shiites benefit either, but you could
say the same about the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland, the Northerners and Southerners in our Civil War, the Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, et al in Yugoslavia.

If Bush thinks that the continuing chaos in Iraq is convincing people that our military should stay there, he should take a deep breath and see which party controls congress and where he stands in the opinion polls. If he is pulling all the strings there, he would be smart to tell the death squads and bombers to cool it for a while, so that he can gain some popular support for the war.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. We'll... we've succeeded in making Iraq a travel destination! ...for wackjob end-timers
Lovely.

Get out now.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. I still want to know..
How the bleep do you NOT know about a very large and well armed (and from what I hear) well trained group? The only reason this didn't succeed I hear is that some Iraqi's tipped off the Iraqi Army. It seems once again our "intelligence" has failed us...:mad:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm taking bets that
we'll hear this was just another slaughter. The end time language makes no sense particuarly the heaven part.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. I just saw Army of Darkness on TNT
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
9. More info from an Iraqi blogger.
http://www.healingiraq.blogspot.com/

U.S. Likely Duped in Najaf Clashes
The official U.S. and Iraqi story about what happened in Najaf today, which was swallowed and propagated by news wires (and apparently also the New York Times), is complete nonsense. First of all, they can’t even decide whether they were fighting Sunni insurgents or a “violent Shi’ite cult,” as Reuters’ unnamed self-appointed expert put it in their story. Secondly, the U.S. and Iraqi descriptions don’t match and both contain gross inconsistencies; Najaf’s governor, As’ad Abu Gilel, who is a member of the pro-Iranian SCIRI, said they were Sunni insurgents, including Pakistani and Afghan fighters, plotting to stage an attack against Shia pilgrims commemorating the holy month of Muharram in Najaf, and to possibly attack the Shi’ite clerical leadership that is based in the old city, around the shrine of Imam Ali. Then he turned around and said they were local loyalists to ousted dictator Saddam Hussein, probably referring to the Shi’ite tribe of Bani Hassan around Kufa, which facilitated the assault by Saddam’s Republican Guard against rebels in the 1991 Intifada. (The Bani Hassan tribe is despised by major Shi’ite political parties, and residents of Najaf scornfully refer to their town of Al-Abbasiya, across the Euphrates from Kufa, as Al-Ouja, which is the hometown of Saddam Hussein near Tikrit. Many members of Bani Hassan also supported Sadrists in their 2004 uprising.) A U.S. military source confirmed that 250 “insurgents” were killed and several other militants were captured, including a Sudanese. An Iraqi security source, however, as well as the local Iraqi media, identified the militants as members of a Shi’ite splinter group called Al-Mahdiyoun or Ansar Al-Imam Al-Mahdi, which if true means the U.S. military was once again duped into doing the dirty work of SCIRI and other Shi’ite factions – and, I daresay, Iran – for them.

The Mahdiyoun, or Mahdawiya, as they are called in Iraq, are a very small fringe Shia movement with scattered followers in major urban centres in the south, such as Basrah, Amara, Nasiriya, Samawa and Kut. Their leader is Sayyid Ahmed Al-Hassan, a former disciple of Muqtada’s father Ayatollah Mohammed Sadiq Al-Sadr from Tannumah in Basrah, and who declared himself the promised Al-Yemani, who according to Shi’ite lore is the vanguard of the twelfth Imam Al-Mahdi (Shi’ite messiah-like figure) and who will prepare for his return. I won’t go into the theological details, but it suffices to say that Ahmed Al-Hassan claimed to have met the Imam Al-Mahdi, that he is infallible, that he is more knowledgeable about the secrets and meanings of the Torah, the bible and the Quran than anyone else, that the Star of David is also the star of Imam Al-Mahdi and the descendents of Prophet Muhammed and that it should not be defiled by Muslims. He opposes the occupation, elections and the constitution because he considers himself the rightful ruler. And he contests the authority of supreme Shi’ite clerics, such as Sistani.

Al-Mahdiyoun banner and sealsAl-Hassan also wrote letters to major word leaders, some included below:

To Sayyid Ali Khameni,

You are required to immediately hand over the rule in Iran to the vanguard of the Imam Al-Mahdi (peace be upon him), otherwise you would be considered in disobedience of the orders of Imam Al-Mahdi (peace be upon him). The honourable Iranian people in the land of Al-Rai – which irrigates the earth at the end of time – should enable me to rule the land of Iran.

Ahmed Al-Hassan
Vanguard and messenger of the Imam Al-Mahdi (peace be upon him) to all people
Supported by Gabriel, guided by Michael, victorious by Israfil

***
To the people of Iraq,

The land of discord; Yes, there has been no prophet or messenger sent to Iraq who was not killed or expelled by the people of Iraq. You are required to enable the vanguard of the Imam Al-Mahdi (peace be upon him) to rule Iraq, otherwise you would be considered in disobedience of the orders of Imam Al-Mahdi Mohammed bin Al-Hassan (peace be upon him). My father, Imam Al-Mahdi Mohammed bin Al-Hassan, has ordered me to give those who disobey him either the sword or death under the rule of the sword.

Ahmed Al-Hassan

***
To the president of America, Bush, or whoever holds his position,

It is I who you have seen in your sleep, and you will see me even more. You are required to unconditionally withdraw your military power from Muslim land or, I swear by the One and Only, I will throw America – the iron monster that has stomped on the kingdoms of earth – into the pits of hell, as Daniel (peace be upon him) was told in the Torah. You will hear from me again, and you should know that America will be pushed to my right in the Kingdom of Heaven, and I will crush it, God willing.

Ahmed Al-Hassan
***
He has also issued statements calling on all Iraqi political parties, leaders and Iraqi tribes to pledge allegiance to him or they will suffer in hell. But, as I said, he barely has a few hundred followers scattered all over the country, and I doubt that he would come up with something as foolish as attacking Najaf, because actually it was his movement that has been under attack lately by Iraqi security forces, heavily infiltrated by SCIRI in the south. Last week, his main office and husseiniya in Najaf was raided and destroyed with several of his followers detained by the Aqrab (Scorpion) Brigade of Interior Ministry Commandos. The same happened to his offices in Basrah, Amara and Karbala, days ago. Al-Hassan himself was placed under house arrest in Tannumah, Basrah, by the Iraqi government some months ago.

I suspect this whole campaign is a result of Al-Hassan’s strange, unorthodox teachings and his defiance of the mainstream Shi’ite religious and political institution, including, most importantly, Iran. The movement’s detractors claim the group has engaged in obscene behaviour such as walking naked in public or hosting group sex orgies in husseiniyas and mosques, in order to “provoke” the Imam Al-Mahdi to return, or that they are Saddam loyalists who were planted just before the war by the regime to undermine the Najaf clerical authority, with some even claiming the group is Israeli or supported by US. radical Christian movements.

The “preemptive” crackdown against Al-Hassan – like that against Mahmoud Al-Sarkhi months ago, which I wrote about here – bears all the signs of U.S. Shi’ite allies (SCIRI and Da’wa) fooling the U.S. into supporting them in their intra-Shi’ite struggle to control the south. This is even more shocking because these “cults,” as crazy as they may sound, have never carried arms or posed a threat to anyone; their activities are restricted to theological debate and polemics with other Shi’ite clerics and movements. The fact that they may have a few armed followers means nothing. Virtually everyone in Iraq is armed to the teeth. This might actually turn out to be a massacre against some harmless cultists. If true, then congratulations to the U.S. for carrying out Iran’s dirty deeds in Iraq yet again.

UPDATE: I can't take the idiocy of the media any more. ABC News just described Al-Mahdiyoun as a "doomsday cult" with both Sunni and Shia members preparing to attack the shrine of Imam Ali and Shia clerics in Najaf. Ummm. Four years in Iraq and you still can't get the obvious facts straight? No wonder Iraq got into such a mess.

Hint for the U.S.: There are no "bad guys" and "good guys" in Iraq. Everyone has dirty hands. It makes no sense for you, nor is it going to improve anything in Iraq, to side with one bad guy against another, just because you're so confused that you can't differentiate between friend and foe. Just please remember that. The trick is to reach a settlement where all the "bad guys" are satisified and agree to behave as "good guys" again. Otherwise, just forget about it.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. wow. too confusing
I am getting a headache just trying to sort out all that information in your reply there. I thought I knew a little something about Iraq. I obviously don't and I don't think anyone outside there is really is anyway. More proof that we have no idea how to handle this and need to hand things over to the Iraqis and leave ASAP.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Our "leaders" are too busy listening to themselves to pay attention to Iraqis.
I follow a number of Iraqi blogs just to try and get some knowledge of what's actually going on there. The idiocy and sheer ignorance of Iraq by the politicians and military of what's going on there has led to the carnage.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. don't even talk the language..
I heard that our embassay still has very few people who even speak the language there. How can you really understand anything if you have to depend on translators who have god knows what kind of political agenda...:banghead:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. "Everyone has dirty hands. It makes no sense for you, nor is it going to improve anything in Iraq"
But...but...but....there's gotta be a boogeyman. How else will the Cowboy good-guy defeat the evil-doers?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. great post
bookmarked
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. Amazing! The iraqi Army went from "Can't Do Shit" on their own.
To single handidly killing 300 militants. Now THAT'S a comeback!


Either that or the Bush admin. is trying to goose up their batting average so HE can get credit for bringing our troops home.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I thought the same thing when I heard about this on NPR this morning
Bush has been blundering for FOUR years with a dysfunctional Iraqi "army." Then the Dems take Congress two months ago, elected by Americans who have had enough of this Bush Family FUBAR, and suddenly the Iraqi army starts "winning?"

Yeah...sure :eyes:
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Probably some day those 300 millitants will turn out to be
the inhabitants of a small village that hasn't got anything to do with anything.
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