Warning: METADU rant: My two cents about two cents

[Bonobo]

Disclaimer: I am just throwing this out there because there seems to be an awful lot of certainty out there on DU today and yet I feel nothing but uncertainty. Having said that, here goes my post.

If you will allow some oversimplification in order to make a point, one might say there are two camps here at DU.

The first camp, those with a tendency to have an overall negative view of Obama at this point, essentially say that they either know more than Obama about "what do do" or "what is right" vis a vis Afghanistan, stimulating economy, etc. OR that Obama is somehow encumbered or influenced so that he can not make a decision that is best for the country. In other words, Obama may know more, but he is ethically flawed and so is no longer working in the interests of the common American. This camp might argue that he has been subverted by interests or that he has come to the realization that making real change isn't as possible as he once naively thought.
Hidden preconceptions?: "The real "system" is invisible to us and we are helpless to change it! The game is rigged!", "Obama has been bought!" etc.


The other camp essentially says that Obama knows more than they do about "what to do" or "what is right" vis a vis Afghanistan, stimulating economy, etc and that, having judged Obama to be a good, smart, ethical person, he can be trusted to be working for the interests of Americans despite appearances. This camp probably would argue that, since they aren't in command of "all the facts" like Obama, it would be impossible to make an unequivocal judgment about his decisions on ultra complex geo-political or economic matters. Although they might not agree with his decisions, they may try to (irrationally?) defend them anyway.
Hidden preconceptions?: "I trust Obama! He seems to be a good person and that's enough!", "Obama is playing 3d chess!" etc.

Now, if you will accept that both such camps roughly exist, perhaps the next step is to examine what those underlying preconceptions are based upon in our own minds...What evidence do we have for them? From there, who knows?

[Hekate]

1. KnR for offering an opportunity for intelligent discourse & exchange of ideas around here...

... which would be a nice change. :hi:

Hekate

PS: Good luck with that.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. +1 and K&R and, yes, good luck!

:hi:

On edit: I am fascinated with what's going on at DU right now. I sincerely would like to find some common ground in order to be able to move forward and continue learning and interacting here. DU is a great place to get information, new ideas, differing opinions (duh!), etc.

This is much more intense than the primaries, IMHO. People are pissed and frustrated and afraid, and I get that. I've been there myself but am trying to look at things differently and try to figure out ways to come together with others to perhaps find innovative ways of making changes on our own.

I hope we can do that at DU soon.

[lxlxlxl]

3. best post ive read in a while...not sure what the next step is.

but ill go to another board...#2

[OneGrassRoot]

4. I knew this thread would go nowhere....

What a pity.

DU is full of people saying why they hate this, that and the other, or support this or that.

IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO CHANGE THINGS as it pertains to the war?

I really value DU, but when it devolves into pure bitching and moaning without any attempt to PROGRESS beyond that and DO SOMETHING, or at least TRY to...that's when it becomes a cesspool, IMHO. Just ripping one another to shreds because everyone is angry and afraid and don't know WHAT ELSE TO DO.

Any suggestions as to WHAT WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION, even if it seems impossible or minuscule in the scheme of things?

[Atticus]

5. WARNING! Engaging with people like Bonobo requires actual thought! K&R nt

[tandot]

6. I don't think people who think they are absolutely right will bother looking at their underlying

preconceptions.

Good try, though. However, I see it has already been unrecommended quite a bit. I guess it is easier to scream at each other than to engage in a rational discussion.