Chinese-Made Turbines to Fill U.S. Wind Farm

[lib2DaBone]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125683832677216475.html

Chinese wind-turbine company, with financing help from Beijing, has struck a deal to be the exclusive supplier to one of the largest wind-farm developments in the U.S., a sign of how Chinese firms are aggressively capitalizing on America's clean-energy push.

"This is just the beginning," said Lu Jinxiang, chief executive of A-Power Energy Generation Systems Ltd., which controls Shenyang Power. He said the U.S. "is an ideal target" as it seeks to shift to renewable energy from fossil fuels.

The West Texas project exclusively would use 2.5-megawatt turbines made at Shenyang's turbine-manufacturing facility. The Texas project would soak up more than half of Shenyang's current annual production of 1,125 megawatts of turbine capacity.

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I guess there is no need for jobs in America? Also, many of the bridge repair projects under TARP are using Chinese steel and parts. Business as usual in Washington.

[taught_me_patience]

1. Did we really think windmills were going to be manufactured here?

The main reason "green jobs" is a joke and delusion.

[Rosie1223]

4. Siemens builds wind turbines in Ft Madison Iowa

http://www.businessrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=8&ArticleID=6206

[tridim]

8. GM could easily build turbines.

They even have the extra factory space.

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. Can you elaborate on this?

How do you figure "GM could easily build turbines" when that is not their primary business?

Even if they have the extra factory space, if the space looks like this;


Do you understand what it would take to turn that into a viable plant that turns out wind turbines?

If General Motors thought the wind turbine business was something they should get into, don't you think they would be in it already?

[HillbillyBob]

16. GM owns the Delco brand does it not?

Delco makes the electrical parts. I mean the alternators that go into cars and trucks are the very same as the alternators that are used for small wind turbines. Same voltage and several amperage sizes.
My Dodge Dakota has a 190 amp 12volt alternator( i don't know the rpms off hand) if I wanted to I could build my own small wind generator, unfortunately wind is not stable enough here, we get strong winds with storms, and a nice breeze at sunrise and sunset. It would be the shell and the propeller I could not produce.
So any of the auto parts makers could produce alternator based small turbines.

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. The shell and the blades are what is most important.

When talk of these windfarms occurs, it isn't talk with regard to something akin to a small, old fashioned farm windmill like this;


The issue centers around devices ten times that size, like this;



One blade of which looks like this;

http://www.theyeagergroup.com/Four%20Corners%20to%20Liberal%202007/Turbine%20Blade%20at%20the%20Weatherford%20Wind%20Energy%20Center%20at%20Weatherford,%20Oklahoma%202.JPG

It isn't such a simple thing to go from assembling automobiles to manufacturing blades and housings that often require expensive, massive autoclaves and other equipment that is never used in the building of cars.

Your post reminds me of another DU'r who once suggested that the people building warships should be retrained to "help our elderly".

Yeah. Sure. In your dreams.
You can't, no matter how hard you try, make an apple out of an orange.

[tridim]

31. Yes, but this post was about turbines, not blades.

GM could build the guts right now.

That said, I bet there are several large autoclaves in America that aren't currently being used (think yachts). The rest of the process is just carbon fiber, resin and hardware.

Have some faith man!

[HillbillyBob]

41. Just gotta love you folks that think you are sooo smart

I do realise the difference in scale, But As a retired electrician with a degree in electronics all the difference is in scale not kind. so take your apples and oranges......

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. Actually, no, they don't. (apologies for the second post)

General Motors does not own the Delco brand.

Delphi Automotive does.

Delphi was formed out of what was once Delco and several other GM subsidiaries and is an independent company.

[taught_me_patience]

13. This is not GM's core competency

There is no way they could compete in this industry.

[tridim]

18. They build transmissions and alternators.

That's what a turbine is.

[JVS]

30. GM used to make goddamned refrigerators and compete in that industry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigidaire

[kristopher]

15. Don't blame Obama he hasn't been fighting against climate action for 30 year

While the fucking Republicans have been denying climate action in order to ensure the continued dominance of fossil fuels and nuclear energy in the US, the rest of the world has been moving in the obvious direction required to do something about the problem. When our FUCKING REPUBLICAN SENATE BLOCKED ratification of KYOTO they ensured we would suck hind tit in the build up of a green manufacturing industry.

What a focus on renewable energy DOES do is to start us moving in the right direction while we are, if not on the ground floor, at least still near the ground floor. It takes YEARS to develop and gather the proprietary technology to build turbines, and anyone that expects a program passed less than a year ago to result in an instant manufacturing base is either an idiot or someone just trying to stir up shit against the Obama administration.

We do have a few manufacturers here - GE and Clipper come to mind - but their entire capacity is sold out for years to come.

These turbines have to be installed and maintained, and the claim of jobs is based on the fact that we need hundreds of thousands of them. What we'll get in the way of jobs is best understood by realizing that for every watt of electricity produced wind uses no fuel BUT it does require substantially more LOCAL LABOR than centrally generated electricity.

Also as far as the Obama emphasis on IMMEDIATE green jobs goes, he has promised very few in the area of energy generation because he knows the conditions I just laid out for you. But he also knows that making our homes, offices and industrial buildings more energy efficient is something that can be done right now that will provide a very large number of jobs AND immediate carbon and energy reduction benefits.

If you want a green job right now go to your local community college and ask about how you can get certified to evaluate and retrofit buildings to make them more energy efficient.

[taught_me_patience]

23. I'm not blaming Obama

I'm blaming ourselves for unrealistic expectations for green job creation.

[kristopher]

27. Sure as hell sounds like you are.

You DID write: "The main reason "green jobs" is a joke and delusion" didn't you?

That is direct criticism of Obama's green jobs emphasis isn't it?

You DID relate it to a problem that it ISN'T related to (Repuke caused lack of manufacturing infrastructure) didn't you?

How in the world is that "blaming ourselves for unrealistic expectations? That is using bullshit to bash the administration.

[HillbillyBob]

25. Unlike repukes.

My partner and I are doing something about climate change ourselves.
We bought a 13yr old modular home that had been abandoned by the previous owners. They walked away, it is large (2100sq ft) is and energy pig.

We started with buying energy star appliances as the original used ones we bought when we moved in die off. We brought all of our CFLs from the last place we were renting, and as they die off, we replace with LEDs.
I have double wrapped the elect water heater and added panel insulation.
Found air leaks and plugged them, low flow faucets and shower heads.
We have a solar water heater and solar furnace planned.
We put in insulated curtain liners 20/25$ per window as well as put up double blinds creating 3 air spaces between window and room. Open them on sunny winter days and let the sun heat the house. We have cut our fuel from 4 5 gallons a day to about 1 gallon.

In all we have knocked down our carbon foot print from 12 tons to less than 3. We have cut our power use from 3000 Killo Watt Hours to 1000 or from over 400$ a month to 140$, and we are not sitting in the dark and quiet. In fact we are more comfortable now. We plan to continue with replacing appliances and lights. Start a rain catchment system and gray water system to make better use of water, we are starting to plant food trees and vines and organic gardens using plants to ward off pests. 4 O'Clock flower plants attract and kill japanese beetles which took our black berry and peach crops, as a for instance. We did spend gasoline to run the tiller, but no fossile fuel pesticides or fertilizers. Just grass clippings, ashes from the burned brush pile and the fire place, and shredded junk mail(the soil is alkaline paper is acid) food compost.

We plan to be close to fossil fuel free in 10 years or less..and we are not wealthy. I am disabled and partner has an ok job, does not play like programming used to so we had to figure out a way to retire here on SS. Not paying an electric bill is one of those things.

[kristopher]

29. All good examples of what needs to be done right now. Thanks.

That thanks is for the effort and for sharing.

[Bettie]

17. Clipper Wind: Cedar Rapids, IA

My DH was offered a job there. Unfortunately, they wanted to pay him half of what he's making now.

The reason they decided to set up in Iowa was because wages are low here.

[bullwinkle428]

28. Acciona in West Branch, Iowa was very busy, cranking out

wind turbines (right down the road from me)! Until the recession took hold, and they had to lay workers off because FUCKING BANKS REFUSED TO GIVE THEM CREDIT!!!

Yes, the very same banks that we the people bailed out with countless billions! :banghead:

http://www.acciona-na.com/About-Us/Our-Projects/U-S-/West-Branch-Wind-Turbine-Generator-Assembly-Plant.aspx

[JonQ]

2. I wonder how many jobs the stimulus has created or saved

in china?

And how many more will be created or saved by the interest paid on chinese owned debts in the next few, decades, centuries, however long until this pyramid scheme runs its course?

[Kansas Wyatt]

3. So much for 'HOPE' & 'CHANGE' on the way.

The American Worker gets bent over and fucked again, and Washington doesn't give a rat's ass, because they all got their job prospects and board seats lined up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. +1 nt

[OhioChick]

14. +2 n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Is that an American made computer you're complaining about Obama on?

[Deja Q]

35. Hardware? Only if the CPU, made by Intel, came from the US... (the 32nm plant was recently built)

The operating system and software could be American-made? Except for Windows, of which Vista and Win7 have had a lot of H1B labor applied to it. (unless Microsoft is bringing in and asking for tons more H1B people to man their sales desks, of course, since Americans don't know how to sell anything either... )

[Kansas Wyatt]

40. The U.S. Government has determined that it is Corporate America's...

Responsibility to decide if any products that I can buy at the store are American Made.

Please list the American Made computer components and software, without in-sourced labor, and I will let you know if I have them.

I guess my labor union PAC contributions didn't go very far with today's Democrats. 'Hopefully' it will go further toward real 'change' next time.

[Brickbat]

5. Reason No. 1 I didn't believe in the whole "green jobs will save the American worker!" blah-blah.

No one has told me how those jobs can't be outsourced. And look! They have been! SSDD.

[Deep13]

7. .

:banghead:

[NightWatcher]

9. fuck windmills lets build tanks

yeah, that's the shit

(ok so it's really a M MRAP)
My bro works for the contractor in S Carolina who's making a ton by peddling war

[Buzz Clik]

12. Having trouble focusing on the topic at hand?

God knows there are no shortage of threads on which you can spew.

[Buzz Clik]

10. We have three massive windfarms within 20 miles of my home.

None of the turbines are Chinese, but only one is of US manufacture.

[pampango]

19. I hadn't read that Chinese steel was being used in stimulus projects. Where did you read that?

I had read that even Canadian steel wasn't allowed, except on federal projects. The Canadian government was mad because state and local governments, which do most of the road construction and repair, don't have to follow international agreements we have with 50-some countries (not including China) that allow each to bid on federal projects in the other countries.

[frebrd]

20. Next we'll be hearing about.......

Chinese-made windmills that are flying apart and killing people or (worse yet :sarcasm:) destroying valuable property!

[Deja Q]

37. I'm sure I obliged...

And if the track record is broken, so much the better. This is an issue everybody should take seriously, with time and care and quality.

[Rosco T.]

24. That's right, lets do nothing until a company here gears up and makes them...

.. keep them coal power plants belching out.

[Pavulon]

26. US Made Reactors fill Chinese plants..HMM

wonder which pays more. Fixing a windmill or working at a nuclear power plant.

[sudopod]

32. Old news is old.

If I remember correctly, A-Power is partnering with an American company to build a plant to manufacture the parts here.

I'm I'm wrong, please feel free to let me have it. ^_^

[Deja Q]

34. Wasn't Obama saying that our economic rise would be in the form of green projects?

Manufacturing this stuff?

Assuming these wind turbines don't turn into giant saw blades, fly off the pylons, and slice'n'dice people into two, I'm not entirely against it all. Green energy is better... but President Obama needs to be held accountable. (Good move by the Chinese to undercut him, since all of this is just a political game to begin with. Why else do people not have faith in the system?)

[dysfunctional press]

39. did he specifically say that the wind turbines would all be built here?

it's not the only way to put people to work on green projects.
i can't believe that anyone would actually think that 100% of it all would be manufactured in the u.s.

[seabeckind]

36. So why can't they be made here?

I'm sure that this chinese plant wasn't there 10 years ago, or if it was, it didn't make windmills. If they didn't have the expertise, they hired it. Earlier in this thread someone sarcastically said that maybe we should wait for a company here to make them.

No! I think a company here, like GM or Chrysler, should be told to make them using one of our taxpayer-owned plants. We should be doing what other countries do to us. They don't have tariffs to prevent imports, they have rules and regulations. "Sorry, that particular part doesn't meet our standards -- I don't care how cheap it is or where their headquarters is." All that matters is where it is produced."

Sitting back and waiting for "our" companies to do something for the country isn't working. It is time for our country to start telling the corporations to start doing something for our country rather than just making dividends for their shareholders.

There's more to national security and national interests than war. Eminent domain needs to be used more against companies rather than people.

How about some decisive, dynamic leadership from our toady government? When I was a teenager my president said we were going to the moon. And then we did. And we sure as hell didn't wait to get the parts from china.

[blogslut]

38. Texas is home to over 40 wind farm projects

In fact, Texas is the #1 producer of wind energy in the United States. The Roscoe ind Farm is the largest in the world, producing 781.5 MW of power with turbines from Mitsubishi, Siemens AG & GE. Our second largest, Horse Hollow Wind Energy Center, puts out 735 MW using 291 turbines made by GE and 130 manufactured by Siemens:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Texas#Large_wind_farms