"Do we really need to teach the Afghanis to shoot?"

[Stinky The Clown]

Thomas Friedman on the desire to "train Afghan security forces" as one of our goals - The Daily Show, 12.01.09

[lapfog_1]

1. No, but we need to teach them to behave like a professional

army that the citizens can trust to protect them (as opposed to some brutal thugs in uniform that think the populace "owes" them).

And how to fight an insurgency with a coordinated modern military.

[eleny]

5. In 18 months

[dred654321]

7. What Im not clear on

is supposedly what Obama is going to accomplish in 18 months, was not done in over 8 years. Doesnt that point to Bush's gross negligence, and isnt that something that should be criminally investigated, and why has Obama not expressed as such? Or are we being had? Somehow I doubt we will be out in 18 months, and that we are being sold up the Military Industrial Complex river.

[eleny]

8. I agree

A MIC river of money and blood.

[dred654321]

10. USA! USA!

you must be one of those evil liberal types. My only conclusion is that Obama is being told what to do and get with the program.

[lapfog_1]

9. Again, you people don't listen.

We will BEGIN to wind down our involvement in 18 (actually 19) months. BEGIN.

And yeah, 18 months is about right to take raw recruits and make trained soldiers out of them. Officers and infrastructure, no, that will take much longer. But it was nice to hear that we will work with regional and local tribal officials rather than just the central government in Kabul (which might as well be a local government now, since it only controls Kabul).

[dred654321]

11. curious

does he mean he will start winding down all of the troops, or just the escalation surge? It wasnt really clear in the speech.

[eleny]

12. Hey, you sound gung-ho. Here's something for you

http://www.army.com/forms/pdf/DD4.PDF

Get busy.

[lapfog_1]

14. I'm really tired of the attitude

"you're either with us or against us"... gee, who does that remind me of???

Just because I *listened* to what the President said tonight, I'm gung-ho and should sign up.

I deal in facts. There are a lot of WHINERS here who intentionally misrepresent either what he said tonight or what he said during his campaign.


I'm not at all certain that the "surge" in Afghanistan will work. If we want to address the problem directly, we need to invade Pakistan and secure their nuclear weapons. But that's not a possibility and I certainly am not in favor of it.

OTOH, I wish everyone here would deal in facts and have a reasoned debate.

The "war is wrong" crowd won't tell me how to secure Pakistan's VERY REAL arsenal of nuclear warheads from Bin Laden followers if we should just pack up an leave.

The "escalate till the cows come home" neocons can't tell me what "the JOB" is in Afghanistan and when we will know that "it's done".

In the meantime, I will continue to correct the record when I see it misstated. The President did NOT say that the war in Afghanistan would be over in 18 months. He said that we would start winding down our involvement in the war in 18 months, and he even added a caveat to that.

As for me serving... Here is what I wrote to another poster who made a similar snarky remark.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7126589&mesg_id=7132061

I can't. When my brother was killed while in the Navy, my plans to attend Annapolis (where I wanted to be a submarine captain) were kabosh'd by my mother ("I'm only going to lose ONE son to the damn military"). So I backed out. And that was many many years ago now. At this point, I'm too old to go, and I have a bad heart. However, one of my 3 nieces just left the Navy after a 6 year stint on the USS Reagan.

[eleny]

16. I meant no snark. I'm dead serious

You're tired? Well, so am I. Tired of armchair chickenhawks.

And how dare you call people who disagree with Obama "whiners". Who the fuck do you think you are anyway?

Welcome to my Ignore List otherwise known as Chickenhawk Central. Lots of bloodthirsty freaks there for you to rub elbows with. Yeah, I can name call, too. Deal with it.

[lapfog_1]

17. Again, you completely and intentionally miss the point.

I am NOT in favor of the surge.

I am NOT in favor of the status quo.

I am NOT in favor of immediate withdrawal.

I haven't yet heard the plan that I'm in favor of.

So no, I'm not a chickenhawk.

The President didn't say that he was going to "end the war" in 18 months. To say otherwise is a lie.

And it is a CRAPPY thing to say someone is "bloodthirsty" who just wants all sides to be honest in the debate.

And to suggest that I need to go sign up or I'm a chickenhawk is personally insulting.

I WAS signed up for a full 20 year career until my brother was killed. so fuck you and your attitude.

[EFerrari]

15. Is insurgency even the right word? It's about seven different turf wars

not an insurgency. And a modern military is useless against that

Maybe the Afghans should be training us.

[eridani]

22. They could try. Don't think they'd have much luck in changing

--our troops to skinny underfed endurance champs who tromp up and down mountains in thin air all day.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Yeah, good luck with that: corruption - poverty - tribal alliances.

:thumbsdown:

[kenny blankenship]

2. The Man Who Could Not Be Right

We've been training the same guys over and over. Some of them take their training and govt. issued weapons straight to the Taliban, but many of them just sell the gun for cash and come back again next year for a repeat of the training sign up bonus. About 25% stay on as Afghan soldiers for a year. It's that bad.

[LeftyMom]

3. Even that clown sees through that excuse?

Whoops, I should probably call him something else. ;) Anyhow, we've all heard this song before, so it doesn't take any great political insight to know it's horseshit.

[amerikat]

4. They prefer to fly kites for the most part.

We won't have to teach them that.

[bigtree]

6. what the president described was enlisting them in our own cause

. . . in our contrived 'war on terror' - imposed on them, the Pakistanis say.

[dysfunctional press]

21. or to secure and protect the pipeline route thru their country...

that will mostly benefit us.

[951-Riverside]

13. Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdggP7rw0mg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ThUxg1hrrU

[madinmaryland]

18. Thomas Friedman is the last person anyone should be listening to when

talking about the ME.

[Orsino]

19. We need to teach them much more than that.

Like, how not to have to shoot. Firing a weapon is only a small part of an effective warfighter's job.

[mmonk]

20. No, training has always been the bogus reason given since Vietnam.

[NNN0LHI]

24. We need to teach them to shoot their friends and relatives

Like we taught Tonto.

Don