I didn't vote for this

[txaslftist]

I voted for Barack Obama. I caucused for Barack Obama.

I voted thinking that a constitutional law professor would stop torture, end military tribunals and ease us out of two foreign wars kicked off by our crazed former leader.

I did not vote for an escalation of the war in Afghanistan, I did not vote for a defense of military tribunals, I did not vote for a continuation of our imperial ambition in Iraq.

What a disappointment.

[berni_mccoy]

1. Then you were an uninformed voter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7123044

Obama stated several times during his campaign that he would escalate troops in Afghanistan.

[NightWatcher]

2. still better than McSame/Palin.... that's the bottom line

[berni_mccoy]

5. No comparison. But no one can claim that they didn't vote for this without being revealed

as uninformed on Obama's position or a liar.

[NightWatcher]

7. oh gosh no, nor should we be surprised by Holder, or Emmanuel, or anything else

[txaslftist]

6. and that ain't much, is it?

[bdamomma]

15. ok, I remember him saying that a number of times.

but what is main reason why we are there? could be the pipeline and the Russians got thrown out too. it's been 8 years too, disappointing decision.

[femrap]

24. TPTB like making money

on those pretty flowers that grow in Afghanistan. And the pipeline would be nice as well...a gift to the Oil Boys.

[txaslftist]

18. I guess I was.

That will teach me to work for the same old party.

Some "change".

[AndrewP]

38. Same here

I fucked up and was fooled.

Dumb me

[berni_mccoy]

43. You were fooled by yourself then, not by Obama.

[AndrewP]

46. Probably, I made him out to be better than he really is.

[blindpig]

37. Just goes to show

that the whole fucking system ain't worth a tinker's damn. Choose war from column A or war from column B. Choose capitalist 'health care' from column A or choose capitalist 'health care' from column B. And so on....

[quiller4]

56. During the campaign Obama made clear that he would re-focus

on Afghanistan and, when questioned, said he was likely to increase the troop commitment. Weren't you listening. That is one of the reasons I went to the caucus to support him after talking to our nephew who had just returned from his second tour.

[lame54]

83. I voted for him in spite of that...

but I'm still deeply disappointed

[hfojvt]

3. might as well include "I did not pay attention during the campaign"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/20/obama.afghanistan/

updated 10:46 p.m. EDT, Mon July 21, 2008

Obama calls situation in Afghanistan 'urgent'

...

"The Afghan government needs to do more. But we have to understand that the situation is precarious and urgent here in Afghanistan. And I believe this has to be our central focus, the central front, on our battle against terrorism," Obama said Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation."

"I think one of the biggest mistakes we've made strategically after 9/11 was to fail to finish the job here, focus our attention here. We got distracted by Iraq," he said.

Obama said troop levels must increase in Afghanistan.

"For at least a year now, I have called for two additional brigades, perhaps three," he told CBS. "I think it's very important that we unify command more effectively to coordinate our military activities. But military alone is not going to be enough."

Obama met Sunday with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a leader the Democratic senator has criticized for not doing enough to rebuild the war-torn nation."

[oviedodem]

11. Thank You

[txaslftist]

19. military alone isn't going to be enough...

but it is all we are gonna do.

[bigtree]

30. so, to draw out your point

Should we have voted against him on this issue alone? Certainly McCain was worse on Afghanistan.

Yours seems to be an argument to just sit down and shut up because we voted for him. What if we knew he intended to escalate and voted for him anyway in the hope we could influence his policy away from the occupation? Was it a mistake to vote for him if we heard this from him in the campaign and disagreed?

What about the next election? Supporters of the president need to offer more than 'He told you so' to voters dismayed by this escalation.

[FarLeftFist]

4. Welcome to American politics...

Where we vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

[Echo In Light]

8. _

[corkhead]

20. or this...

[Echo In Light]

22. With a vigorous dose of ....

[txaslftist]

9. And what a waste of time it is.

[bdamomma]

12. lives too.

[Mari333]

13. the chickenhawks are out in full force today

just ignore them and tell them to enlist.
:)

[oviedodem]

10. Clearly then you did not listen to the HUNREDS of times when the man

said:

"We should be fighting in afghanistan"

I knew a long long time ago that more troops would be going there. I will take 30% disappointment if I can get 70% of what I want. I would rather take that than the 85% destruction that would have taken place if it was Palin/McStupid

[txaslftist]

17. I don't see much difference.

People keep saying McCain/Palin would have been SOOOO much worse.

If we have a continuation of the same policies, I don't see much difference at all.

[RufusTFirefly]

26. Actually, McCain/Palin might've knocked America upside the head...

... and finally brought us to our senses. (Assuming they didn't destroy us first.)

With Pres. Obama, some of us are so utterly hypnotized by the mantra of Hope and Change® that we are unable to open our eyes. With McCain/Palin, America might've died fighting. With Obama, we're going to die in our sleep.

[ginnyinWI]

28. I do see a difference.

This is not a black or white issue--there are so many shades of gray.

It won't be a continuation of the same policies. McCain is the "bomb bomb bomb-Iran" guy. War as the first and only choice. Obama does want us out--but has to do it the smart way which might not mean total and immediate withdrawal. I don't know--I still trust the guy to make the best choice. McCain has shown us in so many ways that he would be making terrible choices right about now. As bad as Bush.

[SoxFan]

14. Boo freaking hoo

Obama said time and time again that we needed to draw down our presence in Iraq and focus our military efforts on rooting out the Taliban and al-Quaeda elements in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

He was right then, he's right now.

[txaslftist]

16. He was right then, he's right now.

LOL.

So thought the Russians.

And the British.

And every other nation stupid enough to embroil themselves in that crazed pathchwork of tribal warriors.

All we are accomplishing there is the creation of widows, orphans and future terrorists.

[berni_mccoy]

23. The Russians and the UK were alone when they went to Afghanistan.

We are not. US Troops are roughly half to 2/3 of the troops in Afghanistan. Look up ISAF to actually inform yourself.

And you can bet there will be an increase in international troops as well.

[Forkboy]

32. Don't forget Poland!

[berni_mccoy]

42. That was Bush's argument for Iraq, not Afghanistan. Bush turned his back on the world in Afghanistan

[Forkboy]

45. That was Bush trying to trump up how wide the international support was, just like you were doing.

[txaslftist]

34. Nonsense.

The Russians had Ukrainians, Poles, East Germans, Cubans ... a whole panoply of nations. The British had Australians, South Africans, Indians... another nice "coalition".

[tekisui]

53. We are getting ready to pass that coalition way up.

After the escalation, there will be 35,000 more US and 5-10k non-US. Out of a total of about 140,000 100,000+ will be US.

[Jokerman]

21. So when do you get shipped out?

Let the fools who support this war be the ones who fight it.

[berni_mccoy]

25. You need to be careful when you make statements like that

You never know who on this board has provided military service in the past or is still serving.

[SoxFan]

27. Bingo

I wore a uniform for ten years, and have been subject to recall as an IRR reservist throughout the post-9/11 era.

Snark fail.

[SoxFan]

29. I wore the uniform for ten years, kiddo

11B, 13F, and and a field artillery officer.

Don't play the chickenhawk card, because it doesn't apply.

[Romulox]

33. Yeah, but our country needs you NOW.

And, not to denigrate anyone's service, but serving in the late '90s in Germany isn't the same thing as dying in a hot war in some god forsaken desert.

Feel free to take personal offense at these statements, but that's not the intent.

[SoxFan]

41. When and where did you serve?

[Romulox]

48. Why not just take a short cut and throw out "Love it or leave it?"

Our military is under civilian control, bub. One need not have served to have an opinion on whether it is wise to throw away more lives and treasures for the benefit of a few oilmen and defense contractors.

What makes this position non-hypocritical is that I oppose this war and this surge. See how that works? On the other hand, if I were to advocate for war from the safety of these USA, I might feel like a bit of a hypocrite. Especially if my so-called "service" was in a non-war zone or during peacetime! :hi:

[Jokerman]

59. A hawk by any other name...

ANYONE who thinks that murdering people while invading and occupying their country is going to benefit anyone but the military-industrial complex is misguided and wrong.

That includes President Obama.

[kctim]

36. Really?

So you don't mind when people say "let the fools who support govt healthcare be the ones who pay for it?"

I've served, I've fought and I've bled. Thankfully armchair generals are ignored.

[Romulox]

39. That's not even a little bit analogous. Public healthcare is a benefit to all.

Warfare is a benefit to Raytheon, Xe, Colt, ExxonMobile, the Taliban, etc. etc. Not similar in the least.

[SoxFan]

44. Disabling al-Quaeda is a benefit to all

Remember that little incident back in '01? My high school classmate who was on the 96th floor would remember if he were still around.

[Romulox]

47. A goal which the US military has demonstrably failed at...

Even if one were to accept that one can defeat a tactic married to an ideology by bombing a third party (the 9/11 bombers were all Saudis, a country which is our "great ally", but you knew that!)

[Techn0Girl]

55. Except Al-Quaeda is NOT in Afghanistan - The Taliban is

al-Queada has maybe a hundred people in Afghanistan.
It's the Taliban who are in power there. And they were not involved in 9-11.

Your friend who died probably would have wanted us to go after the right people back in 2001 instead of invading Iraq .

Does any of this seem familiar?

[txaslftist]

60. The 400k to 1 million we killed in Iraq weren't payback enough?

Because if the idea is to actually get AQ back, we are failing miserably. Our Iraq and Afghan adventures are creating more terrorists, not fewer.

[kctim]

51. They are the exact same thing

YOU believe public healthcare done the way YOU think it should be, would be a benefit to all. President Obama believes the war, done the way HE thinks is best, would be a benefit to all.

I voted for President Obama to make the decisions on such matters and I trust him completely. I did not vote for you to make the decisions on my healthcare or for YOU or your opinion to determine what would benefit all.

So, please, tell me why I should not trust the judgement of the man who know's what the hell is going on over there, but I should trust the OPINIONS of the average joe when it comes to my healthcare?

[Romulox]

54. Warfare and healthcare are "the exact same thing"?

Congratulations on constructing an irrefutable (which is to say completely nonsensical!) argument!

"I voted for President Obama to make the decisions on such matters and I trust him completely. I did not vote for you to make the decisions on my healthcare or for YOU or your opinion to determine what would benefit all."

Er, should we put aside the fact that the current healthcare "reforms" are almost entirely the result of the President's own initiative? Or would facts merely cloud your otherwise "complete" trust? :wow:

[kctim]

57. The reasoning is

but you already know that, which is why you wish to skirt it.

The current reforms are not the GOVT healthcare plan mentioned, are they? No. The GOVT plan mentioned is one where people who do not support it are forced to support it. Get that? They do not want to support it, they want others to support it.
So, when one person says those who support the war should pay for the war and another person says those who support GOVT healthcare should pay for it, it is the same thing.

Attempting to shout the standard "complete" trust line in order to dismiss questioning is weak. Why so afraid to really look at the facts and answer the question? I can make it easier if you wish: Why should I ignore the advice of PRESIDENT Obama, who knows what the hell is going on, but listen to the OPINION of somebody who doesn't have a clue and who is speaking from emotion?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

31. Truth be told

it doesn't matter what we vote for. Our opinions and thoughts really do not matter. Others with different agendas are in charge. We are merely along for the ride..............it's very disheartening to realize the age old saying 'you can't fight City Hall" is more often true than not.

[txaslftist]

35. O, I know.

But if I didn't at least complain, I wouldn't be alive.

[Romulox]

40. Bingo. We didn't get a choice of a candidate who was against War, against bankster bailouts,

against "free trade" with authoritarian regimes, etc. etc.

All leading candidates supported all of these things in 2008.

[berni_mccoy]

49. I'm pretty sure you didn't vote for Obama anyway. At least you are consistent.

[Romulox]

52. Are you from bizarro America where my ballot for President isn't secret?

Or do you just need some attention? :shrug:

[cali]

50. bzzzt. I'm staunchly against the escalation in Afghanistan

but I voted for it when I voted for Obama. He said he'd do it repeatedly.

It looks like you were uninformed then and you're uninformed now. Your op is filled with either ignorance or deliberate dishonesty.

[havocmom]

58. Seems some voted for the illusions in their dreams rather than the candidate who campaigned

He said he would focus on Afghanistan. I see no big surprise here.

Over the months we have been treated to much pouting. While actual complaints do exist, like lobbyists working for the admin, much of the wailing has been over Obama's failure to live up to the delusions in many individuals' heads. There has been too much projection of personal preferences on the man.

Seems projection and delusions are not just failings of the right.

[SoxFan]

61. Well stated

The Democratic electorate did not nominate Dennis Kucinich. All of the major candidates-including the current POTUS, VPOTUS, and SOS-supported concentrating on the effort to eradicate the threat in Afghanistan.

[HughMoran]

62. Yeah, actually you did

You should have voted for McCain if you wanted a leftist.

[txaslftist]

63. I should have stayed home.

I will next time.

[HughMoran]

64. Good, then we won't have to listen to your whining

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[txaslftist]

69. LOL.

[Ikonoklast]

66. If you voted for Obama, you voted for escalation in Afghanistan.

Period.

You cannot say this is a surprise. The man is doing what he said he would do.

Too bad you can't read or understand human speech.

I see the fault here is on you.

[txaslftist]

70. Yep. I shouldn't have voted for him.

My fault that I did.

[Ikonoklast]

74. At least you are honest about it.

There are many her pretending that they supported the president, but have incessantly attacked him from even before the inauguration.

And there are others here that believe in magical thinking instead of cold reality.

[spanone]

67. he banned torture and he said afghanistan was the good war...time to wake up.

[txaslftist]

71. Erm... he did NOT ban torture.

You need to read the fine print on what he actually did there. He left exceptions in "intelligence" big enough to drive a truck through.

[txaslftist]

72. Erm... he did NOT ban torture.

You need to read the fine print on what he actually did there. He left exceptions in "intelligence" big enough to drive a truck through.

[goldcanyonaz]

68. Yes, you did. He clearly stated that he would send more troops to Afghanistan.

"Obama has made Afghanistan a centerpiece of his proposed strategy for dealing with terrorism threats. The Illinois senator has said the war in Afghanistan, where Taliban and al-Qaida-linked militants are resurgent, deserves more troops and more attention as opposed to the conflict in Iraq."

[Stinky The Clown]

73. You Are Stupid and Ignorant

Many will say that to you because, by gosh, by golly, he said all along he was going to escalate in Afghanistan.

Many will tell you this is YOUR fault for not paying attention.

I will not be one of those people. But you can see they have already weighed into your thread.

[Ikonoklast]

75. Then you deny reality.

There is what was actually said, and what you wished you heard, and they are two different things.

[Stinky The Clown]

78. ....... and he remains a master of confuddling the three.

[Ikonoklast]

81. Then you are either easily fooled,

or a fool...easy.

I say both.

[Stinky The Clown]

86. I see tonight is the night that all those who ......

....... are blinded by personality are out and prowling.

Your nick is so ironic!

[goldcanyonaz]

76. Did you have no idea what you were voting for?

He clearly stated that he was going to send more troops to Afghanistan.


Were you not listening?

Or did you think Obama was going to pass out gummy bears and lollipops?

Wave a magic wand and cure all the ills of society?

[Stinky The Clown]

79. That is a very stupid post

I expected no more.

Ordinarily, I would invite one who says things that way to go fuck him/her/itself. But I won't, because the rules don't permit it.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. By the way .....

..... the alert button is right there for ya if yer bothered by that.

[goldcanyonaz]

82. So, I'll mark you down as someone who only heard what they wanted to hear during his campaign.

Your feigned outrage is noted.

[Stinky The Clown]

84. Your non feigned ......

...... personality worship is also noted.

[goldcanyonaz]

85. How ironic coming from one of Obama's biggest cheerleaders, perhaps you should review your posts?

I never cared for him but I voted for him.

I do support him 100 percent.

[Stinky The Clown]

87. What a sec ....... are you calling **me** one of .....

...... Obama's biggest cheerleaders?

Me??!!??!!??

:rofl:

You're not from around here, are you?

:rofl:

[txaslftist]

77. Hey, I admit it.

I thought the guy would grow beyond his campaign rhetoric and take some risks, be a liberal, progressive leader-type. I thought that once in office he would see that an escalation in Afghanistan would be the wrong way to go.

Nope, he has been consistently pro-stupid-war from jump. Of course, there's still a slim chance he won't attack Iran, which makes him preferable to Hillary or McCain, but if McCain had been elected, there would have been staunch opposition from the left.

Now there just seems to be kind of hesitant uncertainty.

I should not have caucused for him or voted for him. I like to think it was a failure of optimism on my part rather than being stupid, but it could have been just plain old stupidity. I am certainly not immune to that.