Arlen Specter's facebook message on the President's Speech

[AllentownJake]

I oppose sending 30,000 additional American troops to Afghanistan because I am not persuaded that it is indispensable in our fight against Al Qaeda. If it was, I would support an increase because we have to do whatever it takes to defeat Al Qaeda since they’re out to annihilate us. But if Al Qaeda can operate out of Yemen or Somalia, why fight in Afghanistan where no one has succeeded?"

I disagree with the President’s two key assumptions: that we can transfer responsibility to Afghanistan after 18 months and that our NATO allies will make a significant contribution. It is unrealistic to expect the United States to be out in 18 months so there is really no exit strategy. This venture is not worth so many American lives or the billions it will add to our deficit.

[Mojambo]

1. Wow. I actually agree with Arlen Spector

And disagree with Barack Obama.

Didn't see that one coming.

[JVS]

2. Holy Shit!

It really bugs me when someone I detest as much as him speaks the truth.

[avalonofmists]

3. +1

[Nite Owl]

4. He said that pretty well. n/t

[FLAprogressive]

5. holy shit we might be able to stop this!

[HughMoran]

6. Since when did he turn into a Democrat

:rofl:

[cbdo2007]

7. So.....he thinks we should just stay the course??

If he's got a better idea I'm sure everybody would like to hear it.

[AllentownJake]

8. Sounds like he wants a withdrawal nt.

[rhett o rick]

9. Makes sense to me. Escalation doesnt. End the stoopid war. nt

[Pirate Smile]

10. I think Specter thinks this is his chance to get the left on his side against Sestak because since

Sestak was an Admiral, his comments on military matters tend to be more nuanced about things like this. Arlen doesn't have to be.

[AllentownJake]

12. I do not like Joe Sestak

He is better than Toomey, but who isn't.

[JVS]

19. What's your problem with him? I remember you said it before, but I forget why

[AllentownJake]

21. I watched him get his ass kicked in a debate with Pat Toomey

and I got to ask him a question and I pitched a slow fast ball right over the middle of the plate and he bungled it.

That and he treats his staff like slaves.

He isn't ready for prime time.

[Pirate Smile]

22. I saw Sestak on MSNBC later and he seemed to like Obama's plan EXCEPT he wished Obama had not

used ANY end date which is what the military keeps saying - so he is reacting how I thought he would. His response is to the right of Specter. Specter thinks this is his chance.

[AllentownJake]

26. Will see how long that lasts

Sestak isn't going to win many friends with that position.

[Pirate Smile]

28. I know but it's the Admiral part is kicking in. I don't think he can help it.

:)

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. Specter is a shrewd old man

It's no accident that he has been in the Senate for almost 30 years.

[AllentownJake]

11. Kick

[madokie]

13. For the most part I'm not going to like anything spot changer arlen has to say

damn sure won't be having any respect for him in any way. One bullet spot changer says all I need to know about the specter. He soon will be gone from our senate.

He was a :puke: then and he's a :puke: now.

-1 I did ;-)

[AllentownJake]

14. His entire re-election strategy was to kiss Barack Obama's ass

I find it very interesting, the strategy has suddenly switched.

[JVS]

15. This isn't rocket surgery

The wars have grown less popular each year. Obama's speech and strategy for dealing with the public on this issue is to attempt to get the public to their late sept 2001 POV and get a do-over on the war. Specter has seen a lot happen over the decades and likely sees it as impossible to reverse the trend on this war's popularity. So he criticizes the war, which helps him with most democrats in the state (many of whom have not liked him, but most of whom oppose escalation) and he puts the criticism in the language of War on Al Quada, which helps to rally his traditional base in PA, moderates. Watch for him to mention fiscal responsibility as a reason against it at some point for that last bit of appeal to moderates.

[AllentownJake]

17. I know that

:evilgrin:

Joe Sestak will have to denounce the action today or risk seeing be out maneuvered to the left by Arlen. In the primary they are about to have a pissing contest about who hates war more.

A former Admiral and Arlen Specter putting on their hippie gear. We live in interesting times.

[JVS]

23. Just wait until 2011 when some Blue Dog starts making a bid for the nomination

This escalation is going to be an albatross because wars don't get more popular, and the costs don't quit adding up. Obama will be accused of plundering the treasury, and will have fractured his support among the base who won him the primaries. Meanwhile the conservative democratic coalition that opposed him in the 2008 primaries will be able to be reassembled by someone like Bayh.

[AllentownJake]

25. Obama was part of the conservative/moderate wing of the party

Hillary and him had an argument over who should be king/queen. The entire primary battle was about people Bill had done favors for vs. people he had pissed off over the years.

There were little policy differences between the two, and where they existed, they stopped existing after the primary.

Evan fit into the people favors were done for category. He almost was Vice President.

The Obama campaign realizing they weren't going to get significant support in the traditional democratic party outlets took what Howard Dean tried to do, and did it.

[JVS]

29. Nevertheless, his campaign did depend on mobilizing the left part of the party, and he can't now

This leaves the faction he fought against in the position of being able to toss him to the curb.

[AllentownJake]

30. Why would they do that?

They are running things.

[JVS]

32. For the same reason that the primaries went so long, For power.

You characterize the primary as a battle between those who had been favored by Bill vs. those who had been pissed off. Fair enough. But even if policies are similar, this still represents faction, which doesn't just vanish. In fact, in a post- ideology party, faction is the only important reason to fight. If they were happy just running things, don't you think that HCR would have gone more smoothly with the bluedogs? Besides, in 2011 if the economy sucks and his chances look bad, they need to replace him just to keep running things. They'll claim that his failures are liberal failures marked by excessive spending and replace him.

[AllentownJake]

33. Bayh isn't their guy

I've seen him speak, he has the Charisma of a turnip, be interesting to see who they trot out if your theory is correct.

With the blue dogs I just think it is bad political calculation, when the party has a bad year, these are generally the people that get eaten by the wolves. Liberals can be a liberal in their districts without having to worry about consequences from the electorate.

[JVS]

34. Bayh is an example. They'll find their guy or woman if and when needed.

[Pirate Smile]

24. Sestak is skipping the hippy gear. Arlen is going to keep it all to himself.

[AllentownJake]

27. He's going to lose that argument in a democratic primary

67% of democrats nation wide hate this.

[madokie]

16. snarlin arlen is a snake

best not to forget that.

As a friend used to say about one of our aquaintenaces. There's nothing wrong with having a pet snake as long as you know right where it is all the time. Thats the way I see the little turd

[AllentownJake]

18. Most of them are snakes

best not to forget that.

[madokie]

20. Yup

:hi::donut:

[bdamomma]

35. Arlen got this right.

"why fight in Afghanistan where no one has succeeded?"



yes indeed.

[high density]

36. So Specter doesn't want the war now, and doesn't think it can wind down in 18 months...

So... What does he want? If it can't wind down in 18 months, it can end immediately? Or what exactly? Seems just like a typical Republican(sic) "No, I don't like that" with no other explanation of what they think is the strategy we should pursue.
:wtf:

[AllentownJake]

37. I think the why fight in Afghanistan line

explains what Arlen is advocating.

[high density]

38. One can infer that he wants to withdraw immediately.

The question then becomes, as I wondered before, if he believes we won't be ready to withdraw in 18 months, how are we ready to withdraw now? We just throw up our hands and leave? I don't recall many politicians, especially not Republicans like Specter, advocating this maneuver until Obama became Commander in Chief. When Bush blatantly asserted that he was just going to hand it over to the next guy, I don't recall Specter or any other Republicans having a problem with that. The war just lingered there for years in Afghanistan without any focus at all.

I just find it amazing that Obama is being expected to perfectly fix a mess and come up with some impossible fairytale happy solution to a war. He's choosing from a list of bad choices.

I ultimately think this is all about the Republicans hoping we withdraw, hoping we get attacked again, and then they can recover the national security fear card and blame it on Obama not getting the job done. The Republican war machine can then get roaring up more than ever.

[AllentownJake]

40. He is running in a democratic primary

Translation: He views this decision as something unpopular with democratic primary voters.

None of these people make statements in a vacuum.

My view is simple, if this enemy is really as big of a threat as the President is saying, there needs to be a draft, all production must be focused on the war effort and every able body male must go out and destroy the enemy.

Seeing that the President called for no such measures, and no sacrifices to pay for the war, than I view the threat with skeptism.

There are no limp in bets with war. You either fight till your enemy capitulates or is exterminated or you don't fight.

[high density]

41. I think we are all skeptical about the idea of being able to exterminate Al Qaeda

The problem seems to me that we went on for years without any purpose in Afghanistan. As we all witnessed, it served nothing more than a quickly forgotten knee-jerk reaction to 9/11 and within six months was mutated into a launching point for taking out Saddam Hussein. Eight years later, Obama is finally giving the conflict a real purpose. Whether he can fulfill his goal or not, I don't know. I agree with Specter on the history and I have my own doubts if we can accomplish anything there.

I just find it amazing that the Republicans and their media that gave Bush a blank open book for warfare and spending are now suddenly the anti-war, anti-spending group. When did they stop wanting to fight Al Qaeda?

Obama ultimately said in his speech last night that the only country he wants to nation build in is our own. I believe that. I also believe Bush handed him a horrific set of circumstances and I don't see right now how we can simply exit Afghanistan tomorrow. (And yes I understand it is easy for me to think that given I personally do not have to go over to that hellhole and fight the war.)

[PVnRT]

39. Man's got a point