Frank Schaeffer: What unites all the Reconstructionists from Erik Prince to Sarah Palin & Huckabee

[Shallah Kali]

http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com/2009/12/will-rick-warren-go-to-hanging-killing.html


Erik Prince grew up with powerful leaders in the Christian Right. Prince quit a White House internship with George H.W. Bush. He said Bush was too secular. As a converted Catholic Prince joined the Knights of Columbus. Today Prince sees himself as a Christian crusader, an armed one with a private army. Blackwater’s criminal torture of U.S. war prisoners has been documented so has employee intimidation, threats of violence. Prince sees his call to rid the world of Islam and make way for Christian hegemony.

snip

Rushdoony who Prince, Huckabee and others follow said the Bible must replace civil laws and constitutions with the Old and New Testaments, including the revival of the death penalty for homosexuality, incest, adultery, losing virginity before marriage and apostasy. Rushdoony once told me: “Democracy is a heresy.”

snip

Huckabee gave his friendship to Bill Gothard, who runs an outfit called the Institute In Basic Life Principles is also instructive. Gothard teaches that “character choices” result in societal “ills” : "homosexuality, divorce, contraception, crime."

Gothard runs “training institutes” that teach that families must be ruled by his Reconstructionist beliefs. Hundreds of thousands of American (mostly home schooled) children have been raised according to his ideas. He forbids dancing, dating, rock music and “wrong clothes.” Wives must submit to their husbands. Adults must submit to their fathers, and there must be no birth control.

snip

The ideological link between the members of the Family on C-Street to the Ugandan fascists wanting to kill gays can be best summed up by looking at several quotes from RJ Rushdoony:

“The Bible is without reservation in its condemnation of homosexuality . . . If a man also lie with mankind . . . they shall be put to death. (Lev. 20:13) . . . This is certainly clear enough and there is not a single text in all of the New Testament to indicate that this penalty has been altered or removed. . . (pp 422-25). . . We find that St. Paul far from setting aside the law and its penalties appeals to the death penalty against homosexuals as an established and continuing fact.” (Rom 1:32) (p735) {R.J. Rushdoony, The Institutes of Biblical Law}

Much more at the link: http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com/2009/12/will-rick-warren-go-to-hanging-killing.html

Learn more about the far right religious groups like Christian Reconstructionists at Theocracy Watch: http://www.theocracywatch.org/

Talk2action http://www.talk2action.org/ , Right Wing watch http://www.rightwingwatch.org/ & God's Own Party http://www.godsownparty.com/blog are also useful sources of right wing religious news and commentary imo.

[kestrel91316]

1. I've been screaming about these people for YEARS. We ignore or underestimate

them at their own peril. THEY MEAN WHAT THEY SAY. They have every intention of killing gays and anyone else who doesn't obey Old Testament laws.

[dgibby]

20. Most dangerous people in America,imo.

They scare the shit out of me, and I've been screaming about them for years, too. The problem is that they're octupus-like in their reach and networking. Lots of loose associations, hard to track.

[kestrel91316]

27. They have a barely-concealed plan to overthrow our elected government

a la The Handmaid's Tale - I can just about guarantee you. That thing is theif fricking playbook.

[dgibby]

29. Yep!

That's why all their "missionary work" with the military, police, and fire depts worries me so much.

[kestrel91316]

34. I believe they have planted large numbers of christofascist traitors

inside the military, particularly the USAF. I have my concerns of late with the Secret Service, too.

[dgibby]

36. You are 100% correct.

I can't remember the name of the guy who took on the AF for it's religious bigotry, but I do admire him.

[loyalkydem]

2. Frank

Schaeffer is one of the few Republicans that I can admire and carry on a conversation with and I can't believe I just said that.

[fascisthunter]

4. lol

[fascisthunter]

3. these people are the "pure evil" they preach about

when you seek out to kill people or harm them because they are different, there is something wrong with you, not them.

[BolivarianHero]

5. These "people" deserve to be executed for treason...

We must eliminate them before their crusade leads to the elimination of the oppressed and the marginalized.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. "said the Bible must replace civil laws and constitutions"

I can't think of anything more horrifying (except Sharia Law).

These people are the enemy.

THE enemy. No others can hold a candle to them.

[spanone]

7. these folks will settle for nothing less than a theocracy....imo

[Blue_In_AK]

8. The Immoral Minority had a good post last night

about Sister Sarah and her "higher calling." It's the one entitled "Is Sarah Palin leaving politics to pursue a higher calling," third or fourth story down. Clicking on the title takes you to the US News & World Report article that he's quoting.

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/

There are also some excellent comments.

[Shallah Kali]

10. Ah. Direct link - will read now

thanks. some dismiss palin as insignificant. I see her as dangerous whether she is in politics or as freelance rabble rouser on a mission from her deity.

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-sarah-palin-leaving-politics-to.html

A third party where the lines between politics and religion are blurred to form a "Christocrats" party, which can funnel evangelical candidates (and money raised directly from the pulpit) into local elections all over the country, would be just the thing to satiate their hunger for power and control. A party which could very well saturate state governments, city governments, and school boards with Warriors for Christ in just a few years.

snip

We have seen how easily it is to agitate and mobilize these people by watching it being done on Fox News by Glenn Beck. We have also seen a totally unqualified candidate, supported by Palin and her ilk, crush a Republican candidate in New York and come within a hair's breath of defeating the Democratic challenger.

The same teabaggers who were directed to vote for Doug Hoffman are just looking for a new party to lead them forward, and they already believe that Sarah Palin is God's gift (literally) to politics. It is only a hop, skip, and a jump from there to starting a new all white, all Christian, all coo-coo, third party that will gladly, and energetically, push their agenda forward on the House and Senate floors.

Sure at first they will have no power and will get laughed out of Chambers. But what happens when there are three of them, and five of them, and twenty five of them? Who will be laughing then? And we have already seen Republican politicians embracing this primitive brand of conservatism in an effort to hold onto their positions so we can definitely expect more of the same.

[Blue_In_AK]

13. Thank you for fixing that.

There's a comment a ways down under that piece that says something like "You'll thank me later for this" with a link. I'm heading there now because there was just too much info to absorb last night when I first read this.

These people have their tentacles everywhere, and I think they're really dangerous.

[Shallah Kali]

17. While a authoritarian wealthy religious group says it wants to take over my country I pay attention

Not all of these groups are in total agreement they seem willing to work together alot esp. the Family and unless we are lucky and there is lots of infighting they will continue to work together enough to continue to throw monkey wrenchs into progrss in thinks like health care reform even if they can't out and out take over and start stoning people.

[niyad]

25. is there another way to get there? clicked on the website once--and it nearly crashed my computer

[Blue_In_AK]

33. Did you try the link in post number 10?

He always loads very slow for me, but he's never crashed my computer.

[Shallah Kali]

44. try this link to the text only version via google cache

http://74.125.47.132/search?strip=1&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Ftheimmoralminority.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F12%2Fis-sarah-palin-leaving-politics-to.html

[housewolf]

9. Frank Sshaeffer is a singularly important voice speaking out today

Important for all of us to pay attention to and to respond to.

[jberryhill]

11. Bill Gothard Seminars

Oh boy...

Imagine if you will, an Evangelical version of EST.

Gothard turned a lot of good people into zombies.

[Shallah Kali]

15. a thread on Gothard from last year - link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4004754

Michael Murray, who killed people at two churches, was raised up under Gothard's methods and teachings - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/14/421737/-Matthew-Murray:-an-American-tragedy

The Nightmare of Christianity
By Max Blumenthal
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090921/blumenthal/single

[FarLeftRage]

12. rushdoony is loony

And all his asshole followers should be permanently institutionalized for their dangerously daft ideas...

[Odin2005]

14. These anti-American lunatics need to be annihilated.

[gordianot]

16. What amazes me is how easily some Roman Catholics merge with the Fundamentalist Right.

A few years ago some Fundamentalist (I know a few personally) openly condemned the Roman Catholic Church in all it forms and manifestations as something to be destroyed. Today it appears some Roman Catholics are allied in the same cause establishment of a theocracy. If a theocracy is ever firmly established by these people my prediction is they would quickly be at each others throats. They want nothing short of a State Religion.

[FarLeftRage]

19. Yeah, those folks are either too reich-wing or profoundly ignorant...

As a Far Left Roman Catholic, I have often condemned the notion of a theocracy for these narrow-minded modern day pharisees.

[Shallah Kali]

21. Oh yes if they ever succeded they would turn on each other really quick

Unfortunatly right now they are doing more cooperating for the sake of things like banning equal marriage rights than denouncing one another as not being the True Christians like themselves :(

[mitchum]

24. And that's another reason to hate the late William F Buckley...

he was instrumental in making catholicism palatable to the protestant fundies and far right

[FiveGoodMen]

28. It's like the US and the USSR teaming up to fight Hitler

They weren't friends, but they feared/hated the Nazis more.

Same thing here. They'll team up to rid the world of Muslims, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.

Then, when we're all gone, they'll go after each other.

Fundies are the worst goddamned thing on planet earth.

All of them.

ALL. OF. THEM.

[gordianot]

31. Agreed

[eridani]

39. The fundies STILL don't think that Catholics are really Christian

Just goes to show that politics are more important than actual faith here.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Mr Schaeffer is a voice that must be heard

And I am very glad he is speaking out clearly and without hesitation against these dangerous people.

[dgibby]

22. I hope for his sake,

that Frank has a good security system. These people are evil and dangerous, and I believe anyone who speaks out against them is taking a very big risk. Frank and Jeff Sharlett should both be watching their backs, as I'm sure they've piss this bunch of zealots off big time.

[dgibby]

23. Thanks for the links.

I've added them to my ever growing cache. I've been following these folks for years. Evil personified.

[niyad]

26. I have stated for many years now that the religious fundies worry me far more than any foreign

terrorists, and have been harshly criticized for saying so. but, living down the road from some of the worst (fungus, new life, summit, etc.) will do that to a person.

[dgibby]

30. I've said the same thing, but haven't been flamed for it yet.

There is NO reasoning with them. They are every bit as irrational as the Taliban, maybe worse, and definitely more of a threat to the US because, unlike the Taliban, they are here, running just below the radar. In addition, they are written off as being the fundie fringe, but we do that at our own peril. We always made fun of Dubya, calling him stupid, etc, but look at what he did to the country. Almost decimated the Constitution, and we still don't have our rights restored.

[Shallah Kali]

32. How can they be fringe when they have so many Family members in congress

as well as folks like slit your wrists and make a pact woman Michelle Bachmann? Their actuall numbers might be a fraction of self-identified Christians in America but the power these groups wield is all out of proportion to their actual numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29#List_of_prominent_Family_members

List of prominent Family members

This is a partial member list focusing on well-known and influential members of the Family.
Members currently in the US Congress
Name Position Notoriety
Sam Brownback<1><81> Sen. (R-KS) Chair of Senate Values Action Team
James Inhofe<1><81> Sen. (R-OK)
Jim DeMint<1><81> Sen. (R-SC) Chairman of Steering Committee
Chuck Grassley<81> Sen. (R-IA) Former Chairman of Finance Committee
Richard Lugar<4> Sen. (R-IN) Former Chairman, Foreign Relations Committee
John Ensign<1><81><82> Sen. (R-NV) Involved in sex scandal
Tom Coburn<1><81> Sen. (R-OK) Acted as go between for Sen.Ensign and his mistress and her family.
Mark Pryor<1><81> Sen. (D-AR)
Bill Nelson<1><81> Sen. (D-FL)
John Thune<81> Sen. (R-SD)
Mike Enzi<81> Sen. (R-WY)
Joe Pitts<1><81><82> Rep. (R-PA) Chair of House Values Action Team; Member Committees on Energy & Commerce, Sec. & Coop in Europe
Todd Tiahrt<83> Rep. (R-KS)
Frank Wolf<24> Rep. (R-VA) Member of House Appropriations Panel<1>
Zach Wamp<1><24> Rep. (R-TN)
Mike McIntyre<24> Rep.(D-NC)
Bart Stupak<1><82> Rep. (D-MI) Author of the Stupak-Pitts Amendment for the Affordable Health Care for America Act that would ban federal funding for abortions.<84>
Michael F. Doyle<1> Rep. (D-PA)
Heath Shuler<1> Rep.(D-NC)
Jerry Moran<1> Rep. (R-KS)

Members currently serving as state governors
Name Position Notoriety
Mark Sanford<69> Gov. (R-SC) Involved in sex scandal

Current Family members formerly serving in the executive branch
Name Position Notoriety
John Ashcroft<85> Attorney General AG under G.W. Bush; Also Sen. (R-MO), Member CNP
Dan Quayle<86> Vice President Also former Sen. (R-IN)
James Baker<4> Secretary of State Served under G.H.W. Bush
Robert "Bud" McFarlane<87> National Security Adviser Iran-Contra conspirator; served under Reagan
Ed Meese<88> Attorney General Served under Reagan; also Member CNP
Charles Colson<89> Special Counsel Watergate conspirator; served under Nixon; joined the Fellowship after leaving executive branch; served time in prison
Melvin Laird<24> Secretary of Defense Persuaded Ford to pardon Nixon<24>

Current Family members formerly in the US Congress
Name Position Notoriety
Don Nickles<33> Sen. (R-OK) Also Member Council for National Policy
Mark Hatfield<4> Sen. (R-OR) Chairman of Appropriations Committee
Pete Domenici<81> Sen. (R-NM)
Dan Coats<85> Sen. (R-IN) Promoted Faith-Based Initiatives
Chip Pickering<69> Rep. (R-MS) Involved in sex scandal
Tony P. Hall<90> Rep. (D-OH) Also UN ambassador for hunger issues under G.W. Bush
Current Family members formerly in the US military
Name Rank Notoriety
John W. Vessey<4> Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
David C. Jones<91> Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Also member Council on Foreign Relations

[DireStrike]

35. Oh shit, I never knew he was one of THOSE

NOW he is a truly scary motherfucker.

[juno jones]

37. K&R! A few more of Bruce Wison's articles on tne subject:

Rick Warren's African Allies Accused of Sex-Slavery, Massacres, Slave-Labor
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/1/19/203428/595

Video: Christian Martyr Movement Head Blesses Gingrich and Huckabee
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/7/15210/73975

The June 5, 2009, Rock Church event has received some media notice but coverage, which has noted Newt Gingrich declared Americans are "surrounded by paganism", and that he and Mike Huckabee made stump speeches calling for Christian conservatives to become more involved in electoral politics, has almost wholly missed the significance.

Leaders on the Christian right have been giving such speeches for decades, but the two-day Rock Church conference was not business as usual. Rather, it showcased the rapid reconfiguration of the Christian right around the rising, highly militant but poorly understood charismatic wing of the new Christian right, a movement which includes both Ted Haggard and Sarah Palin.)

One point of the spear for the new Christian right is an intense, raspy-voiced man who presided over the June 5, 2009 Rock Church event, layed hands on Mike Huckabee , and pledged the commitment of his prayer warriors to Huckabee and Gingrich was Lou Engle, founder of TheCall - which played a significant role in the push to pass the anti-gay marriage Proposition Eight in the lead up to the November 4, 2008 presidential election.

The diaries compiled last year on daily kos by troutfishing and dogempror are excellent primary source troves for those who wish to understand what is going on.

[Shallah Kali]

38. kick

for the late night crowd...

[Starry Messenger]

40. Good links, thank you.

Ilsa Prince, Erik's mother was the 4th largest donor to Prop 8:

n August, Elsa Prince made two donations that totaled $450,000 to Proposition 8, the California initiative that narrowly passed on Nov. 4, and will amend the state constitution to revoke the right of gay people to marry, if it is not overturned by the California Supreme Court.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/17/elsa-prince-blackwater-matriarch-prop-8-donor/

She was the founder of Focus on the Family.

People who say we don't have the Taliban here have their head in the sand.

[Shallah Kali]

41. one last kick

:kick:

[RedEarth]

42. Really like Frank Schaeffer.... thanks for posting

[SharonAnn]

43. What about the Catholic "Relevant Radio" talk show. They sound similar.

My sister (life-long Catholic) recently divorced her husband of 27 years because eof the attitudes he developed while listening to "Relevant Radio" on his commute to work. After several years of this, along with Catholic marriage counseling, she finally realized that she had to get out (along with the three youngest who were still at home).

He became fixated on his wife and children being submissive and yelling at them that they had to respect him because he was head of the family. He would walk in the door and start yelling with 15 minutes. He called his children names all the time. "You imbecile, you a--hole, you damned loser", etc.

It took her a while to realize that she had to leave, but he would not even consider modifying his behavior. And he's a relatively young man, 53 years old.

Of course, I think he's always been a jerk and couldn't stand to be around him, but he finally became impossible for her and the children to live with.